Munster v Ulster non event...

Unfortunately as dead rubbers go this weekends game between Munster and Ulster is pretty much a non event except for pride.

Its 18-17 head to head in favour of Munster.

Teams will be interesting. I expect Munster to put out a strong team not sure about Ulster...

Wonder how many Red/Yellow cards will be dished out...

Owens to ref.

Ulster...academy team...

Ulster XV and replacements to face Munster, RaboDirect PRO12, Thomond Park, Saturday 10th May (kick off 18:30):

(15-9): C Gilroy, D McIlwaine, M Allen, S McCloskey, R Scholes, J McKinney, M Heaney; (1-8); C Black, R Herring, A Warwick, L Stevenson, D Tuohy (Captain), M McComish, S Doyle, N Williams;

Replacements (16-23): K McCall, B Ross, A Macklin, N McComb, C Joyce, D Shanahan, R Andrew, P Nelson.

Munster team announced.

Mun XV v Ulster; Jones, VHD, Laulala, Downey, Zebo, Keatley, Williams, Kilcoyne, Varley-Capt, Ryan, Foley, POC, Butler, Dougall, Coughlan

Replacements; MacDonald, Cronin, Cotter, B Holland, O'Donnell, Murray, Hanrahan, Earls

Not exactly a dead rubber as Zebre could in theory pull off a shock.

I'm very disappointed that after a very promising start Munster aren't even going to get a much needed home semi.

As shocks go that would be a big one...the Leinster and Glasgow (specifically) performances were poor. Not even getting a LBP against Glasgow cost us in effect....

Looks like Ulster will be sending the team down in ambulances..at least they have an excuse this time and its not like a couple of years back when they sent a bunch of kids (enthusiastic ones at least) for the game...

I would dare say Tuohy and Black will start. Andrew, Gilroy possibly too if fit. Beyond that it's hard to say. At a guess (and without knowing the injury status in the wider squad)

Black
Annett
Lutton? (If not Macklin)
Tuohy
Stevenson
Joyce
Doyle
McComish
Heaney
McKinney
Gilroy
McCloskey (if fit)
Nelson?
Scholes?
Andrew

For us it is a dead rubber. No chance of 3rd. The thing is, Leinster will certainly be taking advantage of the chance to rest some key players and we have to do the same. I would like to see Tommy Bowe, Johann Muller, Andrew Trimble, Luke Marshall and Chris Henry rested. But otherwise at full strength.

Well, full strength depending on whether or not we are going to get any of our tight heads back from injury. But thats a separate issue.

1. Callum Black (needs game time)
2. Niall Annett
3. ?
4. Iain Henderson
5. Dan Tuohy (needs game time)
6. Roger Wilson (needs game time)
7. Sean Doyle
8. Nick Williams
9. Paul Marshall
10. Paddy Jackson
11. Craig Gilroy
12. Stuart McCloskey
13. Darren Cave
14. Michael Allen
15. Jared Payne (needs game time)

16. Rob Herring 17. Andrew Warwick 18. Adam Macklin 19. Lewis Stevenson 20. Mike McComish 21. Michael Heaney 22. James McKinney 23. Ricky Andrew

Probably want to change the halfbacks early in the second half. We want to win the game but we also want to be conscious about not showing our hand to possible opponents in the final if we make it that far.

Will the ST holders actually turn up to this game?

I could be wrong but I would say it will be a decent crowd (close to 20K). Probably the last home game of the season, number of players moving on...

Well I'll be there but to be honest this really is a non event.

I doubt if there will be many away fans and if I lived in the far reaches of Cork or Waterford I'm not sure this game would entice me if I had something else on.

Pity it wasn't on last week with Riverfest and the fireworks and all that.

Given there's very little riding on the game I hope the 2 teams  at least try to entertain.

I'm sure the teams will go out to play a bit of rugby, it's an interpro for goodness sake, we always like to get one over on our Irish brothers. I hope we are all pleasantly surprised by the quality of the game otherwise that's saturday night shafted for me
That team that Notch put forward is as strong if not stronger than the one fielded against Leinster and is a fairly likely lineup. We might even keep 15 men on the pitch just to throw you Munsties a curveball.

The team is clearly not as strong or stronger. It's weaker.

Sorry Notchy I didn't check it out fully, it was a cursory glance and I missed the wings completely although I think McCloskey could bring more to the party than Luke Marshall who is in awful form at the moment IMO (all be it he's being wrongly utilised as a bosh merchant).

If Afoa could make a return I see that side as being pretty blinkin handy though, I would worry less about that pack that last weeks if Afoa is returning. Is there any word on him, I think he owes us a game or two.

whats the story with Ferris. is he finished for the season

Ulster by 12.

rodders wrote:Ulster by 12.

Is that in terms of the score or cards Rodders..

GoodinTightSpaces wrote:whats the story with Ferris. is he finished for the season

He had rolled his other ankle, not the previously injured one but it hadn't been regarded as serious. He was also having his knee assessed probably to see how it has been effected by the game time. Further than that I've no clue but I would hope to see him have another venture onto the pitch in the semi final or maybe we'll save him for the final after we do away with the Leinster lads

ME-109 wrote:

rodders wrote:Ulster by 12.

Is that in terms of the score or cards Rodders..

Ah here now we're only on a red card per game average, hardly a dirty team.

Ulster to win by two accidental collisions to one unintentional tip tackle you heard it here first!

Notch wrote:Ulster to win by two accidental collisions to one unintentional tip tackle you heard it here first!

Could be a high scoring one...add in a stamping, high tackle and punch up...

I wouldn't risk PJ in this one, if he picks up an injury we're done for in the semis, it's a dead rubber, who cares if we get beaten?!?

Surely we can start calling this match 'The Third Place Playoff'?

Surely we can start calling this match 'The Third Place Playoff'?

Given that Ulster can't get to 3rd place I don't think so.

Yeah it would be a good chance to give Jackson a break actually.

Of course the issue then becomes who do we play at 10. McKinney to get a final appearance I suspect, but who would be his back up? Payne?

MunsterMac wrote:

Surely we can start calling this match 'The Third Place Playoff'?

Given that Ulster can't get to 3rd place I don't think so.

I meant that with both teams being relative underdogs for their semi-finals, this would serve as a decider of who was in third-place behind Leinster and Glasgow as finalists.

I meant that with both teams being relative underdogs for their semi-finals, this would serve as a decider of who was in third-place behind Leinster and Glasgow as finalists.

  

If you say so.

To be honest I don't think there's much in it, all four teams are quality outfits. Big opportunity for Glasgow, but when was the last time they were involved in an end of season playoff game?

I wasn't meaning to lay Glasgow out as massive favourites or anything, it's just that form and (probable) home advantage will be on their side, that's all.

Greygoose, this is actually Glasgow's fourth playoff in five years.

IanBru wrote:

MunsterMac wrote:

Surely we can start calling this match 'The Third Place Playoff'?

Given that Ulster can't get to 3rd place I don't think so.

I meant that with both teams being relative underdogs for their semi-finals, this would serve as a decider of who was in third-place behind Leinster and Glasgow as finalists.

I think the semi-finals would decide that, no?

I don't understand why you are so confident. Glasgow are a good team but Munster and Leinster now go from third gear kick around league form mode to knockout rugby mode. Neither of them have bigger fish to fry in Europe. They know about what it takes to win one-off games. Glasgow don't yet. They excel in the marathon of the league stage of the Pro12 but their Heineken Cup record shows of the four teams they have the worst record in games where its a tightrope and one mistake is fatal. Thats what playoff rugby is. Not writing off Glasgow but after the weekend what's happened over the last 22 games means absolutely nothing and it's all about nerve and composure. Munster and Ulster have won away at tough grounds all over Europe. Saying this is a 3rd place playoff is funny because I wouldn't be surprised if it's a Cup Final in a few weeks. I'm expecting a Leinster vs Munster final, but a bet on Ulster vs Munster in the final isn't a bad shout either.

greygoose wrote:To be honest I don't think there's much in it, all four teams are quality outfits. Big opportunity for Glasgow, but when was the last time they were involved in an end of season playoff game?

Last year. And in 4 of the previous 5 years

Glasgow look the team to beat for me. I could see them winning the rabo for sure.

D'oh! My apologies Glasgow fans. Am I right in thinking that Edinburgh are the only scottish team to have made the final?

I don't think so.

I don't think any Scottish team has ever made the final in the League or the HC.

Edinbokke were league runners-up in 2008/09

Yes, that was the last year before the playoffs were introduced.

Seems Neil Francis (  ) in last weekends article said Leinster had about enough to beat Ulster in the semi, giving them more of a chance if Pienaar is fit...he didnt even mention Munster and just said the final will be against Glasgow....we love Franno in Munster..

Franno is a clown and a bit like GG he really dislikes Munster.

I would like to see Munster put out our strongest team and put a second or third string Ulster team to the sword. Build confidence build momentum into the Glasgow game.

Surely Munster will be wanting to rest a number of crucial players too? I know nobody wraps players in cotton wool anymore but haven't your pivotal players had plenty of gametime to date and therefore could benefit from a week off as much as our players would? Or is our rivalry such that we'll both go for it hammer and tongs? We'll see come tomorrow with team announcements.

Since the introduction of the playoffs (aside from a few blips) all 4 teams have been fairly consistent.

Spoiler:

Quiet day at work?

ME-109 wrote:Quiet day at work?

The information is close to hand...

...but yes...

Mickado wrote:Since the introduction of the playoffs (aside from a few blips) all 4 teams have been fairly consistent.

Spoiler:

Well. In a league of twelve, I'd say that Leinster have been consistent, Glasgow wildly inconsistent and the other two varying degrees of so-so.

Well its 3 wins each for Munster and Leinster...which is fairly consistent...

BlueMuff wrote:Franno is a clown and a bit like GG he really dislikes Munster.

I would like to see Munster put out our strongest team and put a second or third string Ulster team to the sword. Build confidence build momentum into the Glasgow game.

Next three (possible) games are important for us to be the top team in Ireland...

ME-109 wrote:Well its 3 wins each for Munster and Leinster...which is fairly consistent...

Are we singing from the same songsheet here, ME?

I was referring to Mick's 'trend analysis' which shows Munster no wins at all (and Glasgow all over the gaff like a Sauchiehall Street drunk). And that has the 'since the introduction of the playoffs' constraint.

I wish folk would provide primary sources for the bases of their analyses.

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Well its 3 wins each for Munster and Leinster...which is fairly consistent...

Are we singing from the same songsheet here, ME?

I was referring to Mick's 'trend analysis' which shows Munster no wins at all (and Glasgow all over the gaff like a Sauchiehall Street drunk). And that has the 'since the introduction of the playoffs' constraint.

I wish folk would provide primary sources for the bases of their analyses.

Meh...who wins is the only relevant stat.

ME-109 wrote:

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Well its 3 wins each for Munster and Leinster...which is fairly consistent...

Are we singing from the same songsheet here, ME?

I was referring to Mick's 'trend analysis' which shows Munster no wins at all (and Glasgow all over the gaff like a Sauchiehall Street drunk). And that has the 'since the introduction of the playoffs' constraint.

I wish folk would provide primary sources for the bases of their analyses.

Meh...who wins is the only relevant stat.

100% of me agrees with you ME.
(Now there's a sentence that only makes sense to regular posters on here.)

Stats are yesterday's news

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Well its 3 wins each for Munster and Leinster...which is fairly consistent...

Are we singing from the same songsheet here, ME?

I was referring to Mick's 'trend analysis' which shows Munster no wins at all (and Glasgow all over the gaff like a Sauchiehall Street drunk). And that has the 'since the introduction of the playoffs' constraint.

I wish folk would provide primary sources for the bases of their analyses.

It shows Munster topped the table once, which was the year they won it. And it shows that each year, 3 of the 4 teams listed made the playoffs.

The primary source is:

http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/matchcentre/table.php?includeref=11189&season=2013-2014

Mea culpa, Mick. Munster did hit the league top spot.
But what you said about consistency remains erm - subjective?

Maybe i wasn't very precise, what I meant was that of all of the years in which the playoffs have been in place, 3 of the 4 teams on the chart have been involved, even though this is the first year that all 4 of them are in it together.