Ireland 2014/15 season

First topic message reminder :

The season has just started and yet the autumn internationals are just around the corner. Time for a new Ireland thread.


This season in the Pro 12 the internationals look like they're coming back a few weeks earlier than usual. This should allow them to be more match sharpe when the november internationals against South Africa, Georgia and Australia come round.

Here are the fixtures during the season.

November 2014
Sat 8th Nov 14 17:30
GS Ireland  v   South Africa
AVIVA Stadium

Sun 16th Nov 14 14:30
GS Ireland  v   Georgia
AVIVA Stadium

Sat 22nd Nov 14 16:30
GS Ireland  v   Australia
AVIVA Stadium

February 2015
Sat 7th Feb 15 15:30
6N Italy  v   Ireland
Stadio Olimpico

Sat 14th Feb 15 17:00
6N Ireland  v   France
AVIVA Stadium

March 2015
Sun 1st Mar 15 15:00
6N Ireland  v   England
AVIVA Stadium

Sat 14th Mar 15 14:30
6N Wales  v   Ireland
Millennium Stadium

Sat 21st Mar 15 14:30
6N Scotland  v   Ireland
BT Murrayfield



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After the first weekend of the Pro 12 Stuart Olding was the stand out Irish player. Theres talk about himself and Payne being the Ireland centers but I'd love to see Olding and Henshaw. Henshaw returns for Conancht next weekend.
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Ireland Squad (Guinness Series 2014, South Africa, Georgia, Australia- Aviva Stadium)

Forwards (21)
Stephen Archer (Cork Constitution/Munster) 2
Rodney Ah You (Corinthians/Connacht) 1
Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) 77
James Cronin (Dolphin/Munster) 1
Sean Cronin (St Mary's College/Leinster) 35
Robbie Diack (Malone/Ulster) 1
Dave Foley (UL Bohemians/Munster) *
Chris Henry (Malone/Ulster) 16
Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster) 67
Dave Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster) 10
Mike McCarthy (Lansdowne/Leinster) 15
Jack McGrath (St Mary's College/Leinster) 10
Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster) 94 CAPTAIN
Tommy O'Donnell (UL Bohemians/Munster) 4
Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster) 23
Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster) 41
Rhys Ruddock (St Mary's College/Leinster) 3
Dominic Ryan (Lansdowne/Leinster) *
Richardt Strauss (Old Wesley/Leinster) 4
Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster) 17
Nathan White (Galwegians/Connacht)*

Backs (16)
Tommy Bowe (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster) 54
Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster) 79
Craig Gilroy (Dungannon/Ulster) 5
Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht) 3
Felix Jones (Shannon/Munster) 6
Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster) 55
Ian Keatley (Young Munster/Munster) 2
Darragh Leader (Galwegians/Connacht) *
Ian Madigan (Blackrock/Leinster) 10
Kieran Marmion (Galwegians/Connacht) 2
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster) 28
Stuart Olding (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster) 1
Jared Payne (Ulster) *
Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster) 55
Johnny Sexton (Racing Metro) 45
Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster) 8

*Denotes uncapped player

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Earls chosen at 13, Darcy at 12 and Fitz at 11 for the Wolfies.

Yes interesting Pete - looking at the bench, you'd guess reid is covering inside centre and fly-half.

Given Earls lack of fitness, and Gilroy being on the bench, I'd expect fitz to get a run at 13 in the second half - but given he's starting at 11 I'd say Schmidt sees him as bench option at best.

Interesting to see who isn't there - Zebo, Cave, Payne, O'Donnell and Keatley all look set to be involved against Italy.

Looks like we are going to see some combination of 2 from Henshaw/Payne/Cave in midfield, with the other on the bench.

I don't think Cave will be involved at all, and he's just so far down the pecking order he can't get a game for the Wolfhounds. I think they are giving Earls, McFadden and Fitzgerald game time to see which one of them will be on the bench as all can cover centre and wing. The centres will be Henshaw/Payne with one of those three on the bench.

I see McGrath and Madigan also playing in the Italy game. McGrath hasn't played in three weeks and Madigan needs game time at 10 so both need this match.

Possibly Notch - but I believe Cave wouldn't have been in the squad if Schmidt was interested in seeing him.

I would say that if Henshaw doesn't recover then Cave will start alongside Payne - possibly he will start anyways, with Payne on the bench.

Henshaw has been training fully, he's fit.

Cave to start at 13 then outside Henshaw-Payne in the 23 jersey.

If I'm wrong then you may administer me a lifetime ban.

O'Donnell can't be guaranteed anything with Jordi Murphy and Cave probably is 2 or 3 injuries away from the first team.

15 Kearney
14 Bowe
13 Cave
12 Henshaw
11 Zebo
10 Keatley
9 Murray
8 Heaslip
7 O'Donnell
6 O'Mahoney
5 O'Connell
4 Toner
3 Ross
2 Best
1 McGrath

16. Moore 17. Cronin 18. Healy 19. O'Brien 20. Murphy/Henderson 21. Reddan 22. Madigan 23. Payne

There's your 23 against Italy folks - may the big man strike me down if it isn't so.

rodders wrote:15 Kearney
14 Bowe
13 Cave
12 Henshaw
11 Zebo
10 Keatley
9 Murray
8 Heaslip
7 O'Donnell
6 O'Mahoney
5 O'Connell
4 Toner
3 Ross
2 Best
1 McGrath

16. Moore 17. Cronin 18. Healy 19. O'Brien 20. Murphy/Henderson 21. Reddan 22. Madigan 23. Payne

There's your 23 against Italy folks - may the big man strike me down if it isn't so.

Séan O'Brien?

rodders wrote:15 Kearney
14 Bowe
13 Cave
12 Henshaw
11 Zebo
10 Keatley
9 Murray
8 Heaslip
7 O'Donnell
6 O'Mahoney
5 O'Connell
4 Toner
3 Ross
2 Best
1 McGrath

16. Moore 17. Cronin 18. Healy 19. O'Brien 20. Murphy/Henderson 21. Reddan 22. Madigan 23. Payne

There's your 23 against Italy folks - may the big man strike me down if it isn't so.

While I don't necessarily agree with that as the 23 Joe will pick, the bench looks awesome! Imagine bringing on ball carriers like SOB, Henderson and Healy for the last 20 mins against a tired defense!

Cave is well down the pecking order at 13. I also think Payne is as well. He hasn't played there in a while and he is coming back from an injury. I'm really surprised he isn't involved somehow considering he hasn't played a whole lot recently.

With the chance of having a very inexperienced midfield if both Sexton & Murray missing, I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see Darcy lining out at 12.

PS - some serious mental gymnastics required by some with Joe picking Earls for the 13 jersey in his first game ever. Fairplay!

Here's your real 15 for Italy.

McGrath, Best, Moore, O'Connell, Toner, O'Mahony, Murphy, Heaslip, Murray, Madigan, Zebo, Henshaw, Payne, Bowe, Kearney

I'd be so cool with that if 13 read Fitzgerald.

I'd still be pretty cool with it either way to be honest.
Quite a lot of impact on that bench too.

CRONIN, HEALY, ross, HENDERSON, O'BRIEN, REDDAN, keatley, EARLS/FITZGERALD/GILROY

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I'd be so cool with that if 13 read Fitzgerald.

I'd still be pretty cool with it either way to be honest.
Quite a lot of impact on that bench too.

CRONIN, HEALY, ross, HENDERSON, O'BRIEN, REDDAN, keatley, EARLS/FITZGERALD/GILROY

Fitzgerald is a tad overrated for me. He's just good at a lot of things without being really great at anything. I would put him alongside Cave as a good option but not anything exciting or truly class.

I can't see how Payne is in the reckoning for 13. He hasn't played in that position since November and since he came back from his injury he has played at fullback for Ulster.

I think the annointed one is Luke. Schmidt bribed Luke to stay in Leinster by offering to convert him to 13.

Sin é wrote:I can't see how Payne is in the reckoning for 13. He hasn't played in that position since November and since he came back from his injury he has played at fullback for Ulster.

I think the work done in training camps and international matches counts for more than provincial form, and Payne has a headstart on the other options after November. He has had more time under this coaching set-up at 13 than other players.

Payne only played one game and he hasn't played at 13 since then. He would have been out of squad training in the AIs as well as he got injured. He hasn't played a lot of rugby recently either, unlike Luke.

Cave signing a new contract and Ulster playing him at 15 suggest to me that the 13 experiment is over for Payne.

I wouldn't count on that if I was you. We had no choice but to pick him at 15 due to injuries and other options not being in the European squad.

Sin é wrote:I can't see how Payne is in the reckoning for 13. He hasn't played in that position since November and since he came back from his injury he has played at fullback for Ulster.

I think the annointed one is Luke. Schmidt bribed Luke to stay in Leinster by offering to convert him to 13.

Very weird definition of a bribe.

Sin é wrote:I can't see how Payne is in the reckoning for 13.

Well you know what I always say.... if in doubt, pick a kiwi.

Notch wrote:I wouldn't count on that if I was you. We had no choice but to pick him at 15 due to injuries and other options not being in the European squad.

Bit strange he isn't getting some time with the Wolfhounds there then, bearing in mind he hasn't as much rugby over the last 3 months as Luke has for instance.

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:I wouldn't count on that if I was you. We had no choice but to pick him at 15 due to injuries and other options not being in the European squad.

Bit strange he isn't getting some time with the Wolfhounds there then, bearing in mind he hasn't as much rugby over the last 3 months as Luke has for instance.

Luke needs more practice at 11, where Joe has tall poppy syndrom issues to deal with.

Luke has played more recently at 11 than Payne has played at 13.

I'm not supporting his inclusion, I just think its inevitable that he will be selected.

Sin é wrote:Luke has played more recently at 11 than Payne has played at 13.

Gilroy has played more recently at 11 than Zebo so should we rule zebo out of a wing spot?

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:Luke has played more recently at 11 than Payne has played at 13.

Gilroy has played more recently at 11 than Zebo so should we rule zebo out of a wing spot?

Zebo has played on the wing this year, unlike Payne

I am not sure why Payne is getting a look in from so many.

If this logic held true then Darcy has more claim to 12 moving Henshaw to 13.
It's flawed to say the least.

Joe knows what he can do therefore isn't concerned about his lack of gametime at 13.

He's playing 15 due to Ludiks injury. Pretty sure he's not the only player in the frame who hasn't played much recently.

The thing you can be sure with Schmidt is that his selections aren't random - he knows what he wants and knows what players can deliver.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I am not sure why Payne is getting a look in from so many.

If this logic held true then Darcy has more claim to 12 moving Henshaw to 13.
It's flawed to say the least.

Quite right Pete.
I am a fan of Payne but only with a 15 on his back where he's absolutely test class. He's never shown the same kind of form at 13 that he did in with the Blues. He hasn't been terrible and didn't do a bad job but he's yet to really impress. When he was shifted to 15 for Ulster due to Ludik's injury and Cave was at 13.....well we know the outcome of that

I'd have Henshaw at 13 and Payne on the bench to cover the backline.

Mind you Joe's a clever guy and if Payne is selected at 13 then it won't be without a very good reason.

My backs prediction for Rome:

9 Murray/Reddan (if fit) 10 Madigan, 11 Zebo, 12 Henshaw, 13 Luke Fitz, 14 Bowe, 15 Kearney.

Subs: Keatley, Marmion, Earls.

I think the future centres/horses for courses mix of Luke, Earls & Henshaw (with Darcy & Payne emergency cover after that).

You just have to look at who's been held back from the Wolfhounds game to know the squad for next week. It's two out of three of Henshaw, Cave and Payne and I honestly can't see Cave getting picked after not even making the squad initially in the autumn. It's not that I'm advocating Payne get selected. It's that I think it is extremely likely that Schmidt will select him.

If he was back-up he'd be playing in the Wolfhounds. He will definitely be in the match day 23 and I'm nearly certain he will start.

Does nobody think that maybe Darcy is getting game time with the wolfhounds to get him up to speed for next week? He would certainly provide experience between Madigan/Keatley and Henshaw.

Stewie15 wrote:Does nobody think that maybe Darcy is getting game time with the wolfhounds to get him up to speed for next week? He would certainly provide experience between Madigan/Keatley and Henshaw.

It's crossed my mind but I think the advantage is with the guys left out and the pressure is on the guys picked for tonight to oust them. I don't think many involved here will start against Italy.

Conversly there will probably be another team in mind for France, where Sexton and O'Brien potentially will feature from the bench.

The suggestion from the Autumn is that the preferred centre pairing is Henshaw and Payne - Cave is a funny one though, I think he may get the nod to start with Payne maybe going on the bench.  

Remember how Schmidt works - he often brings guys into the squad and then sends them away with things to work on, without picking them - Trimble and Zebo were handled in a similar way. Only when hes sure they have done their homework does he consider them to play.

rodders wrote:

Stewie15 wrote:Does nobody think that maybe Darcy is getting game time with the wolfhounds to get him up to speed for next week? He would certainly provide experience between Madigan/Keatley and Henshaw.

It's crossed my mind but I think the advantage is with the guys left out and the pressure is on the guys picked for tonight to oust them. I don't think many involved here will start against Italy.

Conversly there will probably be another team in mind for France, where Sexton and O'Brien potentially will feature from the bench.

The suggestion from the Autumn is that the preferred centre pairing is Henshaw and Payne - Cave is a funny one though, I think he may get the nod to start with Payne maybe going on the bench.  

Remember how Schmidt works - he often brings guys into the squad and then sends them away with things to work on, without picking them - Trimble and Zebo were handled in a similar way. Only when hes sure they have done their homework does he consider them to play.

Yeah i agree that most of the guys left out hold the advantage for next week but the likes of Ross and McGrath may start next week too. Joe is likely to give game time to those he thinks need it prior to the match next week. I'm suggesting D'arcy may also be one of those!

Positions not (all but) nailed on for the Italy game - 3, 7, 10, 12/13(to partner Henshaw). Any others? I guess there is potential for one of McFadden, Fitzgerald or Earls to force their way into the reckoning but seems unlikely.

I think that the Henshaw-Payne combo is the only one that Ireland can really go for this year. I do hope that Henshaw moves back to 13 permanently at some stage but for now, with the most talented 12s injured or just back from injury, what other option is there really? They have played one game together already.

Unless Schmidt decides to play Madigan or D'Arcy at 12, which would be a big call IMO, then Payne is definitely going to be playing 13.

I think the Saxons selections of 11. Fitzgerald and 13. Earls is very revealing. Both have been playing 13 recently and it would seem to be theri preferred position. With Earls getting the nod I think it's a real vote of confience from Joe.
If he has a decent game I'd xpect him to be on the bench next week and a possible starter at 13 against France.

Submachine wrote:I think the Saxons selections of 11. Fitzgerald and 13. Earls is very revealing. Both have been playing 13 recently and it would seem to be theri preferred position. With Earls getting the nod I think it's a real vote of confience from Joe.
If he has a decent game I'd xpect him to be on the bench next week and a possible starter at 13 against France.

Joe seems to rate Earls based on things he has said about him in the past. I wouldn't be surprised to see Gilroy come on for one of the centres and Fitz move infield for the last 20 mins.

Stewie15 wrote:

Submachine wrote:I think the Saxons selections of 11. Fitzgerald and 13. Earls is very revealing. Both have been playing 13 recently and it would seem to be theri preferred position. With Earls getting the nod I think it's a real vote of confience from Joe.
If he has a decent game I'd xpect him to be on the bench next week and a possible starter at 13 against France.

Joe seems to rate Earls based on things he has said about him in the past. I wouldn't be surprised to see Gilroy come on for one of the centres and Fitz move infield for the last 20 mins.

I'm sure that will happen - maybe earlier than 60 min. Earls isn't fully fit and the fact Gilroy is on the bench suggests Fizt will shift in.

Agree with Sub - it does suggest Joe sees Earls as a 13 more than Fitzgerald. Its good to have such competition in some of these positions.

Luke out. What a joke.

Nobody putting their hands up so far, except possibly Gilroy in defence, I imagine Schmidt will be impressed as he likes his wingers to put in a good shift.

Anybody got a link for this game now?

Who's on the injury list for Ireland going into the tournament?

Off the top of my head;

Jonny Sexton (back for Round 2)
Cian Healy (potentially back for later rounds)
Andrew Trimble (possibly back for later rounds)
Donnacha Ryan (possibly back for later rounds)
Rhys Ruddock (possibly back for later rounds)
Paddy Jackson (whole tournament)
Stuart Olding (whole tournament)
Dan Tuohy (whole tournament)
Dave Foley (whole tournament)
Chris Henry (whole tournament)

Then a few others I'm not sure about- Fitzgerald missed the game last night with a stomach bug, you'd imagine he'll be fine. Dave Kearney? Don't know. McFadden came off injured last night and Gilroy took a knock to the head. No idea about those two. Eoin Reddan and Conor Murray were doubts but they were expected to be fit.

Think Mike McCarthy went off with a concussion didn't he?

Just watching a few highlights of the 2013 Ireland and NZ game. One thing I forgot about was the Earls-BOD centre combination, with Earls at 12. Could there be a chance that we see an Earls-Henshaw combination for the Italy game? Would people be happier with this than the Henshaw-Payne axis?

No to both questions for me.

Think you are confusing Earls with Fitzgerald there? D'arcy played the whole game at 12 while Fitz came on for BOD on the hour mark. Henshaw with Earls would be an exciting combination but it does mean moving Henshaw out of position. I can see it getting a shot later in the tournament but Earls may not be up to speed yet.
For me Earls is the most talented back we have, but he hasn't quite realised his potential largely due to mismanagement and injuries. Having said that, his international record was compared to Cave and Fitzgerald on here, he has achieved far more than those two in a green shirt. People have short memories.

I haven't caught up with the Irish sports press yet - what did the Times and the Independent reckon was the reason behind the Wolfhounds performance and how p!ssed off/worried are the commentators about it?

theslosty wrote:Think you are confusing Earls with Fitzgerald there? D'arcy played the whole game at 12 while Fitz came on for BOD on the hour mark. Henshaw with Earls would be an exciting combination but it does mean moving Henshaw out of position. I can see it getting a shot later in the tournament but Earls may not be up to speed yet.
For me Earls is the most talented back we have, but he hasn't quite realised his potential largely due to mismanagement and injuries. Having said that, his international record was compared to Cave and Fitzgerald on here, he has achieved far more than those two in a green shirt. People have short memories.

No, in the NZ summer tour 2013, Keith Earls played at 12 with BOD at 13. Henshaw is going to be out of position no matter who else plays alongside him at centre this year. At least until the likes of Stuart Olding comes back from injury, if he can make the RWC squad.

EDIT: I'm not exactly sure which test match it was though, I think we played 3.

EDIT AGAIN: I've mixed up the years here, it was 2012. Apologies. Didn't realise it was 3 years ago!

The tour of NZ was in 2012 . Can't say I watched the game in question but Earls at 12 wouldn't convince me. Fair point re Henshaw, the attacking edge we would gain by playing him at 13 would be cancelled out by having D'arcy at 12 (the only current viable option other than perhaps Madigan).

Edit: The 3rd Test fiasco had Paddy Wallace at 12. I'm assuming you are referring to the 2nd Test where NZ squeezed past, otherwise I'm not sure why you would suggest a centre combination that got royally stuffed!

Add Fergus McFadden to that list, first two weeks with a rib injury. To paraphrase the Irish Times;

Dave Kearney and Luke Fitzgerald fit, Craig Gilroy was concussed and is following return to play protocols, both scrum halves making progress though we still keep 4 in the 38-man squad. Murray expected to be fully fit, Reddan expected to resume full training on Tuesday along with Heaslip. Mike McCarthy is also a doubt with concussion

IRELAND (Squad for Six Nations matches against Italy and France)

FORWARDS (20)

Rory Best (Ulster), James Cronin (Munster), Seán Cronin (Leinster), Robbie Diack (Ulster), Cian Healy (Leinster), Jamie Heaslip (Leinster), Iain Henderson (Ulster), Mike McCarthy (Leinster), Jack McGrath (Leinster), Martin Moore (Leinster), Jordi Murphy (Leinster), Seán O’Brien (Leinster), Paul O’Connell (Munster), Tommy O’Donnell (Munster), Peter O’Mahony (Munster), Mike Ross (Leinster), Dominic Ryan (Leinster), Richardt Strauss (Leinster), Devin Toner (Leinster), Nathan White (Connacht)*

BACKS (18)

Isaac Boss (Leinster), Tommy Bowe (Ulster), Darren Cave (Ulster), Gordon D’Arcy (Leinster), Keith Earls (Munster), Luke Fitzgerald (Leinster), Robbie Henshaw (Connacht), Felix Jones (Munster), David Kearney (Leinster), Rob Kearney (Leinster), Ian Keatley (Munster), Ian Madigan (Leinster), Kieran Marmion (Connacht), Conor Murray (Munster), Jared Payne (Ulster), Eoin Reddan (Leinster), Jonathan Sexton (Racing Metro 92), Simon Zebo (Munster).
*Denotes uncapped player

GC, I'm not sure that there is any angst or worries of any sort- after all its only an A game. I think the biggest issue is Madigan, and his game management as a 10. We will rely on getting Sexton back. The other thing that was obvious with the A game is that D'Arcy is looking less and less influential. I hope we don't see him in this Six Nations.