The best-ever performances from fighters making their world title fight debut?

How do, fellas?

The Salvador Sanchez versus Naseem Hamed thread the other day got me on to thinking about a couple of Sanchez's performances, in particular his absolute master class against Danny Lopez where he won the WBC Featherweight title. Sal was about as punch-perfect as you can get in that fight, and in terms of giving a fantastic example of how boxing should be done right across the board (counter punching, defence, stamina, combinations, focus - the lot) it's probably one of the most complete showings of his or any era.

Then I started thinking how impressive it was that Sanchez did all of that to a fearsome-hitting, tough and very experieced like Lopez so early in his career. He was barely 21, stepping up in class (the bookies weren't giving him much of a chance) and it was the first time he'd ever contested a world title - and yet he tore Lopez to shreds. I began to wonder if this might have been the best all-round performance / win of any fighter in history in their debut world title fight, and predictably plenty of other candidates started cropping up in my head.

So what the hell - I had a go at putting them in some kind of (rough, please remember that!) order. I'm only going on fights that I've seen with my own two eyes, so if there are any you feel I've missed, then let me know below, as well as picking the bones out of the order I've put them in. I've tried to give more or less equal importance to a) the quality of the actual performance, and b) the quality of the opponent. Other factors, like whether or not they were the underdog and how good a fight it was from a spectator point of view, have also been given a bit of consideration.

The greatest showings in debut world title fights!

1) Muhammad Ali beating Sonny Liston, 1964
2) Ray Leonard beating Wilfred Benitez, 1979
3) Salvador Sanchez beating Danny Lopez, 1980
4) George Foreman beating Joe Frazier, 1973
5) Frankie Randall beating Julio Cesar Chavez, 1994
6) Lionel Rose beating Mashiko 'Fighting' Harada, 1968
7) Michael Nunn beating Frank Tate, 1988
8) Carlos Monzon beating Nino Benvenuti, 1970
9) Lloyd Honeyghan beating Donald Curry, 1986
10) Ruben Olivares beating Lionel Rose, 1969
11) Wilfred Benitez beating Antonio Cervantes, 1976
12) Meldrick Taylor beating James 'Buddy' McGirt, 1988
13) Roberto Duran beating Ken Buchanan, 1972
14) Floyd Mayweather beating Genaro Hernandez, 1998
15) Jose Napoles beating Cutis Cokes, 1969
16) Andre Ward beating Mikkel Kessler, 2009
17) Young Corbett III beating Jackie Fields, 1933
18) Nonito Donaire beating Vic Darchinyan, 2007
19) Evander Holyfield beaing Dwight Muhammad Qawi, 1986
20) Livingstone Bramble beating Ray Mancini, 1984

Honourable mentions to Thomas Hearns hammering Pipino Cuevas in 1980, Naseem Hamed bedazzling Steve Robinson in 1995 and Hector Camacho overwhelming Rafael Limon in 1983.

If you've got any other suggestions of magical performances from fighters taking to the world title stage for the very first time, or if you want to query the order I've got the above in, then fire away lads. Cheers.

Easy with the passing of time to forget Jack Dempsey was seen as the underdog against Jess Willard, most felt he was too small and whilst he was wildly unpopular through his inactivity Willard still had enough aura on the back of beating Johnson to be seen as a bridge too far. As it turned out as convincing a shellacking as anything else on there.

I'd possibly also be tempted to find room for Tunney turning over Dempsey which would seem to score pretty well on both of your criteria.

I'd have Nunn - Tate top....Tate was a world class fighter made to look ordinary by a dazzling show...

Witherspoon was a 12 fight novice against a near prime Larry....

Bowe - Holy was a schooling of a great fighter....

Braddock developed a plan as a 10-1 underdog...

George Groves was looking pretty good in his first attempt, we all know what happened then.

Great idea for a debate though. Some good ones mentioned already

Ray Mancini comes to mind. I was watching a docu on him the other day. When he beat Frias in a barnstormer of a fight. Short as it was, both men were hurt but little boom boom really announced himself with a great performance. I think it was for a little strap but it did not matter as the backstory of Mancini winning the title that his old man was unable to because of injuries suffered in WW2 which curtailed his career.

Was not his first one onetwo, Mancini's first title shot was his defeat to Arguello.

Rowley wrote:Was not his first one onetwo, Mancini's first title shot was his defeat to Arguello.

Oh sorry should have read the thread title better but it was his first world title.

Tyson's beating of Berbick was impressive. There was a lot of pressure on Tyson to perform due to all the hype he was receiving. Not to mention it was 'historic' as he became the youngest heavyweight champ ever at 20 years old.

I still can't look past Randel's job on Chavez. I remember my heart almost jumped out my mouth when he put Chavez down.

Memory's a little hazy on this one but humour me if you will. Was Sergio Martinez first world title bout against Pavlik or did he hold an alphabet beforehand? Can't remember for the life of me.

Dipper Brown wrote:Memory's a little hazy on this one but humour me if you will. Was Sergio Martinez first world title bout against Pavlik or did he hold an alphabet beforehand? Can't remember for the life of me.

He won a strap at light middle but it was interim.

Ah right, cheers. Guess it doesn't count then. Can't claim he was any kind of novice anyway, been around the block a few times.

Interesting shouts, Rowley. I considered putting Dempsey-Willard in there, because as you say it was considered a bit of a turn up for the books at the time, and it was the kind of performance which symbolises everything Dempsey was about. But I just can't get out of my head how inactive Willard had been and how big the gap between how he was perceived and how good he really was looks to be from this point in time (in fairness, he did rack up a couple of decent wins after Dempsey mauled him, such as number two-ranked contender Floyd Johnson which isn't bad going for a 41 year old) and overall that just about put me off. But wouldn't object to anyone putting it in there.

To be honest, I just plumb forgot about Tunney-Dempsey. Would probably have made it in if I'd taken a bit more time.

Truss, great shout on Bowe-Holyfield, another which slipped my mind. I knew you'd probably rate Nunn-Tate a bit higher than I do (not that number seven is low or anything!) but on the whole I just preferred Sanchez's performance over Lopez for the 'wow' affect, and some of the wins higher than Nunn's came against generally better fighters than Tate. But if anyone had it higher, again I wouldn't complain.

I thought about Tyson-Berbick as well, Atila. It was a great world title debut from Tyson and in fairness Berbick gave it a go as best he could, but in many cases the above wins were the highlight of the victor's career, or at least one of their top three or four wins. Can't honestly say that about Berbick when it comes to Tyson, as I'd personally rate his wins and / or performances against Tucker, Spinks, Thomas and Holmes etc higher. But I appreciate the input.

Really interesting thread, to add to an excellent series of choices. One that I do think deserves to be right up the top (and the only one that I see as a serious omission) is Sandy Saddler's demolition of Willie Pep. Sandy was a monster that day and no-one else, not even Saddler himself, ever achieved such total dominance against the great Will o' the Wisp again (and certainly had never done so up to that point in Pep's career). For a first title fight, it was nigh on unbelievable.

Thanks for dropping by, captain.

Agree that Saddler's win over Pep under the circumstances is just about as good as it gets - but I've just never been able to catch it in full! Could and probably should have included it, but just thought it'd make a bit more sense to put in the fights I've seen from start to finish....Give it a personal touch for myself, I guess.

Have seen the readily available parts of the Pep-Saddler series but if anyone can direct me to the first fight in full (if it's out there) then it'd be much appreciated.

A few Brits worth a mention... All dethroning old champions, but old champions no one else had managed to dethrone:

Stracey napoles
Mcguigan pedrosa
Hatton Tszyu

Stracey was away from home too.

If it's just performances, ie it can be a losing performance, nelson giving Sanchez fits after 12 fights and less than two weeks notice.

You started on the zoomy bio yet Chris? Let me know what you think... I value your judgement more than the author's sister... One of three reviews on amazon!

I'm sure that the first fight used to be available on youtube but you're quite right, Chris, it's nowhere to be seen now. I did think of another possible candidate - Bob Foster's near decapitation of Dick Tiger, again accomplishing a feat that was beyond just about everyone else of the era.

As for Brits, milky, I'd have to put in the usual shout for Ken Buchanan here. That performance in San Juan in the most debilitating of outdoor conditions and against a high class champion remains one of the very best world championship debuts ever made by someone from this part of the world.

Only a few pages in at the moment, milky. If he's having to get his sister to drop him a favourable review on Amazon then maybe the omens aren't good! Will let you know how it's shaping up once I've got in to it good 'n' proper.

Yeah captain, I've spoken to a few people like yourself who've seen it in the past but have wondered what happened to it. I'm not the biggest Saddler fan and sat through his fights against Charlie Riley and Del Flanagan a while back and found myself asking how someone could look so poor and limited against these guys (particularly considering that Flanagan and Pep weren't a million miles apart in terms of their styles and approaches to boxing) but then give Pep such a good hiding. Maybe seeing him put Pep to the slaughter in full might give me a new appreciation of him on film (no denying his record is top-notch).

Thought about a couple of the Brit wins mentioned here, particularly Buchanan against Laguna and McGuigan against Pedroza.....Maybe rough justice on them that neither made the cut. Good shouts.

Ali over Liston seems an odd choice Chris. It was either a) a win dogged by controversy or b) a guy being in exactly the right place at the right time (depending on your viewpoint). It was an astonishing result but the fight was pretty level when Liston retired.

I wouldn't have Ward-Kessler in there at all either, certainly not over Hearns-Cuevas.

As for top spot - Foreman over Frazier takes some topping. Liston over Patterson? Tyson over Berbick?

Surely Bowe over Holyfield outranks most?

Yep, as I said to Truss, Bowe-Holyfield was an oversight on my part, Haz.

How controversial Ali-Liston really is comes down to opinion. There are a lot of myths (good and bad) that come with the Ali legend, but I tend to take the first fight at face value; Ali turned up as a 7/1 underdog and put on a sensational, out of the blue showing against a man most felt was unbeatable at that time. The fight only appears even because he had to take a couple of rounds off just staying out of harms way while he was temporarily blinded. Joe Louis, commentating at ringside, said that the first round by Ali "was one of the greatest first rounds in history" and he pretty much stayed at that level when he had both eyes cleared.

Anyway, its significance and the fact that it was such a glorious new way of doing things in the Heavyweight division, which only Ali could really do, probably gives it the edge over most others for me, but hey, that's just my take.

Foreman-Frazier deserves to be top in some respects. Seldom has any other fighter, regardless of whether it's their first world title fight or their twentieth, taken apart an unbeaten all-time great the way Foreman did there. Wouldn't have any problem with anyone putting it on top, but for me it was almost too sudden and brutal, if that makes sense. As I said in the article, performances like Sanchez's against Lopez or Leonard's against Benitez give you a little bit of everything which makes a performance 'great.' And boxing is called the sweet science, after all! On the other hand, Foreman was amazing at what he did, but the extra variety on show from the other guys listed means I can't quite put it at the top.

I think Foreman over Frazier has to rank over Ali-Liston. Ali, or Clay as he was then, shocked everyone but his performance does tend to get overstated. He almost quit at one point (I don't buy the blinded thing either - Ali and Dundee were brilliant myth builders). I think Ali - as inexperienced as he was - wanted out.

Seems odd to penalise Foreman because he didn't throw in a shuffle!

Turpin over Robinson?

You reckon, Haz? You can clearly see on the film that Ali was in discomfort and was squinting and blinking heavily for a long time. A couple of Liston's former opponents had complained of a similar thing when facing him. I don't see any reason why Ali would have wanted out if he didn't have a good reason.

He did indeed ask Dundee to stop the fight (apparently saying "Show the world what's going on!" as he thought the dark forces had conspired to keep him away from the title as he was pretty unpopular at the time) but Dundee wasn't having any of it, as he felt that another title shot would be very, very hard to come by given how Ali was seen almost as a joke figure before he stunned Sonny.

As I said, maybe Foreman could be higher....But it's not as if being at #4 is a bad slight against him either.

hazharrison wrote:Turpin over Robinson?

Ah, now that really is a clanger from me. Should definitely have been in there. Randy took on a near enough peak Robinson, the consensus best fighter of all time, and tattooed him with the jab all night, outmuscled him in the clinches and outsmarted him throughout the fight as well.

Shame on me. Great performance from Turpin!

Of a more recent vintage is there an argument for Rigondeux beating Donaire? Donaire was considered a genuine p4p guy and Rigondeux was pretty new to the pro game.

88Chris05 wrote:

hazharrison wrote:Turpin over Robinson?

Ah, now that really is a clanger from me. Should definitely have been in there. Randy took on a near enough peak Robinson, the consensus best fighter of all time, and tattooed him with the jab all night, outmuscled him in the clinches and outsmarted him throughout the fight as well.

Shame on me. Great performance from Turpin!

Shame on all of us. How did we miss that one!

88Chris05 wrote:You reckon, Haz? You can clearly see on the film that Ali was in discomfort and was squinting and blinking heavily for a long time. A couple of Liston's former opponents had complained of a similar thing when facing him. I don't see any reason why Ali would have wanted out if he didn't have a good reason.

He did indeed ask Dundee to stop the fight (apparently saying "Show the world what's going on!" as he thought the dark forces had conspired to keep him away from the title as he was pretty unpopular at the time) but Dundee wasn't having any of it, as he felt that another title shot would be very, very hard to come by given how Ali was seen almost as a joke figure before he stunned Sonny.

As I said, maybe Foreman could be higher....But it's not as if being at #4 is a bad slight against him either.

Ali would never admit he wanted out as he was scared. I think he was, though. I fancy Liston's strength spooked him. Dundee making him fight was perhaps his greatest ever piece of corner work.

If Ali was blinded, his eyes would have been affected, surely? Swollen or reddened?

I also think Liston was in the tank that night but that's just me.

We were all wrapped up in Sandra-gate, milky.

Rowley wrote:Of a more recent vintage is there an argument for Rigondeux beating Donaire? Donaire was considered a genuine p4p guy and Rigondeux was pretty new to the pro game.

Great shout. One of the better picks of the modern lot.

Great performance from Rigondeaux, but that was a unification bout - he'd already won the WBA belt.

Price I pay when I try and discuss the modern game Chris!

milkyboy wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:

hazharrison wrote:Turpin over Robinson?

Ah, now that really is a clanger from me. Should definitely have been in there. Randy took on a near enough peak Robinson, the consensus best fighter of all time, and tattooed him with the jab all night, outmuscled him in the clinches and outsmarted him throughout the fight as well.

Shame on me. Great performance from Turpin!

Shame on all of us. How did we miss that one!

Yes I agree, shame on milky. You mentioned McGuigan, Stracey and Hatton but forget Turpin.

Seriusly though, shame on me too. It must have been a massive result back then.

Rowley wrote:Price I pay when I try and discuss the modern game Chris!

You just robbed me of my Turpin brownie points!

88Chris05 wrote:

hazharrison wrote:Turpin over Robinson?

Ah, now that really is a clanger from me. Should definitely have been in there. Randy took on a near enough peak Robinson, the consensus best fighter of all time, and tattooed him with the jab all night, outmuscled him in the clinches and outsmarted him throughout the fight as well.

Shame on me. Great performance from Turpin!

Taking nothing away from Turpin as he fought brilliantly in the second fight but in the first SRR was at the end of a jaunt around Europe doing exhibitions and fighting nobodies. He apartently enjoyed an abundance of women and wine on the tour.  By the time of the 1st Turpin fight he probably wasn't at his best.

Ward's performance against Kessler should never be on a list of performances described as best ever. It was as ugly as it gets.

Strongback wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:

hazharrison wrote:Turpin over Robinson?

Ah, now that really is a clanger from me. Should definitely have been in there. Randy took on a near enough peak Robinson, the consensus best fighter of all time, and tattooed him with the jab all night, outmuscled him in the clinches and outsmarted him throughout the fight as well.

Shame on me. Great performance from Turpin!

Taking nothing away from Turpin as he fought brilliantly in the second fight but in the first SRR was at the end of a jaunt around Europe doing exhibitions and fighting nobodies. He apartently enjoyed an abundance of women and wine on the tour.  By the time of the 1st Turpin fight he probably wasn't at his best.

Ward's performance against Kessler should never be on a list of performances described as best ever. It was as ugly as it gets.

He was still Robinson, though. I guess you could make excuses for a fair number of the beaten fighters above. Perhaps Leonard over Benitez belongs at the top in that case?

Leon Spinks in his 7th professional fight against Ali should rate a mention even if he did lose it in the return.

rapidringsroad wrote:Leon Spinks in his 7th professional fight against Ali should rate a mention even if he did lose it in the return.

A very amazing result for sure. I know it's easy with hindsight to say that Ali was probably showing early signs of Parkinsons, but in Ali's last before Spinks he managed to beat Earnie Shavers. You would think that if he could defeat someone like Shavers he'd have more than enough to beat Spinks. Add to that Spinks was able to fight 15 rounds after 7 fights when even today, after all the improvements that have been made in sports medicine and science, we have fighters who run out of steam late in fights that are only 12 rounders.

Charles Williams was thought to be a journeyman when Czyz fought him on HBO..Got off the deck twice and stunned everybody..

Chandler was being talked about as a near great when little Richie Sandoval beat him...

Mayweather Jr vs Hernandez

hazharrison wrote:

Strongback wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:

hazharrison wrote:Turpin over Robinson?

Ah, now that really is a clanger from me. Should definitely have been in there. Randy took on a near enough peak Robinson, the consensus best fighter of all time, and tattooed him with the jab all night, outmuscled him in the clinches and outsmarted him throughout the fight as well.

Shame on me. Great performance from Turpin!

Taking nothing away from Turpin as he fought brilliantly in the second fight but in the first SRR was at the end of a jaunt around Europe doing exhibitions and fighting nobodies. He apartently enjoyed an abundance of women and wine on the tour.  By the time of the 1st Turpin fight he probably wasn't at his best.

Ward's performance against Kessler should never be on a list of performances described as best ever. It was as ugly as it gets.

He was still Robinson, though. I guess you could make excuses for a fair number of the beaten fighters above. Perhaps Leonard over Benitez belongs at the top in that case?

He also told his trainer not to bet on him winning the rematch against Turpin so even SRR wasn't convinced it was just an off night.

Few others:

Pryor over Cervantes
Rahman over Lewis
Zivic over Armstrong

Laszlo Papp performed amazingly well in my head.

Couple of more modern ones.

Pavlik upsetting Taylor
Roy Jones Jr cruising past Hopkins
And I'm shocked this isn't on here already but Toney stopping Nunn, bit before my time but I think that was his first world title tilt.

Rowley won't like this but I'm putting up one of my favorites...Gentleman Jim Corbett who people forget beat a legendary monster...Not only beat him but outclassed him..........Sure John L was a Boston boy and past his best...But it still took skill and bottle...

Surely an honourable mention should go to John H Stracey and his beating of Jose Napoles in Mexico City.

Not exactly top of the tree but how about Michael Bentt against Tommy Morrison for the WBO title? Saw his chance & took it. Bang, goodnight!

bellchees wrote:Couple of more modern ones.

Pavlik upsetting Taylor
Roy Jones Jr cruising past Hopkins
And I'm shocked this isn't on here already but Toney stopping Nunn, bit before my time but I think that was his first world title tilt.

Chris, didn't have toney nunn on his list because he gets fed up trying (and failing) to convince everyone that it wasn't a one-sided beatdown rescued by a Hail Mary.

Don't make me dig up the post where you half-agreed with me on that point, milky.

I don't know. You take pity on a guy, show a little empathy, and this is how he repays you!