Munster 2014/2015

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Munster Senior Squad 14/15

Hooker: Duncan Casey, Niall Scannell, Mike Sherry, Damien Varley

Prop: Stephen Archer, BJ Botha, Alan Cotter, James Cronin, Martin Kelly, Dave Kilcoyne, John Ryan

Lock: Dave Foley, Billy Holland, Donncha O'Callaghan, Paul O'Connell, Donncha Ryan

Back Row: Shane Buckley*, Paddy Butler, Robin Copeland, Sean Dougall, Dave O'Callaghan, Tommy O'Donnell, Barry O'Mahoney, Peter O'Mahoney, CJ Stander

Scrum Half: Conor Murray, Cathal Sheridan, Duncan Williams

Out Half: JJ Hanrahan, Jonny Holland*, Ian Keatley, Tyler Bleyendaal

Centre: Cian Bohane, Ivan Dineen, Keith Earls, Andrew Smith

Wing: Andrew Conway, Johne Murphy, Luke O'Dea, Ronan O'Mahoney, Gerhard van den Heever, Simon Zebo

Full Back: Denis Hurley, Felix Jones

*Promoted from academy

Player Movement 14/15

In: Tyler Bleyendaal (Crusaders), Robin Copeland (Cardiff Blues), Martin Kelly (Dublin University), Andrew Smith (Brumbies)
Out: James Coughlan (Pau), James Downey (Glasgow Warriors), Casey Laulala (Racing Metro), Quentin MacDonald (Chiefs, NZ), Ian Nagle (TBC), Niall Ronan (Retired)

Academy Squad 14/15

Max Abbot (Year 1), Rory Burke (Year 2), Niall Horan (Year 2) Brian Scott (Year 1), John Madigan (Year 2), Sean McCarthy (Year 2), Darragh Moloney (Year 1), Ryan Murphy (Year 3), Jack O'Donoghue (Year 3)
Jack Cullen (Year 2), Ryan Foley (Year 1), Jamie Glynn (Year 1), Gearoid Lyons (Year 2), Dan Goggin (Year 1), Rory Scannell (Year 2), Greg O'Shea (Year 2), Alex Wootton (Year 2), Stephen Fitzgerald (Year 1), David Johnston (Year 2), Darren Sweetnam (Year 3)

Coaching Staff 14/15

Head Coach: Anthony Foley
Team Manager: Niall O'Donovan
Scrum Coach: Jerry Flannery
Backs Coach: Brian Walsh
Assistant Coach: Ian Costello
Technical Advisor: Mick O'Driscoll

Rugby Champions Cup Pool 14/15

Saracens, Munster, Clermont, Sale Sharks

Guinness Pro 12 Opening Fixtures

Edinburgh (H)
Treviso (A)
Zebre (H)
Ospreys (H)
Leinster (A)

MunsterMac wrote:

He has a London specialist who would make those kind of decisions.

Earls seems to have a big problem as well. He is meeting with his consultant next week.

Tupoki, Flannery, Wallace, Leamy, Barry Murphy, Dowling, Howlett all retired prematurely over a very short period of time.

Sherry, Varley, Archer, Ryan, Earls, Jones, O'Dea, amongst others constantly out with long term mysterious injuries and Munster admitted themselves that POC's recovery from his long term injury was compromised by an infection in his groin which was missed for a long time.

Maybe it's time we got a new consultant!!

(I do realise there's more than one consultant involved. I'm just frustrated. )

Its just rugby nowadays. The likes of Stringer, ROG and DOC are really unusual now.

Just on a few of these players:
Tipoki didn't give himself long enough to recover in Munster. He got back to playing in New Zealand and was still playing at 37.
Flannery was 33 when he retired with a calf problem.
Wallace was 35 and had to retire because of Manu Tualagi tackle that finished his knee.
Archer - common enough injury with props.
Ryan - toe injury that doesn't allow him to scrummage. He can do everything else apparently.
Earls - knee problem when he steps (hardly unusual for a back).
Jones - all his injuries have been from impacts (colliding with Johnny O'Connor was his first one).
O'Dea - he is a young player. Don't write him off yet.
Barry Murphy - metatarsal injury.
Dowling - hip injured (from impact in match)
Howlett - he was 35 - he was rarely injured up to that final injury when scoring a try.

Will be interesting to see how POM goes after getting two shoulders reconstructed.

Cian Healy out for a few months. Chance for Kilcoyne and Cronin to push for an Ireland spot. Dennis Buckley might also come into the mix.

Munster team named.

Munster: Johne Murphy, Andrew Conway, Ivan Dineen, Denis Hurley, Gerhard van den Heever; Ian Keatley, Conor Murray - capt; Dave Kilcoyne, Duncan Casey, BJ Botha; Donncha O'Callaghan, Paul O'Connell; Paddy Butler, Sean Dougall, CJ Stander

Replacements: Kevin O'Byrne, James Cronin, Stephen Archer, Dave Foley, Jack O'Donoghue, Duncan Williams, JJ Hanrahan, Andrew Smith

No Zebo, Copeland, O'Donnell, Jones or Sheridan and Williams is still there.

Team Named
Evans, Hassler, Bishop, Matavesi, Walker, Biggar, Webb, Smith, Baldwin, Jarvis, Bernardo, Bearman, Tipuric, Baker
Subs Parry, Jones, Arhip, King, Allen, Roberts, Davies and Dirksen.
I would have gone with King at 6, it looks as though we are still weak at 2nd Row in the replacements and he is needed there, cann't wait for the South African to arrive, just hoping we can get something out of this game.

Pathetic turnout again despite it being a saturday and Foley pleading for the fans to turn up.

Munster are going to really pay for not turning up in the league the last couple of seasons.

Pathetic turnout again despite it being a saturday and Foley pleading for the fans to turn up.

Munster are going to really pay for not turning up in the league the last couple of seasons.

Ah but they like to self-style themselves as the "best supporters in the world", seems they are as long as they're wining

great win for the Ospreys despite the refs best efforts. Shocking penalty count - complete homer

I think it's clear that the Keatley experiment is over and JJ should be no.1.
As for the fans, or lack of them with the All Ireland final on at 5 it would have been a stretch to expect a big crowd. Given the importance of hurling in Munster its to be expected as there are a lot more dual supporters here including people like myself. We aren't as discriminatory regarding which sports to support unlike the Leinster fans. Having said that not putting your main stadium in the largest population centre wasn't the smartest move...

tatterd wrote:great win for the Ospreys despite the refs best efforts. Shocking penalty count - complete homer

He is a Welsh ref, who needs friends like him.

Didn't see the game, but well done Os.

Where to start?!

Firstly, as I've been saying for 2 years Ian Keatley is not good enough to be the starting 10 for Munster.

The fans know it, most of the pundits know it and I dare say the players and Foley know it.

The issue now is whether Foley will have the balls to put JJ in there for an extended run ala Kidney with Hurley/Payne and TOL/Stringer.

We will win NOTHING with Keatley.

Secondly there is definitely something ary in the Munster camp at the moment.

The general consensus amongst the fans I spoke to at the game on Saturday is that the email has definitely done a lot of damage and I have to say it's not hard to believe given what I've seen so far this season.

Thirdly yes the AI replay definitely had a big effect on Saturday but if Foley wants the fans to come out and support the team then he'd better ensure they have something to come out for because the muck that has been served up so far isn't going to entice people to part with their cash.

For a start he could make sure he always picks his strongest available team for every home match. Where were Zebo, Copeland, TOD, and Jones on Saturday?

+1 on starting the strongest possible team at home....its a no brainer at this stage.

Just Keatley? What about Conway? He's from Leinster as well. Surely he desreves some criticism.

JJ was listed as injured in that email. And in fairness to Keatley he has been carrying the same injury.

Osteitis Pubis
Osteitis Pubis is a painful overuse injury that affects the pelvis and most commonly occurs during kicking activities, ice skating and dance.

Osteitis Pubis Treatment
Frustratingly, Osteitis Pubis can be resistant to treatment and can last between 6 months and two years before symptoms resolve. For this reason a preventative approach is preferable. Over training should be avoided, particularly in those who participate in long or repetitive kicking sports.

The p-i-ss-ed e-mail conspires against Munster again.  NEVER fuk with a vengeful e-mail who holds grudges.

On a side-note - hmmm, early days of course, but looks overall like the pre-World Cup greatness of Irishism (that usually strikes about this time and this far out from each rendition of that competition)...well, it looks like the spokes have come off that particular wheel early.

Poor Schittmst! - stuck without a Heal now until at least the 6N, and a laconic Aussie unscrewing the well-oil Leinster machine, gasket nut by alternator bolt; Ulster being beaten by Egitzbras, and an Irish coach ruining the mental fabric of the fragile Munster lads!

It ain't looking too bright.  Schmitz will be scrambling through his long contract to find where his 'Get Out early' clauses are.

And in fairness to Keatley he has been carrying the same injury.

Yes but it's not just his kicking is it.

His overall game management isn't great, he rarely puts in a good kick to the corner to relieve the pressure / mix things up and generally he can't be relied upon in a tight situation.

He's just not good enough.

MunsterMac wrote:

And in fairness to Keatley he has been carrying the same injury.

Yes but it's not just his kicking is it.

His overall game management isn't great, he rarely puts in a good kick to the corner to relieve the pressure / mix things up and generally he can't be relied upon in a tight situation.

He's just not good enough.

All of those things requires a good kicking game (kicking to the corners, game management etc). The treatment for his injury is rest from repetitive actions like kicking. He can't practice kicking (same as JJ). I'd imagine that would affect your confidence and your game management if you were not confident with your kicking.

His main problem is consistency. Even within a game he makes mistakes which affects him.

Having said that, in fairness he wasn't the reason we lost...

All of those things requires a good kicking game (kicking to the corners, game management etc). The treatment for his injury is rest from repetitive actions like kicking. He can't practice kicking (same as JJ). I'd imagine that would affect your confidence and your game management if you were not confident with your kicking.

Fair enough. We'll agree to differ.

Personally I think Munster will struggle to achieve anything with Keatley at 10, even if he were 100% fit all the time.

Having said that, in fairness he wasn't the reason we lost...

True to a degree but many teams who have struggled for whatever reason (form, transition, injuries) have had a 10 they can rely on to get them out of trouble and pull them through.

It's not a stretch to say that Munster could be unbeaten at this stage if Keatley could take his kicks some of which have been very kickable.

MunsterMac wrote:

Having said that, in fairness he wasn't the reason we lost...

True to a degree but many teams who have struggled for whatever reason (form, transition, injuries) have had a 10 they can rely on to get them out of trouble and pull them through.

It's not a stretch to say that Munster could be unbeaten at this stage if Keatley could take his kicks some of which have been very kickable.

With a penalty count of 14-7 in Munsters favour last Saturday, I would have thought that he had more than his fair share of chances to stamp his authority on the game, the difference is, Biggar had 5 kicks at goal and nailed them all, he punished Munster with his kicks to touch aswell, perhaps Munster need to find a Gopperth or a Pienaar of their own who they could rely on to get them over the line.

The big issue for a lot of teams actually is that they get into this notion of 'convention' and can't seem to .........................em, kick............................ themselves out of it.  It ends up feeling almost as if the possibility of kicking themselves out of conventional ways is somehow offensive to them, and therefore should never be suggested to them

Take for example the idea of substitutes.  It seems a written-in-stone law that no coach worth his salary can contemplate substituting players until sometime in and around the 60th minute mark of a game.  Anything earlier and - and despite grim evidence that a towel probably should be thrown in to save a team from total shame - is rather seen as.............well, a sign of weakness, a sign of throwing in the towel.
Well, no - it's more a sign that the team on the field isn't working, that the idea of playing the game at all is to win it and that getting more suitable players on the field earlier is a realistic attempt to change the contours of the game in your favour.  
BUT.................. still most coaches persist.  You can see their team being hammered - they have nothing to lose  - but still the old convention is punishingly adhered to.  As you scream for the coach to bring on the player who might at least try something different - nope, he lingers on his watch, waiting for the magic 10 minute wonder box of substitution glory.
Now I know the smart stuff.  I'm well aware of the smart stuff of using certain gameplans to tire out the opposition or wrong foot the opposition in some way only to blow them off the field with well planned substitutions.  I know all that guile stuff.  But it's the genuine hopelessly outgunned sides I'm talking about, who still keep to conventions of substitution timings when a little break in convention might save their skins instead.

NOW.............. that's just a longwinded way of getting to another frustrating 'convention' that seems written in stone, but actually isn't in any rugby rule book that I know - and that is the stubborn belief that your 10 should be your only kicking option on the field.  
And, if he's having a nightmare, you still persist with the nightmare until the magic clock hits 60 and you then duly call in the covering 10........................................... who also seems to be the only player then given the licence to kick for goal.  
Players usually have a few natural skills tucked under their petticoats.  I'd guess in any team of 15 players there are a few players who have a handy foot that's accurate enough to take over some kicking duties IF the 10 isn't functioning.  Think outside the convention box and you never know, you might find yourself with a well rounded team of multi-taskers...God forbid!!!!

LordDowlais wrote:perhaps Munster need to find a Gopperth or a Pienaar of their own who they could rely on to get them over the line.

I like what you did there, Lord.  Killed two gooses with one golden egg  Not only do Munster need a non-Irish 10 to drag them out of the noodle soup they've entangled themselves in...but the inference seems to be that Sexton himself, God Save Him, is the only option Ireland have too to save us from the Fires of Biggar that Gatland will be throwing at us come the 6N.

We're f**ked.

SecretFly wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:perhaps Munster need to find a Gopperth or a Pienaar of their own who they could rely on to get them over the line.

I like what you did there, Lord.  Killed two gooses with one golden egg  Not only do Munster need a non-Irish 10 to drag them out of the noodle soup they've entangled themselves in...but the inference seems to be that Sexton himself, God Save Him, is the only option Ireland have too to save us from the Fires of Biggar that Gatland will be throwing at us come the 6N.

We're f**ked.

I did not mean it that way SF, I just do not know of any Irish no.10's that Munster could get their hands on to do the job that Keatley is obviously not doing, anyway Ireland will be fine if Sexton gets injured Ulster have a very good young un at ten that looks to be going in the right direction and could displace Sexton in time, so why do you think I was trying to cause a bun fight ? Also I doubt Gatland will pick Biggar anyway, he will stick to his lovechild, Preistland.

Bun fights are fun. No man who starts one is my enemy.

Indeed, this damn 606 kinda needs a War of the Buns right now to drag it out of this decent into a slow and painful death it's experiencing at the moment. Being here lately is like having your teeth pulled by Charles Manson ...in the dark.... with a pair of garden clippers...blunt ones.

LordDowlais wrote:

With a penalty count of 14-7 in Munsters favour last Saturday, I would have thought that he had more than his fair share of chances to stamp his authority on the game, the difference is, Biggar had 5 kicks at goal and nailed them all, he punished Munster with his kicks to touch aswell, perhaps Munster need to find a Gopperth or a Pienaar of their own who they could rely on to get them over the line.

JJ Hanrahan won the rabo golden boot last season with almost 90% kicking accuracy over the season. Problem is himself and Keatley are carrying the same niggly injury since last season.

profitius wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

With a penalty count of 14-7 in Munsters favour last Saturday, I would have thought that he had more than his fair share of chances to stamp his authority on the game, the difference is, Biggar had 5 kicks at goal and nailed them all, he punished Munster with his kicks to touch aswell, perhaps Munster need to find a Gopperth or a Pienaar of their own who they could rely on to get them over the line.

JJ Hanrahan won the rabo golden boot last season with almost 90% kicking accuracy over the season. Problem is himself and Keatley are carrying the same niggly injury since last season.

If they both have the SAME injury then it must be something to do with how they are being coached.

And even allowing for the unfortunate injury to Tyler Bleyendaal if both players are unable to perform the basics then surely something has to be done.

LordDowlais wrote:

profitius wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

With a penalty count of 14-7 in Munsters favour last Saturday, I would have thought that he had more than his fair share of chances to stamp his authority on the game, the difference is, Biggar had 5 kicks at goal and nailed them all, he punished Munster with his kicks to touch aswell, perhaps Munster need to find a Gopperth or a Pienaar of their own who they could rely on to get them over the line.

JJ Hanrahan won the rabo golden boot last season with almost 90% kicking accuracy over the season. Problem is himself and Keatley are carrying the same niggly injury since last season.

If they both have the SAME injury then it must be something to do with how they are being coached.

Its (Osteitis Pubis) is an overuse injury that kickers are prone to getting. The cure is rest which isn't possible if both your kickers have it. It didn't help that both of them were sent on that Emerging Ireland Tour to Georgia which meant their season was even longer than those that went to Argentina.

From what I can see is they were trying to limp along with just Keatley, giving JJ a full chance to recover and then when Bleyenthal arrived. With Bleyenthal's injuries that won't work now so it looks like we will probably have to limp along for another season with the problem.

in other news Keith Earls is out for 4 months. he is having surgery this month following an injury he received at the irish training camp in August

Yep just heard that on Newstalk.

Bloody marvelous.

An interesting article by Lenihan today in the Paper about Munster Rugby going forward. Nail on the head I would say in terms of the need for players to get gametime and the situation with the clubs...
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/donal-lenihan/vibrant-clubs-essential-for-munster-290371.html

Cardiff Blues v Munster, Guinness PRO12 Round 7, BT Sport Cardiff Arms Park, Saturday November 1st - KO 5:15pm.

Munster: Johne Murphy, Andrew Conway, Andrew Smith, Rory Scannell, Gerhard van den Heever; JJ Hanrahan, Duncan Williams; John Ryan, Kevin O'Byrne, BJ Botha; Donncha O'Callaghan - capt, Billy Holland; CJ Stander, Paddy Butler, Robin Copeland

Replacements: Eusebio Guinazu, Alan Cotter, Stephen Archer, Sean McCarthy, Barry O'Mahony, Cathal Sheridan, Johnny Holland, Ronan O'Mahony

Will be interesting to see how Rory Scannell gets on.

Disappointed Dougal and O'Donoghue are not involved.

Is Luke O'Dea still injured?

And Cahal Sheridan must have had a catastrophic collapse in form this season because he looked 10 times better than Williams last year.

MunsterMac wrote:Disappointed Dougal and O'Donoghue are not involved.

Is Luke O'Dea still injured?

And Cahal Sheridan must have had a catastrophic collapse in form this season because he looked 10 times better than Williams last year.

Agree on O'Donoghue, Dougal is just back from injury so maybe they are nursing him. No idea about O'Dea havent heard a gog on him lately. Sheridans form was poor enough iirc and Williams isnt playing too badly.

A backrow of Stander, Dougal and Copeland would be very interesting.

Sheridan looked the real deal last season and as he's had very little play this year I can only assume his form in training has crashed.

And to be fair Willaims wasn't dire for the 10 minutes or so he played against the Scarlets which for him is a huge upturn in form.

MunsterMac wrote:A backrow of Stander, Dougal and Copeland would be very interesting.

Sheridan looked the real deal last season and as he's had very little play this year I can only assume his form in training has crashed.

And to be fair Willaims wasn't dire for the 10 minutes or so he played against the Scarlets which for him is a huge upturn in form.

Not a great fan of Sheridans to be honest.

good win ...a bit lucky but they hung in there unlike previous games. Positives...Williams, Copeland, Smith, Holland (Johnny) - looks a decent prospect....lead from the front by DOC....also Scannell looks like he could be a decent player for No.12....

Having watched the game tonight, I always end up thinking exactly the same thing at the end of Munster games - what exactly does Keatley do that Hanrahan doesn't? I don't get it.

George Carlin wrote:Having watched the game tonight, I always end up thinking exactly the same thing at the end of Munster games - what exactly does Keatley do that Hanrahan doesn't? I don't get it.

Dont know...I guess we are lucky to have both after ROG but JJ is the future for sure...should be sooner though...

Were last nights LHs anywhere near first choice?

ME-109 wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Having watched the game tonight, I always end up thinking exactly the same thing at the end of Munster games - what exactly does Keatley do that Hanrahan doesn't? I don't get it.

Dont know...I guess we are lucky to have both after ROG but JJ is the future for sure...should be sooner though...

Holds tackle bags in Ireland camp until Jackson gets his kicking from hand sorted!

The Saint wrote:Were last nights LHs anywhere near first choice?

Ryan is third choice behind Cronin and Kilcoyne but he is decent enough.

Notch wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Having watched the game tonight, I always end up thinking exactly the same thing at the end of Munster games - what exactly does Keatley do that Hanrahan doesn't? I don't get it.

Dont know...I guess we are lucky to have both after ROG but JJ is the future for sure...should be sooner though...

Holds tackle bags in Ireland camp until Jackson gets his kicking from hand sorted!

True...but he might as well get used to it as poor old PJ doesnt look like he has a hope of making the squad...

https://www.606v2.com/t56914-glasgow-warriors-v-munster-rugby-20-december

Your finest craic is expected.

Jaysus. The last post on this thread was also mine?
Really? Really, Munstermen?

Come on then:
https://www.606v2.com/t58823-ulster-rugby-v-munster-rugby-9-may

Leaving/retiring
JJ Hanrahan
Paddy Butler
Sean Dougal
Alan Cotter
Martin Kelly
Ivan Dineen
Johne Murphy
Barry O'Mahony
Andrew Smith
Paul O'Connell
Damien Varley

Looks like a big clearout of the squad. There might be more departures in the summer.

Incoming
Francis Saili - Auckland Blues
Tomas O'Leary - London Irish
Jordan Coughlan - Leinster
Peter McCabe (prop) - Dolphin

Darren Sweetnam - promoted from academy
Jack O'Donoghue - promoted from academy