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Pak v. Aus

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Post by KP_fan Tue 07 Oct 2014, 12:02 pm

First topic message reminder :

In UAE..it's a good series......only 3ODIs and I believe 3 tests.

Saw the Pak bowling in the T20 and though they lost.......they have amazing talent in bowling...a new SLA who flights well, turns it big and has a very deceptive arm ball that actually turns into the RHB.

and Mohd Irfan was effortlessly bowling at 148kph.
the first ODI is underway now.

Aussie batting with AJ Finch, DA Warner, SPD Smith, GJ Bailey*, GJ Maxwell, JP Faulkner, BJ Haddin†

looks like a T20 line-up....missing the solidity and inning building capabilty
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Post by KP_fan Sun 02 Nov 2014, 9:49 am

well Aus has crumbled mentally like Dhoni's side in Eng
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Post by Gerry SA Sun 02 Nov 2014, 10:42 am

It's a truly sad state of affairs when flat track bullies like Ali and Ul-Haq score twin Test hundreds in the same Test.

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Post by KP_fan Mon 03 Nov 2014, 8:26 am

in the 4th attempt Aus batting shows some fight.....Smith on the verge of a hundred and the twin gutsy innings from Marsh may have sealed his place ahead of Watson for some time at least.

can they resist two more sessions and 57 overs........very hard task...because one goes and then a few more tumble quickly.
although every one of Aussie lower order can either hang around or attack and score.....
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Post by kingraf Mon 03 Nov 2014, 8:33 am

Yip, further illustration of why Misbah was right to bat on. Had this occurred third innings, Pakistan might have been tasked with a run chase from which choking was not out of their range. As it is now, Australia are just trying to survive.
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Post by KP_fan Mon 03 Nov 2014, 8:34 am

kingraf wrote:Yip, further illustration of why Misbah was right to bat on. Had this occurred third innings, Pakistan might have been tasked with a run chase from which choking was not out of their range. As it is now, Australia are just trying to survive.

OK
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Post by Pal Joey Mon 03 Nov 2014, 9:09 am

Too hard to watch, guys.

To be honest, I've been doing my best to avoid watching the disaster unfold. Just switched it on now... only 2 more wickets needed.
Huh... I guess it will be back to the drawing board again when they return home.

By the way, I think their heads are all in the wrong place. I knew it.
The team walked headlong into this series like a quokka would walk straight into a fox's den.

Hopefully things can only get better from here on... as another wicket falls.
On second thoughts, I better sign off before it's all over very shortly!

Well done Pakistan. They played very well indeed. They knew what they needed to do and they did it to script beautifully. You hold the Test sword now and you deserve it.
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Post by KP_fan Mon 03 Nov 2014, 9:19 am

In the end ...the end came quite fast.

Aus cannot be in denial anymore.....they have a problem on slow pitches that spin a bit....

lost 4-0 in India
lost 3 tests to Swann on such pitches in the Ashes in Eng
down 2-0 here on similar pitches in UAE
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Post by kingraf Mon 03 Nov 2014, 9:29 am

It's not really a problem when you're completely incapable of playing slow bowling. It's a disaster. What a beatdown.

I'll be collecting my 7/2 on the 2-0 now Very Happy
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Post by Pal Joey Mon 03 Nov 2014, 9:40 am

Yeah, KP_f.

So the trend continues.
Even with Murali alongside the group and the "promise" to play spin better in this 2nd Test. It now seems like hollow words but it's more than that.

I believe that at certain times (especially in UAE conditions as well as on the sub-continent) they simply lack the patience and application of the appropriate technique to survive for long periods at the crease against any sort of organised spin attack. It's a major worry for us obviously.

The only consolation for us is time. Time to let go by (hopefully that will happen quickly) until we are distracted once again by the upcoming T20s v SA, Tests v India and then the ODI Triangular Series... before the World Cup.

However, for me, it's a pretty bad low point for our Test side. It's not something you can quickly forget either.
If this were a 5-Test series... we'd be even more humiliated than we are now. They were absolutely given a towelling down by this Pakistan side.
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Post by Mad for Chelsea Mon 03 Nov 2014, 10:05 am

I tend to agree with what some of LB is saying. Aus batsmen are brought up on pitches that reward positive, attacking strokeplay. You only have to see the last Ashes to recognise that it's a successful approach on those pitches (contrasted to England's overly negative approach).

This approach doesn't work on subcontinental style pitches, and not enough of Australia's line-up is proficient at just knocking the ball around and rotating the strike against the spinners.

Then there's the bowling. Johnson bowled his heart out here and got decent response overall, but Siddle looked pretty ineffective. Lyon's a great foil when his seam attack is potent, but needs to work on becoming more of a threat in his own right in helpful conditions IMO (there've been a few occasions when you expected him to deliver on spinning/wearing pitches and he hasn't quite done it). I thought Mitch Marsh looked a decent bowler, hit the pitch hard and got some seam movement at times, maybe even a little under-used.

Then there's selection. Rogers is not getting any younger and really struggled here, against both seam and spin, has to be a worry. They're not sure who their n°3 is, Maxwell's bowling certainly doesn't look up to much at this level, but his batting may have potential. Maybe he deserves a long-ish run. Clarke didn't have a good series, but he and Smith are definitely part of the middle-order, which leaves the one spot. I think Mitch Marsh did enough here with two battling innings and some decent seam bowling to be given a run.

Haddin could be another concern. Obviously you don't want to over-react to a poor series, and he was smashing England all over the place not that long ago, so... But he averages 46 at home and just 26 away, that's a huge gap and maybe symptomatic of the Aus malaise away from home (that average dips to 20 in Asia, with only two fifties from 18 innings).

Then you get to the bowlers. Johnson, obviously. Lyon should be persevered with, not had a great year but Aus need to resist the temptation to go back to the revolving door policy. Plenty of seam options, but Siddle and Harris are probably the most likely at the moment still.

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Post by kingraf Mon 03 Nov 2014, 10:18 am

What to say - Warner was brilliant, at what he does, but is what he does what you need? A run a ball hundred is great and all, but sometimes, like in the first test, all it does really is give the opposition more time. Reminds me, in some ways of the South Africa-England series in 2003, when we scored 484 runs all out before lunch. It's great that we had 500-odd, but left England with so much time to make a play. We lost.

Just think Australia could be more circumspect at times. Their shotmaking was at times self inflicted suicide. Think they. need to have a good look, really. No point saying you're susceptible to spin when it's the straight one getting half the team out.
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Post by KP_fan Mon 03 Nov 2014, 11:14 am

Mad for Chelsea wrote:I tend to agree with what some of LB is saying. Aus batsmen are brought up on pitches that reward positive, attacking strokeplay. You only have to see the last Ashes to recognise that it's a successful approach on those pitches (contrasted to England's overly negative approach).

This approach doesn't work on subcontinental style pitches, and not enough of Australia's line-up is proficient at just knocking the ball around and rotating the strike against the spinners.

Then there's the bowling. Johnson bowled his heart out here and got decent response overall, but Siddle looked pretty ineffective. Lyon's a great foil when his seam attack is potent, but needs to work on becoming more of a threat in his own right in helpful conditions IMO (there've been a few occasions when you expected him to deliver on spinning/wearing pitches and he hasn't quite done it). I thought Mitch Marsh looked a decent bowler, hit the pitch hard and got some seam movement at times, maybe even a little under-used.

Then there's selection. Rogers is not getting any younger and really struggled here, against both seam and spin, has to be a worry. They're not sure who their n°3 is, Maxwell's bowling certainly doesn't look up to much at this level, but his batting may have potential. Maybe he deserves a long-ish run. Clarke didn't have a good series, but he and Smith are definitely part of the middle-order, which leaves the one spot. I think Mitch Marsh did enough here with two battling innings and some decent seam bowling to be given a run.

Haddin could be another concern. Obviously you don't want to over-react to a poor series, and he was smashing England all over the place not that long ago, so... But he averages 46 at home and just 26 away, that's a huge gap and maybe symptomatic of the Aus malaise away from home (that average dips to 20 in Asia, with only two fifties from 18 innings).

Then you get to the bowlers. Johnson, obviously. Lyon should be persevered with, not had a great year but Aus need to resist the temptation to go back to the revolving door policy. Plenty of seam options, but Siddle and Harris are probably the most likely at the moment still.

that's a very fair summary.
Aus missing Ryan Harris who I rate ( whose statistics prove it) as the most potent bowler in the world today and one in leading strike rates of all time category.
His presence lends more teeth to Johnson.


the only position that Aus has to review is of Rogers.......he's put mind over matter....punched above his weight for a full series and a half...but they need anotehr opener sooner than later.......Aaron Finch would be my man.
Finch, Warner and Maxwell....3 absolute gamechangers in the 11....
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Post by KP_fan Mon 03 Nov 2014, 11:33 am

just verfied Harris has a SR of 48 balls / wicket over 24 tests and 100+ wickets ( so it's not a flash in pan one or two series stats)

games most potent bowlers' SR are follows....and wow look at Steyn's 41 in this era of covered and FLAT pitches....just wow Shocked

Harris 48, Anderson 60, Steyn 41, Hadlee 50, Lillee 52, Marshal 47, Holding 51, Donald 47
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Post by Duty281 Mon 03 Nov 2014, 11:55 am

Well done to Pakistan.

And well done to the bookmakers: offering 11/10 on Pakistan to win at stumps on Day Two was far too kind.

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Post by JDizzle Mon 03 Nov 2014, 1:15 pm

KP_fan wrote:just verfied Harris has a SR of 48 balls / wicket over 24 tests and 100+ wickets ( so it's not a flash in pan one or two series stats)

games most potent bowlers' SR are follows....and wow look at Steyn's 41 in this era of covered and FLAT pitches....just wow Shocked

Harris 48, Anderson 60, Steyn 41, Hadlee 50, Lillee 52, Marshal 47, Holding 51, Donald 47
Looking at those names, and then considering that after 87 Test wickets Shane Bond had a strike rate of 37.8. Very unfortunate guy.

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Post by KP_fan Mon 03 Nov 2014, 2:05 pm

JDizzle wrote:
KP_fan wrote:just verfied Harris has a SR of 48 balls / wicket over 24 tests and 100+ wickets ( so it's not a flash in pan one or two series stats)

games most potent bowlers' SR are follows....and wow look at Steyn's 41 in this era of covered and FLAT pitches....just wow Shocked

Harris 48, Anderson 60, Steyn 41, Hadlee 50, Lillee 52, Marshal 47, Holding 51, Donald 47
Looking at those names, and then considering that after 87 Test wickets Shane Bond had a strike rate of 37.8. Very unfortunate guy.

The types of Harris, Bond, Simon Jones, Pat Patterson, Pat Cummins, Marchant De Lang have shown ...if you are too good......then the body doesn't last too long.

Which makes Steyn with his longevity even more amazing
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Post by kingraf Mon 03 Nov 2014, 2:26 pm

Would have gone down, to be honest. There's a reason there's always a minimum requirement for these things. Steyn's SR was at one stage 38!! Similarly, Philander actually got to 100 sticks with a SR not much more than 30. Still, I enjoyed Bond, I do love raw pace
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Post by KP_fan Mon 03 Nov 2014, 3:03 pm

kingraf wrote:Would have gone down, to be honest.

when someone sustains it for the first 100 odd wickets....then over the 100 wickets he is very high potential...period...and it's not a flash in the pan.

then some bowlers drag on in lower gears like Walsh , Kapil and doznes of other examples who went on in lower gear ( higher SR) for many more years.

maybe Bond could have returned as an effective fast medium bowler.
maybe Ryano could afford to play 40 more tests cutting down his pace... if he was an Indian or Zim bowler.

and hence when Steyn has sustained it over 75 tests aand 400 wickets.....he is simply in the "games greatest" bracket now
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Post by msp83 Wed 05 Nov 2014, 6:04 pm

Australia struggle against spin. Other than Smith and Clarke, they don't have the technique and the temperament to play spin, Warner is a player who can go beyond technique at times and produce the goods, but he's not going to bat time, and won't be effective doing that either. Phillip Hughes is a joke against spin, and picking him in the squad was wasting a place, and as the team management realized the same, they went in with the slogger Maxwell. Now Maxwell can be an exciting shot maker, but his temperament is basically that of a slogger. Might come off in the odd innings, but most often, that won't be lasting, and his game against spin is pure and simple mindless slogging. Get Watson or Shaun Marsh back in at 3, may be give the younger marsh a chance down the order as he did alright in his debut test series. If Mitch Marsh and Watson play in the same side, that should help Clarke make the best use of Johnson and even Watson.
Anyways, Australia can forget this utter humiliation pretty soon, the Indian squad for a 4-0 drubbing is soon to be announced!!!.

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