Englands Summer Tour of NZ - The rugby

First topic message reminder :

NZ tour squad

England squad flying on May 27 (30)
Props
Joe Marler (Harlequins), Matt Mullan (London Wasps), Kieran Brookes (Newcastle Falcons), Henry Thomas (Sale Sharks), David Wilson (Bath Rugby)

Hookers
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs), Joe Gray (Harlequins), Dave Ward (Harlequins), Rob Webber (Bath Rugby)

Locks
Dave Attwood (Bath Rugby), Joe Launchbury (London Wasps), Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers), Ed Slater (Leicester Tigers)

Back rows
James Haskell (London Wasps), Tom Johnson (Exeter Chiefs), Matt Kvesic (Gloucester Rugby), Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins)

Scrum halves
Danny Care (Harlequins), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Fly halves
Freddie Burns (Gloucester Rugby), Danny Cipriani (Sale Sharks)

Centres
Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby), Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers), Henry Trinder (Gloucester Rugby), Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby)

Wings
Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby), Marland Yarde (London Irish)

Full backs
Mike Brown (Harlequins), Chris Pennell (Worcester Warriors)

Prem Final - 31st May (Sarries v Saints)

England v Baa Baas - 1st June

New Zealand v England (First Test)- 7th June
New Zealand v England (Second Test) - 14th June
Crusaders v England - 17th June
New Zealand v England (Third Test) - 21st June.

Chjw131 wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

6. M Garvey - has to get a chance at some point!

Oh Chjw...we all know that ship has sailed...and whilst Lancs is in charge he will never ever wear the white shirt. Maybe swap him for his club colleague Fearns

You're probably right there GF but with so many possibly unavailable surely he has to get a look in. As you say more likely Fearns or Gibson though.

Mate ive been banging the Garvey drums for a long time now...i think its criminal that he hasnt even been trialed - bar that infamous Saxons game. But i dont think he fits the "Lancaster Blueprint" (as someone else put it).

GeordieFalcon wrote:The second row stable is looking frighteningly good.

Lawes, Launchbury, Attwood - Current 3 first choicers.

Following that (at various stages of development):
Slater, Kitchener, Kruis, Barrow, Stooke, Parling, Itoje (U20's)

Plus the likes of Garvey who arent even considered.

Well quite, and it wasn't all that long ago we were looking at Botha, Palmer and Deacon and wondering where the talent was coming from. Really impressed with how some of the young forwards have stepped up to AP level. That's credit to the U20s and academy systems.

There are always a few who don't seem to hit the highlights for one reason or another. Charlie Matthews at Quins doesn't seem to have found his role yet but he has the talent.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Chjw131 wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

6. M Garvey - has to get a chance at some point!

Oh Chjw...we all know that ship has sailed...and whilst Lancs is in charge he will never ever wear the white shirt. Maybe swap him for his club colleague Fearns

You're probably right there GF but with so many possibly unavailable surely he has to get a look in. As you say more likely Fearns or Gibson though.

Mate ive been banging the Garvey drums for a long time now...i think its criminal that he hasnt even been trialed - bar that infamous Saxons game. But i dont think he fits the "Lancaster Blueprint" (as someone else put it).

I know but he has shed some weight and moved into the physical BS role that we seemed to be missing. He's different enough from the rest, his work-rate is excellent and his error count has come down hugely....i'm preaching to the converted. Apologies!

little_badger wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:The second row stable is looking frighteningly good.

Lawes, Launchbury, Attwood - Current 3 first choicers.

Following that (at various stages of development):
Slater, Kitchener, Kruis, Barrow, Stooke, Parling, Itoje (U20's)

Plus the likes of Garvey who arent even considered.

Don't jinx it!! Could it be that England are finally using their grassroots and age-group resources to good effect?? But I agree the forwards are really starting to come together with some strength in depth. We need back up THs and Flankers to follow suit and..............  

I think the RFU and the clubs deserve a huge pat on the back for this.

The RFU put up the financial incentives for the clubs to bring through more English players rather than all the hasbeen journeymen foreigners that we were seeing at all the clubs.

The clubs responded by getting their academies working..and we can all see the benefits now. Its not just in the second rows, most positions are now producing young players of huge potential...with only a few positions still to come to fruit. As you say Flankers and TH's...but they're on their way.

Chjw131 wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Chjw131 wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

6. M Garvey - has to get a chance at some point!

Oh Chjw...we all know that ship has sailed...and whilst Lancs is in charge he will never ever wear the white shirt. Maybe swap him for his club colleague Fearns

You're probably right there GF but with so many possibly unavailable surely he has to get a look in. As you say more likely Fearns or Gibson though.

Mate ive been banging the Garvey drums for a long time now...i think its criminal that he hasnt even been trialed - bar that infamous Saxons game. But i dont think he fits the "Lancaster Blueprint" (as someone else put it).

I know but he has shed some weight and moved into the physical BS role that we seemed to be missing. He's different enough from the rest, his work-rate is excellent and his error count has come down hugely....i'm preaching to the converted. Apologies!

I agree mate.

I just wonder if theres to it than just his performance. Was there a big punch up or something in the half time of that game when despite being probably MOM he never came out for the second half.

He's a player than could be great for England...huge and physical...can cover lock and 6. Like Slater i guess. I think Slater will travel to NZ....but ill still eat my hat if Garvey is chosen for the Baa Baas game.

In fact the nearest he'll get to it may be playing FOR the Baa baas.

In terms of the club & country successes over the past few years, Mike Catt also highlighted in an interview on the RFU website that Englands more attacking style has been helped by clubs playing with more ambition.

It actually seems like it might be working, cue meltdown over new club and RFU agreement.

At TH we have Collier and Synckler at Quins, Collier is a slow developer but looking quite Cole-esq, not that big around the park but a very technical scrumager. Synckler is the opposite, an utter beast around the park, good engine for a huge guy and a powerful scrummager, only had one bad game so far against Ayerza for 40 mins.

yappysnap wrote:At TH we have Collier and Synckler at Quins, Collier is a slow developer but looking quite Cole-esq, not that big around the park but a very technical scrumager. Synckler is the opposite, an utter beast around the park, good engine for a huge guy and a powerful scrummager, only had one bad game so far against Ayerza for 40 mins.

My view on watching the replay was that Ayerza began boring in in the second half (look at where his hips end up whenever the scrums go down, and fair play for getting away with it), but by the end of the game Kyle had found a way to hold up for long enough to get the ball away. Not the finished article by a long chalk but I am genuinely excited about how good he already is and how good he could be given that he is visibly learning and improving from scrum to scrum. Plus, as you say, his workrate in the loose is impressive.

Collier is less visible but a more reliable anchor in the scrum. I hope he comes back from his neck injury OK - the last we heard was 2-3 weeks ago when the club said that he and George Lowe were being sent to see a specialist. Fingers crossed for them both.

I know we're all excited about the NZ tour, and that’s regardless of the fixture fiddle fu fum - I certainly am - and that's on the back of an increasingly exciting domestic/european season end, however, as I've mentioned before, I have grave concerns regards player welfare/fatigue/exhaustion at the end of another too long season.

Therefore once the squad is eventually announced I would like to do some simple player analysis re games (dom euro int) minutes played through the season, with mention to incurred injuries/breaks as well - I am just interested in broadening the depth of the picture.

So can anyone suggest the best available stats to help me with this? Or is this going to be a drudge pen and paper exercise.....

Any advice would be appreciated...or would anyone like to check out a player or two?

I have done this in the past and willing to help again.

It is a bit of a drudge.

See the Telegraph are reporting that Lancaster was over in Toulon checking on Steffon Armitage's availability for England camps. Maybe a slight softening in the stance?

Would be good to see what types of injuries as well. I know if you're fatigued you're more likely to pick up strains, is there a link to impact injuries?

I think each player needs to be managed individually...and Lancaster and his team seem adept at doing this.

jelly wrote:See the Telegraph are reporting that Lancaster was over in Toulon checking on Steffon Armitage's availability for England camps. Maybe a slight softening in the stance?

Very interesting! He is a very good player.

Interesting though when we have Wallace, Kvesic and Will Fraser as openside options. I'd rather stick to my guns and have a look at a couple of those.

Lancaster cares more about winning RWC than anything else. Rightly. Will get him a gong if he cares about such things. Or assure his financial future for the rest of his life.

So I am not surprised he is considering how to get armitage into the squad. And personally I am pleased. Let the RFU and PRL look after the structure and development of England eligible players. Let Lancaster do everything in his power to win a home RWC.

Armitage is exceptional. And therefore Lancaster can by his own "rules" make an exception

Brought in as a squad player? As he wont replace Captain Robshaw?

Slightly better bench option than Morgan possibly. Still feel he put his club career ahead of his England prospects though.

LondonTiger wrote:I have done this in the past and willing to help again.

It is a bit of a drudge.

Ditto.

All the club websites have games played. some have minutes. A lot of match reports have the time someone was subbed. Injuries is usually a little harder to work out as a lot of teams are cagey about releasing that much information. For a limited group, in terms of the EPS/tour squad, it shouldn't be too difficult (if still a bore)

No 7&1/2 wrote:Slightly better bench option than Morgan possibly. Still feel he put his club career ahead of his England prospects though.

I cant see Lancaster not selecting Morgan on the bench or vice versa Billy if Morgans form improves and Billys drops.

He is a good player. Worth a look. But he wont replace the captain as starter. Certainly a good impact bench player...or stand in if the Captain is rested / injured.

Would he be available for the NZ tour? If not....then he'll never be in the squad again.

Apparently he played at 8 for Toulon the other day and it went very well.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Would he be available for the NZ tour? If not....then he'll never be in the squad again.

Theoretically he would be available for as much of it as the English based players - with the T14 final having been pulled forward from previous seasons.

BUT

He has been named as part of the World Squad that plays South Africa on June 7th.

As far as I can tell, Lancaster went over to confirm with the Armitage brothers that there was no bad blood and they are out of the picture because they are in France.

He also wanted to see what their availability would be for training camps should he need to call on them.

My guess is, he has no plans to call on them but if, say, his squad was disrupted by injuries or loss of form, with the World cup imminent, then he might prefer a seasoned professional over blooding someone with no real international experience.

For Steffon Amitage to be in the frame, you'd guess it would be something like Robshaw, Billy V and Morgan all out. That's not impossible since the last two have been out at the same time before.

Delon Armitage is less likely but if none of the leading  winger/full back candidates kick on, while Foden & Brown go down injured, then Lancaster might want him as emergency cover in a World Cup squad.

The question really is, if Lancaster is considering them as possible Get Out of Jail Free cards in the event current players fall like flies, does he bring them into a training camp now in case he needs them later, or does he leave them out and try to get them up to speed if required?

Well yes i can see that as a emergency back up. And i understand the logic.

However theres still the summer tour, the AI's, the 6n to give someone like Wallace, Will Fraser or Kvesic lots of exposure whilst still building momentum with the first choice Robshaw.

I imagine Lancaster might have had a similar chat with, say, Nick Easter. Can't see him calling on him except in an emergency, but I can very much see him making sure he has his options organised.

By the way, don't forget that Robshaw has also played 6 to a high level (and won AP Player of the Season playing there, back when Quins were just promoted), so several of the 7s, including Steffon, might be under consideration in case Wood or Croft are unavailable.

Poorfour wrote:I imagine Lancaster might have had a similar chat with, say, Nick Easter. Can't see him calling on him except in an emergency, but I can very much see him making sure he has his options organised.

By the way, don't forget that Robshaw has also played 6 to a high level (and won AP Player of the Season playing there, back when Quins were just promoted), so several of the 7s, including Steffon, might be under consideration in case Wood or Croft are unavailable.

Would you have him straight back in the squad Poorfour?

i'm just glad to see Lancaster is a pragmatist and isn't mouthing off (a la Gatland) or closing any doors definitively with any players.

steffon armitage has played most of this season at 8 for Toulon, despite being a natural 7, and even when he plays 7 for toulon they play left/right not tight open so he's a very good cover option for most of the back row. And personally it is a 6 and 7 that i feel we are most vulnerable if we get any injuries.

I've come late to this debate, but I am in agreement with quinsforever. Steffon is in the form of his life, covers 6,7 and 8 and can make an impact for England. Wood, Robshaw, Vunipola is undoubtedly the first choice back row, but Steffon is streets ahead of any of the other candidates as the bench option.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Poorfour wrote:I imagine Lancaster might have had a similar chat with, say, Nick Easter. Can't see him calling on him except in an emergency, but I can very much see him making sure he has his options organised.

By the way, don't forget that Robshaw has also played 6 to a high level (and won AP Player of the Season playing there, back when Quins were just promoted), so several of the 7s, including Steffon, might be under consideration in case Wood or Croft are unavailable.

Would you have him straight back in the squad Poorfour?

Nope. He's better with a summer to get fully fit, I would say. In that context, I'd be happy to see Steffon on the plane. It'd be good for him to be tested at that level.

I saw a stat earlier that Steffon has the most turnovers in both the Top 14 and Heineken Cup this season. He is also a great ball carrier. Lancaster would be mad to keep him out in the cold.

110% agreed. i bet steffon wins ERC Player Of The Year this year. if toulon win the HC its guaranteed.

policies to encourage english players to stay home are all well and good, but if the 2 european players of the year are excluded (granted by 2015 wilko's zimmer may limit his mobility at test level) then frankly thats just bullsh1t.

frankly, only people who havent seen steffon armitage in the big games would deny that they want him in the england squad. in this instance, trust me, seeing is believing...

Not really. I'd prefer him to turn out for France rather than England.

I would love to see a backrow of Steffan, Robshaw and Billy V. Think that would have the perfect skill set.

hammer, i'm really struggling for reasons not to call you on that. either make a rugby point, or explain why else you would prefer him to play for france?

In fact as a bit of fun, here's an adhoc trial team to face Canterbury.

Mako Vunipola
Dave Ward
Kyle Synckler

Assuming Canterbury aren't the best scrummagers then I'll happily lose a little there to see those three around the park.

Dave Attwood
Slater

Two very good lineout men for their clubs, also big blokes and Slater in particular has very good hands and a big work rate.

James Haskell(c)
Steffon Armitage
Ben Morgan

Good workrate, a power 6, fetcher 7 and dynamic 8. Interesting for England as it's 3 specialists rather then 2 grafters and an 8. Haskell for captain is a long shot but I think it'll work well.

Ben Youngs
Danny Cipriani

Both on form at the moment, Youngs has the tempriment and kicking game to work well with Cips who's the form English 10 at the moment.

Luthor Burrell
Manu Tuilagi

Assuming we don't see this combo in the Tests I'd like to see it trialled for half a game here.

Jonny May
Chris Ashton
Anthony Watson

A good combination of pace and smarts, Ashton is in good form and adds some experience and a chance to get back into the Test side.

quinsforever wrote:110% agreed. i bet steffon wins ERC Player Of The Year this year. if toulon win the HC its guaranteed.

policies to encourage english players to stay home are all well and good, but if the 2 european players of the year are excluded (granted by 2015 wilko's zimmer may limit his mobility at test level) then frankly thats just bullsh1t.

frankly, only people who havent seen steffon armitage in the big games would deny that they want him in the england squad. in this instance, trust me, seeing is believing...

Surely that's the players fault though, it's something they can't have both ways and something they knew all along.

i want a RWC 2015 win. dont care about lofty principles. dont care that steffon is black. dont care that he speak french. dont care that he plays for the european champs, a french side, don't care what the guidance lancaster gave about overseas players was.

i want a RWC 2015 win.

anyone who also does really needs to explain why steffon should be excluded.

quinsforever wrote:hammer, i'm really struggling for reasons not to call you on that. either make a rugby point, or explain why else you would prefer him to play for france?

Because I'd prefer players who are plying within a system to represent that system. It's funny because if he hadn't been capped already he wouldn't even qualify for England (although he should but the rules are stupid) [unless his step-father actually adopted him, which he might].

He's playing in France and really pushed on as a player. He also developed his rugby there as a kid. That's discounting the fact he extended his contract knowing the RFU position, so effectively saying he prefers plying in France to playing for England (which is cool).

that is weak. really weak. he's english. have you heard him or delon talk?

wouldnt qualify if he hadnt been capped already? are you serious? he only went to toulon because he fell out with the england setup. why did he move to england to play rugby if he didnt want to play for england?

u havent been following the sport for long. but if you cant make a rugby ability point regarding steffon's eligibility for england then its either about nationality or colour. neither of which are appropriate bases for your opinion.

Regardless of Hammer's view (which I also disagree with), to accuse him of basing it on colour is out of line

quinsforever wrote:that is weak. really weak. he's english. have you heard him or delon talk?

wouldnt qualify if he hadnt been capped already? are you serious? he only went to toulon because he fell out with the england setup. why did he move to england to play rugby if he didnt want to play for england?

u havent been following the sport for long. but if you cant make a rugby ability point regarding steffon's eligibility for england then its either about nationality or colour. neither of which are appropriate bases for your opinion.

WTF? you're the only one bringing 'colour' into this. I wondered why you made a point about him being black previously, are you trying to accuse people who don't want him being selected of racism? That really would be 'weak'.

And I don't make the qualification rules. Delon and Steffon Armtiage qualify for England via residency, therefore if they hadn't already been capped they wouldn't qualify for England now. That's not my opinion, that is a fact. As I said previously, that really is stupid as they grew up in England as infants and play the vast majority of pro rugby in England, but thems the rules.

I've made my point. I want players playing in the English system playing for England. It's not complicated. it's an opinion. That's all. If it doesn't meet you standards as a valid opinion you can GFY   

yappysnap wrote:In fact as a bit of fun, here's an adhoc trial team to face Canterbury.

Mako Vunipola
Dave Ward
Kyle Synckler

Assuming Canterbury aren't the best scrummagers then I'll happily lose a little there to see those three around the park.

Dave Attwood
Slater

Two very good lineout men for their clubs, also big blokes and Slater in particular has very good hands and a big work rate.

James Haskell(c)
Steffon Armitage
Ben Morgan

Good workrate, a power 6, fetcher 7 and dynamic 8. Interesting for England as it's 3 specialists rather then 2 grafters and an 8. Haskell for captain is a long shot but I think it'll work well.

Ben Youngs
Danny Cipriani

Both on form at the moment, Youngs has the tempriment and kicking game to work well with Cips who's the form English 10 at the moment.

Luthor Burrell
Manu Tuilagi

Assuming we don't see this combo in the Tests I'd like to see it trialled for half a game here.

Jonny May
Chris Ashton
Anthony Watson

A good combination of pace and smarts, Ashton is in good form and adds some experience and a chance to get back into the Test side.

Good looking side and I'd agree I'd be very interested in seeing it!

As we know though Armitage is unlikely to feature and Haskell is out of favour which puts the back row out a bit. It will be interesting to see how players on the bench for the tests are used in the mid week game. Someone like Morgan could well start if he's benching for all three tests. If Corbs isn't there Mako will be unlikely to start against Canterbury I'd imagine though.

News is Corbs will return before the end of the season - whether people like it or not if fit I wouldn't be surprised to see him tour. Rowntree is a huge fan and as seen in his faith in Corbs for the Lions he is happy to select him when short on game time.

Whilst the news is looking unfavourable for Wade if he can return before the end of the season it would give him a good shot at using the Barbarians game to prove his fitness given how many players will be missing for it.

And if billy and mako v hadn't been capped for England and didn't live in England they wouldn't be eligible either. Same for lots of players. They made their choices of who they wanted to play for when they put the white jersey on.

To say the armitages should play for France rather than England is what offends me. That is a whole other level from agreeing with the current selection policy for England. So should giteau, Wilko, Habana, Botha, sexton, etc, etc play for France too just because they ply their trade in the top14?

Always thought that the Armitages qualified through their English step father? Still the most important point for me is the fact that Steffan knew the policy when he signed his extension.

I didn't say they should play for France, I said I'd prefer them to play for France than England. I'd rather Wilkinson play for France now than England as well. The move to Toulon has revitalised his career so why not? But then I'm one of those (few) that was happy for Flutey to represent England.

So I 100% would prefer them not to get picked for England while playing outside of England (which doesn't mean I'll get my knickers in a knot if they do). I don't think it would be unreasonable for them to play for France (if they wanted to). So I'd prefer them to turn out for France.

And it's not just, you play in X so you play for X. And Delon played for France at junior level (U16 or U18?), not should about Steffon. Fail to why you're offended at them having the chance to do it at senior level (not that it matters what you get offended at).

Interesting take on player qualification Hammer! That really would turn internationals into super clubs.

yappysnap wrote:I would love to see a backrow of Steffan, Robshaw and Billy V. Think that would have the perfect skill set.

As a Quins fan surely that would be a disaster. Poor old Captain Twickers would be knackered covering for the other two when they hit their quiet periods.

Reasons why I do not want Steffon in the England Squad:

1) His work rate is rather low - watch the Leinster game and he was present at about 30% of breakdowns. After any carry he disappeared for about 5 minutes while catching his breath.
2) His fitness is below par (which probably explains the above)
3)He chose to renew his Toulon contract rather than come back to england and fight for a test spot
4) His availability for training sessions is limited.
5) He may not be available for the NZ tour having accepted the cash to play for the World XV v SA
6) I do not want a swathe of other English players leaving for the money after RWC 15 knowing that they will still be selected.

Reasons I would consider him:

A) We have an injury crisis.
B) He offers something a little different

LondonTiger wrote:Reasons why I do not want Steffon in the England Squad:

1) His work rate is rather low - watch the Leinster game and he was present at about 30% of breakdowns. After any carry he disappeared for about 5 minutes while catching his breath.HE STILL WON MOTM. PERSONALLY I WOULD PREFER SOMEONE WHO WHEN THEY DO CONTEST THE TURNOVER ACTUALLY SUCCEEDS IN TURNING OVER THE BALL RATHER THAN RUN ALL OVER THE PITCH CONTESTING EVERYTHING, ACHIEVING NOTHING. HE IS A POWERFUL EXPLOSIVE PLAYER. HE IS NOT GOING TO HAVE THE SAME MOBILITY AS ROBSHAW OR WOOD. 2) His fitness is below par (which probably explains the above) NOT SURE ABOUT THIS. SURE, HE LOOKS UNFIT, BUT THEN SO DOES BILLY V. 3)He chose to renew his Toulon contract rather than come back to england and fight for a test spot HE GOT CRUDELY DUMPED BY THE ENGLAND SETUP AND IS GOING TO WIN EUROPEAN POTY THIS YEAR. WHO WOULD GO BACK TO ENGLAND AFTER ENGLAND ALREADY TURNED THEIR BACK ON HIM? PLUS, STEFFON IS NOT ASKING TO PLAY FOR ENGLAND OR MAKING ANY NOISES ABOUT WANTING TO HAVE HIS CAKE AND EAT IT. BALL IS IN LANCASTERS COURT. 4) His availability for training sessions is limited. PROBABLY. DONT KNOW WHAT HIS CONTRACT IS. GIVEN THE FRENCH PLAYERS ARE NOW PART OF AN ELITE AGREEMENT SIMILAR TO THE EPS I WONDER WHAT THAT MEANS FOR STEFFON ET AL. 5) He may not be available for the NZ tour having accepted the cash to play for the World XV v SA. TOP14 FINAL IS MAY31ST SO ODDS ON HE WOULDNT BE AVAILABLE UNTIL SAME TIME AS AP FINALISTS. HE COULD ALWAYS GIVE BACK THE MONEY FOR WORLD XV I'M SURE. 6) I do not want a swathe of other English players leaving for the money after RWC 15 knowing that they will still be selected.

FAIR POINT.


Reasons I would consider him:

A) We have an injury crisis.B) He offers something a little different

AT 6 AND 7 I THINK WE ARE ONE INCIDENT AWAY FROM AN INJURY CRISIS IN THOSE POSITIONS. ALL SEEMS ROSY AT THE MOMENT, BUT BEYOND ROBSHAW AND WOOD WE ARE EITHER BRINGING BACK PLAYERS FROM INJURY OR GOING INTO UNKNOWN WATERS AT TEST LEVEL.

I WOULD BRING HIM INTO SOME OF THE SQUAD TRAINING IF HE CAN MAKE IT, FIGURE OUT WHAT HIS CONTRACT WOULD ALLOW HIM TO PARTICIPATE IN IN TERMS OF TRAINING NEXT SEASON. SEND HIM OUT TO NZ AFTER THE top14 FINAL. IF HE IS GOING TO BE USED HE NEEDS TO BE INTEGRATED NOW. NO POINT WAITING TIL ROBSHAW GETS AN INJURY 3 MONTHS BEFORE RWC2015...

Whilst i agree we need to develop some depth and competition, Im not sure id call it an injury crisis Quins.
 
At 6 for example in worst case scenario we could put Launchbury or Slater in at 6 and i would trust them to perform very well in Woods role.
Now the Lawes trial was a disatser at 6, but i dont think it would be with either of those guys in there.
And if that happened it would then allow a second row of say Attwood and Lawes...which would mean a huge yet surprisingly mobile back 5.
 
4 Attwood (Or Launchbury if Slater chosen at 6)
5 Lawes
6 Launchbury (Or Slater)
7 Robshaw
8 Vunipola / Ben Morgan
 
Like wise if Robshaw is out we have some good options i think.

QF, I think the fitness point is a valid one. England have based their whole forward strategy on work rate - with the exception of Wilson and possibly Morgan, Rowntree and Lancaster have consistently sacrificed outright power or bulk for players who can be in the right position and have good line speed play after play.

Put crudely, it's based on forcing the opposition to make mistakes or kick the ball because they can't break down the line, rather than on forcing outright turnovers. It relies heavily on mobility and big engines, especially at 4, 5, 6 & 7.

Steffon's fitness seems to be geared more to explosive power in short bursts (he actually looked very like Morgan in his movements and pattern of play in the QF - might explain why he is going well at 8). Can England's game adapt to that? If he were at 8, definitely. At 6 or 7 it would place additional pressure on Lawesbury and Robshaw. I think they'd cope against most teams but I would worry against SANZAR, France, Ireland and Wales.

He'd have to be making a regular decisive impact for it to be worthwhile. If he's hitting 1 in 3 rucks, say, and the average possession is 6 or 7 phases, I think he would need to be forcing a turnover, say, 25% of the time.