Best match of a Gimmick - Hell in a Cell edition.

The most demonic structure in the WWE has seen some incredible matches hell inside - and sometimes on top of - it.  It has housed complete duds, but also an elusive 5 star match. However, its worth noting that although the very first match received 5 stars, many people rank other matches higher.  Unlike the Iron Man match poll, in this thread, I'm asking people to pick their top 10 HiaC matches, and I'll take an average and we'll vote again from there, till we get a definitive answer.  This is purely because there has been so many matches, especially in modern times.

There was a HiaC dark match on RAW a few years ago but I havent included it as no one will have seen it.  Its also very telling that I forgot about most of the matches in the past 5-6 years.  The Hell in a Cell PPV was the worst idea of the gimmick PPV's, and completely devalued the gimmick.  I'd be surprised if alot of the modern ones get into the top 10.

So again, for starters, pick your top 10, doesnt have to be in order.  And in a week or two I'll take the top 10 and we'll vote again.  Cheers.

Picked all the obvious one's bar KOTR '98, while it's an iconic match (or rather 2 iconic moments) and did wonders for Foley's floundering career, it can't bring myself to get into it or enjoy it, in the question of how far is too far, it think this might be my limit.

Did you not enjoy it because it pushed the boundaries or because it wasnt that great a match?

I would say he didn't enjoy it because it basically encouraged Wrestlers to attempt to kill themselves, thats what I think when I see it, Foley showed no care for himself or for his profession or for anyone at the annouce table he may have landed on or for any fans in the arena or even at home watching live who may have been witness to a live death!

He was extraordinarily irresponsible - the fact that nothing tragic stemmed from that moment shouldn't lesson the irresponsibility of it.

I think thats a bit of an overreaction. I don't think there was much risk of death involved in that. Truly. And his profession had seen much, much worse.

I picked it, and enjoy it as a match too. Its just wholly dramatic and unique.

It's an awful match looking back upon it, two spots and the rest just breaks whilst Foley gains a 2nd wind/consciousness.
It pretty much sums up the 'glorified stuntman' monicker he was labelled with.

Technically its awful, but its intriguing and the crowd love Foley for more than the spot. Its the fight back and the perverse honour.

I'm not trying to play some highbrow morality card here, I don't even think it was a bad match, in terms of drama, spectacle and emotion it's a 10/10 match, unfortunately, just like the Rumble I Quit match, it just makes me really uncomfortable to watch, it probably doesn't help that Foley is the man involved as their probably hasn't been another man thanks to Beyond the Mat who has shown the true suffering of wrestling more clearly.

I don't like to be critical of Foley as he's one of my favourite ever wrestlers, and there's no doubt that following that match that he went from a guy on his way down to WWF champion he'd say what he took was worth it, but it can't be argued that Foley was never the same after that night and seeing a man with a tooth coming out his nose is just not something I can enjoy (yet I will watch a Chris Benoit match, go figure)

Ps who in the blue hell voted for Taker/Bossman?!

The most damaging spot from that match was the botched one. One that WWE have revived in different ways. Go figure. I wouldnt even accept that it notably shortened his career. By his level, the worst stuff had been and gone.

I agree on the I Quit stuff though, that went too far, but I understand the intent behind it. The Rock went too far really.

But still, we know the kind of s*** he pulled before all that, and I think we know that Foley knew his career wasnt carrying on for too long after this all. That Cell match wasnt the precedent and it didnt set the standards of the time.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:I think thats a bit of an overreaction. I don't think there was much risk of death involved in that. Truly. And his profession had seen much, much worse.

I picked it, and enjoy it as a match too. Its just wholly dramatic and unique.

If you dont think there was much risk of death then thats fair enough, I do though, he could easily have broken his neck, this is a 20 stone guy diving head first onto concrete below him, the Spanish announce team weren't "in" on it either, what happens if he landed on any of them? What happens if his leg hooked the fence and he flips onto his head, kids in the front row, just an utterly ridiculous bump

had his profession seen much worse at the time? Sure, worse things had happened in Pro Wrestling by that point but was it as freely accessable as WWF King of The Ring? Absolutely not, so while there may have been a lot worse in supped up Gymnasiums every week at the time, they didn't have anywhere near the publicity of that stupid bump.

Just because Foley didn't die or injure himself doesn't stop it from being irresponsible, for a long time idiotic bumps became the necessity after that.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:The most damaging spot from that match was the botched one. One that WWE have revived in different ways. Go figure. I wouldnt even accept that it notably shortened his career. By his level, the worst stuff had been and gone.

I agree on the I Quit stuff though, that went too far, but I understand the intent behind it. The Rock went too far really.

But still, we know the kind of s*** he pulled before all that, and I think we know that Foley knew his career wasnt carrying on for too long after this all. That Cell match wasnt the precedent and it didnt set the standards of the time.

So so wrong here, thats exactly what it was and thats exactly what it did!

Triple H v Jericho was my favourite, wasn't over a title, wasn't overhyped, was just a great match to watch and great storytelling.

Where is the Kennel from Hell match between Bossman and Al Snow?

The Womble wrote:Where is the Kennel from Hell match between Bossman and Al Snow?

consigned to the history books where it belongs. But it wasnt included as it's not regarded as a Hell in a Cell match,

Kay Fabe wrote:

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:The most damaging spot from that match was the botched one. One that WWE have revived in different ways. Go figure. I wouldnt even accept that it notably shortened his career. By his level, the worst stuff had been and gone.

I agree on the I Quit stuff though, that went too far, but I understand the intent behind it. The Rock went too far really.

But still, we know the kind of s*** he pulled before all that, and I think we know that Foley knew his career wasnt carrying on for too long after this all. That Cell match wasnt the precedent and it didnt set the standards of the time.

So so wrong here, thats exactly what it was and thats exactly what it did!

I say this with real sincerity, as I'm interested, but how was it and how did it? Its an industry that had seen worse, and not just abroad.

Glad there are a few that agree with on me the Undertaker v Brock Lesnar.

Brutal but what story. Heyman again at his finest. The spot with the steel steps, and Brock Lesnar seemingly effortlessly throwing them at 'Taker. Ridiculously good.

HHH vs HBK for me. An epic match, the final of there series, just brilliant.

That and the Taker-Lesnar ones for me

You could make an arguement that Shane McMahon vs Kurt Angle at KotT 2001 was a much more dangerous match. Fair enough, Foley coming off the cell could have went alot worse, but I believe that KotR PPV set Kurt off on his downward spiral.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:

Kay Fabe wrote:

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:The most damaging spot from that match was the botched one. One that WWE have revived in different ways. Go figure. I wouldnt even accept that it notably shortened his career. By his level, the worst stuff had been and gone.

I agree on the I Quit stuff though, that went too far, but I understand the intent behind it. The Rock went too far really.

But still, we know the kind of s*** he pulled before all that, and I think we know that Foley knew his career wasnt carrying on for too long after this all. That Cell match wasnt the precedent and it didnt set the standards of the time.

So so wrong here, thats exactly what it was and thats exactly what it did!

I say this with real sincerity, as I'm interested, but how was it and how did it? Its an industry that had seen worse, and not just abroad.

How was it the precident and how did it set the standard of the time? Thats easy but to truly understand it you have to go back to that point as it happened, not just on what we can read online, you have to look at what was readily available for the average viewer, at that time you'll be hard pushed to find any bump worse than Foley's - there was imbeciles like Vic Grimes and New Jack but how many wrestling fans even knew that kind of stuff existed back in the 90s? It was a niche market - for main stream LIVE Television it was a match that changed the perception of fans on the limits Wrestlers could go too - before 1998 there was big angles and some obvious bad injuries in the ring but nothing more delibrate or sinister than Foley's first bump, after that match there was a major rise in dangerously daring bumps on what seemed like a monthly basis.

Some might argue that the WWF were on course to get more daring/dangerous and that might well be true although nobody will ever really know, but no-one can surely dispute that Mick Foley was front and center of this change and that match with the one planned bump and the one botch was undoubtedly the catalyst for what was to come - So in that sense it was mist definitely the precedent and did set the tandard of the time.

But what about ECW? What about the copious blood they had used to put over how dangerous things were? What about the fans that WWE were desperate to win back that they knew wanted an adult edge. It was an eye opener for mainstream, but it was definitely coming. The Hardys didnt do what they did cos of Mick Foley and the product didnt go that way cos of Mick Foley.

ECW didnt have nearly as much coverage as WWE did then.

Of course, they never did, but they had left an indelible mark. And when talent has come from there and worked in WWE and WCW, and when WWE isnt showing the cruiserweight potential WCW did, then it was bound to be that aspect that got taken by them. The shock jock nature of the product had already been in full flow.

For me it has to be the Hunter/Taker one at WM28, I'm probably being glossy eyed but the whole "end of an era" aspect to it was perfectly done. Taker got to 20-0 as well. And that image of Taker/HHH/HBK on the ramp at the end was genuinely moving

Best match at WM28 as well!

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:But what about ECW? What about the copious blood they had used to put over how dangerous things were? What about the fans that WWE were desperate to win back that they knew wanted an adult edge. It was an eye opener for mainstream, but it was definitely coming. The Hardys didnt do what they did cos of Mick Foley and the product didnt go that way cos of Mick Foley.

what did ECW do that was on a par with what Foley done at that point, and remember this was 1998, how many people do you think actually watched ECW back then?


For years Vince McMahon would steal ideas/stories from lesser feds and give it a platform via the WWF/E...now this doesn't mean the WWF invented those ideas/stories but they gave them a platform to be viewed by a wider audience than it could ever be anticipated, the very same goes for Foley, it doesn't matter if Wrestler X was actually killing people in some Gymnasium in 1997, if only 150 see it then it has no real significance, if Mick Foley throws himself off a 20 foot cage through a table head first in front of 15k fans in the arena and Millions of fans on Live TV it has a major impact on what now becomes acceptable - suddenly his peers now have a benchmark that they have to aspire to in certain type of matches - what Foley did was the very definition of setting a precedent and the standard for time

I suppose it's because I don't think it's as dangerous or violent as some of the stuff both major companies put out, combined with the fact the show was definitely on its way to that level and was a matter of time before someone else did it if Foley hadn't. And I'm not sure it was ever really replicated

Olly wrote:HHH vs HBK for me. An epic match, the final of there series, just brilliant.

That and the Taker-Lesnar ones for me

Wasn't the 3 stages of hell come after that?

3 stages of hell was the tail end of 2002.