What happens to the British and Irish Lions 'IF' Scotland say Yes?

So what happens to the British and Irish Lions 'IF' Scotland says Yes?

Surely not 'The British, Irish and Scottish Lions'?   

I think at that point a re-brand to "The Lions" is probably the best bet!

Yeah i would agree...the Lions, or   

Ban the Scots and Southern Irish folk from being part of it...and call it the British Lions with erm...England and Wales and a wee bit of Ireland.

If the Scottish say YES to what?

Remember not all of us live in Europe and know what you are talking about.

Politics Bilts, Scotland want to Break away like the Republic of Ireland (Southern Ireland) did.

The vote is at the end of September.

Thanks mate, what are the chances of that happening?

If you take out "undecides" recent polls suggest 40% Yes and 60% No.

So it will be close, either way.

And most of the 60% would be the 16-18 yo we hate England Brigade. They shouldnt even be allowed a vote...its just that Salmond (or Toad of Toad hall) is running scared he's given them all votes.

I hope they say No.

Although there is a suggestion we should have a referendum if we want to keep them   

How come 16 year olds are allowed to vote on this?

Getting back to rugby (I'm not allowed to talk about politics on here....), here's a question:

If Ireland and Scotland were to split from the "British" Lions and become the "Celtic" Tigers, and there was to be a contest between the two teams (provisional sides below), who would win:

British Lions XV

1.Corbisiero 2.Hibbard 3.Cole 4.A-W Jones 5.Lawes 6.Wood 7.Warburton 8.Vunipola 9.Care 10.Farrell 11.North 12.Roberts 13.JD2 14.Cuthbert 15.Brown

Celtic Tigers XV

1.Healy 2.Best 3.Murray 4.R Gray 5.POC 6.Brown 7.SOB 8.Heaslip 9.Murray 10.Sexton 11.Zebo 12.Scott 13.Earls 14.Maitland 15.Kearney

Because Alex " the toad" Salmond wasnt confident so opened it up to all the 16-18 lot aswell

British Lions XV

1.Corbisiero 2.Hibbard 3.Cole 4.A-W Jones 5.Lawes 6.Wood 7.Warburton 8.Vunipola 9.Care 10.Farrell 11.North 12.Roberts 13.JD2 14.Cuthbert 15.Brown

If Gatland was in charge it wouldnt be that team   

Will much change? Not too much Scottish representation on the Lions tour last time round... There's been more Scottish representation in Westminster in the last 10 years than the Lions tour.....    

Joke aside I wish the Scots all the best on their referendum and in general. Personally I think there are too many questions unanswered by Salmond about independence like the pound and EU etc but we'll see in september.

I want Britain to stay united but also keep the friendly rivalries.

 Surprised there is not more cries of this!   

British Lions vs Celtic Tigers

Predictions?

Isnt Great Britain the landmass thats made up of England, Scotland and Wales? So if Scotland were to leave the UK they would still be part of Britain and thus the Lions would need no rebranding?

Scrumpy wrote:British Lions vs Celtic Tigers

Predictions?

British Lions to win by 10 points.

Maybe 26-16?

British, Irish and token, bench-warming Scot Lions sounds too unwieldy. Then again if you send a 60-man squad with a press officer, I think you could just about spin it right to make it seem palatable...

GeordieFalcon wrote:And most of the 60% would be the 16-18 yo we hate England Brigade. They shouldnt even be allowed a vote...its just that Salmond (or Toad of Toad hall) is running scared he's given them all votes.

I hope they say No.

Although there is a suggestion we should have a referendum if we want to keep them   

Geordie, the 60% for NO is a NO to independence not a NO to staying in the UK

Voters will be asked the yes/no question: "Should Scotland be an independent country?"

beshocked wrote:

Scrumpy wrote:British Lions vs Celtic Tigers

Predictions?

British Lions to win by 10 points.

Maybe 26-16?

Aren't the Welsh Celts also? Could the Welsh selct who to play for?

They are, strictly speaking, but I didn't want the English to feel that we were all ganging up on them!

funnyExiledScot wrote:They are, strictly speaking, but I didn't want the English to feel that we were all ganging up on them!

From my time in Wales how awks would it be to be playing for or supporting the British Lions v the Celtic Tigers when you have Celtic tattoos running up every arm and leg   

That's true, but I'm sure Alex Cuthbert and George North wouldn't mind too much, and you could even play Ben Morgan at number 8....

Dewi Morris would be the coach, obviously.

What about the Cornish?

Has Phil Vickery not retired?

Neutralee wrote:

beshocked wrote:

Scrumpy wrote:British Lions vs Celtic Tigers

Predictions?

British Lions to win by 10 points.

Maybe 26-16?

Aren't the Welsh Celts also? Could the Welsh selct who to play for?

Em...the Cornish are Celts too.  Indeed, the word British is a blunt acknowledgement of Celtic roots (for they were Celts them ancient Britons) rather than anything Germano-Anglo-Saxon.  So em...the Irish and Scots and Welsh and..em Cornish people (well the ancient ones)... are actually more 'British' Lions than the British Lions would be without any of 'em.

Work all that lot out!

Oh Scrumpy got there before me...

PenfroPete wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:And most of the 60% would be the 16-18 yo we hate England Brigade. They shouldnt even be allowed a vote...its just that Salmond (or Toad of Toad hall) is running scared he's given them all votes.

I hope they say No.

Although there is a suggestion we should have a referendum if we want to keep them   

Geordie, the 60% for NO is a NO to independence not a NO to staying in the UK

Voters will be asked the yes/no question: "Should Scotland be an independent country?"  

Your absolutely right...i got myself mixed up...it is Friday after all...

Given we provide nothing more than tunnock tea cakes and the team doctor to the squad I don't think it would make a huge difference.

 FA....

My regular trips to Rutherglen....Iron Brew, Tunnocks, Square Sausages in those fabuous buns, tattie scones! Aw i miss those days.

fa0019 wrote:Given we provide nothing more than tunnock tea cakes and the team doctor to the squad I don't think it would make a huge difference.

You're Scottish?

Hmmmm...never knew that. Was always confused about where exactly you came from. Is he English or South African was always my query and I was always much too polite to ask....

truth hurts geordie.
 
Can't exactly claim maitland now can we. In truth he's about as Scottish as spaghetti.

Scottish living in South Africa was where i thought he was from...

SecretFly wrote:

fa0019 wrote:Given we provide nothing more than tunnock tea cakes and the team doctor to the squad I don't think it would make a huge difference.

You're Scottish?

Hmmmm...never knew that.  Was always confused about where exactly you came from.  Is he English or South African was always my query and I was always much too polite to ask....

 
Scottish, worked in England prior to moving to SA dude. Not a problem.... hell, I've given up telling people I'm scottish in SA, to them I'm English. "So you're from Scotland, ah ok, hey everyone this is FA.... from England".

hell, I've given up telling people I'm scottish in SA, to them I'm English. "So you're from Scotland, ah ok, hey everyone this is FA.... from England"..

Thats ok, i keep getting told by those Soft Southern Fairies that Newcastle is a small town in Scotland....

Your real name is Fa? No wonder they don't think you're Scottish.   

Ok then FA....crunch time, though you cant vote...are you a yes or no man.

My mother is from glasgow and she is a no'er. I would say i am too.

Or am i getting too Political for the thread now...  

For me its a no but I'm from a unionist family so its kind of a given.
 
One thing I would say though is that I hate the chat about in which scenario though would people be better off.
 
If independence really mattered to people like it did to chaps like Nelson Mandela.... it shouldn't matter if you're 1k better off or 20k worse off. Your freedom (or your sense of freedom) should mean more than a few quid and if it means could have to buy tesco's value rather than tesco's finest then so be it.
 
We all know the oil argument is rubbish anyhow. For 10 years we'll be fine but thereafter once its all dry Scotland will be relying on tax revenues from those income juggernauts IRNBRU, Highland Spring and White & MacKay Whisky.
 
The notion about how Scotland will be the 4th highest GDP nation in the world is laughable.... all done on voodoo economics.
 
I'd admire anyone who wants independence inspite of the above but in truth I think if that was how it was set out (i.e. the brutal truth) it wouldn't be 60:40 it would be 85:15.
 
Can't see a Yes vote unless David Cameron does something really stupid, and I mean really stupid (think Zidane's headbutt in 2006) like simply show his face on TV on voting day, the swing required is too great.

We could also have Bretons, Cumbrians, Manx ....etc -

http://www.brittanytourism.com/things-to-do/events/brittany-s-main-events/festival-interceltique-de-lorient-1-10-august-2014

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festival_Interceltique_de_Lorient

  

fa0019 wrote:  
One thing I would say though is that I hate the chat about in which scenario though would people be better off.
 
If independence really mattered to people like it did to chaps like Nelson Mandela.... it shouldn't matter if you're 1k better off or 20k worse off. Your freedom (or your sense of freedom) should mean more than a few quid and if it means could have to buy tesco's value rather than tesco's finest then so be it.
 
.

       We may have different views FA but I 100% agree with above To me it's not about £££££ (leave that to the Tories) it's what's in your gut, your soul. your heart

By Oppression's woes and pains!
By your sons in servile chains!
We will drain our dearest veins,
But they shall be free!

Lay the proud usurpers low!
Tyrants fall in every foe!
Liberty's in every blow!
Let us do or die!”

Jeez. This just got weird.

Let's say Scotland gains independence. My understanding from the independence question here is that they are not not given automatic qualification to the EU. There is a big waiting list. It's alright if you're a big nation but if you're relatively small on the population front, you run the risk of losing your voice in the international scene without the support of a bigger body behind you.

From a currency point of view, I guess they could stick to the Scottish pound but that'd take a nose-dive in relation to the pound sterling. Not a bad thing for exporters but imports would escalate in price and inflation could potentially get out of control.

What would happen to Scots working in Europe? I myself am entitled to work in Europe from my Scottish father. I have lived long enough in Spain and am married to a Spanish national for that not to be a problem but what would happen to those Scots formerly on a British passport?

When you think of all the consequences of independence, it really does make the mind boggle at how things would quickly change.

As Duncan Bannatyne says: 'I'm out'.

Duncan Bannatyne is actually a "No" voter as it happens.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Duncan Bannatyne is actually a "No" voter as it happens.

Of course he is...he thinks economics when he thinks at all. Back to Fa's point.

When I said I'm out, I meant to the idea of independence as well as a giant rubber inner suit for watching rugby and drinking beer in the blissful knowledge that your viewing need not be interrupted.

Kia - this is really the wrong forum for a debate but
On the EU - there are 6 million eu citizens in Scotland - there is no mechanism for striping us of this. all our law is compliant with EU law. We will remain in the EU ( all sensible independent commentators agree - ignore Barruso - he is talking to the catalan separatists) We will have to negotiate precise terms of membership but as we would have the majority of the EUs oil, a huge amount of fish grounds etc. As for a voice - at the momnet scotland has no voice at all- for instance fishing rights were traded away for something to Englands advantage

On currency - ina currency union there would be strong advanages to both sides due to reduced barriers to trade adn the oil money would make the £ stronger - without the il money in a pound zone the pound would be weaker.

A scottish currency would be strong because of the oil.
I would like a better answer tho

there would be no effect on Scots in europe - they will have a choice of scottish or rUK passports and as we are all in the EU ( until rUK leaves) then there is no issie

As for the lions - no effect at all - we already have players from Eire in the lions

Kia,

Not just the EU issue but also currency, as Westminster have said they cant use the "pound". And they need a currency to go in to the EU.

I believe they have suggest the Dobbie, an old currency....but i think it is situations like these...unanswered questions that are swaying people...Salmond is not giving actual answers.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Let's say Scotland gains independence. My understanding from the independence question here is that they are not not given automatic qualification to the EU. There is a big waiting list. It's alright if you're a big nation but if you're relatively small on the population front, you run the risk of losing your voice in the international scene without the support of a bigger body behind you.

From a currency point of view, I guess they could stick to the Scottish pound but that'd take a nose-dive in relation to the pound sterling. Not a bad thing for exporters but imports would escalate in price and inflation could potentially get out of control.

What would happen to Scots working in Europe? I myself am entitled to work in Europe from my Scottish father. I have lived long enough in Spain and am married to a Spanish national for that not to be a problem but what would happen to those Scots formerly on a British passport?

When you think of all the consequences of independence, it really does make the mind boggle at how things would quickly change.

As Duncan Bannatyne says: 'I'm out'.

Obviously it is the UK that is a member of the EU, not the individual units as single entities - as in England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland didn't sign individual treaties.  
So therefore, in a legal framework, Scotland choosing to leave the UK is not really an issue for the EU - or rather the remaining parts of the Union (England, Wales, Northern Ireland) are as much in EU limbo as regards EU membership as the Independent Scots.  It was the UK as a political entity that joined the EU.  Therefore, who is to legally say England, Wales and Northern Ireland should automatically remain part of the EU whilst Scotland must reapply?  The UK as it was known will be ended but EU membership was a UK (including Scotland) treaty.  The remainer of the Union has as little right to be an automatic continuing member as Scotland has.

That is not my understanding of how it happens. As is stands, Scotland is part of the UK, which is part of the EU. If it moves for independence, it ceases to be part of the UK, and, therefore, loses its ties to EU membership. You have to formally ask for EU membership. You raise an interesting point Secret: would what would remain as the UK retain the right to be called the UK and would that said entity be entitled to EU membership?

Case in point. Kosovo gained independence from Serbia in 2008. The republic of Kosovo's independence was not recognised by Serbia and 5 other EU states. Although moving towards integrating its laws, policies, society and economy to fit EU requirements, it is yet to formally qualify for EU membership.

My understanding is that just because you had EU membership before, does not guarantee you retain EU membership after independence.