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NZ Herald says Wales vetoed change in Northern season

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NZ Herald says Wales vetoed change in Northern season Empty NZ Herald says Wales vetoed change in Northern season

Post by Rugby Fan Sun 25 May 2014, 2:30 pm

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11261262

Super Rugby's dreaded June hiatus won't be a thing of the past as plans to shift the international window to July have been rejected by the Six Nations...There was some support for the idea among the Six Nations - England and France are understood to have seen the value in shifting...But despite some nations seeing the sense in the proposal, the Six Nations vote together on these issues and it was scuppered when Wales voted against it.

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Post by asoreleftshoulder Sun 25 May 2014, 2:51 pm

I can't see how Wales could be the only country to veto that.For the NH teams to play internationals in July our players would either be stuck with no preseason or a really short break.The domestic comps finish in May,most teams get 4 weeks off so that's June gone and the a proper preseason would be 4 weeks which means July is gone.
The earliest we could play internationals is the last week of July running into August,would that suit the SH teams?

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Post by wayne Sun 25 May 2014, 5:22 pm

asoreleftshoulder wrote:I can't see how Wales could be the only country to veto that.For the NH teams to play internationals in July our players would either be stuck with no preseason or a really short break.The domestic comps finish in May,most teams get 4 weeks off so that's June gone and the a proper preseason would be 4 weeks which means July is gone.
The earliest we could play internationals is the last week of July running into August,would that suit the SH teams?
I'm with you on this ASLS, the article also said it would be of more advantage to the SH,nothing unusual there then, a proper restructuring of the season on a Global scale would be fantastic, I think there was a topic on here, or on 606V1, that had some good proposals, we need another go at this.

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Post by HammerofThunor Sun 25 May 2014, 5:59 pm

You could start the NH season a month later, finish a month later.

Edit: or split the season in two and have a month off after Christmas during winter. Not sure what's better for the players, one long break or two shorter ones.

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Post by Notch Sun 25 May 2014, 6:35 pm

I think the best thing to do would be exactly what Hammer said, shift the whole season forward a month.
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Post by asoreleftshoulder Sun 25 May 2014, 6:46 pm

Notch wrote:I think the best thing to do would be exactly what Hammer said, shift the whole season forward a month.

I'm not sure where I heard this but I think it was on a thread discussing a change of global season.Someone said that the French teams won't agree to that as it gets too hot and the ground too hard in the south of France in June..I have no idea if that's true or not but I'd agree it would be a good move if to play the end of the season in June for the British and Irish teams at least.

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Post by Notch Sun 25 May 2014, 6:54 pm

No, it's too important that the French and Italian sides are on the same calendar. Hmm.
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Post by Rugby Fan Sun 25 May 2014, 7:16 pm

Sorry, I assumed everyone already knew that the proposal involved the North starting the season a month later. It's been on the table since July last year.

I posted this article since the Herald seems very sure Welsh opposition scuppered the idea and I'm curious why that would be.

Article in Stuff suggests only England were interested

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/10081499/Stubborn-Six-Nations-bosses-risk-player-strike

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Post by doctor_grey Sun 25 May 2014, 10:17 pm

I don't think Wales alone were the only ones to blow up this proposal.  Bruce Craig is the latest club owner to propose a change to the Rugby calendar by moving the start and end of the NH season back one month.  But however we look at it, these proposals really only benefit the SH teams:
NZ Herald, Gregor Paul wrote:If tests could be played in July, Super Rugby would start and end without interruption and players would be afforded two weeks off before playing for the All Blacks.
Sounds nice, except that in the NH the club season is already interrupted twice for Internationals, in November and February-March, then ends with more Internationals.  

We need a rational and intelligent global calendar, not one which favours one group or another.  And one which puts player welfare at the top of the priority list. This ain't it.

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Post by Rugby Fan Sun 25 May 2014, 11:11 pm

It is certainly true that Premiership Rugby was interested in the idea when it was proposed back in July but that doesn't necessarily translate to English support at the IRB.

Steve Tew has all but accused the Six Nations of bad faith towards the move. I can only guess that he feels the Six Nations know they will benefit but have vetoed the move because, overall, it is much more beneficial for SANZAR.


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Post by aucklandlaurie Mon 26 May 2014, 12:05 am


This discussion remind me of those arguements in the early 80s, when the Southern Hemisphere delegates tried to get the idea of a World Cup across the line at the IRB.

The main reason why the Northern Hemisphere countries were against it was because they believed that a World Cup would remove the dominant power from the home nations and the Southern Hemisphere would take over rugby.

My suggestion would be for the Southern Hemisphere countries to persuade the IRB to form a commitee to treat this issue as a project with an Englishman as chairman, then at least the arguements, can be properly argued.

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Post by Taylorman Mon 26 May 2014, 12:16 am

If I had my way I'd move the SH rugby season to match the NH- play September through to June or thereabouts and chuck cricket on the winter bogs for a change to see how they like it....then watch our game speed up!

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Post by Pot Hale Mon 26 May 2014, 4:29 am

Rugby Fan wrote:http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11261262

Super Rugby's dreaded June hiatus won't be a thing of the past as plans to shift the international window to July have been rejected by the Six Nations...There was some support for the idea among the Six Nations - England and France are understood to have seen the value in shifting...But despite some nations seeing the sense in the proposal, the Six Nations vote together on these issues and it was scuppered when Wales voted against it.

The author is simply ignorant of the how the Northern Hemisphere season works. As for the reference to Wales scuppering it, that's just simple scapegoating. The quote above leaves out the bit where it says that it makes sense in England and France because their seasons end late in May, and makes no reference that teams from Ireland, Wales and Scotland would find themselves in the same position at being light handed for the first test in June if they were participating in the PRO12 final. France have the biggest problem with the Top 14 final finishing in June.

I'd shift the Six Nations to the end of the season and play the tests in one bloc. Start in September with club season. Break for Nov/Dec internationals. Then league and H Cup 2 until mid May. Start Six Nations plus allow a travel week and play first tests against SANZAR in July.
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Post by blackcanelion Mon 26 May 2014, 4:38 am

Pot Hale wrote:
Rugby Fan wrote:http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11261262

Super Rugby's dreaded June hiatus won't be a thing of the past as plans to shift the international window to July have been rejected by the Six Nations...There was some support for the idea among the Six Nations - England and France are understood to have seen the value in shifting...But despite some nations seeing the sense in the proposal, the Six Nations vote together on these issues and it was scuppered when Wales voted against it.

The author is simply ignorant of the how the Northern Hemisphere season works.   As for the reference to Wales scuppering it, that's just simple scapegoating.   The quote above leaves out the bit where it says that it makes sense in England and France because their seasons end late in May, and makes no reference that teams from Ireland, Wales and Scotland would find themselves in the same position at being light handed for the first test in June if they were participating in the PRO12 final.   France have the biggest problem with the Top 14 final finishing in June.

I'd shift the Six Nations to the end of the season and play the tests in one bloc.  Start in September with club season.  Break for Nov/Dec internationals.   Then league and H Cup 2 until mid May.  Start Six Nations plus allow a travel week and play first tests against SANZAR in July.  

Aside from the article, haven't all sides been working on this for the last 12 months. That includes, players unions, clubs and unions.

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Post by aucklandlaurie Mon 26 May 2014, 5:57 am

Pot Hale wrote:
Rugby Fan wrote:http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11261262

Super Rugby's dreaded June hiatus won't be a thing of the past as plans to shift the international window to July have been rejected by the Six Nations...There was some support for the idea among the Six Nations - England and France are understood to have seen the value in shifting...But despite some nations seeing the sense in the proposal, the Six Nations vote together on these issues and it was scuppered when Wales voted against it.

The author is simply ignorant of the how the Northern Hemisphere season works.   As for the reference to Wales scuppering it, that's just simple scapegoating.   The quote above leaves out the bit where it says that it makes sense in England and France because their seasons end late in May, and makes no reference that teams from Ireland, Wales and Scotland would find themselves in the same position at being light handed for the first test in June if they were participating in the PRO12 final.   France have the biggest problem with the Top 14 final finishing in June.

I'd shift the Six Nations to the end of the season and play the tests in one bloc.  Start in September with club season.  Break for Nov/Dec internationals.   Then league and H Cup 2 until mid May.  Start Six Nations plus allow a travel week and play first tests against SANZAR in July.  


Thats what happens when a New Zealand newspaper employs a Scotsman.

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Post by blackcanelion Mon 26 May 2014, 6:30 am

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
Rugby Fan wrote:http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11261262

Super Rugby's dreaded June hiatus won't be a thing of the past as plans to shift the international window to July have been rejected by the Six Nations...There was some support for the idea among the Six Nations - England and France are understood to have seen the value in shifting...But despite some nations seeing the sense in the proposal, the Six Nations vote together on these issues and it was scuppered when Wales voted against it.

The author is simply ignorant of the how the Northern Hemisphere season works.   As for the reference to Wales scuppering it, that's just simple scapegoating.   The quote above leaves out the bit where it says that it makes sense in England and France because their seasons end late in May, and makes no reference that teams from Ireland, Wales and Scotland would find themselves in the same position at being light handed for the first test in June if they were participating in the PRO12 final.   France have the biggest problem with the Top 14 final finishing in June.

I'd shift the Six Nations to the end of the season and play the tests in one bloc.  Start in September with club season.  Break for Nov/Dec internationals.   Then league and H Cup 2 until mid May.  Start Six Nations plus allow a travel week and play first tests against SANZAR in July.  


 Thats what happens when a New Zealand newspaper employs a Scotsman.

Do you think we could send him back. Not the greatest rugby hack. Not annoying like Rattue or Mark Reason (maybe we could throw him in as well).

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Post by blackcanelion Mon 26 May 2014, 7:20 am

Not sure if anyone's read this:

http://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/featured-post/16496/itll-be-a-whole-new-ball-game-if-baths-supremo-has-his-way/

I think there's some good elements in here. I think the timing of the 6 nations is probably the biggest limitation. If you could draw up a plan with a blank piece of paper. You'd put the internationals at the start and/or end of the season.

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Post by doctor_grey Mon 26 May 2014, 7:43 am

It is certainly a good starting point for any discussion about a Global season. I would want to make sure there is a mechanism to limit the number of matches played by any player.

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Post by Sin é Mon 26 May 2014, 2:05 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
Rugby Fan wrote:http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11261262

Super Rugby's dreaded June hiatus won't be a thing of the past as plans to shift the international window to July have been rejected by the Six Nations...There was some support for the idea among the Six Nations - England and France are understood to have seen the value in shifting...But despite some nations seeing the sense in the proposal, the Six Nations vote together on these issues and it was scuppered when Wales voted against it.

The author is simply ignorant of the how the Northern Hemisphere season works.   As for the reference to Wales scuppering it, that's just simple scapegoating.   The quote above leaves out the bit where it says that it makes sense in England and France because their seasons end late in May, and makes no reference that teams from Ireland, Wales and Scotland would find themselves in the same position at being light handed for the first test in June if they were participating in the PRO12 final.   France have the biggest problem with the Top 14 final finishing in June.

I'd shift the Six Nations to the end of the season and play the tests in one bloc.  Start in September with club season.  Break for Nov/Dec internationals.   Then league and H Cup 2 until mid May.  Start Six Nations plus allow a travel week and play first tests against SANZAR in July.  

One competition that won't be messed with is the 6Ns. Its a key time of the season with little competition from other sports and is premium tv viewing because of that. It is broadcast in 170 countries. Move it to any other time of the year and it will be competing with cricket, soccer, world cups etc. (BBC pay 40m to broadcast 15 game per season. RBS pay 11m per annum sponsorship).

I certainly wouldn't want to see international rugby played at the start of the season either. We'd have all these meaninless friendly preseason games ... and what would the clubs do in this period? How many would you need to have in the international training squad to cover competition and injury? As it is, teams can be playing away with their clubs and come in to cover injury as well.

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Post by Jhamer25 Mon 26 May 2014, 4:58 pm

The WRU are stuck up their own ar$e, stubborn and don't care for much apart from profit so that sounds about right

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Post by Knowsit17 Mon 26 May 2014, 6:47 pm

Oh dear, had you not been reading the OP or comments before commenting yourself?

The suggestion that the WRU were the only organisation making noises against the change is arbitrary and probably unfounded as other northern unions will have also had reason to oppose it. This is the case as it was worked out entirely in terms of convenience on the south side of the spectrum with little to no consideration of the impact it would have on NH fixtures, preparation etc. This is not an issue exclusive to Wales as the article implies. I suspect the authors are simply capitalising on the 'villains' tag popularly ascribed to the WRU to try and pin the majority of the blame on them.

The only legitimate solution involves all parties. Sooner or later something will have to give and somebody in the IRB or one of the unions will have to utter the dreaded possibility of a radically-rearranged global season. These niggling disputes over timing and schedules will only continue until something large-scale and long term is looked at.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Mon 26 May 2014, 6:49 pm

Perhaps because the Welsh sides are rarely employed at this time of the season?

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Post by Scratch Mon 26 May 2014, 7:00 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Perhaps because the Welsh sides are rarely employed at this time of the season?

Pathetic wumming, how very uncharacteristic of you  Rolling Eyes 

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Mon 26 May 2014, 7:14 pm

Am I wrong?

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Post by Barney McGrew did it Mon 26 May 2014, 8:20 pm

The Wales' veto didn't go far enough. The summer tours are a luxury the players could do without. Summer should be restricted to the surgical reconstruction of test players that seems the norm these days.
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Post by Pot Hale Tue 27 May 2014, 12:52 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Am I wrong?

Not this year, you're not. Nor last year.

But the year before, you would be wrong. Smile
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