Aviva Premiership Round Five

Good preview, I agree with all of that except the falcons score!

OZZY!!!!!! Are you pi$$ed??



Unfortunately i see nothing other than another kicking. Teams are gunning for us now as they know they can get the full allocation of points.

The is a few Falcons fans vocally beginning to question Mr Richards and his fellow coaching team. He's had more time than most coaches would have had and we really dont seem to be seeing a huge amount of progress.

I hear ya GF, and you know I am in agreement about Deano, and have been saying so since the start of last season.  BUT, you have the makings of a decent side, who will at some point put in a performance in spite of the inabilities of your coaching set up. 

Why not this weekend?

geordiefalcon have to agree with you.

My predictions are completely different.

Saracens to beat Bath - just like Quins,Bath have struggled against Globogym. I expect Saracens to raise their intensity and performance to meet the occasion. Saracens have shown this season already when they want to score tries they can. Bath looked good vs an out of sorts Leicester and fought back well vs Saints but they'll need to find more inner belief to win.

Saracens have won the last 10 in a row vs Bath in the AP ( I think).


Quins to cruise to victory - bonus point win with a bit of confidence back for Quins -expecting Yarde to at last get on the board against the weakest team in the league with a brace of tries.

Saints to win but LI to get within 7 with a try in the closing stages.

Gloucester to pile more misery on Leicester with a narrow win - I expect this to be an erratic affair- Gloucester to be down 10 points at half time but come fighting in the 2nd and winning.


Wasps to go up to Sale and pick up the 4 points in a tight and nervy affair - Varndell to get the winning score.

Exeter - bonus point win vs Newcastle with Slade and Waldrom picking up tries - with the Slade bandwagon continuing.

Ozzy3213 wrote:I hear ya GF, and you know I am in agreement about Deano, and have been saying so since the start of last season.  BUT, you have the makings of a decent side, who will at some point put in a performance in spite of the inabilities of your coaching set up. 

Why not this weekend?

Well it would be nice to see...20 defeats on the trot is not good reading...21 just becomes outrageous.

We shall see, but im not holding my breath.

And i echo many of the fans, yes we're building for the future and its a slow process...but we want some victories NOW!! Otherwise we'll be rebuilding back in the championship and the normal exodus of starlets like Scot Wilson, Keiron Brookes, Simon Hammersley, Zac Kibirige, George McGuigan etc will resume.

We need some results and points.

Exeter - bonus point win vs Newcastle with Slade and Waldrom picking up tries - with the Slade bandwagon continuing

When did we leave the Devoto bandwagon? Im so confused now...

Can't be a Devoto bandwagon when he's not playing.

Will Greenwood is talking up Slade as the saviour in the centres. To be fair to Slade he's looking good so far but I am worried he's getting hyped up too much.

He looks a talent, as he did when he played at 10 for England against the Barbarians.  This world cup will be too soon for him to take the 10 jersey, but I can see him usurping Farrell, Ford and Burns in the race for that shirt for 2019.

Goode looked brilliant at 15 then floundered at 10, I know it's not that similar but I expect Slade to have a big form drop and then we'll see what he's made of

I don't see the similarities yappy.  Goode came into the senior side at 15 to gain experience before being moved to 10.  It never worked and he's now a settled 15 who can cover 10 if needed.

Slade came into the senior side at Exeter at 10, has played all his international (age grade, Saxons and senior) rugby at 10, and is currently covering the centres as the Chiefs started the season with a few injuries.  His spell there will do him good, but I don't think when he moves back to 10 he will suffer a drop in form as a result.

I'm sure their will be drops in form, as there always are with young players, but I don't think moving back to 10 will be the reason for it.

True true.

I wouldn't mind seeing him get a go for the England A team next year. If those games do still happen?

Glaws to win by 5 currently.

 but if injured players return I may change my view.

Full back battle is hotting up nicely with Brown being battered, Foden looked really sharp vs Bath, Goode has yet again been a strong figure in the AP (if only he could have as much effect in attack for England as he does at club level.

Favourite for the 12 shirt is probably Eastmond at the moment.

What is everyone's thoughts on an Eastmond-Burrell partnership?

So it seems Afoa is currently the 3rd highest earner in Europe.

 According to NZ press.

Ozzy3213 wrote:I don't see the similarities yappy.  Goode came into the senior side at 15 to gain experience before being moved to 10.  It never worked and he's now a settled 15 who can cover 10 if needed.

Slade came into the senior side at Exeter at 10, has played all his international (age grade, Saxons and senior) rugby at 10, and is currently covering the centres as the Chiefs started the season with a few injuries.  His spell there will do him good, but I don't think when he moves back to 10 he will suffer a drop in form as a result.

I'm sure their will be drops in form, as there always are with young players, but I don't think moving back to 10 will be the reason for it.

I thought that Slade was moved to the centres las season (initially 12 as hill was injured) because his goal kicking was failing rather miserably and thus a place had to be found for Steenson.

I am not sure he will ever be a top notch 10, as when I saw him there for Chiefs and the U20s he seemed to always look as if he had not quite enough time. He reminds me of Geraghty, Barkley, Twelvetrees - players who lokk like they should be great 10s - when they are playing at 12. I hope he can become a great 12 going forward - but fear he will be messed around.


As to the games:

Bath should be able to beat Sarries at home - but I have a feeling that unless they pull clear they may well panic a little which will play into the Sarries defence. So Bath to dominate possession but Sarries to win.

Quins to throw the ball around willy nilly, Welsh to maybe pick up an interception try and keep things close for 50 minutes. Quins to pull away for an easy win.

Based solely on round 4 you have to expect London irish to struggle up front against a strong Saints pack - even one that will be missing Corbs, Lawes and Wood. However should Geraghty again play well, and their back row again come to the party, we can expect gaps in the Saints midfield to be exploited. Short should be replaced by a fit again Ojo and Irish could well sneak this one.

Two heavily disorganised sides meet at Kingsholm. Without Allen the tigers backs from 10 out have looked disjointed and off the pace in attack and defence. The pace of Glaws could exploit this. but you expect this to be a game won up front. Tigers surprised me by getting the edge over LI in the setpiece - should this occur again, and should Allen and Tuilagi be back we may sneak a win. will not hold my breath.

Sale to win at home to Wasps with relative ease, Chiefs to stuff Falcons.

the rumoured injuries back are according to cockers on RL after LI:

 Rizzo, Mulipola, Bai.

 thorn and Manu are possibilities.

 Would assume if that was the case with the first 3 then a team of:

 1) Bristow, 2) Ghilrandi, 3) Mulipola
 4) De cheves, 5) Kitchener
 6) Gibson, 7) Salvi, 8) Crane/Barbieri
 9) Youngs, 10) Williams
 12) Bai, 13) Goneva
 11) Scully, 14) Benjamin, 15) Tait

 16) Briggs, 17) Rizzo, 18) Balmain, 19) Barbieri/Crane, 20) Pearce
 21) Mele, 22) Burns, 23) Smith/Pohe

 But if Manu and Thorn are back I would go with. 
 
 1) Bristow, 2) Ghilrandi, 3) Mulipola
 4) De cheves, 5) Kitchener
 6) Gibson, 7) Salvi, 8) Crane/Barbieri
 9) Youngs, 10) Williams
 12) Bai, 13) Manu
 11) Goneva, 14) Benjamin, 15) Scully

 16) Briggs, 17) Rizzo, 18) Balmain, 19) Thorn, 20) Crane/Barbieri/Pearce
 21) Mele, 22) Burns, 23) Tait.

 But who knows what will happen.

 Either way we need to target the lineout and hibbard, Kitchener + Gibson + cheves should do that even without Croft.

I think sadly Bath will end up with the LBP, I think missing Garvey, Fearns and Louw in the backrow will be too large a void to fill. I hope that we come out to play some decent rugby, at times against Northampton we were playing the %'s too much, like a classic away side I guess.

Northampton I think looked very good against Bath and with Wood and Lawes to come back I think they will have too much for Irish. I think the Geraghty show will get them a LBP.

Quins have the perfect game in many ways, a chance to get a win and a bit of confidence too. I'm predicting they come back to their top form at about the time they play Bath...!

Gloucester will continue Leicester's misery I think, a LBP for them.

Wasps have looked good this season, but 10 has looked a bit weak, Sale have looked pretty average but their 10 has looked good... I think Wasps will win this one, LBP for Sale.

Exeter will win up in Newcastle I think, possibly with a TBP, from what I've seen of the Falcons they have been pretty dire.

Exeter weren't great last time out at our place but their tactical kicking was fantastic and it got them the win.

If we can turn up like we did for the Wasps game and engage brains in the opposition half we have a chance.

10 & LH continue to worry me and will continue to hold us back until something is done by Richards (either sign some players or improve Rodgers/Fry & Clegg/Socino asap)

Thorn Should make his first appearance for Tigers this weekend with Rizzo.

 Also Bai and Mulipola should be back

 Sounds like it is a go.

 Source was a Mercury article.

 Our chance have gone up IMO.

Thorn should make a real difference for Tigers.  Experience and leadership has been missing in the past two games and he will bring those things in spades.  

Would it be Williams at 10 and Bai at 12 Welly?  I thought Burns decision making looked poor at the weekend.

I was just looking at the table and specifically the tries column.  I know it's a bit skewed as the 4 teams whop have played Welsh have probably scored more tries than they otherwise would have, but I found it interesting that only Welsh and Quins have scored less tries than us (Irish), but by the same token only Saints and Chiefs have conceded fewer.

It's a fair while since the stats would last suggest that we were stronger defensively than offensively.

Ozzy3213 wrote:Thorn should make a real difference for Tigers.  Experience and leadership has been missing in the past two games and he will bring those things in spades.  

Would it be Williams at 10 and Bai at 12 Welly?  I thought Burns decision making looked poor at the weekend.

 That's what I would go for.

It pleases me that Saracens are competitive in the try count despite playing neither Newcastle or London Welsh - consistently scoring 3 or 4 tries irrelevant who the opposition has been.


Quins will not stay on bottom of the try count once they play London Welsh!

My only hope for this weekend is that we can use Welsh as practice and get passes to hand/not cough up the ball in a match situation without being under much pressure.

If we struggle against Welsh I really do give up hope for this season, we need a BP win.

When is the EPS announced?  Is it likely to have any bearing on team selections for this and next week?

beshocked wrote:It pleases me that Saracens are competitive in the try count despite playing neither Newcastle or London Welsh - consistently scoring 3 or 4 tries irrelevant who the opposition has been.


Quins will not stay on bottom of the try count once they play London Welsh!

Just for that comment i hope we shut you out tryless.....

Sorry geordie it's just at the moment you are not doing particularly well. You haven't won a match in a long time.

It's just a reality that the two weakest sides at the moment in the AP are Newcastle and London Welsh.

Oh im not arguing that point...ive openly aired my frustrations...but still that comment...bring it on

Ozzy3213 wrote:When is the EPS announced?  Is it likely to have any bearing on team selections for this and next week?

I think I read it was after this batch of AP games? I may be wrong but it certainly won't disrupt this weekend.

Well the EPS or other countries wont affect us much only Brookes and Lawson (Scotland) really in the international picture.

LondonTiger wrote:
Based solely on round 4 you have to expect London irish to struggle up front against a strong Saints pack - even one that will be missing Corbs, Lawes and Wood. However should Geraghty again play well, and their back row again come to the party, we can expect gaps in the Saints midfield to be exploited. Short should be replaced by a fit again Ojo and Irish could well sneak this one.

Only just picked up on this. Topsy hasn't been injured, he got benched for the Falcons game after having a bit of a mare at Twickenham, then missed out altogether against Saracens as we went for a 6-2 split on the bench. Was back on the bench against Tigers. I don't expect him to start this game, as the back three have all done pretty well in the last 3 games. Short needs a try, just for a little confidence boost. He's come close against Falcons and had the one ruled out against Tigers, so needs to get himself off the mark. He's done well defensively though and has pace to burn so is always a threat.

Ah, I based that on the Irish fans over the aisle who were happy to see him come on saying he had been injured.

I felt that Short looked like a winger with zero confidence. Pretty much every time he got the ball he did a series of stuttery side-steps before running into the closest player. I just felt his contribution in attack was negligible.

Confidence may be an issue with Short.  He lost his place at Saracens and went on loan to Wasps, where I suspect he was behind Varndell and Wade.  I hope Smithy sticks with him as if he can bag a couple of tries and get some confidence I reckon he could be pretty decent for us.

I don't think Short is good enough for the AP, Ojo is a much better option.

I'd say his Premiership winners medal would suggest otherwise. I guess we'll find out as the season goes on, but I would think if you asked most London Irish fans right now they'd tell you that they're happy with him in the side.

A premiership winners medal means nothing. I've seen him in the Championship and the AP over a number of games and he's extremely average (poor for AP standards).

If I remember correctly Short got very good reviews when he first broke into the Sarries team, it was when they turned to anti-rugby and the human centipede that he struggled, that and fighting international class wingers and what was then a club stalwart in Wyles.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:A premiership winners medal means nothing. I've seen him in the Championship and the AP over a number of games and he's extremely average (poor for AP standards).

I agree Pooly! John O Shea has 5 premiership medals, Shearer and Gerrard have 0. Stephen Donald has more world cup medals than Jonny Sexton, Stephen Jones and Stephen Larkham put together!

Haha, agree Bathite. Stating an individual has a medal in a team event (often of 40 squad players) equates to very little. He's a very average player that offers very little imo

Well let's hope Brian Smith turns out to be right in his judgement - of course if those pesky Quins hadn't nicked Marland it wouldn't have mattered ...

Heaf wrote:Well let's hope Brian Smith turns out to be right in his judgement - of course if those pesky Quins hadn't nicked Marland it wouldn't have mattered ...

Could we swap him for Skivington or Court????

Ozzy3213 wrote:I was just looking at the table and specifically the tries column.  I know it's a bit skewed as the 4 teams whop have played Welsh have probably scored more tries than they otherwise would have, but I found it interesting that only Welsh and Quins have scored less tries than us (Irish), but by the same token only Saints and Chiefs have conceded fewer.

It's a fair while since the stats would last suggest that we were stronger defensively than offensively.

We have been playing clueless attacking rugby for the best part of 18 months now Ozzy.

For some reason ever since our victorious season we've changed our gameplan to 'run everything in our 12' and 'use long passes to get the ball wide at every opportunity'. Unfortunately neither of these tactics are successful on average.

But even so if we get the try bp against Welsh we'll be up to slightly more respectable figure (think 9 or 10 instead of 5).

Short has been average so far but ojo isnt any better. He has lost his pace it seems and his defence is awful. I would stick with short but maybe get tom fowlie some game time soon.

Fenby has to start ahead doesn't he Nick? Have you not got another FB?

The ginger ninja. But he is injured. And a terrible player. Thankfully fenby has shone at FB and made it his own. We could do with another winger, shame tagi left but that was because he is a greedy t wat.

Topsy has been a legend for London Irish, but sadly I have to agree with Nick, he does seem to have lost some pace, and therefore isn't the try scoring threat that he once was. He also missed those tackles in R1 which are what ultimately cost us a shot at winning the game. He is good back up right now, but will need to step his game back up again if he is to once more be first choice on the wing.

It'll be interesting to see who Quins go with at 13 and wing/full back. Right now assuming the injured from last weekend won't play and no ones back from injury as well we have Tiks at 13 Yarde at 14 and then Lindsey-Hague covering 11 and 15. Seriously, there is no one else in the squad.

Bath Rugby vs. Saracens by 3

Harlequins vs. London Welsh Quins by 38

London Irish vs. Northampton Saints Saints by13

Gloucester vs. Leicester Tigers Tigers by 4

Sale Sharks vs. London Wasps Wasps by 5

Newcastle Falcons vs. Exeter Chiefs Exe by 9

Hmmm on second thoughts 5 away wins????

Gloucester vs. Leicester Tigers Glous by 3