Lydiate, Roberts and Philips could leave Racing in the next few days

First topic message reminder :

Wales stars Jamie Roberts, Mike Phillips and Dan Lydiate could leave Racing Metro in the coming days, according to reports in France.

The trio joined the exodus of some of the nation's leading players ahead of the 2013-14 season.

Racing Metro coach Laurent Labit is quoted in L'Equipe as saying: "We have raised the subject with them.

"They have never really been that effective since their arrival." Racing declined to comment officially.

Lydiate and Roberts' agents have also been asked to comment.

Roberts and Lydiate joined the Paris-based club ahead of the 2013-14 season while Phillips moved there in December, 2013 after being dismissed for disciplinary reasons by former club Bayonne.

If they want to play for potential new teams in this season's European competitions, the trio must move ahead of the tournament start this week.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/29610121

Thoughts? The WRU would help buy them out of their contracts

Hound the comment about Phillips and fast ball was tongue in cheek. I say Bristol because they have lots of money.
But in all honesty I can't see Phillips getting a first team place in any English Premiership club.
Maybe share a half with Weepu?





In the bar

I realise that Trev
 
Do you reckon that they could handle a half between them 

Hound of Harrow wrote:I realise that Trev

Do you reckon that they could handle a half each

What in the bar, or on the pitch ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/29626218

Phillips denies it too. I'd be surprised if Racing wanted shot of him too, he's a very good player off the bench for them.

Out of the 3 I think Lydiate is the most likely to return as it really hasn't worked for him out there.

Don't know what Racing were expecting with Lydiate. Shame things haven't worked out there though.

Racing signed Lydiate in the light of his amazing performance in the 2012 6N, i wouldn't be surprised if they had never seen him play in a Dragons shirt where he has often been underwhelming in my eyes considering his pedigree.

Just bear in mind that the miraculous rapid change of mind isn't unknown in Rugby-wheeling'n'dealing circles.

Often a player can say in one breath: "Me? -  Moving? -  Who told you that? -  Never heard of it.  I'm far too happy and comforta...................................... yes, I've already signed the new contract and am flying home yesterday where I saw my new boss two days ago and I was even photgaphed in the new kit"

Like all those Lion player call ups to cover injuries who somehow found the time to get a full kit photo shoot done before they flew out.

If the rumors are correct, Lydiate is likely to come back first and end up at the Ospreys as he does not seem keen to go back to the Dragons.
Roberts is badly needed at the Blues but that will give them 3 centrally contracted players with only 1 between the other 3 regions.
Phillips is probably needed most at either the Dragons or Blues, if he goes to the Dragons he will provide some much needed experience in a young inexperienced squad and he will complete the full set having played for all 4 regions.
I am sure the Scarlets would love to get JD2 and North back as their back line is currently seriously lacking penetration.

What about:
Dragons: Charteris & Phillips
Blues: Roberts & Evans
Ospreys: Lydiate & Halfpenny
Scarlets: JD2 & North

Lydiate is an example of a player who is really, really, really good at some specific aspects of the game and with a coach who knows how to use his strengths can be devastatingly effective...

...but under a coach who doesn't know, can be not even very influential at all. Not surprised that it hasn't worked out for him in France. Will be good for him and for Wales to get back into the fold and I think he could do really well for the Ospreys.

Notch wrote:Lydiate is an example of a player who is really, really, really good at some specific aspects of the game and with a coach who knows how to use his strengths can be devastatingly effective...

...but under a coach who doesn't know, can be not even very influential at all. Not surprised that it hasn't worked out for him in France. Will be good for him and for Wales to get back into the fold and I think he could do really well for the Ospreys.

The thing is Notch, he was very rarely used as a lineout option by TW, whereas we Os have mainly had our 6 doing that kind of work, whether it was John Thomas, Ryan Jones and now James King. King last season because of Ian Evans problems (Suspension, loss of form)had to play a lot in the 2nd row, this has helped him into IMO a really viable option as a 6 at all levels, can we do the same for Lydiate? Who Knows?

According to a well informed poster on a different board (NOT OURS) he has already signed for us

Does this poster go by the initials of JB? He's not a bad addition to the squad now is he.

Notch wrote:Lydiate is an example of a player who is really, really, really good at some specific aspects of the game and with a coach who knows how to use his strengths can be devastatingly effective...

...but under a coach who doesn't know, can be not even very influential at all. Not surprised that it hasn't worked out for him in France. Will be good for him and for Wales to get back into the fold and I think he could do really well for the Ospreys.

Is that a way of saying he can be effective in a poor league but not effective in the top league in Europe?

The Saint wrote:Does this poster go by the initials of JB? He's not a bad addition to the squad now is he.

I don't know who the poster is Saint, I've been given it 2nd hand, as for how good an addition he will be, I've given my views earlier, we (Wales) should be going for 4 strong teams, other teams need him more than we do, if the premise is that these returnees should go to teams that are in the RCC, it will be only these teams who will qualify for the RCC for a number of years and we could get back to the days of 2008 and have overwhelming numbers of TW from 2 teams rather than 1. We NEED 4 STRONG TEAMS.

Dragons fans can feel free to correct me but Lydiate has never been as effective for the Dragons as he has for Wales.

Notch summed up pretty well, great player when properly coached and being given confidence.

The Saint wrote:Does this poster go by the initials of JB? He's not a bad addition to the squad now is he.

Now there is a poster I miss, same goes for ospreylian.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

The Saint wrote:Does this poster go by the initials of JB? He's not a bad addition to the squad now is he.

Now there is a poster I miss, same goes for ospreylian.  

SS, was he the one who used to name the Welsh team before it was announced, he was remarkably well informed, if it was him? I'd believe it.

Not too sure I think that the team leak bloke was a Turk cos I remember asking if he was really McBryde, but both those ospreys fans were very knowlegable, and definitely in the know somehow.

Exiledinborders wrote:

Notch wrote:Lydiate is an example of a player who is really, really, really good at some specific aspects of the game and with a coach who knows how to use his strengths can be devastatingly effective...

...but under a coach who doesn't know, can be not even very influential at all. Not surprised that it hasn't worked out for him in France. Will be good for him and for Wales to get back into the fold and I think he could do really well for the Ospreys.

Is that a way of saying he can be effective in a poor league but not effective in the top league in Europe?

Putting aside the amusing suggestion that the Top14 is the top league in Europe in terms of quality, the answer is no, he was never effective in the Pro12 either. It was only ever in the test arena that he really thrived which is a higher level than any club competition. He was solid but mediocre for the Dragons and brilliant in test rugby for Wales including against SH sides and in the World Cup. He really was a non-entity for the Dragons at times- a back row including lydiate and Faletau looked fearsome on paper but never troubled the top teams. He was signed for his Welsh form but Gatland clearly knows how to use him, Travers and Labit don't/have a different game plan.

wayne wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

The Saint wrote:Does this poster go by the initials of JB? He's not a bad addition to the squad now is he.

Now there is a poster I miss, same goes for ospreylian.  

SS, was he the one who used to name the Welsh team before it was announced, he was remarkably well informed, if it was him? I'd believe it.  

Yeah those were both good posters. Both excellent at putting crap wum's like nottins and Hersh in their places as well.

VinceWLB wrote:Dragons fans can feel free to correct me but Lydiate has never been as effective for the Dragons as he has for Wales.

Notch summed up pretty well, great player when properly coached and being given confidence.

Agree and certainly a player we don't need. I'm more than happy with the backrow we have out tomorrow and even 40% of Lydiate's wage would be better spent elsewhere.

Notch wrote:

Exiledinborders wrote:

Notch wrote:Lydiate is an example of a player who is really, really, really good at some specific aspects of the game and with a coach who knows how to use his strengths can be devastatingly effective...

...but under a coach who doesn't know, can be not even very influential at all. Not surprised that it hasn't worked out for him in France. Will be good for him and for Wales to get back into the fold and I think he could do really well for the Ospreys.

Is that a way of saying he can be effective in a poor league but not effective in the top league in Europe?

Putting aside the amusing suggestion that the Top14 is the top league in Europe in terms of quality, the answer is no, he was never effective in the Pro12 either. It was only ever in the test arena that he really thrived which is a higher level than any club competition. He was solid but mediocre for the Dragons and brilliant in test rugby for Wales including against SH sides and in the World Cup. He really was a non-entity for the Dragons at times- a back row including lydiate and Faletau looked fearsome on paper but never troubled the top teams. He was signed for his Welsh form but Gatland clearly knows how to use him, Travers and Labit don't/have a different game plan.

I think you're re-writing history a bit there, Notch. If he was 'solid but mediocre for the Dragons' he would never have been called up for Wales in the first place. Also, the 'back row including Lydiate and Faletau... never troubled the top teams' because the rest of the side was poor. Two players can only do so much! It's true to say that he performed better for Wales than he did for us, but again that's because the whole team was of a higher standard.

Correct - two players can only do so much.  
But also, two players of Wales International calibre can also be capable of seeing that very same truth on their own, withy their own eyes and senses.
And, therefore, not only would they be capable of acknowledging that they're 'on their own' in terms of 'standard',  they would also be capable of actually putting the brakes on any International class heroics that might serve to achieve nothing (in terms of the overall ability of their team) except potential injury.

We often go back to the oft mentioned truth that many Irish Internationals put Province before International. They fought harder, hit harder, ran harder, got blooded up emotionally much more.
I've always felt that same truth operate with certain Wales International players - in that their priorities were always more International based than Region.
That doesn't even have to be consciously there, it can be a subconscious selectivity when it comes to giving your all.

He obviously wasn't terrible. But if you knew nothing about welsh rugby and you watched him play for the Dragons at any point in his time there, you would never be able to pick him out as a test player when compared to the other Dragons players who weren't unless you already knew. Accept it's very hard to shine as a blindside when your tight five are in reverse gear but by the same token he never stood out. Thats not the kind of player he is though.

Lydiate has always been picked to one specific job and that's of a destructive tackler, which is what he does best. By him doing that role it allowed Warburton and Faletau to concentrate on their game.

To say that Dan was not that impressive for the Dragons, is not true, I can remember Dragons fans saying how him and Faletau should have been in the Welsh team well over a year earlier than they forced their way in ahead of Ryan Jones and Johnathon Thomas, he was a lot more than a one trick pony at that time, Gatland knew he had this game plan that Dan was the perfect fit for and that is how he forced his way in, the rest is history.