Ulster 2014/2015

First topic message reminder :

Details of pre-season games to confirmed- we take on Exeter Chiefs at Ravenhill on Friday the 22nd August and then travel to Donnybrook to face Leinster on Friday the 29th August. On the transfer front, it seems like our business for the year is concluded. Second row looks strong and our back line is stronger than ever, but there are concerns about our depth in the front row and back row of the pack. A lot depends on Wiehahn Herbst turning out to be a hit and Chris Henry staying fit- our decision to spend a valuable NIQ spot on Louis Ludik and Sean Doyles departure leaves us exposed at open side with two new, extremely untested players in Reidy and Butterworth vying to be Henrys understudy. Rob Herring is another player who needs to avoid injury at all costs. Niall Annett has been allowed to leave along with Brady in recent seasons and the 3rd choice hooker is not obvious. With seedings in Europe determined by league performance, Ulster may very well rue their lack of depth in the forward pack come May.

Players Out
Johann Muller (retired), Paddy Wallace (retired), Stephen Ferris (retired), Chris Cochrane (retired), Chris Farrell (Grenoble), Niall Annett (Worcester), John Afoa (Gloucester), Tom Court (London Irish), James McKinney (Rotherham), David McIlwaine (Rotherham), Paddy McAllister (Aurillac), Sean Doyle (ACT Brumbies), Adam Macklin (Rotherham), Ian Porter (Connacht)

Players In
Franco van der Merwe (Golden Lions), Louis Ludik (Agen), Wiehahn Herbst (Natal Sharks), Ruaidhrí Murphy (ACT Brumbies), Dave Ryan (Zebre), Ian Humphreys (London Irish), Charlie Butterworth (Lansdowne), Sean Reidy (Counties Manukau)

Ulster don't do turbulent off seasons but if we did...

We've also been rocked with the seismic revelation David Humphreys is leaving the province- indeed has already left- for Gloucester. Anscombe was slated to be seeing out the last year of his contract before being quietly let go but the Humphreys bombshell left him as the odd man out, and he's been pushed out the door. The decision was partly because he was hired to work under a Director of Rugby and Ulster are looking for someone with more experience in the market to take on Humphreys role in addition to the coaching responsibilities. As usual, the rumour mill is on overdrive and opinions are polarised- but this is Ulster Rugby after all. Les Kiss is our interim Director of Rugby and it seems Allen Clarke is filling the role of forwards coach in the short term. More changes or appointments could be forthcoming.

If all that wasn't enough we've been dealt a real group of death in the new Champions Cup- double-winners Toulon will brave the Ravenhill roar along with old friends Leicester Tigers and old foes the Scarlets. All in all, this team should be capable of securing a Top 4 finish at the very least in the Pro12 and we need to target the top two, our prospects in Europe look more occluded- it might come down to best runners-up and our pool promises to be tight and competitive.

Opening fixtures

F; Exeter Chiefs (H)
F; Leinster (A)

Pro12; Scarlets (A)
Pro12; Zebre (H)
Pro12; Cardiff Blues (A)
Pro12; Zebre (A)
Pro12; Edinburgh (H)

Mrs Herbst seemed very pleased to be moving to Ulster, and it's more than possible that was based on insights provided by the Muller's, and the Pienaar's.

clivemcl wrote:What were Mrs Afoa's interests? Areas we could potentially work on as a country?   

Sun bathing?

rodders wrote:

clivemcl wrote:What were Mrs Afoa's interests? Areas we could potentially work on as a country?   

Sun bathing?

Maybe we should ask Gloucester for some tips on culture and tourism  

I heard it was the Cheese Rolling that sealed it.

geoff998rugby wrote:My understanding of the Ludik/Hogg situation is that
Ludik wanted too much
Hogg provisional agreed a deal for a set salary.
Saracens (and maybe others) are offering/will offer more - we are not prepared to go any higher for a player missing in the International window.

We are cutting down on our top end salary bill such that next year only 1 player, who is not on a Central Contract, will be above the 200,000 Euro mark.
I think most can work out who that is

Geoff - very interesting, as always.

Any idea why there is an increased focus on reducing wage roll this off-season? I had read somewhere that Ulster's finances were in pretty good shape (especially compared to other Irish provinces). Surely there is an anticipation of higher revenues generated by the new stadium?

Also, doesn't the loss of Muller, Afoa, Court & others more than compensate (in salary costs) for the addition of van der Merwe, Herbst, Murphy, Humphreys, etc.?

There is a risk that any reduction in quality of the on-the-field 'product' could lead to a reduction in attendance/TV audience and subsequently impact financial performance.

UlsterinKildare wrote:
Any idea why there is an increased focus on reducing wage roll this off-season? I had read somewhere that Ulster's finances were in pretty good shape (especially compared to other Irish provinces). Surely there is an anticipation of higher revenues generated by the new stadium?

Also, doesn't the loss of Muller, Afoa, Court & others more than compensate (in salary costs) for the addition of van der Merwe, Herbst, Murphy, Humphreys, etc.?

There is a risk that any reduction in quality of the on-the-field 'product' could lead to a reduction in attendance/TV audience and subsequently impact financial performance.

Discussed further back on the thread that the IRFU are cutting back on the wages for NIQs and the provinces have to cut their cloth accordingly.

They aren't in great shape financially after failing to sell the 10 year Aviva tickets last year and also they want the provinces to play IQ players where possible.

Saw someone say that IF we sign Hogg it won't be announced until after Glasgows season finishes which if true, is fair enough.

rodders wrote:

UlsterinKildare wrote:
Any idea why there is an increased focus on reducing wage roll this off-season? I had read somewhere that Ulster's finances were in pretty good shape (especially compared to other Irish provinces). Surely there is an anticipation of higher revenues generated by the new stadium?

Also, doesn't the loss of Muller, Afoa, Court & others more than compensate (in salary costs) for the addition of van der Merwe, Herbst, Murphy, Humphreys, etc.?

There is a risk that any reduction in quality of the on-the-field 'product' could lead to a reduction in attendance/TV audience and subsequently impact financial performance.

Discussed further back on the thread that the IRFU are cutting back on the wages for NIQs and the provinces have to cut their cloth accordingly.

They aren't in great shape financially after failing to sell the 10 year Aviva tickets last year and also they want the provinces to play IQ players where possible.

The Aviva has sold out for every match so far, so there is no big loss there. Then the IRFU made a killing with Puma pulling out. No Sexton last year and no BOD next year.

Accounts should be out shortly, so we should know. But I find it interesting that the IRFU keep reserves of about 40m, while the WRU critics think they are hoarding money by keeping 11m in reserve.

UlsterinKildare wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:My understanding of the Ludik/Hogg situation is that
Ludik wanted too much
Hogg provisional agreed a deal for a set salary.
Saracens (and maybe others) are offering/will offer more - we are not prepared to go any higher for a player missing in the International window.

We are cutting down on our top end salary bill such that next year only 1 player, who is not on a Central Contract, will be above the 200,000 Euro mark.
I think most can work out who that is

Geoff - very interesting, as always.

Any idea why there is an increased focus on reducing wage roll this off-season? I had read somewhere that Ulster's finances were in pretty good shape (especially compared to other Irish provinces). Surely there is an anticipation of higher revenues generated by the new stadium?

Also, doesn't the loss of Muller, Afoa, Court & others more than compensate (in salary costs) for the addition of van der Merwe, Herbst, Murphy, Humphreys, etc.?

There is a risk that any reduction in quality of the on-the-field 'product' could lead to a reduction in attendance/TV audience and subsequently impact financial performance.

I would say a combination of
a) eventually expanding the squad, ie a larger amount of smaller contracts
b) expecting our younger stars to be looking better salaries in the next few years

2 further reasons we are cutting NIQ cost (over and above what Clive said)

1 - We (Ulster) got a one of boost to improve standards (Botha, Afoa, Pienaer, Muller, Payne)
    This was after a number of years where we got less than Munster and Leinster  
    because IRFU did not trust the pre Logan CEO.
2 - It is not necessarily an overall cut in salaries - less for NIQ means more for IQ.
    The IRFU are determined to retain Ireland top players in Ireland and maybe get
    some away now back. Wilson and Bowe are good examples of that at Ulster.

For this to work the greater movement of players between provinces would be a big help.

Notch wrote:Saw someone say that IF we sign Hogg it won't be announced until after Glasgows season finishes which if true, is fair enough.

That actually makes sense.

Just realized there is one player who is not on a central contract and is almost certaintly on more than the 200,000 euro bracket.

Chris Henry - if so no more than he deserves

You guys do know the other one is Pienaer and not McComb right

Wilson isn't centrally contracted.

One of the main reasons for the purse tightening is the significant increase of spending on Connacht. The IRFU have been getting results from their academy so they have warranted a re-direction, and especially now that the other three provinces have significant stadia to draw direct revenues.

The Great Aukster wrote:Wilson isn't centrally contracted.

He is not and I have just realised his contract was 3 not 2 years.
So for 1 more year he will be above the 200,000 as well
It is my understanding that will accepted a drop to a lower salary for the remainder of his time with us given he will be 34 at the start of the 2015-16 season

So use to contract being 2 years, it is my default assumption - these days 3 year contract are becoming increasingly common - made the same mistake with respect to Williams

Well the rumours are rife re Ludik and Hogg.

Basically talk of Ludik lowering his salary demands now Agen have not got promoted.

Is Hogg going to Ulster, is he going elsewhere, is he staying at Glasgow
I'd said all three are equally possible

Are Ulster getting Ludik, are Ulster getting Hogg, are Ulster getting nobody
I'd say all three are equally possible

The whole thing seems to be in a state of flux and because the club have tighten up re rumours I suspect thir is a lot of gues work and specualtion going on.

On Hogg I am guessing any announcement will only come after the Pro12 play off

From the IrishTimes:

Stuart Hogg excluded from Warriors squad for Pro12 final
Scottish fullback set to leave Glasgow with Ulster a likely destination



Wed, May 28, 2014, 08:37

Stuart Hogg will not play any part in Saturday’s Pro12 final at the RDS. The Scotland fullback has been excluded from Gregor Townsend’s squad as he actively seeks to leave the Glasgow Warriors.
Ulster could be his next club if contractual complications can be resolved. The highly-regarded 21-year-old has another year to run on his Scottish Rugby Union deal so compensation is required.
Hogg would slot into Ulster’s back three next season with Jared Payne’s expected switch to outside centre (the province categorically dismissed rumours of Payne moving to Leinster as Brian O’Driscoll’s replacement).
Hogg travelled to Belfast in April for talks with director of rugby David Humphreys and head coach Mark Anscombe. He has family links in the city but Saracens are also believed to be interested as are several French clubs.
“I don’t know him too well, great player, seems like a good lad, but there is something going on there behind the scenes,” said Rob Kearney of his fellow British and Irish Lions tourist.
“That’s a huge surprise,” said Kearney when it was suggested Hogg would not play on Saturday. “He is not just one of Glasgow’s best players, he is one of Scotland’s best players. There is a reason for it and I suppose you lads will find out sooner or later.”
Since the European game against Toulon in January, Hogg has only featured twice for Glasgow. Granted, he started all of Scotland’s Six Nations ties but the thrashing of Zebre on May 10th, when he crossed for two tries, now looks like his last in the Warriors jersey.....

And what will Ulster do if they get nobody? Payne back to 15, but time against us to sign another quality import?

You know what I always say in these situations.... there's no smoke without fire and you can't start a fire without a spark, this gun's for hire even if we're just dancing in the dark,

Only two games since January? Was he injured at all?

Thats strange, and doesn't sound good.

Nor does the speculation on what seemed like a team-mate desperately trying to forbid him a hat-trick.

But regardless of that, lets take a moment to remind ourselves about the talent we are potentially signing...

Younger that Jackson, Luke, Henderson, Warwick, ALlen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaCyCpIifqE

What's more - It is possible that he is looking a new home. Its not like Bowe leaving Ulster. It appears that his bridges with Glasgow are burning.

There is a chance he could build a good relationship with Ulster, and renew contracts if all goes well.

I know he may be missing during international windows, but at least the other provinces wouldn't be able to say we are an average team bolstered by good SH players. Theres something to be said for keeping it within the league.

The other forum had someone reporting that Hogg had a deposit on a house in Belfast. I can't tell whether this is some kind of 'in joke' with that forum or that a deposit was actually paid. Said deposit has only recently been retracted. This may be because he is going elsewhere or he found a better house. It could also be a meaningless pile of drivel but my reporting is accurate

Clive I have no idea what his temperament is like, but he burst onto the scene unusually early and was given munificent praise from all and sundry at an age where the ego is rather prone to bloat so if there have been issues they are understandable.

Humphreys has always said that the character of the player comes first and he's got it spot on in the past with Terblanche, Wannenburg, Muller, Pienaar etc. Given I admit I have no information on Hoggs temperament I hope he's done the same if Hogg does sign for us, and any issues are purely exaggerated. It's always worrying when a player seems to be leaving his previous club under a cloud.

Just posted on the other thread about this. I think that there's a lot of scuttlebutt about Hogg and from the people I know that know him, pretty much all of it is garbage.

First thing's first - yes, the reason for being out of the team is injury. He hyperextended (although I don't think actually tore) his hamstring against Toulon in January and couldn't play until the Treviso game on 2 May. That was coming to the end of the season and he knew he had to impress because Peter Murchie was in great form. In the following game against Zebre, he scored two and would have got a third but for Niko beating him to a bouncing ball (the famous 'my try, leave it' moment):


Far too much was made of that - the players actually found it funny. This was Hogg and Niko the next day at the Rabo Awards:

You be the judge as to whether there is a deep seated, secret animosity there.  

He was a pro player at 18, Scotland cap at 19 and a B&I Lion at 21. He has 4 Scotland tries in in 20 caps (would have been 5 but for the one incorrectly chalked off), can play full back, outside centre and even 10 at a push and is a credible goalkicking option. Everyone I know who has met him (including a friend who played at U20 and Scotland A with him) found no ego, just a pleasant and quite shy teenager who loved rugby. Just thought I would mention it.

Sold! We'll take him!   

The Clive stamp of approval! After that, there's no doubt about it.

He's going to Saracens

clivemcl wrote:Sold! We'll take him!   

 

Cave has his best chance ever by the looks of it with Henshaw out of the tour. Or has Schmidt already been given the memo he is now a 12??

If Schmidt continues to force Cave into the 12 position then I will only assume his name is simply rhyming slang for what he really is. It's time for our Darren to shine I hope, show what he really can do in the green shirt.

I see your man Crozier is reporting the ongoing Stuart Hogg story. Took his time didn't he or does he just avoid all these forums and rumour mills because we aren't nice about him

I was just watching that Hogg tribute (imagine a tribute when you're barely out of the nappies) and you do tend to forget the pace the guy has. Also the fact that he can play fullback, centre, outhalf and wing.

As Clive said, we'll take him.

Cave will surely not play at 12 ahead of Marshall when he's the only guy who regularly plays 13 for his province on tour.

If Cave doesn't play 13 on this tour he wil leave next summer

It is an absolute certainty he will.

Over 8500 season tickets sold by Ulster for next year- not that long ago we were lucky if we were getting that per week total.

Yep a remarkable turn around.

No reason we cant average 15000 per Pro12 game next year.

On a side note anyone brought the 100 pound members bar passes.
For what you get seem a total rip off - hearing the take up has been very low.
That what you get for taking the urine

It's just an unnecessary luxury Geoff isn't it. With the amount of bars in the place getting a pint shouldn't be that difficult and even if it you're a lazy bollix like me you can wave down the Heineken lads and buy a bottle.

As well as that the bars are great for staying on in after the game

Not a chance. I go to watch rugby, not to drink! They are taking the pee with the cost of the bars relative to the service/quality. I'm all for it if it helps Ulster Rugby as a business but they wouldn't be getting my dollah...

Basically a few seats and a layout the same as down below - a joke.

Probably covered the breeze block but otherwise exactly the same as what you get for free !

Also works out at nearly 7 pounds extra a match assuming you go to every game

If I ever get back to Ravers I will as always bring a little snifter in my hip flask.
I don't think I ever attended a game there and didn't witness the same people spending the duration of the game rotating between the bar and the WCs with very little time to take in any rugby. It always confounded me but then again that isn't so difficult.

It is however fantastic to see Ulster the brand being so successful and while the sun shines lets make hay.

Notch wrote:Not a chance. I go to watch rugby, not to drink! They are taking the pee with the cost of the bars relative to the service/quality. I'm all for it if it helps Ulster Rugby as a business but they wouldn't be getting my dollah...

I would agree regarding the service. I'm not sure what the licensing says on it but we stayed about after the game against Leinster (to look at the new bar) and they close them with roughly 100 people still looking drink. Instead of just keeping a few people on to serve I thought it was poor but it could be down to the laws or what license they have.

The one thing which I think has noticeably gone downhill is the taxi service. Since fonacab took it over it has got terrible. I was looking one after the Leinster game (approx 90 mins after the match finished) and the queue was ridiculous. I wonder do the drivers not like sitting at ravers.

Anyway it's not a massive deal for me it's just I noticed it being there much later than usual

The bars are allowed to stay open 90 mins after the end of the game - that is the licence.

As I was able to prove against Leinster if you watch the game till half time their is insufficient time to go to the toilet and get a fresh pint. - Gave up on the pint. That simply isn't good enough.
Also have to say the Murphy's was disgusting.
The club have received a lot of complaints regarding the poor service.

We have got into the habit of drinking in the Ormeau road beforehand and turning up 5 to 10 mins before kick off.
I think I will do the same as Pete - in my case a couple of small wines one for each half and not even attempt to use the bars till after the end of the game,

Also for taxis you can normally get one from the Ormeau Road and even if there aren't a couple idling over there there's a decent chance your taxi will have arrived by the time you get there if you phone when leaving the ground.

Yep Taxis from the Errigle.
Tempted to walk to the Ormeau Raod for any post match pint and give up on the bars altogether.

I don't find the Heineken too bad but I wouldn't touch Murphys truth be told.

The service for what is essentially just passing something over a counter is poor. I wouldn't go to the bar at half time. No chance

Good Murphys is ok but what Ulster serve is not good Murphys far from it

rodders wrote:I have two points:

Firstly I think people are jumping to conclusions about Hogg as a person. .

Unfortunately some rumour she is being a bit of a prat re the contract negotiations.
If he pushes too hard Humphreys is the type of man who could just get up walk out saying
'I've had enough of this - the deals off!'

Ludik is almost certaintly dead in the water - initally wanted more than Ulster were prepared to pay.
Agen didn't get promoted - he came back lowering his demands - we said we are talking to someone else now.
When Hogg started to play awkward, and SRU demanded compensation we were not prepared to pay, we went back and said are you still interested.
He said no - I think.

We could end up with no one you know

This would make a good soap opera

MrsP wrote:Evening all.

I read the Afoa interview and I don't see any slagging off of UR or anything like it.

I have no idea why Mrs Afoa did not settle in Belfast but I do know the family suffered several tragic losses this year. Maybe she needed to be in NZ to help the wider family at a really difficult time? Maybe now that has changed?

Who know but I think both Afoa and UR really tried to make a very difficult situation work. I have no ill feeling towards JA at all.

The story I was told (by someone who has a relative in the Ulster squad), was that Big John had been a bit of a naughty boy and his wife essentially gave him an ultimatum: leave NI and "the other woman" or she leaves him. Could just be changing room gossip, but it would go some way to explaining why his wife and in turn he was so unsettled here.

Well according to the one guy on the other forum who knows what he is talking about Ludik may not yet be quite dead.

Are Ulster playing one off against the other ??

geoff998rugby wrote:Well according to the one guy on the other forum who knows what he is talking about Ludik may not yet be quite dead.

Are Ulster playing one off against the other ??

http://www.ulsterrugby.com/News/LatestNews/TabId/149/ArtMID/793/ArticleID/1543/Louis-Ludik-to-join-Ulster-Rugby-.aspx

ahead of you there geoff, looks like you need have a word with your sources its a done deal

Louis, as our final Non Irish Eligible signing for 2014/15 season, will add quality and provide experience to our young backline

From the wording of that, it would seem theres at least one more signing to come