Season 7 Homepage 2

by Driver Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:58 am

First topic message reminder :

Breaking News: Saints continue to set the pace with win at defending champions while the Chiefs remain unbeaten after toppling the Tigers

Season 7 Homepage 2 - Page 5 Aviva-Premiership-Trophy-e1306508139154

2013/2014 – London Wasps
2012/2013 – Leicester Tigers
2011/2012 – Newcastle Falcons
2010/2011 - Newcastle Falcons
2009/2010 – Saracens
2008/2009 - London Irish

POS	Aviva Premiership	PLAYED	WON	DREW	LOST	P F	P A	P D	T F	T A	TBP	LBP	POINTS
1	Northampton Saints	2	2	0	0	64	46	18	8	4	2	0	10
2	Sale Sharks	2	2	0	0	59	50	9	7	4	1	0	9
3	Exeter Chiefs	2	2	0	0	51	48	3	5	4	0	0	8
4	Harlequins	2	1	1	0	56	50	6	6	5	0	0	6
5	Leicester Tigers	2	1	0	1	50	48	2	5	3	0	1	5
6	Bath Rugby	2	1	0	1	54	54	0	5	6	0	1	5
7	Newcastle Falcons	2	1	0	1	48	49	-1	5	3	0	1	5
8	London Wasps	2	1	0	1	50	54	-4	5	6	0	0	4
9	London Irish	2	0	1	1	51	53	-2	5	5	0	1	3
10	London Welsh	2	0	0	2	46	53	-7	4	6	0	2	2
11	Saracens	2	0	0	2	46	57	-11	4	6	0	2	2
12	Gloucester	2	0	0	2	48	61	-13	4	7	0	1	1

Links

Fixture List
Released/Championship/National League/Academy Bidding
Foreign Transfers
Budgets
European Homepage
Anglo Welsh Homepage

Welcome to Season 7 of the Aviva Premiership fantasy rugby game. Below are the rules of the game which must be adhered to. If there are any situations that arise in the course of the game which are not covered by the rules, a final decision will be made by the RFU (SJE) as to how the situation will be resolved.

Senior Squads wrote:
The maximum squad size is 40 senior players. If a team has more than 40 players in their squad then they will be fined £1 million per player over the permitted amounts per day for the first seven days. If after 7 consecutive days a team still has more than the permitted number of players then the team will be fined £2 million per player per day, and fined 1 league point per player per day for the next seven days. If after this time a team still has more than the permitted number of players in their squad, the RFU (SJE) will remove players at its discretion to bring them back under the permitted numbers. There will be no right of appeal to players being removed.

Be aware that all tier one international matches which are played during the season will count in the game, and players selected in the match day 23's for those matches will not be eligible to play for their clubs on that weekend, therefore you must give due consideration to the make-up of your squad.

Academy Rules wrote:
Each team will be allowed to have an academy squad of 20 players. Players who are in the academy must be born on or after 1st September 1992.

Any player, who is at any Premiership club in real life, either in their senior, academy or AASE squads, can be bid for on the domestic bidding page. Players who are at your own club in real life and are coming through the academy system must be bid for if you want them in your own academy.

Transfers wrote:

Domestic (other AP Teams)
Each team has a budget to use in the purchase of players. Domestic transfers between AP clubs, regardless of nationality of player, should be negotiated between the respective managers, and then confirmed on the Domestic Transfer Confirmation Page.
Domestic (Championship and below)
Each team may during the season purchase no more than 5 players from the Championship or the National Leagues. These players must be bid for on the National League Bidding page, and each bid will be considered by me on its own merits before being accepted or rejected. No bid will be accepted until a minimum of 24 hours has elapsed from the time the bid was made, in order to afford other managers the opportunity to make a counter bid.
Foreign
To make a foreign transfer (i.e. from any club outside of the AP, regardless of whether the player is English) a bid should be made on the Foreign Transfers Page, which will be considered by me against the posted guidelines for purchase prices before being accepted or rejected. No bid will be accepted until a minimum of 24 hours has elapsed from the time the bid was made, in order to afford other managers the opportunity to make a counter bid.

There will be a summer foreign transfer window, which will run as follows.

Open Window

Open transfer window, teams have unlimited bids provided they have the financial resources to cover them. Teams may only bid for one player at a time.

The window will open from the 9th of June but only to those sides that finish 8th and below at first. They will have a week to make one signing each before the window is open to all.

Player Releases wrote:
Managers may choose to release players from their clubs, for which they will be offered compensation

Compensation will be paid as follows

£2 million – current international (must have played international rugby in the previous 12 months)
£1.5 million – former international
£1m – top flight experience
£0.5m – other

All released players will be deemed to have joined a Championship side and can be bid for on the National League Bidding page.

Retirements wrote:
There will be no compensation for retiring players. Should a player who retires decide to come out of retirement and play again, then he will automatically go back to the club who he was playing for in the game when he retired.

Fixtures wrote:
There will be 22 Aviva Premiership games per season, plus the play offs. There will also be European Rugby Champions Cup, European Rugby Challenge Cup and Anglo Welsh Cup matches. These games will take place once a week. A match thread will be put up every Monday. Home teams must be named by midnight on Tuesday. Away teams must be named by midnight on Wednesday. Failure to meet these deadlines is punishable by the addition of three match points to the oppositions final score, unless both sides fail to do so. Both teams must provide tactics by midnight on Thursday. Predictions will be open from 00:01 hours on Friday and remain open until 15:00 hours on Sunday. Managers will post the scores that they think will happen from these games (apart from games in which they are involved). An average of all predictions will be taken, and then 0.5 points added to each teams score for each prediction that had them as the winner, and that will then be the final score.

Managers are asked to provide detail as to why they have predicted a result. To be considered a descriptive prediction this must be a full 3 lines long when entered into the text box.

Teams wrote:
When naming your team, not only should you put the starting XV and replacements, but also tactics that your team will employ. Results will be affected by the tactics described.

In addition, each team must have the following:-

For domestic competition at least 8 England qualified players in your match day 23, and at least 4 of those must be in your starting XV.

For European competition at least 8 England qualified players in your match day 23, and at least 6 of those must be in your starting XV.

At least 2 props and 1 hooker on the bench.

All players must be eligible (not injured or banned).

Failure to comply with these rules will result in a 1 league point deduction.

If you fail to submit a team for a match, then the other team will be automatically awarded a 30-0 bonus point win. If both teams fail to submit a team, then it will be scored as a 0-0 draw.

Injuries and Suspensions wrote:
Injuries in this game do NOT reflect real life, they will be generated by me.

Players banned in real life will be ineligible for selection in this game for the duration of the ban.

Inclusion of injured/banned players will result in them being replaced by players on the bench, and the bench not having eight players, which may result in punishment if it concerns the front-row.

Punishment for fielding an ineligible player will be loss of one match point.

Financial Rewards wrote:
There will be no rewards for the result of an individual match, instead the managers will receive cash for predicting.

£2m for descriptive predictions
£0.25m for scores on the doors predictions
If you fail to predict without first advising me that you are unable to do so that week, you will be fined £1m for a first offence, £2m for a second offence, £3m for a third offence etc upto a maximum of £5m per fine.

AP finishing positions.

Champions: 8m
Runners Up: 6m
Playoff Semi Finalist Losers: 5m
5th: 4m
6th: 3.5m
7th: 3m
8th: 2.5m
9th: 2m
10th: 1.5m
11th: 1m
12th: 0.5m

Heineken Cup

Losing Quarter Finalists - £2 million each
Losing Semi Finalists - £3 million each
Runners Up - £4 million
Champions - £5 million

Amlin Challenge Cup

Losing Quarter Finalists - £1 million each
Losing Semi Finalists - £2 million each
Runners Up - £3 million
Champions - £4 million

Anglo-Welsh Cup

Losing Semi Finalist - £1 million each
Runners Up - £2 million
Champions - £3 million

If your budgets falls below minus £10 million for any reason, the administrators (SJE) will step in and players from within your squad will be released for the relevant financial compensation (foreign transfer value) in order to bring your budget back above minus £10 million.

by Sgt_Pooly Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:56 pm

Agree about Slade Pete, he looks the real deal. Ford has kicking issues and hes not going to get any bigger. He was a sure in this summer but is slipping further down the pecking order. Time will tell, the lad has some talent.

by Driver Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:08 pm

The All Blacks selectors, Steve Hansen, Ian Foster and Grant Fox, have today named a squad balanced with experience and youth for the 2014 Investec Rugby Championship.

The squad is as follows: (with province, Super Rugby team and Test caps).

Forwards:

Hookers
Dane Coles Wellington / Hurricanes (18)
Keven Mealamu Auckland / Blues (113)

Props
Wyatt Crockett Canterbury / Crusaders (27)
Charlie Faumuina Auckland / Blues (20)
Ben Franks Hawke's Bay / Hurricanes (31)
Owen Franks Canterbury / Crusaders (57)
Tony Woodcock North Harbour / Blues (110)

Locks
Dominic Bird Canterbury / Crusaders (1)
Brodie Retallick Bay of Plenty / Chiefs (27)
Patrick Tuipulotu Auckland / Blues (2)
Samuel Whitelock Canterbury / Crusaders (54)

Loose forwards
Sam Cane Bay of Plenty / Chiefs (14)
Jerome Kaino Auckland / Blues (51)
Steven Luatua Auckland / Blues (11)
Richie McCaw (c) Canterbury / Crusaders (127)
Liam Messam Waikato / Chiefs (32)
Kieran Read Canterbury / Crusaders (62)

Backs:

Halfbacks
Tawera Kerr-Barlow Waikato / Chiefs (14)
TJ Perenara Wellington/ Hurricanes (3)
Aaron Smith Manawatu / Highlanders (29)

First five-eighths
Beauden Barrett Taranaki / Hurricanes (19)
Daniel Carter Canterbury / Crusaders (100)
Aaron Cruden Manawatu / Chiefs (32)

Midfielders
Malakai Fekitoa Auckland / Highlanders (2)
Ma'a Nonu Wellington / Blues (91)
Conrad Smith Wellington / Hurricanes (77)

Outside backs
Israel Dagg Hawke's Bay / Crusaders (39)
Cory Jane Wellington / Hurricanes (48)
Charles Piutau Auckland / Blues (10)
Ben Smith Otago / Highlanders (29)
Julian Savea Wellington/ Hurricanes (22)

Crusaders and Canterbury prop Joe Moody has also been brought in as an injury replacement for Tony Woodcock who will miss the start of the Investec Rugby Championship with a shoulder injury.

The 31-strong squad, which will again be captained by the All Blacks indomitable, regular skipper Richie McCaw, features the return of the world's leading Test points scorer Daniel Carter, who is back in the national side after his extended break; and the return of Blues and Auckland outside back Charles Piutau and Chiefs and Bay of Plenty loose forward Sam Cane, who both missed the recent Steinlager Series against England through injury.

Chiefs and Bay of Plenty hooker Nathan Harris will assemble with the All Blacks for the domestic part of the season as part of his ongoing hooker "apprenticeship" with the national side.

Players from this year's Steinlager Series squad who have missed out on selection are the Crusaders and Canterbury trio of Colin Slade, Ryan Crotty and Matt Todd, while Hurricanes and Wellington loose forward Victor Vito and Crusaders and Canterbury lock Luke Romano were not considered for selection due to injury.

The squad is made up of 17 forwards (two hookers, five props, four locks and six loose forwards) and 14 backs (three halfbacks, three first five-eighths, three midfielders and five outside backs) and has a combined total of 1,272 Test caps (757 in the forwards and 515 in the backs) and an average age of 26.

The All Blacks squad will assemble on Wednesday this week for a two-day camp on Auckland's North Shore minus the eight players in the Crusaders, who will be preparing for this weekend's Super Rugby Final. In their absence, a number of other players will be brought into the camp: hookers Harris and the Hurricanes' Motu Matu'u; props Pauliasi Manu from the Chiefs and Highlander Kane Hames; Hurricanes lock Jeremy Thrush; loose forwards Liam Squire from the Chiefs and Shane Christie from the Highlanders.

All Blacks Head Coach Steve Hansen said the selectors had faced a difficult task in trimming the squad down to 31.

"In doing so, we had to leave out players who are performing at a very, very high level and they could consider themselves unlucky not to be selected. But while we feel for those guys, unfortunately, we have to make the hard decisions."

Hansen also said the selectors had been hugely impressed with the way the All Blacks players had been playing in the last month for their Investec Super Rugby teams and it augured well for the Investec Rugby Championship.

"We are now looking forward to bringing the players together and building on the progress we made in the Steinlager Series against England.

"The Investec Rugby Championship gives us the next opportunity to see where we are at and it doesn't get much bigger than back-to-back Bledisloe Cup Tests to kick it off.

"It's going to be another intense competition. South Africa and Australia are ranked second and third in the world and both had successful June Test series, while Argentina will again bring the physicality and passion which we know they are renowned for. They will also bring the knowledge and experience which comes from playing in The Rugby Championship and we are expecting them to improve further."

The squad features representation across all New Zealand's Investec Super Rugby teams with three Highlanders players, eight Crusaders, seven Hurricanes, five Chiefs and eight Blues, while ten provinces are represented, led by Auckland and Canterbury (seven players each) with Wellington (six); Waikato, Bay of Plenty, Hawke's Bay and Manawatu (two each); and Taranaki, North Harbour and Otago (one each).

Following the two-day camp this week, the All Blacks will re-assemble in Auckland on Thursday 7 August to prepare for the opening Test of the competition, the Bledisloe Cup clash against Australia in Sydney on Saturday 16 August.

The Investec Rugby Championship - All Blacks Tests
1. Australia (ANZ Stadium, Sydney, 8.05PM, Saturday 16 August)
2. Australia (Eden Park, Auckland, 7.35PM, Saturday 23 August)
3. Argentina (McLean Park, Napier, 7.35PM, Saturday 6 September)
4. South Africa (Westpac Stadium, Wellington, 7.35PM, Saturday 13 September)
5. Argentina (Estadio Ciudad de La Plata, La Plata, 7.10PM, Sat 27 September)
6. South Africa (Ellis Park, Johannesburg, 5.05PM, Saturday 4 October)

All Blacks - The Highlights

* Since the 2011 Rugby World Cup, the All Blacks have played 31 Tests, with 29 wins, one draw and one loss, for a winning record of 95 percent.

* The All Blacks head in to the Investec Rugby Championship on the back of an unbeaten season last year and a three-Test Steinlager Series victory over England in June.

* The All Blacks have won The Rugby Championship for the past two years, held The Bledisloe Cup (played between New Zealand and Australia) since 2003 and The Freedom Cup (played between New Zealand and South Africa) since 2010.

by **Ozzy3213** Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:47 am

The All Blacks will be favourites to win this again, but I think it will be a pretty close tournament and have a sneaky feeling that the Aussies might nick it.

by **Ozzy3213** Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:47 am

Anyone up for a bit of tinkering? Am looking to strengthen at 5, 12 and 13.

by Guest Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:11 am

Worrying thing about that NZ squad is that anyone asked to name their squad would have listed all those players. They have such a settled side and know their best team

by Sgt_Pooly Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:30 am

I am Pete, got plenty in those positions

by Steven_Sharks Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:40 am

Gents,

With regard to next season I'm really going to struggle to have the time for this game. The reason being I'm going to Australia in October for six months or so and I am not going to be able to commit to putting in a team each week not predict.

I don't really want to leave completely so I am wondering if a caretaker manager could be put in place whilst I'm away? Maybe Nick if he fancied it or someone already in the game?

by Driver Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:50 am

Iv got no issues with it Steve.

by Sgt_Pooly Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:52 am

I'm sure Bathite or Bam would take over, they'd need to be able to deals though I imagine or it would be pretty boring.

by Steven_Sharks Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:20 am

Yeah yeah that would be fine. Couldn't expect people to just pop in a team and predict,

Although Hooper would be untouchable!

by Guest Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:45 am

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_9398043,00.html

Team of the week time

by Sgt_Pooly Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:17 pm

Kinda pointless with 4 teams.

How the f did Kurindrinhi make it in???? He did absolutely nothing other than waste attacking overlaps, He makes Erinle look talented! AAC was a complete class above.

by prop_lyd Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:44 pm

Cheers for the team advice on the page pooly cider

by Fluxy Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:46 pm

If possible could someone please evaluate my best side, from my squad?

by Driver Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:31 pm

On nights tomorrow and Wednesday so here is my team if i'm not online to post it.

1.Matt Mullen
2.Rory Best
3.Carl Hayman
4.Ed Slater (c)
5.Geoff Parling
6.Dan Lydiate
7.Richie McCaw
8.Kieron Read

9.Nick Phipps
10.Owen Farrell (K)
11.Charles Pitatau
12.Jean De Villers
13.Marcelo Bosch
14.Cory Jane
15.Ben Smith

16.Dane Coles 17.Matt Stevens 18.Owen Franks 19.Dom Barrow 20.Dave Ewers 21.Dave Lewis 22.Rob Miller 23.Charlie Sharples

by ChequeredJersey Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:14 pm

Will be on hopefully Wednesday for a proper trading and bidding session. Officially starting as a doctor next week, lots of induction stuff now eek!

by Driver Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:27 pm

Can i have peoples thoughts on what my best team would be on my page please lads.

by ChequeredJersey Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:58 am

Mujati, Strauss, Rennie, Barkley and others all options for cash

by ChequeredJersey Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:40 am

Oh Laulala too

by dammit_chris Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:31 am

Have the following available - last 2/3 players require bigger deals, others not looking for much at all.

PR Sona Taumalolo (Tonga) (1)
PR Ben Afeaki (NZ) (3)
SH Mike Phillips (Wales)
FH Rhys Priestland (Wales)
CE Noa Nakaitaci (France)
FB Liam Williams (Wales)
SH/WG Nikola Matawalu (Fiji)
FH/CE/FB James Hook (Wales)

by Fluxy Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:11 am

Some big signings made by the Bulls - Strauss, Nykane and Lappies

by **Ozzy3213** Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:16 am

They needed them, particularly in the front row. Nyakane will be very good for them.

by prop_lyd Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:58 am

Does anyone have nyakane on here? I'm after a loosehead at the moment to cover.

by **Ozzy3213** Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:00 am

No mate, I was going to go for him but am already covered on the loosehead side.

by dammit_chris Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:05 am

Might be going for him prop...it is between him and a tighthead.

by prop_lyd Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:08 am

be nice now chris!!

by Driver Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:09 am

If anyone has the hooker Harry Allen in they're academy , he's been sacked by Harlequins and banned for a year.

by Driver Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:01 pm

Does anybody else think Dan Carter will play 12 for the All Blacks against Australia? I can see it happening as he's playing some good rugby there and Cruden should of done enough to keep 10,

9.Smith
10.Cruden
11.Jane
12.Carter
13.C Smith
14.Sevea
15.B Smith

Is a pretty tasty backline. Who needs crash ball when yoou'v got all the deception and movement in the world.

by Sgt_Pooly Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:14 pm

Carter just ok at 12, certainly no Nonu

by ChequeredJersey Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:49 pm

Carter at 10 or off the bench for me, depends whether they want a Piutau or a Barrett on the bench

by ChequeredJersey Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:18 pm

Driver wrote:If anyone has the hooker Harry Allen in they're academy , he's been sacked by Harlequins and banned for a year.

Heard he'd switched sports a few months ago, the story makes more sense now

by Guest Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:28 am

Substance abuse I read

by ChequeredJersey Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:31 am

Yep, coke

by Guest Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:38 am

ChequeredJersey wrote:Carter at 10 or off the bench for me, depends whether they want a Piutau or a Barrett on the bench

Carter a very good 12 but nonu better. You need a physical threat to occupy defenders and make defences think

by Sgt_Pooly Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:00 am

anonmattyt wrote:
ChequeredJersey wrote:Carter at 10 or off the bench for me, depends whether they want a Piutau or a Barrett on the bench

Carter a very good 12 but nonu better. You need a physical threat to occupy defenders and make defences think

Carter an average 12, jury still out on him at 10 really after last couple of seasons. Cruden has been the better FH for last 2/3 years, good test for Carter.

by LukeLovesLuka Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:04 pm

Leave for south of France tomorrow for 10 days so unlikely to be predicting. Will try and get a side in but if I don't if someone could stick one in for me that would be great.

by Guest Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:17 pm

Article on the March ups in s15 final

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_9400613,00.html

One of the better ones

by ChequeredJersey Fri Aug 01, 2014 9:47 am

Rennie or Barclay can be available, as is Poitrenaud and some of my back 3

by Guest Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:34 pm

Adam jones been offered pay as you play deal by bristol. Further medical still inconclusive and waiting on other tests.

Still some French clubs interested also apparently as well as ospreys. Seems he is being a diva over wages

by Sgt_Pooly Fri Aug 01, 2014 5:00 pm

He's not in a great position to barter really, he was dreadful last season under the new laws.

by ChequeredJersey Fri Aug 01, 2014 5:07 pm

Great hair though

by Sgt_Pooly Fri Aug 01, 2014 5:15 pm

Outstanding hair

by Guest Fri Aug 01, 2014 5:24 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Outstanding hair

As
Someone who was bald at 17 him and Duncan jones were a waste of hair as the " hair bear" front row.

Agree pooly he should take whatever.

Been stuck in London for 4 hours
Due to paddington trains not running with my mate who
Coaches bristol.

Part of the jones medical issues were shoulder and others due to actual physical condition. Could last 3 seasons or be finished is the opinion.

Jack Lam training and definitely playing. Had poor fitness
assesment surprisingly which shows the different ways we assess players to SH

He thinks this warbs to saints has legs

by Sgt_Pooly Fri Aug 01, 2014 5:27 pm

I could see Warbs to Saints.

Jones was untouchable under old laws, his bulk and technique with the hit were ideal. He can't hold it in new laws, his fall from grace has been pretty dramatic, got ruined in SA

by Guest Fri Aug 01, 2014 5:27 pm

Watching sky sports news the Samoan red
Card in England women's game was horrific.

Still a waste of time though

by Guest Fri Aug 01, 2014 5:32 pm

Would not write jones off. New laws have negated hit but can be sorted.

Has a habit of getting unfit by his
Own words. When he does he is poor. Usually comes back strong though.

Lots of th struggled with new laws but starting to now get to grips.

Lh have had it easy under new laws
And been able to attack from first scrum. Starting to even out now. Th having different weights and fitness regimes to adapt. Much more endurance resistance than huge explosive low reps

by Guest Fri Aug 01, 2014 5:35 pm

The squarer th will find it easier and more technical ones.

Hope figallo is fit
As he was technically one of best I have ever seen and a lump.

Ayerza Healy and beast as more athletic lh benefit under the new laws as can use their gym strength and explosiveness

by ChequeredJersey Fri Aug 01, 2014 5:45 pm

And Marler

by Guest Fri Aug 01, 2014 5:46 pm

Yes forgot marler. 100%

Woodcock out until 2015 saw it
On NZ herald Alert earlier and http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_9401083,00.html

by Guest Fri Aug 01, 2014 5:57 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I could see Warbs to Saints.

Jones was untouchable under old laws, his bulk and technique with the hit were ideal. He can't hold it in new laws, his fall from grace has been pretty dramatic, got ruined in SA

He said this central contract rule in prem is nonsense as it's restraint of trade and not enforceable it's more of a agreement in principle. Warbs fits saints well. Him wood Dickinson/manoa is tidy.

Also said that Cardiff could get funded to sign him as welsh rugby set up will be in tatters if he leaves.

Bristol get offered everyone and are often used to help players get a better contract at their own clubs. Was saying they have been naive and wised up as had so many players come
For medical and walk around and comparative few sign like Awj etc.

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