Ulster 2014/2015

First topic message reminder :

Details of pre-season games to confirmed- we take on Exeter Chiefs at Ravenhill on Friday the 22nd August and then travel to Donnybrook to face Leinster on Friday the 29th August. On the transfer front, it seems like our business for the year is concluded. Second row looks strong and our back line is stronger than ever, but there are concerns about our depth in the front row and back row of the pack. A lot depends on Wiehahn Herbst turning out to be a hit and Chris Henry staying fit- our decision to spend a valuable NIQ spot on Louis Ludik and Sean Doyles departure leaves us exposed at open side with two new, extremely untested players in Reidy and Butterworth vying to be Henrys understudy. Rob Herring is another player who needs to avoid injury at all costs. Niall Annett has been allowed to leave along with Brady in recent seasons and the 3rd choice hooker is not obvious. With seedings in Europe determined by league performance, Ulster may very well rue their lack of depth in the forward pack come May.

Players Out
Johann Muller (retired), Paddy Wallace (retired), Stephen Ferris (retired), Chris Cochrane (retired), Chris Farrell (Grenoble), Niall Annett (Worcester), John Afoa (Gloucester), Tom Court (London Irish), James McKinney (Rotherham), David McIlwaine (Rotherham), Paddy McAllister (Aurillac), Sean Doyle (ACT Brumbies), Adam Macklin (Rotherham), Ian Porter (Connacht)

Players In
Franco van der Merwe (Golden Lions), Louis Ludik (Agen), Wiehahn Herbst (Natal Sharks), Ruaidhrí Murphy (ACT Brumbies), Dave Ryan (Zebre), Ian Humphreys (London Irish), Charlie Butterworth (Lansdowne), Sean Reidy (Counties Manukau)

Ulster don't do turbulent off seasons but if we did...

We've also been rocked with the seismic revelation David Humphreys is leaving the province- indeed has already left- for Gloucester. Anscombe was slated to be seeing out the last year of his contract before being quietly let go but the Humphreys bombshell left him as the odd man out, and he's been pushed out the door. The decision was partly because he was hired to work under a Director of Rugby and Ulster are looking for someone with more experience in the market to take on Humphreys role in addition to the coaching responsibilities. As usual, the rumour mill is on overdrive and opinions are polarised- but this is Ulster Rugby after all. Les Kiss is our interim Director of Rugby and it seems Allen Clarke is filling the role of forwards coach in the short term. More changes or appointments could be forthcoming.

If all that wasn't enough we've been dealt a real group of death in the new Champions Cup- double-winners Toulon will brave the Ravenhill roar along with old friends Leicester Tigers and old foes the Scarlets. All in all, this team should be capable of securing a Top 4 finish at the very least in the Pro12 and we need to target the top two, our prospects in Europe look more occluded- it might come down to best runners-up and our pool promises to be tight and competitive.

Opening fixtures

F; Exeter Chiefs (H)
F; Leinster (A)

Pro12; Scarlets (A)
Pro12; Zebre (H)
Pro12; Cardiff Blues (A)
Pro12; Zebre (A)
Pro12; Edinburgh (H)

rodders wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:
I will slap whoever suggests shifting Henderson.

OK sorry stick him back at lock! ...

  

Far too much angst, hand wringing and half truths as usual.

Humphreys wants TWO teams of Test class players. The guys who have been released are either past Test class or will never become it.

Ulster have one Test class 15 Payne - they need two. Hogg is available, plays 15 and is Test class. Are there better options out there for fullback?

Ulster have one possible Test class 13 in Cave - but in truth he has had plenty of opportunities to demand selection for Ireland and it hasn't happened. If he really was Test class he would have been playing before now. There are plenty of Ulster fans love him for who he is and what he brings but realise that he is just shy of being the top player that Ulster need there.

So what if Payne says he wants the 13 shirt - players have been equally criticised in the past for being unambitious. He has a track record at 13 in SR and Ulster should be delighted that he wants to play there. If he started on insisting on a birthday cake then certainly hang him from one of the floodlights but showing ambition is something Ulster need a whole lot more of.

Of course Ulster could populate the team with Faloons, Whittens, Andresses and keep the McKinneys and McIlwaines to have good honest Ulster stock who wouldn't say boo to a goose and stay forever basking as the Ravenhill roar dwindles to a squeak.

Why let the truth get in the way of a good story Aukster.....

Number of points to pick up there

The Great Aukster wrote: Ulster have one Test class 15 Payne - they need two. Hogg is available, plays 15 and is Test class. Are there better options out there for fullback?

Ideally we want a top class 2nd string but surely we should get sufficient players to cover each position before we look for test class cover. Having more than 4 acceptable backrowers would be a good start. By utilizing our NIQ slot to a 15 we restrict our option in a far more urgent place on the park

The Great Aukster wrote:Ulster have one possible Test class 13 in Cave - but in truth he has had plenty of opportunities to demand selection for Ireland and it hasn't happened. If he really was Test class he would have been playing before now.

What more could he have done - he has been the 2nd best 13 in Ireland for a few years now - the problem has been the guys in front of him is a true great of the game.
Come next Monday Cave will be the best 13, on performance, available to Ireland.

The Great Aukster wrote:So what if Payne says he wants the 13 shirt - players have been equally criticised in the past for being unambitious. He has a track record at 13 in SR and Ulster should be delighted that he wants to play there.

No problem in Payne wanting to play 13 but he should only get the shirt when he has proved himself on the field - it should not be handed to him on a plate.

The Great Aukster wrote: Of course Ulster could populate the team with Faloons, Whittens, Andresses and keep the McKinneys and McIlwaines to have good honest Ulster stock who wouldn't say boo to a goose and stay forever basking as the Ravenhill roar dwindles to a squeak.  

Well what we want to do is improve the quality of players coming through but if you are saying which you would prefer being Dragons standard with 12 Ulstermen or Saracens standard with 12 foreigners I'll take Dragons thanks

The Great Aukster wrote:Far too much angst, hand wringing and half truths as usual.

Humphreys wants TWO teams of Test class players. The guys who have been released are either past Test class or will never become it.

Ulster have one Test class 15 Payne - they need two. Hogg is available, plays 15 and is Test class. Are there better options out there for fullback?

Ulster have one possible Test class 13 in Cave - but in truth he has had plenty of opportunities to demand selection for Ireland and it hasn't happened. If he really was Test class he would have been playing before now. There are plenty of Ulster fans love him for who he is and what he brings but realise that he is just shy of being the top player that Ulster need there.

So what if Payne says he wants the 13 shirt - players have been equally criticised in the past for being unambitious. He has a track record at 13 in SR and Ulster should be delighted that he wants to play there. If he started on insisting on a birthday cake then certainly hang him from one of the floodlights but showing ambition is something Ulster need a whole lot more of.

Of course Ulster could populate the team with Faloons, Whittens, Andresses and keep the McKinneys and McIlwaines to have good honest Ulster stock who wouldn't say boo to a goose and stay forever basking as the Ravenhill roar dwindles to a squeak.

Is our need for a Test class 15 greater than our need to strengthen the back row? I don't think so, unless Payne is going to 13. Do we need Payne at 13? I don't think so. Would Payne moving to 13 strengthen the current squad? I doubt it, if it means we lose Cave, even if Hogg comes in at fullback.

Why do people keep mentioning losing Cave if Payne plays 13?

Has Cave actually voiced his discontent at his situation? Do people knows this for a fact?

The Great Aukster wrote:Of course Ulster could populate the team with Faloons, Whittens, Andresses and keep the McKinneys and McIlwaines to have good honest Ulster stock who wouldn't say boo to a goose and stay forever basking as the Ravenhill roar dwindles to a squeak.

Sorry Aukster, but thats nonsense. No-one is saying that those kinds of players are good enough to be first choice. Still better to have them than let them go and be replaced with... nobody. To be fair, there is only one player you list there who I actually would want back but Faloon would be great for our squad considering we only have one open side signed up. Hopefully we get someone as good or better in but thats far from a given.

As for Cave, test class is neither here nor there. The question is, is he good enough to play at the top level of European club rugby and the answer is yes. Has he proved he is good enough to be our first choice 13? Again yes.

You don't address the main issue; while we may want a test class player in every position, we only have a limited number of NIQ spots. We have a first choice back line of Trimble, Marshall, Cave, Bowe, Payne. Test class players in every positions. Olding can cover 12, 13, 15. McCloskey covers 12. Gilroy covers 11, 14, 15. Allen covers 11, 14, 13. I'd like another back in myself, but the cover while not perfect is much better than our cover elsewhere. There are at least a couple of test class players backing up. Cover is especially strong in the midfield. If Cave isn't good enough for us there (and I think he is) why not mould Olding into that position, the most naturally gifted player we have? Or put Marshall at 13 and Olding at 12?

We have much more pressing issues in the back row where Diack, Wilson, Williams and Henry must cover 3 positions by themselves. We desperately need a couple of signings, more than we need another back. We have one NIQ slot left. Henry is the only one of those guys at test standard or anywhere near it.

Thinking that NIQ spot should go to the area where we have least cover and we shouldn't be moving a key player to the area where we have the most cover and bringing in an NIQ to replace him is more common sense than hand-wringing or angst.

Also a bit of realism. The aspiration may be to have two teams of test standard, but the reality is still quite far off and most of our squad must come from homegrown players. It remains a long-term goal not a short-term reality we can realise by the start of next season. Nevertheless I don't understand how this justifies us going after another test class back when we have top class players right across the three-quarter line and only one back row player who is test standard.

rodders wrote:Why do people keep mentioning losing Cave if Payne plays 13?

Has Cave actually voiced his discontent at his situation? Do people knows this for a fact?

Do I know this as a fact - NO.
Do I know someone close enough to him to be almost certain it is fact - YES

If his prospect of playing for Ireland are gone and he is not first choice at Ulster he will seek as good as a contract as he can get elsewhere.
There are a few English and French clubs who would be interested - in fact a French club made an enquiry last year I believe.

rodders wrote:Why do people keep mentioning losing Cave if Payne plays 13?

Has Cave actually voiced his discontent at his situation? Do people knows this for a fact?

The question is would Payne be better than Cave at 13? Although in time he could be, he hasn't shown that he is just yet. So why should he be ahead of Cave? IRFU? Anscombe? or just that he wants to play there? Maybe all three, methinks.
Of course Cave wouldn't be happy being pushed to bench to make way for Payne. No player would be happy in that situation. Anyway, why would he voice discontent when nothing, as yet, has happened?

The issue I have with Cave is that at the critical level in knockout Heineken rugby I don't think he offers enough going forward. Defensively he is superb and you couldn't ask him to give more but we don't pose enough threat.

I think if we put Olding in there with Marshall (in either position) it would offer a lot more. Payne possibly too although I agree he should have to prove himself in the shirt

Munchkin wrote:

rodders wrote:Why do people keep mentioning losing Cave if Payne plays 13?

Has Cave actually voiced his discontent at his situation? Do people knows this for a fact?

The question is would Payne be better than Cave at 13? Although in time he could be, he hasn't shown that he is just yet. So why should he be ahead of Cave? IRFU? Anscombe? or just that he wants to play there? Maybe all three, methinks.
Of course Cave wouldn't be happy being pushed to bench to make way for Payne. No player would be happy in that situation. Anyway, why would he voice discontent when nothing, as yet, has happened?

Well I personally believe that Payne is a better 13 than Cave having watched them both. I wouldn't see many super rugby teams calling for him. He's a decent player but nowhere near as good as some people here are making out. That's subjective of course.

Second point is Cave hasn't been pushed to the bench he was starting last weekend.

To be honest, I think it's worse if Cave starts at 12. If he loses out long term, fair enough, but we have Olding, Marshall and McCloskey. We don't need to shift Cave inside. He's 13 or bust.

McCloskey looks like a promising squad player and Marshall and Olding could both be test standard.

Notch wrote:To be honest, I think it's worse if Cave starts at 12. If he loses out long term, fair enough, but we have Olding, Marshall and McCloskey. We don't need to shift Cave inside. He's 13 or bust.

We don't need to do anything, we can just keep picking the same side and getting the same results or we can try different combinations in the hope it strengthens the side.

We haven't won anything with Cave at 13 unless I am mistaken, so I wouldn't overstate his hold and entitlement on the outside centre position.

rodders wrote:

Notch wrote:To be honest, I think it's worse if Cave starts at 12. If he loses out long term, fair enough, but we have Olding, Marshall and McCloskey. We don't need to shift Cave inside. He's 13 or bust.

We don't need to do anything, we can just keep picking the same side and getting the same results or we can try different combinations in the hope it strengthens the side.

We haven't won anything with Cave at 13 unless I am mistaken, so I wouldn't overstate his hold and entitlement on the outside centre position.

  

We've won nothing with Pienaar at 9 either maybe we should give Marshall another crack there  

He's entitled until someone plays better - no one has yet.
That should be the only criteria the rest is bunk

My concern with Payne is his tackling is a bit iffy - will be exposed at International lelve.
At 15 you can get away with being an average tackler - Kearney has for years - but at 13 you will be cruelly exposed.

Also bit much blaming him for the lack of trophys - last time I looked he was not the one who reduced us to 14 men in 2 key games

geoff998rugby wrote:He's entitled until someone plays better - no one has yet.
That should be the only criteria the rest is bunk

My concern with Payne is his tackling is a bit iffy - will be exposed at International lelve.
At 15 you can get away with being an average tackler - Kearney has for years - but at 13 you will be cruelly exposed.  

Also bit much blaming him for the lack of trophys - last time I looked he was not the one who reduced us to 14 men in 2 key games

Thats harsh on Kearney, he's upped his tackling recently....to around the head area  

marty2086 wrote:

rodders wrote:

Notch wrote:To be honest, I think it's worse if Cave starts at 12. If he loses out long term, fair enough, but we have Olding, Marshall and McCloskey. We don't need to shift Cave inside. He's 13 or bust.

We don't need to do anything, we can just keep picking the same side and getting the same results or we can try different combinations in the hope it strengthens the side.

We haven't won anything with Cave at 13 unless I am mistaken, so I wouldn't overstate his hold and entitlement on the outside centre position.

  

We've won nothing with Pienaar at 9 either maybe we should give Marshall another crack there  

Well since you mention it .......

geoff998rugby wrote:
Also bit much blaming him for the lack of trophys - last time I looked he was not the one who reduced us to 14 men in 2 key games

I'm not blaming him. But he's not undroppable either and certainly hasn't performed to a level which would make him guaranteed to start if there are better options, which there are in my opinion.

He's not so hot on defence himself and Goporth left him for dead last weekend on a couple of occasions,

He was left for dead as was Payne because our midfield was retreating because we were being stuffed at the breakdown and the set piece.

No one is undropabble but others have to do better.
If Payne out performs him fair enough - he hasn't yet

David Humphreys has said that Ulster want TWO Test class teams - not me. That is Ulster's aspiration and it is up to him to decide how to achieve it. If it is impossible with the budgetary and IRFU constraints placed upon him then that aspiration is nonsense, and he shouldn't espouse it.

Yet Humphreys only has to look south to see if a province can achieve such a target. Forget the jibes at Leinster for Schmidt bias and just consider the quality of players they have. They have genuinely two Test class players for about half the positions:
Healy/McGrath
Cronin/Strauss
Moore/Ross
SOB/Ruddock
Healy/JMurphy
Reddan/Boss
Kearney/Kirchner

As well as that they have Bent*, Toner, McCarthy, Jennings, Madigan, D'Arcy, Fitzgerald and DKearney, meaning that any team they put out could have say 11 capped players, with the same again off the pitch. That's the sort of critical level that wins trophies because players can be managed much better.

Ulster can probably scrape together about 15 capped players in total for next season and that's not enough to allow players proper rehabilitation and remain competitive in two competitions. Humphreys needs to find quality not just quantity so it is easy to see why he might want Hogg.

The Great Aukster wrote:David Humphreys has said that Ulster want TWO Test class teams - not me. That is Ulster's aspiration and it is up to him to decide how to achieve it. If it is impossible with the budgetary and IRFU constraints placed upon him then that aspiration is nonsense, and he shouldn't espouse it.

Yet Humphreys only has to look south to see if a province can achieve such a target. Forget the jibes at Leinster for Schmidt bias and just consider the quality of players they have. They have genuinely two Test class players for about half the positions:
Healy/McGrath
Cronin/Strauss
Moore/Ross
SOB/Ruddock
Healy/JMurphy
Reddan/Boss
Kearney/Kirchner

As well as that they have Bent*, Toner, McCarthy, Jennings, Madigan, D'Arcy, Fitzgerald and DKearney, meaning that any team they put out could have say 11 capped players, with the same again off the pitch. That's the sort of critical level that wins trophies because players can be managed much better.

Ulster can probably scrape together about 15 capped players in total for next season and that's not enough to allow players proper rehabilitation and remain competitive in two competitions. Humphreys needs to find quality not just quantity so it is easy to see why he might want Hogg.

No he should espouse it- I agree with him, its what we should be aiming for. But he can't do it solely by signing players as long as our budget is what it is and the IRFU limitations on doing that are what they are, it'll only come through long term improvements in the Academy. It's a good goal to have but it's a long term goal and whilst Ulster are doing everything they can to improve the Academy these things take time to bear fruit.

It doesn't change the main point; we have quality in the back line already, albeit not the depth we must be aiming for, but we lack quality in the back row even amongst the players who are first choice... and we can only sign one more player who isn't eligible for Ireland. It also doesn't mean that cutting the fat is always a good thing when it comes to homegrown guys who are just good squad players and will never be anything more when we still need somebody to provide cover. Otherwise we wouldn't be signing stopgaps like Ian Humphreys and Dave Ryan to bolster the squad.

Ignoring the question of whether it's the best use of an NIQ - Which do we all honestly think is better? for me it's B.   

Backline A

9) Pienaar
10) Jackson
11) Trimble
12) Marshall
13) Cave
14) Bowe
15) Payne

with a bench of Marshall, iHumph, Gilroy


Backline B

9) Pienaar
10) Jackson
11) Trimble
12) Cave/Marshall
13) Payne
14) Bowe
15) Hogg

with a bench of P Marshall, iHumph, Olding

Well, my back line would have Olding at 12 whoever is at 13 and 15! I don't know. B probably just shades it but I'd go back line A every time if it meant there was an extra quality player in the back row. If Cave is crowbarred into 12 than Backline B is actually weaker than A. It's tough though- for all Hoggs talent I don't see him as being as creative as Payne. He could be brilliant but he needs to be willing to put in other players. He's a strike runner par excellence but if he ttys to do it all himself than A is better. I would still prefer Payne to Hogg at 15. If Payne can be as good at 13 as 15 then B but that hasn't been shown. Basically B has a lot of unknown quantities. I keep changing my mind.

I'm excited about watching whoever lines out for Ulster though. Disagreements over this aside, if Hogg does come full time he'll have my full backing. I may disagree with the decision but it doesn't change my support.

Yep, if Hogg is signed it appears to be a bargain and if it frees up funds to get two decent backrow guys then fairy nuff.

My ideal backline would be

Pienaar
Jackson
Trimble
Marshall
Olding
Bowe
Payne

and thats with the centres interchangeable.

What about Leo Auv'a from Leinster, did I read somewhere that's he is to be released, he is Irish qualified by now as well.

It also throws up questions for what bench we would have?

iHumph is back and we are glad - but i question what is role is.

a) Is he simply going to appear straight in at 10 when jackson is away/injured
b) Is Pienaar now never going to play 10 - and so iHumph is a bench regular?

If the latter, accompanied by the versatility of Hogg/Bowe/Payne in the backline, the likes of Gilroy may not even be making the bench regularly. Olding would be a definite bench spot along if not starting.

Auv'a is an out and out 8 i thought and apparently not that great i dont think.

Clive i would imagine the versatility of Olding, pienaar and at a stretch Marshall would mean we dont necessarily have to bench Humph every game. It will just depend on the opposition.

In recent times since Marshall has been used as a bosh merchant - does anyone else fondly reminisce on Paddy Wallace?? Maybe Olding can get us back to exciting dangerous back play...

Standulstermen wrote:My ideal backline would be

Pienaar
Jackson
Trimble
Marshall
Olding
Bowe
Payne

and thats with the centres interchangeable.

Agree with that

clivemcl wrote:In recent times since Marshall has been used as a bosh merchant - does anyone else fondly reminisce on Paddy Wallace?? Maybe Olding can get us back to exciting dangerous back play...

Always   

You don't know what you've got 'til it's gone! Olding is cut from the same bolt of cloth in terms of vision and footwork.

Olding seems to have the gas and acceleration that paddy lacked though

Yes, it's exciting to see him come through.

Notch wrote:It doesn't change the main point; we have quality in the back line already, albeit not the depth we must be aiming for, but we lack quality in the back row even amongst the players who are first choice... and we can only sign one more player who isn't eligible for Ireland. It also doesn't mean that cutting the fat is always a good thing when it comes to homegrown guys who are just good squad players and will never be anything more when we still need somebody to provide cover. Otherwise we wouldn't be signing stopgaps like Ian Humphreys and Dave Ryan to bolster the squad.

If the Humphreys' aspiration is to have two Test class players for every position then he is failing miserably in the backrow, with only Henry falling into that category. He has been unlucky that Ferris hasn't regained fitness and that Doyle has wanted to go home. Sean Dougall would be the perfect replacement for Doyle but finding anyone akin to Ferris isn't going to be easy. So maybe Humphreys should use his NIQ wildcard on a Ferris replacement, but who knows? Humph may have an IQ brute of a ball carrier lined up and can still go for Hogg. Maybe the IRFU have given him special dispensation for all we know.

As has already been mentioned, it is hard to attract real quality in the year before a RWC, so maybe if Hogg can be signed that would be a bonus rather than a millstone.

Maybe so, My opinion on the Hogg signing (if it happens) will be entirely contingent on who else signs elsewhere really! Let's wait and see.

Notch wrote:Maybe so, My opinion on the Hogg signing (if it happens) will be entirely contingent on who else signs elsewhere really! Let's wait and see.

Its not either or. There aren't top quality players floating around so you can't turn your nose up those who want to join.

Ulster isn't as desirable location for top overseas players as you think - we were lucky with the players we managed to attract over the past few years.

I don't think we will be allowed an NIE backrower given that we have Williams already but as Aukster said we might be allowed special dispensation on the basis Ferris has to retire (is that confirmed). Either way it has nothing to do with Hogg coming in.

I also think the back row situation isn't as bleak as it looks if we consider Henderson mainly a 6. That gives a the following options:

6 Henderson, Diack, Wilson
7 Henry, Diack, McComish
8 Williams, Wilson

Therefore whoever we sign probably needs to be a versatile squad man rather than a big name.

...maybe Pedre back on a 1 year deal.....

Rodders ....  

What did I say??   

I wasn't suggesting it would be a big name. Brendan O'Connor has been mentioned- not a big name, but would be good. Hopefully Henderson will stay at lock where he is best.

rodders wrote:What did I say??   

Oh sh*t sorry stand. Forget I said anything. Man down buy a 6!.... is Kaino still keen to join us?

I didn't say anything about a big-name either. I said it depends on who else we sign, if we get a few other good Irish qualified back rowers who can fill in the gaps then fine. If we can't we should look to get an NIQ. Doesn't mean its a test All Black or Springbok. Just a decent player.

Encouraging news on the back row front;

http://thefrontrowunion.com/2014/05/ulster-back-row-butterworth-on-development-contract/

It doesn't matter who we sign, pretty soon we'll be out of the EU and playing in the third division of a Mark Mcafferty-BT-Tea Party run American anglo-saffer comp with hybrid NFL rules with Payne and Cave arguing over who plays inside and outside quarter-back, whilst the rest of Europe fall behind a new Soviet Iron curtain a are forced into gymnastics and strong man competitions instead by Putin.

Love sacks to it all anyway.

Some reports in this morning's media about the Ulster- Afoa contract situation Ulster have issue this statement about them.

'Contrary to reports in this morning’s media, Ulster Rugby would like to clarify that at no point were there any discussions with John Afoa or his representatives about extending his contract to allow him to remain with the Province. Due to his personal circumstances, it was understood that he would be seeking a return New Zealand to be with his family.

While a world class player when fit and available, Ulster Rugby’s intention has always been to replace Afoa with a top-class tighthead prop who could ultimately play for Ireland. That has been achieved through the signing of project-player Wiehahn Herbst.

In December it was announced that he had signed a contract with Gloucester and Ulster Rugby would like to wish him well in the next chapter of his career.'

Do you have a link to the reports Neil?

Afoa interview here;

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/rugby/regrets-yes-ive-a-few-admits-afoa-30296695.html

He's claiming Humphreys offered him another contract with more of the same. Ulster are saying that's not true. Someone isn't telling the truth but it definitely sounds like him leaving is the best for both parties.

I don't know what he gains from talking to the media on his way out the door. Seems like he's taking a parting shot at Ulster which is bizarre given the latitude they've given him. I'm glad we have Herbst coming in instead, it's just a shame he wasn't able to settle as his first season was very good.

He's right about Paddy McAllister but I hope that his move is to get some fitness back and he will return to Ulster one day.

Seems there will be no love lost between either Afoa or Ulster then. I'm certainly not as down on him as a lot of our fans but having a TH that's here all year round will be massive

Doesn't make sense though. Ulster bent over backwards to keep him happy- they probably compromised too much on his time away from the squad. No chance he would be allowed to have the schedule he had at a big French or English club. Why go to the media on his way out and cause a mess for the club?

That Ulster statement practically says 'we're happy enough to see the back of him'

It's a pity it went sour. For all concerned he should have been let go after the first year when his family didn't settle.

I don't know who thought it would be sustainable for him to be travelling back and forth to NZ regularly throughout the season. It was nonsensical to even consider it and all parties need their head bashed for that one.

rodders wrote:I don't know who thought it would be sustainable for him to be travelling back and forth to NZ regularly throughout the season. It was nonsensical to even consider it and all parties need their head bashed for that one.

You're not wrong there.