Interesting data on Monfils (and other players)

Let me show you some interesting and surprising data on Monfils (and other current players).
Monfils has won 5 ATP titles at 250 level in a 10 season career, and reached 1 slam semi (FO08) and 5 x QF.

Overall slam and Masters career



Career wins (Monfils = 15th best out of current players)



Performance vs Top 10 players (Monfils = 12th best)



Winning TBs (Monfils = 9th best)



Winning the deciding set (Monfils = 18th best)



Winning the 5th set (Monfils = 9th best...up to 2013 data)



Winning after losing 1st set (Monfils = 26th best)


So, what do you think...
Do the stats correlate with his Slam/Masters success?
Do you think he's underachieved or not?
Anything else jumps out of the stats?

Some answers may be found here
https://www.606v2.com/t44720-is-gael-monfils-the-biggest-underachiever-in-tennis-today

Cheers

My position as I wrote on the other thread before this is...

"The problem with Monfils is the crunch moments with the best players...it's not that he lacks the ability to focus matches in general, its not that he lacks focus against the top guys, it's that he lacks the ability to focus against the top guys in the top matches".

When the crunch comes at the highest level, he crumbles. The stats show he can beat top 10 players with aplomb, but perhaps not when it really matters...?

We'll never know for sure why that might be. He might not even know himself.
Fear of failure, fear of success, conscious/subconscious.
For example, if he subconsciously 'allows' himself to crumble, or play crazy shots, he can give himself a comforting excuse for losing ("I'm as talented as them, but my mind wanders/I prefer my style of play/I want to entertain the crown more").
If he were to knuckle down but still lose, his excuse would be gone - is that subconsciously affecting his play?
We'll never know.

This is what I wrote on the other thread as well

lydian wrote:The problem with Monfils is the crunch moments with the best players...it's not that he lacks the ability to focus matches in general, its not that he lacks focus against the top guys, it's that he lacks the ability to focus against the top guys in the top matches. A separate thread on this to shortly follow.

Now I am starting to agree with you, he lacks the ability to focus against the top players in top matches coz he hasn't put himself in that position regularly and once he starts doing that he can make surprise results look more normal and natural, yes a separate thread warranted for it but do it after USO, lets keep the focus on the semi's as of now.

JuliusHMarx wrote:We'll never know for sure why that might be. He might not even know himself.
Fear of failure, fear of success, conscious/subconscious.
For example, if he subconsciously 'allows' himself to crumble, or play crazy shots, he can give himself a comforting excuse for losing ("I'm as talented as them, but my mind wanders/I prefer my style of play/I want to entertain the crown more").
If he were to knuckle down but still lose, his excuse would be gone - is that subconsciously affecting his play?
We'll never know.

He lacks a killer shot aswell, fails to have a steady game when he loses his serve/set. After reaching his only SF in 2008 it looked like he would win multiple majors. Yet he stagnated and looks good only 3 or 4 times a season..

JM, Monfils lacks a killer shot the guy can serve north of 140 and hit his forehand in the one teens. That is a valid criticism of Ferrer or Monaco maybe but not of Monfils. The guy has killer shots in spades and athletic ability that is what is frustrating about his inability to break through.

And Lydian these stats on Monfils really aren't that great. He is top 20 or top 30 floater and has been for a long time and that is what these stats prove. The problem is that physically he is much more gifted than that.

Yeah was about to say, for all his faults, a killer shot isn't really one of them. Ninth best in fifth set wins is a bit of a surprise.

So you say he has these amazing things, but can't say why he hasn't broke through? Of course he's more attacking than Ferrer and Monaco and "killer shot" doesn't mean how hard he can hit we know he'll hit fiery FH's.

kingraf wrote:Yeah was about to say, for all his faults, a killer shot isn't really one of them. Ninth best in fifth set wins is  a bit of a surprise.

He has a killer shot that he can replicate? No, just hits fiery FH's few times per match and the rest he is rallying to wear you down

He can replicate, frankly his shots are not his main problem. The guy can blast 130-140 hour serves all the live long day and still blow matches to less gifted opponents. He has it in his bag and hits it often enough that if other issues (ie footwork and court positioning were worked out the import would be greater.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

kingraf wrote:Yeah was about to say, for all his faults, a killer shot isn't really one of them. Ninth best in fifth set wins is  a bit of a surprise.

He has a killer shot that he can replicate? No, just hits fiery FH's few times per match and the rest he is rallying to wear you down

Agreed here, he does posses killer shots but cannot exhibit consistently throughout a match or use it on the crisis hour.

Lets see

1]A Nadal will use his stamina to wear an opponent down and slow the momentum to seize it back

2]A Fed can rely on his serve and sleep the rest of the match to still stay in contention when things don't go his way.

3]A Djoko can rely on his returns on the hardest times like match points down to stay afloat.

4]A Murray can depend on his backhands to keep himself on the match when he is under pressure.

5]A Del Potro can hit fierce forehands like a bullet to punish the opponents if they seize control.

Monfils can do all these on normal times, but just cannot rely on any of them when the situation demands it.

His serve deserted him on the crisis hour, his forehand went long, his backhand panicked, so is his return , movements and stamina.

So yes good points JM.

JuliusHMarx wrote:We'll never know for sure why that might be. He might not even know himself.
Fear of failure, fear of success, conscious/subconscious.
For example, if he subconsciously 'allows' himself to crumble, or play crazy shots, he can give himself a comforting excuse for losing ("I'm as talented as them, but my mind wanders/I prefer my style of play/I want to entertain the crown more").
If he were to knuckle down but still lose, his excuse would be gone - is that subconsciously affecting his play?
We'll never know.

This is extremely interesting to me. It makes a lot of sense when you consider how many people are stifled by fear of failure in everyday life. You see it a lot in perfectionists, too. I wonder if this is part of the Monfils equation? Good hypothesis

Nice numbers lydian, the record against the top 10 jumps out at me a little. It's significantly higher than his average ranking, and would highlight both his rampant inconsistency and his capacity to play a blinder on occasion?

Nutshell version - difference between Monfils and the "topmost" guys.

His first match point, Federer hits a smash down centre of the court, one would think it would have been a "put away" for Federer but it wasn't.

Nadal, Djokovic, Murray - would have remained intensely focused on that ball, regardless of how futile it might seem, with the position Federer was in with Monfils' shot - that smash was a shot Nadal, Djokovic would have kept tracking and put away for the match. It appeared Monfils "disengaged" slightly and that was the difference - he was THERE, but hadn't stayed 100% zero'd in on that smash - and his stab reply went long.

We've all watched matches where 1, 2 3 points can be the difference between winning, and losing the match; aforementioned "Top 4" stay in the zone, and would have made that shot.

2nd MP, Federer dealt with the short ball perfectly and the rest is history. Take Monfils physical stature, his racquet skills - put that with Lendl's work ethic - and he'd be a multiple Major winner and have held the No 1 ranking for sure.

Whilst we can find some frustration in the lack of discipline and "percentage" tennis that Monfils exhibits, it is balanced with utter delight ad astonishment of what he CAN do with his racquet and body, that brings us to our feet in sheer astonishment, so regularly.

Perhaps with the former, we would never have seen so much of the latter. Still hope this may be a "changing" tournament for his focus, and who knows what we'll see if that's the case. If not, we'll just have to be satisfied with gasping at the highlight reels, whenever he's the subject! Great US Open for him, but could have been something more, alas!

What ifs are always heavy guesswork... If you gave Ferrer Monfils' gifts you'd have a multiple slam champion. But if you gave Monfils Ferrers ability, does he even take up tennis?

I remember reading an interview with Dale Steyn regarding that 76 in Melbourne, that the closer he got to a hundred, the more his mind began to lose track. Who was he ti score a Boxing Day hundred against Australia? Did he really have the ability? Surely it was bound to come to and... it did, of course, but I think Monfils had a similar episode vs federer. As it became a reality, his mind discombobulated, and when Federer saved those MPs, I think it confirmed his suspicions...