Ulster vs Saracens - HC quarter final - Saturday, 5th April 6:30pm

First topic message reminder :

Ulster vs Saracens.

Saturday 5th April at 6:30pm

First game at a newly renovated Ravenhill I believe with a new capacity of 18,000.

Ulster are currently 3rd in the Pro12 and won all their pool stages in the HC, including impressive away wins vs Leicester and Montpellier.

They have a few Irish players who were involved in the title winning 6 nations like Best and Trimble. Trimble in particular had a very good tournament.

Close to full strength in terms of their squad.

According to Ulster fans their current form hasn't been great but I take that firmly with a pinch of salt. Their latest result - a loss to Cardiff could shake any sense of complacency.


Saracens are currently the league leaders in the AP with a healthy 7 point gap off 2nd placed Saints. Just 2 losses in the AP in 18 matches which contrasts with their two losses in the pool stages of the HC. Saracens are currently the top try scorers in the AP and were top try scorers in the HC pool stages. Form wise Saracens have been comfortable without really putting in a notable performance.

Notable clashes

Best vs Brits - the Irish hooker vs the flamboyant South African who plays more like a centre - will be key in getting their teams into good positions.

Muller vs Borthwick - skipper vs skipper - both will be key in inspiring their sides.

Jackson vs Farrell - the 2nd choice Irish 10 vs the current England 10 - both will be expected to boss the game and take any opportunities and points on offer



Ulster team

15. J Payne
14. A Trimble
13. D Cave
12. L Marshall
11.T Bowe
10. P Jackson
9. R Pienaar

1. T Court
2.R Best
3. J Afoa
4.J Muller (C)
5.D Tuohy
6.R Wilson
7.N Williams
8.C Henry

16. R Herring
17.A Warwick
18.R Lutton
19.I Henderson
20.S Ferris
21.R Diack
22.P Marshall
23.C Gilroy






Saracens team



15. Alex Goode
14. Chris Ashton
13. Duncan Taylor
12. Brad Barritt
11. David Strettle
10. Owen Farrell
9. Richard Wigglesworth

1. Mako Vunipola
2. Schalk Brits
3. James Johnston
4. Steve Borthwick ©
5. Mouritz Botha
6. Billy Vunipola
7. Jacques Burger
8. Ernst Joubert

16. Jamie George
17. Richard Barrington
18. Matt Stevens
19. Eoin Sheriff
20. Kelly Brown
21. Neil de Kock
22. Charlie Hodgson
23. Chris Wyles


Thoughts?

I know munkian that was definitely a kiss of death. It's also inaccurate.

I said to whoever was listening that Farrell is a confidence kicker. If he nails his first kick he's likely to kick everything. Miss and he his confidence could drop. It panned out like that.

Against Wales for example he missed nothing, he got in the groove and rhythm.

He does occasionally have a stinker with the boot - not often but it can happen. Probably the worst kicking this season but I have seen some poor ones from him in the past.

I expect him to be much more comfortable at Twickenham. A ground he should know well by now and has some notable successes on - certainly with the boot too.

Chunky think you're being a bit harsh on Ulster. They are just a bit gutted they lost. Understandable in the circumstances.

As for it being a good game - not in my opinion.

beshocked wrote:I don't blame the crowd for booing. They were annoyed and voiced their anger.

Disappointed with Farrell's composure on the day. Must do much better than that!

You might not like Ashton but yet again he finds his way to the try line. 3 tries vs Ulster in 2 games. You would be well within your rights to say Ashton was disrespectful.

Personally I am pleased when he does the Ash splash because it means he has scored a try! It gives him confidence, it's hugely important for a player to be confident. I genuinely don't think Ashton does it to be disrespectful - I think he does it as a celebration of his joy at scoring a try. That's my opinion anyway.

When it's your own player doing the celebration it's different to opposition doing a celebration vs you.
Deliberate knock down is normally a YC but I don't think the ref was going to do that with the crowd already on his back!

If it weren't for Brits,Billy and Ashton, Sarries would have lost. We were lucky - it's important we make the most of it.

Beshocked I hate it when one of our own players does any kind of celebration e.g. Tom Court's shhhhhh thing and Jared Payne seemingly riding an invisible pony. I dislike it because it shows disrespect to your opposition and it's simply not rugby union. I know I may be an old fashioned kind of man but it's the mutual respect that maintains the comeradary within the rugby union universe. Start chipping away at the roots of respect and the whole damn tree might topple.

P.S. I don't think Farrell lost his cool because of the atmosphere, I just think he had a rare off day with the boot. He's a cub after all and a more promising and talented one I can't think of.

Chunky Norwich wrote:Good game. Saracens worthy winners. Glad that's Ulster gone. Their fans are a disgrace.

Crawl back into your little welsh hole - you are a disgrace to this board and a total tube

 

quinsforever wrote:have no problem with people booing ashton. am sure he loves it. he doesnt reserve the swan dive only for ravenhil - thats the first time he's played there!

but i really dont like kickers being booed.

but, i understand the crowd were probably a bit upset after payne going off. so all in all, no complaints. Ulster needed the crowd to become their 15th man, and they almost did it.

Quins I know we dont agree on the European Cup thing but I read some kind words from you elsewhere appreciated.
Inspite of difference I recognise you are a true fan of the game

Beshocked I found the Saracens fans a funny bunch.

Fairly quiet and almost apologetic.

They need to be more demontrative - outwardly lack the passion of Leicester, Saints or Glaws for example.
No doubt it matters to them inside

Pete do you feel the same way about booing the opposition though? I just feel like you can criticise practically anything if you look that hard.

Shane Williams did try celebrations but was never derided for it.

Depends how you interpret the celebration. You could interpret it as joy that a player has scored important points. Where do you draw the line? Is a sign like when Farrell kicks a successful penalty acceptable?

I feel that Ashton is showing his passion for the game and team. Of course it could be interpreted as disrespectful but so can booing and mexican waves for example.

You could also argue that by Ashton doing the swallow dive he makes it harder for the kicker - a punishment in itself. Also there is the danger he might drop it - it's a risk that he takes.

geoff998rugby wrote:Beshocked I found the Saracens fans a funny bunch.

Fairly quiet and almost apologetic.

They need to be more demontrative - outwardly lack the passion of Leicester, Saints or Glaws for example.
No doubt it matters to them inside

Geoff fair comment and accurate I would say. I generally comment that the Sarries fans are like church mice. Sometimes it gets embarrassing how quiet some of the fans are at games. Especially if I shout loud and there's just silence. More so like that at Wembley. It's one of our fans' fault and would be a fair criticism.

Sometimes one can be too passionate. I would say I fit that description on too many occasions. Must be a balance.

Many Sarries fans are too quiet - I am certainly not one of them - I think that's obvious.

Apologetic is fair though. I thought it was pretty embarrassing performance against 14 men though lots of credit for Ulster for the fight they show.

geoff998rugby wrote:Beshocked I found the Saracens fans a funny bunch.

Fairly quiet and almost apologetic.

They need to be more demontrative - outwardly lack the passion of Leicester, Saints or Glaws for example.
No doubt it matters to them inside

Lack of automated PA system and corporate events probably confused them

Munkian to be honest they don't make the fans any louder or animated. It's why the PA system has been utilised a few times.

As for why there is a lack of passion, I can't answer that one. We do lack a good song for example. Our chants aren't particularly creative - come on saaaarrrieesss is my normal shout but it's hardly that good.

Its better than 'Come on you Bath !' which doesn't even make grammatical sense.

Mind you repetativel singing 'stand up for the Ulstermen' does have it's faults too

munkian wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:Beshocked I found the Saracens fans a funny bunch.

Fairly quiet and almost apologetic.

They need to be more demontrative - outwardly lack the passion of Leicester, Saints or Glaws for example.
No doubt it matters to them inside

Lack of automated  PA system and corporate events probably confused them

You've got to be patient. Most followers of Saracens didn't even know rugby existed before 2005, so give them time, and they'll build a boisterousness following eventually....   

munkian wrote:Its better than 'Come on you Bath !' which doesn't even make grammatical sense.

Its for the benefit of HERSH really...

Jimpy wrote:

munkian wrote:Its better than 'Come on you Bath !' which doesn't even make grammatical sense.

Its for the benefit of HERSH really...

  

beshocked wrote:Munkian to be honest they don't make the fans any louder or animated. It's why the PA system has been utilised a few times.

As for why there is a lack of passion, I can't answer that one. We do lack a good song for example. Our chants aren't particularly creative - come on saaaarrrieesss is my normal shout but it's hardly that good.

Whatever happened to the 'Stand up for the Saracens' anthem? That was good.

beshocked wrote:Munkian to be honest they don't make the fans any louder or animated. It's why the PA system has been utilised a few times.

As for why there is a lack of passion, I can't answer that one. We do lack a good song for example. Our chants aren't particularly creative - come on saaaarrrieesss is my normal shout but it's hardly that good.

[sarcasm]Do what the Ospreys did, get some music guy from Leicester to do a little ditty that can be played when the players run out and at random moments during the game. Works a treat at firing up the crowd[/sarcasm]

beshocked wrote:Munkian to be honest they don't make the fans any louder or animated. It's why the PA system has been utilised a few times.

As for why there is a lack of passion, I can't answer that one. We do lack a good song for example. Our chants aren't particularly creative - come on saaaarrrieesss is my normal shout but it's hardly that good.

Ah come on!

All there is on offer at Welford Rd, is 'Tigers, Tigers!', but the atmosphere at the ground is mental, especially from the Crumbie Stand.

We have a very boring chant, but it's the gusto behind the chant that makes it! A brilliant chant will sound terrible with one person a terrible chant will sound brilliant with 18000 people

The atmosphere at this game made me proud to be an Ulster fan. Few teams can boast the same kind of experience. Sarries were both inspired by it and slightly fazed by it I think, but I don't think with that crowd Ulster would have done what they did in the game with 14 men for 76 minutes. It demanded every player be dragged off with nothing left to give. Giving up wasn't an option; if you closed your eyes, you could imagine you were at the Colosseum in Rome. It was insane- one big part of the redevelopment was moving everything so much closer to the pitch and with the stand behind the promenade the atmosphere is almost* unrivalled for a big game now.

*I think maybe the Stade Marcel Michelin or Stade Felix Mayol might rival it, I haven't been to either. Maybe Welford Road for a similar game? I've been to a Thomond Park Heineken Cup quarter-final and while the buzz around the town totally eclipses Belfast the atmosphere in the stadium wasn't as intense as that yesterday.

Notch wrote: *I think maybe the Stade Marcel Michelin or Stade Felix Mayol might rival it, I haven't been to either. .

I'd put Stade Marcel Michelin the top of all club grounds in the world - unbelievable

Notch wrote:We have a very boring chant, but it's the gusto behind the chant that makes it! A brilliant chant will sound terrible with one person a terrible chant will sound brilliant with 18000 people

The atmosphere at this game made me proud to be an Ulster fan. Few teams can boast the same kind of experience. Sarries were both inspired by it and slightly fazed by it I think, but I don't think with that crowd Ulster would have done what they did in the game with 14 men for 76 minutes. It demanded every player be dragged off with nothing left to give. Giving up wasn't an option; if you closed your eyes, you could imagine you were at the Colosseum in Rome. It was insane- one big part of the redevelopment was moving everything so much closer to the pitch and with the stand behind the promenade the atmosphere is almost* unrivalled for a big game now.

*I think maybe the Stade Marcel Michelin or Stade Felix Mayol might rival it, I haven't been to either. Maybe Welford Road for a similar game? I've been to a Thomond Park Heineken Cup quarter-final and while the buzz around the town totally eclipses Belfast the atmosphere in the stadium wasn't as intense as that yesterday.

Notch I wouldnt judge Thomond on the experience that day. There was a real strange atmosphere that day. It was like Thomond Park knew Ulster were the up and coming team and yee had the bit between your teeth. For whatever reason there was no dog in Munster, no bitterness that you usually get. I guarantee you if you came down in QF this year you would get the full treatment   

The atmosphere at Ravenhill on sat was brilliant though and conversly I wouldnt fancy going up there needing a win.

Rodney Parade USED to be quite a fortress, especially when we had the terrace instead of the Bisley, lots of bigger teams choked there.

In fact, we were so intimidating that Ulster nicked 'Stand up for the Men of Gwent' from us   

geoff998rugby wrote: 

quinsforever wrote:have no problem with people booing ashton. am sure he loves it. he doesnt reserve the swan dive only for ravenhil - thats the first time he's played there!

but i really dont like kickers being booed.

but, i understand the crowd were probably a bit upset after payne going off. so all in all, no complaints. Ulster needed the crowd to become their 15th man, and they almost did it.

Quins I know we dont agree on the European Cup thing but I read some kind words from you elsewhere appreciated.
Inspite of difference I recognise you are a true fan of the game