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England U20 JRWC Squad Announced

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PenfroPete
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Welly
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Post by Cumbrian Sat 26 Apr 2014, 10:50 am

It's going to be difficult to watch the tournament this time around because I believe the games are on at around 6 am our time (Or could watch a bit before work!), so it's a recording job I reckon.

http://www.rfu.com/news/2014/april/news-articles/250414_england_u20_squad

England Under 20 squad
Forwards
Biyi Alo (Saracens)
James Chisholm (Harlequins)
Joel Conlon (Exeter Chiefs)
Tom Ellis (Bath Rugby)
Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby)
Jonny Hill (Gloucester Rugby)
Paul Hill (Leeds Carnegie)
Danny Hobbs-Awoyemi (Northampton Saints)
Maro Itoje (Saracens)
Gus Jones (London Wasps)
Alex Lundberg (London Wasps)
Ross Moriarty (Gloucester Rugby)
Harry Rudkin (Leicester Tigers)
Harry Thacker (Leicester Tigers)
Jack Walker (Leeds Carnegie)
Tom Woolstencroft (Bath Rugby)

Backs
Callum Braley (Bristol Rugby, captain)
Billy Burns (Gloucester Rugby)
Nathan Earle (Saracens)
Tom Fowlie (London Irish)
Aaron Morris (Bedford Blues)
Sam Olver (Northampton Saints)
Henry Purdy (Leicester Tigers)
Howard Packman (Northampton Saints)
Harry Sloan (Harlequins)
Tom Stephenson (Northampton Saints)
Henry Taylor (Loughborough University)
Nick Tompkins (Saracens)

Is this an indicator that Scott Wilson will be going on the senior tour?
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Post by Sgt_Pooly Mon 28 Apr 2014, 12:54 am

How good is this group?

They looked outstanding against the Welsh, who themselves have done well over the last few years. I honestly didn't think last years group were that great and they won the WC!

I really like the look of Taylor & Tompkins in the backs.

Conlon seems like he's been around for ages at this level and has really stepped up, as has Gus Jones.

I think Thacker can be found out against the better teams with his size but some real talent in there. Bets on who'll be in the full squad in 2 years?

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Post by king_carlos Mon 28 Apr 2014, 5:48 am

Scott Wilson's omission definitely has interesting implications for the Senior squad!

As for this group of players - the backs look fantastic, especially with Stephenson and Tompkins a potentially brilliant centre partnership.

I've got to admit the forwards don't grab my attention quite as they have in previous years. There are a fair few names I'm not as familiar with in the forwards as well so hopefully they'll prove me wrong.

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Post by LondonTiger Mon 28 Apr 2014, 6:23 am

Maro Itoje in the forwards and Tom Stephenson in the backs are the stand out players for me.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Mon 28 Apr 2014, 7:52 am

Scott Wilson is a long way from being ready for the full side although the trip won't do him any harm.

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Post by yappysnap Mon 28 Apr 2014, 8:17 am

James Chisholm could be a fantastic flanker for us. Think Hooper or Arde Savea; a short guy with amazing wheels.

Sloan is another impressive player as well. But I think he's quite well known.

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Post by Geordie Mon 28 Apr 2014, 9:23 am

Agree with Sarge...Wilson is going to be top class...but not ready yet. The experience will be very good for him though.

Sad to see not one Newcastle Falcon in there.

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Post by LondonTiger Mon 28 Apr 2014, 9:48 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Scott Wilson is a long way from being ready for the full side although the trip won't do him any harm.

Has he started a Premiership match yet?

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Post by Geordie Mon 28 Apr 2014, 9:49 am

Nope

EDIT

My mistake i think he started against Saracens the other week.


Last edited by GeordieFalcon on Mon 28 Apr 2014, 9:52 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Mon 28 Apr 2014, 9:52 am

LondonTiger wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:Scott Wilson is a long way from being ready for the full side although the trip won't do him any harm.

Has he started a Premiership match yet?

He's been a mixed bag off the bench. Usually holds his own but can occasionally be got at.

It'll do him some good working with Rowntree, he's still a boy.

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Post by LondonTiger Mon 28 Apr 2014, 9:54 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:Nope

EDIT

My mistake i think he started against Saracens the other week.

tomahawk started according to AP website

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Post by Geordie Mon 28 Apr 2014, 9:57 am

Ah i'll check.

In that case no he hasnt started a premiership game this season.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Mon 28 Apr 2014, 10:03 am

He hasn't GF, it was Hodgson's first AP start against Sarries

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Post by Geordie Mon 28 Apr 2014, 10:10 am

Ah thats right...im getting confused. And McGuigan also got a first start recently.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Mon 28 Apr 2014, 10:25 am

Forgot about McGuigan.

Wilson took a bit of a hammering when he came on actually.

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Post by Geordie Mon 28 Apr 2014, 10:35 am

Sad to see no Falcons mind Sarge. Hopefully theres a few down the ages groups coming through though.

Aside from that the team looks strong. Some big powerful yet skilled forwards and some cracking backs.

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Post by Geordie Mon 28 Apr 2014, 10:47 am

Interesting the thoughts on the Unoffy is that Scotty is injured after going off during the Sarries game.

And not likely to tour NZ.

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Post by Geordie Wed 30 Apr 2014, 8:14 am

How many teams are in the U20 JWC?

Whats the format?

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Post by LondonTiger Wed 30 Apr 2014, 9:43 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:How many teams are in the U20 JWC?

Whats the format?

If it is following the usual format, there will be several competitions going on at once. Each tournament I can remember - the top Tier had 3 pools of 4. With the 3 group winners and best runner up making the semi. There are also play-offs for 5-8 and 9-12, with the team finishing 12th replaced by the winner of the second Tier.

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Post by beshocked Wed 30 Apr 2014, 11:03 am

Two of those backline players will be Sarries players next season - Henry Taylor and Aaron Morris.

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Post by Cumbrian Wed 30 Apr 2014, 11:08 am

Beshocked, you've probably been asked this before but how do you rate Itoje's chances of breaking into the Sarries first team? I've not seen him play that much (don't get a chance to follow age grade rugby as much these days), but from what I've seen he looks to be a find. Do you reckon he'll end up playing back row or second row more long term?
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Post by beshocked Wed 30 Apr 2014, 11:59 am

Well Cumbrian it depends how strong the rumours are in regards to Jim Hamilton joining Sarries.

Personally I would like Sarries to use any money left in the cap (if any) on a top quality TH. Instead of paying a fee to get Hamilton.

Sarries don't normally throw youngsters in unless there's a real injury crisis so Itoje's starts could be limited. Borthwick is a huge hole to fill.

Not sure people would have expected Barrington, a Jersey prop last season to be 2nd choice LH.

Our lock and backrow resources look like this:

2nd row - Smith,Sherriff,Kruis,Borthwick,Hargreaves and Botha (academy locks Jubb and Itoje)

8 fighting for 3 spots in the 23

Backrow - Brown,Wray,Burger,Fraser,B.Vunipola,Joubert (academy Hankin, Stringer)

8 fighting for 4 spots in the 23

Both are really competitive areas but I would say 2nd row is more up for grabs, certainly in terms of starting anyway.




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Post by Cumbrian Wed 30 Apr 2014, 12:57 pm

Thought so, I'd expect his progress into the first team might be slow and steady rather than too much too soon, you're not going to change a team unnecessarily (especially a winning one). Reckon he'll do well to make his way onto the subs bench and get a couple of starts.

Is Sherriff sticking Sarries around next year? Heard rumours that he may be heading to Irish.
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Post by Geordie Wed 30 Apr 2014, 1:04 pm

Thats not a bad thing Cumbrian...gives him a good grounding and he's not thrown in too soon.

He's in a very good enviornment so if he's good enough he'll make it. But theres no rush as we have a host of crackin young second rowers at the minute for England.

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Post by Cumbrian Wed 30 Apr 2014, 1:11 pm

Agreed on both points, mind you from an England point of view I'd prefer to see him settle at flanker. We're very well stocked for young locks as you say.
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Post by Geordie Wed 30 Apr 2014, 1:16 pm

What position does he predominantly play at?

We could do with some beasts to start coming through on the flank. Aside from Garvey there isnt many.

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Post by Poorfour Wed 30 Apr 2014, 3:49 pm

beshocked wrote:Well Cumbrian it depends how strong the rumours are in regards to Jim Hamilton joining Sarries.

Personally I would like Sarries to use any money left in the cap (if any) on a top quality TH. Instead of paying a fee to get Hamilton.

Sarries don't normally throw youngsters in unless there's a real injury crisis so Itoje's starts could be limited. Borthwick is a huge hole to fill.

Not sure people would have expected Barrington, a Jersey prop last season to be 2nd choice LH.

Our lock and backrow resources look like this:

2nd row - Smith,Sherriff,Kruis,Borthwick,Hargreaves and Botha (academy locks Jubb and Itoje)

8 fighting for 3 spots in the 23

Backrow - Brown,Wray,Burger,Fraser,B.Vunipola,Joubert (academy Hankin, Stringer)

8 fighting for 4 spots in the 23

Both are really competitive areas but I would say 2nd row is more up for grabs, certainly in terms of starting anyway.




Tell you what, swap you Itoje and Kruis for Paul Doran-Jones. That's parity of surnames, solves your excess lock problem and gives you the TH prop you crave. Honest.
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Post by LondonTiger Wed 30 Apr 2014, 3:59 pm

He said top quality TH.

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Post by beshocked Wed 30 Apr 2014, 5:30 pm

Poorfour thanks for the offer but would have to politely refuse...

Even if Sinckler was thrown into the bargain I would still say no. PDJ is not good enough. OK 

True Londontiger. Very Happy 

Geordiefalcon well he's a lock/6 but I think he plays more at lock. I think he's meant to be like another Courtney Lawes type of player.

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Post by Cumbrian Wed 30 Apr 2014, 6:08 pm

Yeah he played at no. 4 for the U20s throughout the six nations.
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Post by Chjw131 Thu 01 May 2014, 3:22 pm

He played No.4 and did outstandingly well there. He's already a fair size at 19 but he's certainly got the engine to play BS.

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Post by The Saint Thu 15 May 2014, 1:21 pm

Do you guys have any warm-ups in preparation for the JWC?

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Post by Cumbrian Thu 15 May 2014, 1:52 pm

Not that I'm aware of. I don't think England generally play warm up games before the JWC, it tends to be a pretty intense tournament anyway, lots of games in a short space of time.
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Post by The Saint Thu 15 May 2014, 2:12 pm

True, though England are usually well prepared so I thought they may have. Wales' took place last night against Scotland.

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Post by Geordie Thu 15 May 2014, 2:59 pm

Why is Scott Wilson not in this squad?

EDIT - Turns out Dean Richards has deliberately pulled him from the JWC squad to benefit from a proper full pre-season.

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT Tue 20 May 2014, 9:52 am

Tom Stephenson has been getting a fair bit of game time for Saints. He looks quality and not at all out of place in a side that has been at the top or thereabouts all season. So good in fact that Saints hardly missed their star England centre of the 6N.
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Post by DaveM Mon 26 May 2014, 1:13 pm

Harry Thacker and Tom Fowlie have dropped out injured (as has Jonny Hill, but I don't know anything about him). Thacker is highly rated but tiny and to me always seemed to destabilise the England scrum. I'm more disappointed about Fowlie, who seems to have something about him.

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Post by Welly Mon 26 May 2014, 1:40 pm

Shame about Thacker but cockerill will be glad to have for the whole pre-season and will prob try and put some more mass on him, reckon he will be 3rd/4th choice hooker next year behind Youngs and Italian 1st choice Ghiraldini, so has some great players to learn off.

 Thacker when I saw him play in the LV cup has a very high skill set and a very good throw but as said his size in the scrum could let him down, be interesting to see how cockers plays it, but reckon he will concentrate on mass much like he did with Ford couple of seasons ago

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Post by formerly known as Sam Mon 26 May 2014, 2:06 pm

Thacker is a real class act. He does need a little weight adding but in the loose his work rate and dynamism. Need to bulk him out Tom Youngs style. I think he's got an injury abut hopefully he'll get over that and have a good pre season. I think his supposed scrum woes are over exaggerated due to his size. It isn't a strength like it is with others but he has a decent strike and seemingly good technique. I think we'll miss his impact against the more fluid sides like Wales, Australia and NZ.

Some great talent still in that squad. Jones and Conlon in the back row. Itoje in a lock. Stephenson and Braely in the backs. Think we should have a decent tournament. Not sure we have quite enough power up front in the tight five or quite enough magic in at 10 to grab the win though.

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Post by DaveM Mon 26 May 2014, 2:55 pm

Don't forget Tompkins at OC.

England really developed over the course of the 6 Nations and they have a chance. Stephenson and Tomkins are the best centres combination the u20's have ever had, the backrow looks strong, we have several good locks and I'll predict that Itoje will be England's player of the tournament, even given how highly I rate Stephenson. Itoje looks almost nailed on to play for the senior side to me.

In terms of downsides the scrum didn't convince during the 6 Nations (even when Scott Wilson was playing), but it always looked worse when Thacker was on to me. And I agree the FHs don't really convince at this stage, but the SHs are really excellent.

Btw I doubt that Thacker is a better prospect than Jack Walker. If he's turned 18 then it wasn't long ago, but people have been talking about him for several years.

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Post by Welly Mon 26 May 2014, 3:09 pm

When I have seen Thacker play in the LV and from what I heard from Notts supporters Thacker didn't struggle in the scrum there.

 You just have to see the LV game against Ospreys to see what he brings in terms of prospects.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Mon 26 May 2014, 3:14 pm

Thacker got his Tigers debut at 17. Barely 17 at that as that was when we win at the Stoop so we're going back a few years for that. Tigers generally only bring through the special talent that early. The likes of Moody, Ollie Smith, Ben Youngs and Manu. Cole wasn't considered the prospect Thacker is. Given who Tigers have on the staff they know a thing or two about hookers. Certainly needs some more bulk though.

Is Walker a hooker or another convert. Waiting for LCD to learn to throw or Thacker to bulk up after converting from prop and fly half respectively isn't ideal. It's good to see England producing a good stock of front row options again.

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Post by DaveM Mon 26 May 2014, 5:31 pm

The Leicester scrum might not struggle with Thacker in it, but the England u20's one did.

Walker has been a hooker for several years at least.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Mon 26 May 2014, 6:02 pm

Thacker won't be missed. He's way to small to be a hooker and hinders us in the scrum, which would be a real issue against the bigger sides.

Thacker won't make it in the AP imo

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Post by formerly known as Sam Tue 27 May 2014, 8:53 pm

His dad was a similar player for Tigers. Once he bulks out he'll do fine. He's aggressive enough, he's got some decent darts and both his skills level and work rate stand him apart from his contemporaries. England will certainly miss him in the loose, especially when they come up against teams that can match England's high tempo and power game.

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Post by PenfroPete Fri 30 May 2014, 1:48 pm

LIVE ON SKY

I'll post details of the televised matches from the JWC on that thread
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Post by Welly Sun 01 Jun 2014, 9:12 pm

England U20: 15 Aaron Morris, 14 George Catchpole, 13 Nick Tompkins, 12 Harry Sloan, 11 Nathan Earle, 10 Sam Olver, 9 Callum Braley (captain), 8 James Chisholm, 7 Gus Jones, 6 Ross Moriarty, 5 Tom Ellis, 4 Maro Itoje, 3 Paul Hill, 2 Tom Woolstencroft, 1 Danny Hobbs-Awoyemi.
Replacements: 16 Jack Walker, 17 Alex Lundberg, 18 Biyi Alo, 19 Charlie Ewels, 20 Joel Conlon, 21 Henry Taylor, 22 Billy Burns, 23 Henry Purdy.

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Post by sickofwendy Sun 01 Jun 2014, 10:18 pm

No Stephenson?

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sun 01 Jun 2014, 10:31 pm

Stephenson played yesterday didn't he?

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Post by Welly Sun 01 Jun 2014, 10:34 pm

Stephenson was playing for saints this weekend in the final.

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