NZ vs SA

SA did not have a year to remember in the S15. They have not had a year to remember to date in the RC. I sense that SA are at a crossroads already before flying off to NZ. It was easy to put the first game down to an aberration to use McKenzie's words. The conditions were horrendous and Argentina have a pack that can take advantage of the inevitable set piece plays that result from those conditions. However, in hot, dry conditions Argentina were able to take the game to SA and only fell apart in the last quarter, as is their wont unfortunately.

So we came to Perth. Both teams coming off, in many aspects, humiliations in their previous outings. Unfortunately it panned out that both teams were not willing to take big risks. In Pienaar and Steyn, SA set the tone for how they want to play. It beggars belief when you see how SA scored their first try that they do not look to play in that manner more often. If you have the likes of Habana, Hendricks and Le Roux who are unquestionably among the best types of players you could hope for in test rugby to exploit the open spaces, it is criminal that SA throws so much of its possession away looking for a territorial game. It is like having a huge donger and being content to indulge in onanism. Share the fruits of your loins so to speak; don't keep them locked away out of sight.

Contrast that with NZ against Argentina. Confronted with a big pack to wear down, they could have been tempted in wet conditions to take it slowly and make a big push in the last quarter. When you look at the opportunities that were presented to them, they, like the Pumas, didn't have many opportunities. But therein lies the difference: when those opportunities presented themselves they took them. A classic example is the gift just before half time. The ball comes unexpectedly to the back of the NZ scrum and Smith passes to Barrett. The Argentinian defence was there but they had slid a tad too far out to the left. Barrett spots that break between the forwards and the backs and shifts to the inside and puts the hammer down. He links up with a support player in Messam further infield and a psychological blow is delivered just on half time.

When a team is within a score, they believe. Or at least they believe they are still capable of coming back. If you tick over the scoreboard regularly and increase the gap, you place pressure on your opposition. It is possible to do that with penalties and drop goals but when you score tries, it becomes much easier to give you a safety net. The next NZ try was another example of nothing much on. A set piece move and a combination of Barrett with soft hands providing an unexpected short pass and Savea running a good line and NZ go further ahead. Sure it was a pity Argentina were deprived of a rightful try to bring the game back into that important score (largely due to poor NZ goal kicking) but the point remains just as valid: if you score tries, you give yourselves the best possible chance of taking or maintaining the lead.

With the exception of Dunedin, when you play in winter in NZ the likelihood of wet, slippery conditions is high. However, that does not mean you should only play a low risk game. We saw in the Ellis Park test last year that the SA back row are adept at offloading cleverly to their backs. The frustrating thing I see from the Springboks is that they appear to have a default setting. They have a bad game but win. Instead of analysing that performance and recognising that they need to tweak their gameplan, they try to emulate their gameplan but execute it better. After the loss at Ellis Park, there were many Springbok supporters who claimed that instead of going for the tournament win, they should've resorted to type and gone for an attritional win and scored an important psychological victory over their main rival. The way SA have played to date in this RC, it seems that Meyer took those comments to heart.

NZ are without Kaino and Messam. They are down to Luatua and Cane will probably be the reserve back row forward. The other option is to make McCaw six and Cane at 7 and have Luatua as a reserve and possible lock cover. For it seems NZ are also without the services of Whitelock for the rest of the RC. With Tuipulotu, Romano and Bird out with injury, NZ are looking threadbare in the lock department. Thrush will come in to partner Retallick and it remains to be seen who the reserve lock will be. My feeling is that Meyer will be tempted to see these areas as a weakness and will look for a similar combative approach to the Eden Park test last year. I can only hope that we don't see the decisions like Clancy's yesterday and Poite's last year repeated but I think Meyer is missing the bigger picture if he chooses that approach.

Firstly, it appears the NZ set piece is very solid. Gone are the scrum frailties of last year. They had a wee patch, as Hansen said, against Argentina where it looked like they were getting monstered but contrast that with SA who looked frail there for most of the match in Argentina and NZ should be looking to have at least parity in that area. In terms of the lineout, it is often overlooked that past problems in this area are well and truly in the past. The NZ lineout is very efficient and Coles not only finds his jumpers with ease but NZ look to attack their lineout wins with the rolling maul. Whitelock will be missed in that regard but there are enough options in there for that not to be a worry.

Secondly, Meyer might be tempted to see NZ's goal kicking yesterday as a weakness and that Steyn could be a weapon in that regard to keep SA ahead. Barrett had a shocker with the boot but no doubt he will be working on that this week and his kicking stats in the S15 show that he is more than capable. While it is true the importance of a goal kicker at test level cannot be overstated, this must not come at the expense of how your goal kicker controls the game, especially if that goal kicker is at 10. If Pienaar and Steyn kick the ball as SA did in Dunedin a few years ago where NZ looked pretty average on attack, they are kicking themselves in the foot (excuse the pun). SA cannot play like NZ in the sense that their tight five forwards are not adept at a close-in passing game. But outside that, they do have that talent to meet the defence and get away passes. When a team finds space with the players at SA's disposal, they will cause any team, including NZ, a lot of strife. If they choose to put long kicks in and relieve the pressure on the NZ defensive line and put pressure inevitably on their own, they will make life harder for themselves. They must put doubt from time to time in the NZ defensive line. Choose your moments but always be looking for those moments. Pollard must be instructed to be on the lookout for opportunities like what Barrett was presented with just before half time. To have the freedom to sum up the moment quickly and go in with positive intent.

SA know that if they lose in Wellington, the RC is sewn up before the Ellis Park. You might argue that might well motivate Meyer to throw caution to the wind like he did in Ellis Park last year and go out not wondering what might have been. However, crazily enough, it might well motivate him to revert to battleship type and go in with a siege mentality. I have no doubt SA will bring a physical game to the Cake Tin. It was working for them in Eden Park last year. But also I think too much emphasis was placed on the SA domination up front. NZ no doubt knew they were in a physical contest and players were under the pump. It was not only SA supporters frustrated by the Bismarck yellow card debacle. I actually think it hurt the Springboks not to have that match played out with an even amount of men. We'll never know who would've won but I can't help but have the feeling SA felt they would've won for sure had Bismarck stayed on the field. Or at least probably would've won. Like I said, we'll never know who would've won (it's like saying NZ would've beaten anyone at Eden Park two weeks ago) but the feeling that the Boks were on the right track and Ellis Park was a big step away from that type of play is a dangerous one. The truth is that a mixture of those two games is what is required and the simple truth, if NZ play well enough, neither of those game plans is going to be good enough. The Boks might well beat up the NZ pack but they will find a way to keep their head above water and strike when it is necessary. If SA try to go into an all-out attack game against NZ they will score points but NZ will find the open spaces they crave to score points of their own.

SA must go into this game at the Cake Tin knowing they have to improve at set piece. They need to improve their physicality and intensity. Playing NZ usually brings that out. Being behind on points will only encourage that out more. But they need to be smarter in how they approach the game. They must acknowledge that fronting up in the pack and improving their defence will help them stay in the game but choosing their moments to attack and not being an open book on attack is what's going to give them the best chance of coming away with a win. Meyer cannot revert to type and return to his default setting. NZ will absorb and choose their moments. Meyer must do what he hasn't done for most of this RC. Allow his playmakers to be smart about how they control the game and choose their moments to strike with ball in hand across the park.

Firstly take nothing for granted where the Boks are concerned don`t assume because they`ve
been underperforming to date.That that will continue to be the case there set piece is still
good,goal kicking especially drop excellent plus backs that can kill you.
The Weather will probably have a say in wellington it usually does,even 6 points from the
next two games would give Sa a chance to take title in SA.
Crudon will start so goal kicking maybe less of a problem,Dagg is to get him practicing.
Thrush is steady and reliable the back ups injured and a week away from fitness,McCaw
at 6 ,start Todd at 7 with Cane on bench or vice versa.Luatua as 6/Lock backup.
Boks have edge at lineout/rolling maul defence crucial but hasn't been a problem for AB`s
much since 2009.
Silly penalties or cards need to be avoided because they have kickers to exploit it.

I am boycotting Springbok rugby, until Meyer decides to play proper rugby I am walking away.

Next weekend I will be occupying my time with something else. I really don't give a shyte what happens, hopefully the AB's beat us by 50 and someone somewhere wakes the f... up.

Whilst the boks were a little unlucky you have to wonder why Meyer keeps faith with steyn. Defensively he's a real worry... He missed tackles or looked uninterested at best for both AUS tries and missed the ball to hand kick which resulted in the winning try.

Lambie for NZ?

The ABs have a few players out with injury and it's hard to believe that this hasn't caused anxiety in the team or amongst fans. Kaino, DC, Woodcock, Whitelock, Messam, etc. ABs seem to be in a good space right now despite injuries but SA will never be underestimated.

Biltong wrote:I am boycotting Springbok rugby, until Meyer decides to play proper rugby I am walking away.

Next weekend I will be occupying my time with something else. I really don't give a shyte what happens, hopefully the AB's beat us by 50 and someone somewhere wakes the f... up.

gaww don't say that...means it'll be the type of test we lose...everything will suddenly go right for them and wrong for us...

emack2 wrote:Firstly take nothing for granted where the Boks are concerned don`t assume because they`ve
been underperforming to date.That that will continue to be the case there set piece is still
good,goal kicking especially drop excellent plus backs that can kill you.
The Weather will probably have a say in wellington it usually does,even 6 points from the
next two games would give Sa a chance to take title in SA.
Crudon will start so goal kicking maybe less of a problem,Dagg is to get him practicing.
Thrush is steady and reliable the back ups injured and a week away from fitness,McCaw
at 6 ,start Todd at 7 with Cane on bench or vice versa.Luatua as 6/Lock backup.
Boks have edge at lineout/rolling maul defence crucial but hasn't been a problem for AB`s
much since 2009.
Silly penalties or cards need to be avoided because they have kickers to exploit it.

beautifully fine here in Wellington today Alan...though that doesnt look to be lasting for the rest of the week...

I don't think SA have a dominant set piece now and thats worrying.

Their lineout with Flip was far far better. Matfield looks vunerable and offers less come ruck time. The scrums, eish.... when AUS with their 5th choice hooker are matching you you are bang in trouble.

There has to be better alternatives than what we're seeing in the front five.... Etzebeth, Bismarck aside.

FA.

The SPringbok camp is in serious trouble.

FOrget for a moment that we play negative rugby.

Jannie du Plessis is done, since 2012 he has not missed a match, he is overplayed and his body is done.

Bismarck is in a similar position.

Beast still has a neck injury that has not completely healed.

This means our front row is in serious trouble with Frans Malherbe out as well.

Victor is still a master at the line out, but that is where his usefulness ends.

Etzebeth is still not back to his best, but with the injuries to Pieter Steph du Toit and FLip v d merwe we have lost that extra physicality.

We miss ALberts' physicality, so overall our pack is much weaker than last year.

Without Fourie du Preez who still kicks a lot, we now have the pedestrian Ruan Pienaar and Morne Steyn controlling a game which they aren't executing and can offer nothing else.

With Jaque Fourie out with injury as well as the unavailability of JP Pietersen we have no real 13, other than JJ Engelbrecht who seems to have been forgotten.

SO now Meyer is selecting natural 12's to play at 13 and the combinations have not worked, especially in defence.

Then add to that WIllie le Roux is now being forced to kick away possession and not play his natural game unless we are inside the opposition 22.

SO apart from an antiquated game plan, the team combinations and selections are not working, some due to injuries, we are basically stuffed.

SO anyone believing we will stand any chance of upsetting NZ are deluded.

BB

I agree with you dude.. but remember without Habana's card the boks would have strolled home... and winning comfortably away against AUS is never a bad thing.

Bismarck is just a little tired be he still has the old dog in him... he's not over yet and I don't see Strauss taking over longterm. Jannie has been kak for years, PDV knew it but had no alternatives. Once Frans is back I expect him to start.

Flip is just as good as Matfield in the lineout.. he lost 1 lineout in the entire RC last year. Once fit he will be the starter and his combination with Eben is good.

Then we get to the backs....

Frans Steyn saga means I doubt he will be back for the RWC (although I imagine next season he will make a late claim no doubt for vanity reasons).

Meyer pulled a donkey out of his hat when he looked at short term maintainence which has hurt him big now. JDV is a good leader and yes he is the best that the boks have at the moment but in reality I'd rather play Serfontein and De Jongh together as I think Serfontein is a better 12 now than JDV and De Jongh/Engelbrecht/Fourie will fight it out for 13 for the RWC.

For the RWC I'd like to see this team

Coenie, Bissie, Frans, Eben, Flip, Alberts, Louw, Vermuleun, van Zyl, Goosen, Habana, Serfontein, Fourie/de jongh/engelbrecht, Piertsen, Le Roux

not going to happen though. Would have Frans Steyn in there but I imagine he has few mates left at the boks.... who wants to side with a guy who chose money over the boks.

Cruden and Luatua plus Thrush starting,Cory Jane and Tuitopu starting from bench this
AllBlacks side may have many key players missing.
But still have the depth to fill in the gaps to some extent.

fa0019 wrote:Whilst the boks were a little unlucky you have to wonder why Meyer keeps faith with steyn. Defensively he's a real worry... He missed tackles or looked uninterested at best for both AUS tries and missed the ball to hand kick which resulted in the winning try.

Lambie for NZ?

Morne is out as predicted but harsh on lambie with pollard coming in to the starting XV

That kid's going to be put under pressure so I'd hope he plays at least his own style rather than that of Morné 2.0. He will find life very difficult being ordered to play in NZ an unfamiliar style.

After the England series NZ will be used to rush defence and Hansen managed to work it out by series' end. I'm not as concerned about SA's D as I am usually. Thrush must front physically as Luatua's third cab off the rank as a 6 in that facet of play so it's all hands on deck. Though his lineout presence can negate some of Whitelock's loss.

Just hope Nonu doesn't come up lame.

Since SA's reintroduction in 1992 50 tests have been played with NZ winning 35 and SA winning 14, not counting the 3 draws they have played.
NZ has 71.4% winning record since 92 and 58.8% overall winning record going back to 1921.

This is why these games matter. They're steeped in history and it's not a history that looks favourably on NZ. With SA's isolation and Australia's prominence in 91 and 99 not to mention their Bledisloe hold with Eales kicking penalty goals from the sideline, it's often forgotten by the younger New Zealanders. But there's no doubt, SA are the traditional and current arch enemy. I love these games. So much respect. Even the coaches have a healthy respect. No sly digs from Shag to Meyer. It helps though Meyer brings him a beer if the Boks lose though!

Not a bad game.

Only really caught the 2nd half, late late night.......fantastic to watch quality international rugby of the 1st order. Not the very very best but certainly real quality and undoubtedly the 1 & 2 of world rugby regardless of last week’s Perth performance.

I hope the injuries aren’t serious - ridiculously I just knew Louw would cop one.

Jeez, nerve wrecking. Good game, great game, but we had a 'mare between the 60-75th minute in the set plays. Five or six needless turnover balls, but a fantastic defensive effort. Willie le Roux was abject today, but that's the deal with mercurial players. Congrats to the resident Kiwis, even the Scotttish lineage, Madrid-living ones. Great touch from NZ rugby, bearing gifts for the 100 test Bokke

Cheers mate. That was a cracker alright. Good hard, physical rugby where both sides will lament errors of judgement and execution but that was because it was an even contest and both sides had wee patches as Hansen put it when they were in the ascendancy. I really enjoyed that and I think only now my wife is coming out from her hiding spot...

Cuppla points:

The two best teams in the World playing a hard, uncompromising test, their hardest game of the year thusfar.

My SA player of the day: Vermuelin.

Every time the ABs tried to raise the pace of the game they made mistakes.

That try by McCaw shows why he is such a special player.

Agree Laurie. NZ didn't adjust well. It needed good lines to expose the rush defence and to do that they needed to retain the ball. I think Savea made some good half breaks but he almost always went to ground whereas I thought he had plenty of opportunities to offload to a NZ play and continue the game. We panicked too much with possession and were guilty of what SA did last week and kicked it away aimlessly. We started off well and then we looked rattled when the players started to feel the power of those hits on defence.

Well for a start more of those kicks behind the Dline by Cruden should have benn along the ground, chipping it through the air made ot too easy to defend, plus there was some poor kickchases.

His kick to Read was intelligent. A lot by Cruds and Dagg were long and high with no chasing as you say. That came from SA rattling us with slowing our ball down and rushing up on defence and we just didn't adjust.

We also had moments where we were hot on attack and lost the ball through a player getting isolated and poor execution like Cruden's kick to touch not going out.

At times we were looking to play the ball quickly but we didn't have any options around. SA were slowing down the ball at lineout but too often we took a quick throw to spite SA's plans whereas slowing down, reforming and setting up would've been smarter player.

Frankly, I think for once SA out thought us in that game and we didn't adjust well. Credit to them and the onus is on us to lift that area of our game for Ellis Park.

SA played well and will be disappointed to have not won I reckon. I've just gotten home from the game and can tell you there was a lot of relief in the park.
We made lots of errors and some poor choices - partly up to SA putting us under some pressure and partly Cruden having a bad game.

I bet. Contrast that crowd with the Aussie crowds and the NZRU are getting a much better return from their home games.

Good game to watch nganby. I bet you and the rest were cacking it as I sure was in the privacy of my home.

Biltong wrote:I am boycotting Springbok rugby, until Meyer decides to play proper rugby I am walking away.

Next weekend I will be occupying my time with something else. I really don't give a shyte what happens, hopefully the AB's beat us by 50 and someone somewhere wakes the f... up.

I understand, I had it up to here with Ireland under Kidney/Smal/Kiss for years. But I hope you're joking. What kind of a fan walks away from his team because they aren't playing well? Imagine you were Scottish?

Me! It is about a lot more than not playing well, gameplan, execution, selections, kicking too much, no enterprise. Etc.

biltong, you could always change to supporting NZ like emack did.

I am not a turncoat

Gentlemen don`t drag me into your petty squabbles who support is my own business and has been
for 60 years.I DON`T rubbish other teams so don`t tar me with the same brush and object
to being referred to as a TURNCOAT

Alan, if the shoe fits wear it, if it doesn't kick it under your bed.

Feckless Rogue wrote:

Biltong wrote:I am boycotting Springbok rugby, until Meyer decides to play proper rugby I am walking away.

Next weekend I will be occupying my time with something else. I really don't give a shyte what happens, hopefully the AB's beat us by 50 and someone somewhere wakes the f... up.

I understand, I had it up to here with Ireland under Kidney/Smal/Kiss for years. But I hope you're joking. What kind of a fan walks away from his team because they aren't playing well? Imagine you were Scottish?

thats probably why the professional game in scotland is more or less in the proverbial wasteland in terms of support and participation. success begets success. and vice versa.

Nonu has a broken arm, Crotty has a fractured cheek.

Now if the Cowboys beat the Roosters this weekend Mr Williams might be available for the All blacks this time next week.

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Nonu has a broken arm, Crotty has a fractured cheek.

Now if the Cowboys beat the Roosters this weekend Mr Williams might be available for the All blacks this time next week.

2 weeks bugger all happening next week.

Biltong wrote:Me! It is about a lot more than not playing well, gameplan, execution, selections, kicking too much, no enterprise. Etc.

I thought they played well in NZ. Hendricks is a good find.

The Saint wrote:

Biltong wrote:Me! It is about a lot more than not playing well, gameplan, execution, selections, kicking too much, no enterprise. Etc.

I thought they played well in NZ. Hendricks is a good find.

Hendricks is shyte scared of the high ball, he has not taken one yet in 7 tests and he runs himself deliberately out of position to not catch it.

He is very good on attack and decent on defence, but pathetic under the high ball.

Which begs the question why he wasn't targeted more. That first one he got, he didn't go anywhere near Savea. He only got one more I think in the whole game. Wasn't enamoured by a lot of our kicking game yesterday.

Too many chip kicks for mine Kia-seemed aimless to me. Though the territory gained in the first half meant that maybe it wasn't all bad. Was a game DC would have excelled in I feel and a lot of press that are saying that he doesn't have more to offer than the other two 10s are mistaken IMO.