UEFA Champions & Europa League 2014-15 Season Thread

[Fernando]

First topic message reminder :

All places to talk Champions & Europa League  football for this season  

Champions League Round of 16 Draw

PSG vs Chelsea
Man City vs Barcelona
Bayer Leverkusen vs Atletico Madrid
Juventus vs Dortmund
Schalke vs Real Madrid
Shaktar Donetsk vs Bayern Munich
Arsenal vs Monaco
Basel vs Porto


Arsenal - Monaco
Celtic - Inter Milan
Chelsea - PSG
Everton - Young Boys
Hull - OUT
Liverpool - OUT of CL dropped into Europa League - Besiktas
Man City - Barcelona
Man Utd - Swansea 21st February (It's about as close to European football as your getting this year) 
Tottenham - Fiorentina

[compelling and rich]

take the qpr v liverpool game for instance, wouldnt not have happened in spain. qpr awful team but found a weakness and humped it up to zamora all game. not very technical but it worked and the game was a cracker because of it

[Duty281]

I honestly think the best league in the world is the Premier League. I think the competition is greater for positions throughout the league, I think the pace and style of the football is more interesting, I think the variation in football is more interesting, I think the English league structure is a huge positive and brings exciting teams into the mix each year, I think there is a higher standard of top clubs that are more thinly spread than in Spain, Italy or Germany and I think we are generally better run than them all except the Germans who have a wonderful model.

Perfectly summed up.

[Hammersmith harrier]

This debate always seem to centre around comparing the elite of each country which in itself shows the strength of the EPL in comparison to any other league. Spain has Madrid and Barcelona (too soon to include Atletico), the Bundesliga has Bayern and Dortmund while the EPL has Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal and until 13 months ago Man United.

Beyond that the gap grows and grows, such is the money in the Premier League that teams like Tottenham have no incentive in winning the Europa league until this year. Why for instance would Tottenham target winning it when a single place in the EPL would earn them more money?

[GSC]

Because they'd get a CL spot

[Hammersmith harrier]

Starting from this year but as I alluded to in my post that wasn't the case last year.

[kingraf]

I do struggle to understand how it's too soon to count the Defending La Liga champions, but it's okay to count a team with no league titles since 2004. La Liga also has had four different teams finish in the top eight of Europe last two seasons, and there's five points separating the top five at the moment.

[kingraf]

Geez this Lamela guy is pretty handy. Two sensational strikes

[NickisBHAFC]

Lamela what a man. Harry Kane what a man. Tony Hibbert what a man.

Good night for the British sides in this poxy tournament.

[super_realist]

I honestly think the best league in the world is the Premier League. I think the competition is greater for positions throughout the league, I think the pace and style of the football is more interesting, I think the variation in football is more interesting, I think the English league structure is a huge positive and brings exciting teams into the mix each year, I think there is a higher standard of top clubs that are more thinly spread than in Spain, Italy or Germany and I think we are generally better run than them all except the Germans who have a wonderful model.

Perfectly summed up.

I think we might be confusing the entertainment value with actual quality.

I don't think anyone could argue the quality is highest in the EPL, but you could make a subjective claim to the entertainment level.

[Stella]

Lamela's goal was terrific. Might have got a roasting if he had fluffed it though.

[mystiroakey]

SR.

The talk about a subjective claim on entertainment. well anyone could subjectively also state the the MLS or the SPL is the best entertainment for them as well. Thats not worth discussing. Its like preferring a type of music of a piece of art work.

In regards to entertainment in a non subjective way- The PL isnt just the most watched football league in the world- It is the most watched sporting league in the world.. Yes just because Nolans interstellar may gross 1 billion in its first two days doesnt mean its the best. But it has appeal. as you said before the PL is marketed well. But I think what helps it is that it has so many players from around the globe. In the WC the PL had players from 31 teams out of 32 in the WC squads that competed.. So it is open and naturally people like a world league if they are forign to that league.

In reagrds to quality what we could discuss and sadly the only thing we could discuss is the average value of player and teams worth. and that is highest in the PL. Now i dont like using that as a gauge as i also feel the values of players are not perfect so its a slightly arbitrary measure. I would rather people watch the games and decide for themselves- But you dont watch football as you admit time after time...

I think Dolphs post is perfect and sums up a lot of what i have said before. But i also think C&R raised some interesting pointers.

Look at Arsenal- The PL's 4th best team every year for a decade... They play one way. They try and go toe to toe with everyone. That usually beats lesser sides with ease. But as soon as they come up against a chelsea or city they get beat and they can get beat bad!!- I think Roma tried the same with bayern. Heck brazil certainly did with Germany

half the teams in the Pl are like stoke or WBA or Palace- these teams have ultimate respect for other teams and they play a certain way. Heck even chelsea play a certain way against certain teams..

Swansea almost went out the PL last season for sticking to there style. The style is fine(and an asset to the pl in regards to quality and variation) but they didnt quite have the depth to produce on the UEFA front and the PL front.

The whole of La liga plays that way- they all try to emulate the best in the league and by god they get punished for it. The PL doesn't. The PL has a variety of styles , but ultimately every team(bar a couple) is playing to win, not look pretty.

[super_realist]

I think the issue Oakey is that you have this odd idea that the strength in depth in the EPL is really good and better than other leagues, but when you consider some of the dross in there, i'm not so sure. There a 3 distinct divisions within one league with the bottom 6-7 in the EPL being truly atrocious, that doesn't really show depth at all.
There's always just 2 teams fighting it out for the league, and in most leagues.

I think the issue is simply that you prefer the EPL to other leagues, nothing wrong with that, but it isn't sufficient to claim it's the best league when it comes to quality or the standard of players within it.

Compare the bottom 5 in the Bundesliga with the bottom 5 in the EPL, I'm pretty sure the EPL bottom 5 would get tanked by at least 4 of them.

[mystiroakey]

No its not that at all. I think the world prefers the PL. And I support a bottom 5 pl team. And I know we would give the bottom 10 bundesliga sides a great game. I would even go as far to say that Nottingham forest and Watford would as well.

I think your fundamental problem is that you don't watch enough football. You can't see the finer details. The German league is a cracking product but not for week in week out competitive matches. But as mentioned its brilliant for there national team and brilliant for Bayern.

The pl has 3 teams that are moving heaven and hell to be the best(man u, city and Chelsea). LA liga has 2 but the bundes has 1.

[GSC]

Fortunately the PL doesn't have to concern itself with the welfare of the national team

[Stella]

La Liga teams do tend to do well in the Europa League, which suggests strength in depth, at least for the top 7 sides.

[mystiroakey]

Every single week palace give sides a game. No one thinks its a banker game and yet we are probally the least valuable side in the pl bar maybe Leicester.

Last 2 games v probally the 4th best team in the world(Chelsea) has ended up 2-2 on aggregate.

Arsenal go there last season and get beat 6-0.

But arsenal beat us and allways beat us. But never by a large amount. They got there lucky 90 minute winner in the opener when we were managerless. West ham then beat us convincingly. But still only by a two goal margin . but we took our foot of the gas , probally due to beating them twice last season. West ham are a good side and pulis knew that last season. Millen probally didn't this season.

Palace don't get beat big ever. We never do. We compete in almost every single game and this is as said by one of if not the least valuable club in the division.

If I was a Sunderland fan I may have a very different perspective on things . but I am not . I am a palace fan. And we give it our all every single game. Win lose or draw. We would not get tonked by a bottom half bundes side and that's not just a fans perspective. I am sure every fan knows that.

[mystiroakey]

La Liga teams do tend to do well in the Europa League, which suggests strength in depth, at least for the top 7 sides.

They did do well. A lot of the teams that won it say the 10 years before the last 5 where from cl drop out though. The pl for that sustained period rarely got any teams dropping out in to the uefa cup from the cl. We constantly had 4 teams going through.

Obviously things may be very different now. This season. With the added incentive of cl footy(worth 50m plus as well) we could have Everton, Tottenham and Liverpool fighting out for it.

[super_realist]

No its not that at all. I think the world prefers the PL. And I support a bottom 5 pl team. And I know we would give the bottom 10 bundesliga sides a great game. I would even go as far to say that Nottingham forest and Watford would as well.

I think your fundamental problem is that you don't watch enough football. You can't see the finer details. The German league is a cracking product but not for week in week out competitive matches. But as mentioned its brilliant for there national team and brilliant for Bayern.

The pl has 3 teams that are moving heaven and hell to be the best(man u, city and Chelsea). LA liga has 2 but the bundes has 1.

Ha ha ha, have you seen the bottom 5 of the bundesliga? Dortmund, Stuttgart, Hamburg, Freiburg and Werder Bremen.
I really can't see Palace, QPR, West Ham, Newcastle or Burnley giving them a good game.

I don't deny the English league is good, and of a higher quality than most, but there are a lot of very average teams in there, just like every other league. I'm not saying that any league is better than others or has more strength in depth but I really can't see how the EPL is better than any other league.

You keep saying that the Bundesliga is set up for Bayern, but they've won precisely the same number of Championships in the last 6 years as Man United, and the Bundesliga have had MORE different winners in the last 10 years than the EPL. Which is more predictable?

[mystiroakey]

The bundesliga only has 18 teams sr.

So apart from the fact we all know dortmound will be out of there bottom 5 soon you have to chop the bottom 2 off the pl for a comparible position.

[Stella]

They should start up that anglo-Italian cup, but replace Italy with spain. That will settle a few arguments, even though that was 2nd tier stuff from memory.

[super_realist]

The bundesliga only has 18 teams sr.

So apart from the fact we all know dortmound will be out of there bottom 5 soon you have to chop the bottom 2 off the pl for a comparible position.

Ok, but that makes it even worse for the PL.

[mystiroakey]

They should start up that anglo-Italian cup, but replace Italy with spain. That will settle a few arguments, even though that was 2nd tier stuff from memory.

Well I think with the change to the ueaf cup (winners get a cl spot)will make the difference in the coming years. But I think we should stop parachuting teams from the CL into the comp..

[Stella]

They should start up that anglo-Italian cup, but replace Italy with spain. That will settle a few arguments, even though that was 2nd tier stuff from memory.

Well I think with the change to the ueaf cup (winners get a cl spot)will make the difference in the coming years. But I think we should stop parachuting teams from the CL into the comp..

Definitely.

[mystiroakey]

The bundesliga only has 18 teams sr.

So apart from the fact we all know dortmound will be out of there bottom 5 soon you have to chop the bottom 2 off the pl for a comparible position.

Ok, but that makes it even worse for the PL.

No It doesn't . we chop of Burnley and qpr. Basing the English leagues best 14th to 18th compared the Germans 14th to 18th can only logically make it fairer and strengthen the pl's position.

You were comparing the Germans 14th to 18th to the English leagues 16th to 20th...

And you were also basing it on a snap shot. And even with the teams you mention (from an illogical comparison) I could see all the teams giving the others  a good run out bar Dortmund, who like Everton in the Premier leagues 13th spot will improve on there position very quickly.

[monty junior]

La Liga teams do tend to do well in the Europa League, which suggests strength in depth, at least for the top 7 sides.

Yea for all the stick they get i always found smaller Spanish sides the toughest opposition when Rangers would be in the UEFA/Europa. They were very good technically, against each other they maybe cancel each other out but they do dominate the EL. Celta last year almost got to the quarters when rock bottom of La Liga.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

I honestly think the best league in the world is the Premier League. I think the competition is greater for positions throughout the league, I think the pace and style of the football is more interesting, I think the variation in football is more interesting, I think the English league structure is a huge positive and brings exciting teams into the mix each year, I think there is a higher standard of top clubs that are more thinly spread than in Spain, Italy or Germany and I think we are generally better run than them all except the Germans who have a wonderful model.

Perfectly summed up.

I think we might be confusing the entertainment value with actual quality.

I don't think anyone could argue the quality is highest in the EPL, but you could make a subjective claim to the entertainment level.

I suppose it comes down to personal opinion there, and of course that is only natural with entertainment. Its personally to my suiting, unsurprising because ive grown up with it but it might also be that my attention span can be short as hell and some spanish and italian games can drift into very slow, rhythmic games

[monty junior]

Tonights games

Juventus vs Olympiakos
Arsenal vs Anderlecht 
Borussia Dortmund vs Galatasaray
Zenit vs Bayer Leverkusen
Basel vs Ludogorets
Real Madrid vs Liverpool
Malmo FF vs Athletico Madrid
Benfica vs Monaco

A bad result for Juve and they could be on the brink of being knocked out, BVB,Arsenal,Leverkusen and Real Madrid all able to qualify tonight.

[monty junior]

Fantastic all round goal by Leverkusen.

[Mat]

Liverpool XI vs Real Madrid:

Mignolet, Manquillo, Toure, Skrtel, Moreno, Allen, Can, Lucas, Markovic, Lallana, Borini. Subs; Jones, Johnson, Gerrard, Henderson, Coutinho, Sterling, Balotelli

Madrid XI;

Casillas, Arbeloa, Ramos, Varane, Marcelo, Kroos, Modric, James Rodriguez, Isco, Ronaldo, Benzema. Subs; Navas, Pepe, Bale, Chicharito, Nacho, Medran, Lucas Torro

Rodgers giving up before the game even begins?

[Duty281]

Ah gorgeous Fabio Borini up front.

Madrid 4-0? Worth a tenner.

[compelling and rich]

liverpool waving the white flag before kick off

[GSC]

I'd be embarrassed to be a Liverpool fan. Sticking out a COC side at the Bernabeu is a disgrace

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Wait years and years to get into the CL, make a huge deal of it, then give up. Pathetic really from rodgers

If I was a player left on the bench in the bernabeu I'd be fuming, absolutely fuming. These are the games you play the game for

[kingraf]

This is disrespectful. I hope we slaughter them. Stevie G isn't going to have many more chances to play at the Bernebeau. Poor Sterling isn't even being given a chance to properly assess his home next season!

[kingraf]

Oh Sterling is playing? Local station says he isn't.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Benchy bench.

Pragmatism, sure the Pool fans will love it

[GSC]

He isnt.

Its a complete embarassment. I hope the club refund any fans in Madrid

[JDizzle]

They'd better beat Chelsea on Saturday now...

[Guest]

Embarrassing side. Gerrard retired from international football to prolong his career & make games like this. After this game, he's got four days until the Chelsea game & then he's got two Fuc***g weeks off because he doesn't play international football anymore. Embarrassing. Why even fly over there & fatigue the body.

Hopefully a Madrid thrashing, good to see Bale get on too & rip Moreno another one, like he did when he was playing for Sevilla.

[kingraf]

What the phuck? Henderson isn't even playing! We put out our best team two weeks ago, and we had an away clásico three days later

[Dolphin Ziggler]

It feels kinda like Liverpool are playing a Roy Evans Liverpool side whereas Real Madrid are playing in the present

[kingraf]

To be fair though, we've done our bit by playing Arbeloa.

[mystiroakey]

This side is 20 times better than the supposed first 11...Not sure what's embarrassing about it.

Ok I have 20 minutes of hindsight

[Steffan]

GET IN THERE

[Fernando]

Arsenal 1-0 - Arteta Pen
Madrid 1-0 - Benzema

[Fernando]

Arsenal 2-0 - Alexis

[kingraf]

How aren't we at least three up?

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Benchy bench.

Pragmatism, sure the Pool fans will love it

"Let's prioritise getting into the top four so we can put out our reserve team to concentrate on getting into the top four"

And so on and so forth

[kingraf]

Fantastic Olly. Highlighted the ridiculous thinking perfectly.

[Fernando]

Arsenal 3-0 - Chamberlain

[Sponsored content]