Winners of the 6ns based on the Ais.

Should be Ireland in first place.

England/Wales/Wales/England fighting it out for 2nd 3rd place.

Have not seen any of the France games or Scotland games for that matter.

Will their be a GRAND SLAM next year? probably not.

But it will be very exciting to see if the Ais have any bearing on the 6ns.

Your thoughts.

I dont think it ll have a massive bearing. Thought the 6Ns would be between England and Ireland before and still do now.

On AI form then I would say Ireland but we have seen time and time again over the years how the 6 Nations doesn't go to form.

From a Welsh perspective at least we have the two faves (according to some) at home so that may have big bearing on it.

Wales were defeated in the 2012 summer tour and in all 4 of their autumn internationals and then won the 6Nations. I want to believe form in the autumn internationals counts for a lot, but its going to down to which team has better depth.

I don't think Scotland will win the tournament, but I'm convinced that the matches against Scotland (particularly with Ireland and Wales playing at Murrayfield) will decide who does win.

Ireland / England fighting for first place, no grand slam.  Not a huge difference between the rest.  

Probable finishing order
Ireland
England
France
Scotland
Wales
Italy

Ireland - most complete "team"
England - most strength in depth, inability to create enough in the backs
France - too inconstant
Scotland - great players in many positions, ability to score tries - inexperience and no strength in depth
Wales - limited game plan, indecision of selection in critical areas, no strength in depth
Italy - getting closer year on year.  Still short of enough class players

England Grand Slam

You heard it here first

can't call it

looking at the AI's I believe it is between Ireland and England, but then the results are sometimes completely against what form would suggest.

I don't think there is any mental baggage between these teams which makes it unpredictable.

Wales v England first up in the MS on a Friday night

bedfordwelsh wrote:Wales v England first up in the MS on a Friday night

Like all six nations games this one is crucial - but maybe even more so. Momentum is all especially for wales. Beating England will put them in a good place, loosing a very bad one. Will it be Orc ball or Warrenball that wins?

I feel sorry for those lucky enough to get tickets but then unlucky enough having to try and get home after the game.

I can see it being close between the usual suspects (Wales, France, Ireland and England). It could come down to how many points these sides rack up against Italy and Scotland.

I doubt there will be a Grand Slam.

TJ wrote:Ireland / England fighting for first place, no grand slam.  Not a huge difference between the rest.  

Probable finishing order
Ireland
England
France
Scotland
Wales
Italy

Ireland - most complete "team"
England - most strength in depth, inability to create enough in the backs
France - too inconstant
Scotland - great players in many positions, ability to score tries - inexperience and no strength in depth
Wales - limited game plan, indecision of selection in critical areas, no strength in depth
Italy - getting closer year on year.  Still short of enough class players

We'll see. Good luck with it though...

Based on the Autumn games, Ireland will win at a canter! England & Wales look about on par
followed by France and an improving Scotland and rather poor Italy.

Cyril wrote:I can see it being close between the usual suspects (Wales, France, Ireland and England). It could come down to how many points these sides rack up against Italy and Scotland.

I doubt there will be a Grand Slam.

When was the last time France were a usual suspect? They still look inconsistent, and I'm not really worried about Wales going to Paris to play them.

The Saint wrote:

Cyril wrote:I can see it being close between the usual suspects (Wales, France, Ireland and England). It could come down to how many points these sides rack up against Italy and Scotland.

I doubt there will be a Grand Slam.

When was the last time France were a usual suspect? They still look inconsistent, and I'm not really worried about Wales going to Paris to play them.

Yeah they are no longer a force away from home and are even becoming hit and miss when they're at home.I think every team will fancy their chances against France next year,the Scots may not be good enough just yet to win in Paris but if they keep their AI's form up then they definitely could do it while Italy have no fear of the French in Rome.

I think the French might be getting their act together and will have by the World Cup.

6Ns might be a bit early for them.

France are going to take it in Spring. Coming in under the radar. Surprise packet that people are taking too lightly in advance AND...they're all going to be much fresher than the Lions players who afterall had that summer energy draining contest against the Aussies in 2013!!

2005, 2008, 2012  Grand Slams (with title win 2013)...

2015 Wales Grand Slam... There I've said it..

That record will at last put end to all doubt to Wales credentials as top NH team, and will pace us nicely to win the 2015 RWC...

(I must still be p!$$ed... )

Ireland are favorites as far as I'm concerned although I think it will be a very hard fought campaign. Cyril I agree regarding France and I won't be writing them off as contenders.

No9 wrote:2005, 2008, 2012  Grand Slams (with title win 2013)...

2015 Wales Grand Slam... There I've said it..

That record will at last put end to all doubt to Wales credentials as top NH team, and will pace us nicely to win the 2015 RWC...

(I must still be p!$$ed... )

If you are not pi$$ed, then stop smoking those funny fags.

I think tries/points scored will again be a big determining factor on who gets first.
So, it's really not so much which side will be best but how bad a single side might be and how effectively contenders use them as points gainers.
Italy tends to be that side.  God help them but it looks like they'll be the side again for contenders to chase down, hunt down and attack, attack and attack to get the necessary points that might get you over the line at the end.

If they're not in a mood to be used as fodder, then the 6N will get more interesting.

France can happen any year. And if they do, people won't be too surprised if they are in the running again after being rock-bottom. So they won't be dark horses. The dark horse will be the navy boys from up North. With Cotter in charge they have the potential to be a very big thorn in the progress of more 'traditional' sides.

I see my country is written down as usual
You might want to know that we have been secretly building under the radar to target the 6N .... in 2018 (after the next lions tour of course as those are the ones the world expect us to win )

whocares wrote:I see my country is written down as usual
You might want to know that we have been secretly building under the radar to target the 6N .... in 2018 (after the next lions tour of course as those are the ones the world expect us to win )

Hey, I've been bigging up your side, whocares.

That's only so it's sweeter when we rosbifs beat you at HQ

Wales will win if they beat England first up, if not i see France shocking us all.
Ireland are in a good place but France and England will have the measure of them.
England look very solid but solid wont win you more than three in a row.
Scotland are from what they think right now.
Italy are going backwards.

Call me Wales biased but as of the coming 2015 six nations they have won 40% of them in the last decade, a stat that can not be ignored.

Ireland to win

No Slam

Close in the middle, impossible to place France and Wales-Eng close.
Scotland look dangerous, will turn over a big team, could aim for 3rd maybe

Italy have some work to do

Wideboyprop55 wrote:Wales will win if they beat England first up, if not i see France shocking us all.
Ireland are in a good place but France and England will have the measure of them.
England look very solid but solid wont win you more than three in a row.
Scotland are from what they think right now.
Italy are going backwards.

Call me Wales biased but as of the coming 2015 six nations they have won 40% of them in the last decade, a stat that can not be ignored.

But the rest of us were all busy doing other things each and every time they won  England were busy rebuilding (which was a long term plan that started post 2003!)  France were busy being erratic geniuses with heavy set DOC PHIL issues.  And Ireland were much too busy being Bad.

England have the House almost complete now, just a little landscaping around the edges.
France are still barking mad but they simply mis-timed their Lions Win year as someone forgot to set the alarm.  They say they'll get back to traditions this year - even IF a little belated.
And Ireland are testing out a new gameplan, which is playing something called rugby.  It's still in its infancy but touch wood, they're learning fast and might learn enough by February to be still good at it before they inevitably lose patience and elect to go back to where their heart is in mediocrity.

So Wales?  40% is a good calling card but it'll be sweaty work.  Lots of deoderant required.

I think England will win. They'll beat Wales first up and get revenge on France. I'm not sure if they'll win in Dublin, but that game will only be the difference between a Grand Slam and a title won on points.

Wales will recover from the early loss, improve with every game and win their next four, to finish second.

France will be rubbish, but will pull out their best performance against Ireland, along with wins over Italy and Scotland to come third.

Scotland will be competent enough to only lose narrowly to the top three and beat Ireland and Italy.

Ireland will come crashing down to earth as they try to expand their game beyond kicking and tackling and will go down in flames just like they did under Kidney. They will be shocked by defeat in Scotland. They will avoid total disaster if they beat England.

Italy will be terrible as usual.

I think Ireland will defend it fairly easily. They might lose one but at face value they're the best side in the NH at the moment. Consistency in results and selection is way ahead of anyone at the moment.

Ireland first, England second - rankings don't lie.

Scotland will probably be the determining factor - they'll beat Italy and take down one of France, England or Wales.

George Carlin wrote:Ireland first, England second - rankings don't lie.

Scotland will probably be the determining factor - they'll beat Italy and take down one of France, England or Wales.

yep...I'd go with that. I expect a better showing from Scotland. Cotter will target the ones he thinks he can win.

Well having tried to watch as many games as possible this autumn I would also have to make Ireland my favourites for the six nations. Great squad, excellent coach and four provincial sides all playing very good rugby. I would be surprised to see them take a slam as the competition is good, that said so are they. They have tough away fixtures though.

Wales two wins out of four is rather gilted by the golden sheen of a win over the Boks but the standard of the performances in the three tests against the top teams was consistently high. Facing easier opposition tha the top two teams in the rankings and more consistency then Wales will do well. They have good home fixtures which might get them the title.

France and England have played some very good rugby this autumn but lack the consistent performance. If England had played as they did vs Australia in every game, we would be convinced of their prowess. Similarly with France's performance against Australia. The difference between France and England being that England's best game was their last, showing improvement. France started well and got worse.

Scotland and Italy have improved massively since last year and are going to cause upsets, I don't think they have the ability to make top two but either of the two could beat any team on their day.

TJ wrote:Ireland / England fighting for first place, no grand slam.  Not a huge difference between the rest.  

Probable finishing order
Ireland
England
France
Scotland
Wales
Italy

Ireland - most complete "team"
England - most strength in depth, inability to create enough in the backs
France - too inconstant
Scotland - great players in many positions, ability to score tries - inexperience and no strength in depth
Wales - limited game plan, indecision of selection in critical areas, no strength in depth
Italy - getting closer year on year.  Still short of enough class players

Right, ok, so lets put this into perspective, Scotland played Argentina, New Zealand and Tonga. If Wales had those fixtures they would have won them all, yes and I include NewZealand because that side they put out would not have beaten Wales in the MS. So basing your your findings they are going to finish the six nations ahead of Wales, with these "GREAT PLAYERS" in many positions, and beat Wales with their "LIMITED GAME PLAN" that has worked since the last time you beat us in 2007 ? I'll tell you what, I will reserve judgement until next year, because if Wales beat England first up, they will take some stopping. God you have to love the optimism of the Scotts on here.

Yep.

Lord dowlais it's best not to take TJ too seriously - he's a WUM. His description of Scotland is hilariously inaccurate. When will Scotland be declared as dark horses......

This is the likely table in my opinion:

Ireland
England
Wales
France
Scotland
Italy

beshocked wrote:Lord dowlais it's best not to take TJ too seriously - he's a WUM. His description of Scotland is hilariously inaccurate. When will Scotland be declared as dark horses......  

This is the likely table in my opinion:

Ireland
England
Wales
France
Scotland
Italy

I'd go with that beshocked, you could not put a fag paper between Ireland,England and Wales when it comes to the 6N, I am just glad we have those two games at home. Playing at home can make all the difference and is sometimes that little extra that you need to win.

LordDowlais wrote:

beshocked wrote:Lord dowlais it's best not to take TJ too seriously - he's a WUM. His description of Scotland is hilariously inaccurate. When will Scotland be declared as dark horses......  

This is the likely table in my opinion:

Ireland
England
Wales
France
Scotland
Italy

I'd go with that beshocked, you could not put a fag paper between Ireland,England and Wales when it comes to the 6N, I am just glad we have those two games at home. Playing at home can make all the difference and is sometimes that little extra that you need to win.

If you look at the scores of the games I agree with BS.

But performance wise, England got a good score vs NZ and the Boks but they played some pretty awful rugby. Farrell at ten was a very bad decision, Ford a much better one. They were not good against Samoa either. Finally put in a decent performance in the last match.

Wales kept the quality of the performance up more consistently than England. I think that might be the difference going forward. Wales are a year ahead of England in progression and will be the better of the two teams.

I think the 2 big matches will be Wales vs England (wk1) and Ireland vs. France (wk2). To be honest there is so little between Ireland, England, Wales and France now that injuries and momentum will really count.

Can Ireland go into a championship as favourites and win? Its a big ask for any side in this current climate, nobody are stand outs.

Can England win in both Wales and Ireland?

I fancy Scotland to get a scalp somewhere... perhaps Wales and Ireland at home.

In essence whoever is the most injury free out of Ireland and England I would say will win the tournament.

If Wales beat England first up they will take some stopping.

LordDowlais wrote:If Wales beat England first up they will take some stopping.

I would agree with that. They can win in France and they should beat Ireland at home thereafter with big momentum.

Lose and I would fancy Scotland to add to your misery in wk2.

Crazy how one match can determine your position of either 1st or 5th huh. Its the way it is.

Ireland
France
Wales
Scotland
England
Italy

Think Ireland are the form side, have the most experience, the winning habit and the fixtures look good to defend the title but the trip to Cardiff will be key. I think there will be a slam.

Don't think England will win either of their games in Wales and Dublin and the pressure of the rwc could bear heavy on an inexperienced side, who haven't had a great end to 2014.

France will lose to England and probably Ireland - it's between them and Wales for second I think.

Scotland are dark horses for a top 3 finish.

Any of 4 sides could win and the first 2 weekends will be key, whoever gets momentum could do the slam.

On paper there's not much between the sides , but where I think Ireland have the edge is that they are winning the close games, whereas some of the other teams aren't and in a tight tournament that could be key.

maestegmafia yes England played awful rugby which means there is more room for improvement.

Most of us if not all knew that picking Farrell Jr was a big mistake - that was a significant factor in losing to both SA and NZ.

Of the Wales games I watched - Aus and NZ - you are right - Wales were consistent but mentally vs the Aussies they faltered (not for the first time) and against NZ - they faltered mentally and physically - when it came to the business end.

England competed for 80 minutes. Wales didn't.

I didn't see the Wales vs SA - were Wales that good?

rodders England 5th? Really? That's a laughably poor prediction.

Not even sure how you get to that conclusion when you say France will lose to England - you genuinely think Scotland or Italy will win at Twickenham!?

Scotland haven't beaten England at Twickenham since 83 (31 years) and Italy have never beaten England.

maestegmafia wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

beshocked wrote:Lord dowlais it's best not to take TJ too seriously - he's a WUM. His description of Scotland is hilariously inaccurate. When will Scotland be declared as dark horses......  

This is the likely table in my opinion:

Ireland
England
Wales
France
Scotland
Italy

I'd go with that beshocked, you could not put a fag paper between Ireland,England and Wales when it comes to the 6N, I am just glad we have those two games at home. Playing at home can make all the difference and is sometimes that little extra that you need to win.

If you look at the scores of the games I agree with BS.

But performance wise, England got a good score vs NZ and the Boks but they played some pretty awful rugby. Farrell at ten was a very bad decision, Ford a much better one.  They were not good against Samoa either. Finally put in a decent performance in the last match.

Wales kept the quality of the performance up more consistently than England. I think that might be the difference going forward. Wales are a year ahead of England in progression and will be the better of the two teams.

considering englands performances were pretty poor they were very close to winning both against NZ and SA. Imagine what will happen with a good performance?

nathan wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

beshocked wrote:Lord dowlais it's best not to take TJ too seriously - he's a WUM. His description of Scotland is hilariously inaccurate. When will Scotland be declared as dark horses......  

This is the likely table in my opinion:

Ireland
England
Wales
France
Scotland
Italy

I'd go with that beshocked, you could not put a fag paper between Ireland,England and Wales when it comes to the 6N, I am just glad we have those two games at home. Playing at home can make all the difference and is sometimes that little extra that you need to win.

If you look at the scores of the games I agree with BS.

But performance wise, England got a good score vs NZ and the Boks but they played some pretty awful rugby. Farrell at ten was a very bad decision, Ford a much better one.  They were not good against Samoa either. Finally put in a decent performance in the last match.

Wales kept the quality of the performance up more consistently than England. I think that might be the difference going forward. Wales are a year ahead of England in progression and will be the better of the two teams.

considering englands performances were pretty poor they were very close to winning both against NZ and SA. Imagine what will happen with a good performance?

Hype hype hype. Vs Samoa, had we run a hatful of tries in it would have been because of the disruption in the Samoa camp prior to the match and the same problems they always have. We dont and its because we are playing poorly.

Vs Australia its all why cant we run in tries from everywhere like Australia does. Well who else can do that as reliably as they can? We beat them the same way we always do and there is nothing wrong with that.

On the minus side its possible that the form showed by Care and Brown in particular was a blip last year, when they played out of their skins, and we are back to normal this year. I don't know.

We played NZ 4 times on the trot, at times very well, at times less so but only got properly stuffed once (And I take that as a complement in some ways, as we got the AB's to really turn in a top performance). We were poor compared to where we should have been vs SA but were still close on the scoreboard. It isnt enough, but its better than nothing.

Based on the results, it's hard to look past Ireland retaining their 6Ns title, however as has been the case for the past several years, the difference between the sides capabilities is sufficiently small that (pretty much) any team can beat another with a good performance.

First up match with England going to Cardiff will be interesting, as it will give the winners good confidence and momentum for the rest of the tournament. Could be the difference between 2nd and 4th or 5th in the table.

Of course there are a few issues for England to sort out:
1 - Best halfback combination based on form and fitness. Last 6Ns it looked like Care and Farrell had this nailed down, but after a poor summer and autumn Ford is definitely favourite for the 10 shirt, although I would like to see him play with Care, whose higher tempo from the breakdown should give him more time and space.

2 - Centres. Hopefully Manu will be fit (I reckon he has only started at centre once in England's last 15 matches, plus once on the wing and one sub appearance), and we can see who works best at 12 with him there. My feeling is we should go with Eastwood if we are wanting to be an attacking side, or Barritt if we are primarily defensive.

3 - Ball carrying in the forwards, especially the back row: While Robshaw and Wood have great workrate, neither are top class ball carriers (and Haskell hasn't taken his opportunity in this regard), so a lot of the responsibility falls of Morgan or Billy V to punch the holes in the defence from first and second phase. Having Cole, Corbs and Launchbury back may ease some of the burden, but is it worth giving Ewers a shot at 6? Surely there isn't enough time for Burgess to be ready, especially if he is going to stay at 12 for a few more weeks as he gets more familiar with RU - for me he has all the attributes we need, but simply not enough RU nous or enough toime to acquire it.

beshocked wrote:
rodders England 5th? Really? That's a laughably poor prediction.

Not even sure how you get to that conclusion when you say France will lose to England - you genuinely think Scotland or Italy will win at Twickenham!?

Scotland haven't beaten England at Twickenham since 83 (31 years) and Italy have never beaten England.

I think England could lose 2-3 games and Scotland could pick up 2-3 wins so it will be close for 3 -5th. Yes 5th is too low - England 4th probably.

Great to hear Scotland are dark horses again - so why the long face?

Wales did well to stay with NZ for 70 minutes - but from that moment on they were well beaten. I was there, and I was initially surprised how readily they folded. But having spent the 1st 70 playing like demons, they were spent. And not beating Aus is a definite black mark - everyone else can do it.

Ireland were consistently good - but tbh no more than that. They'll be favourites but I doubt they're good enough for a GS.

England have a very good 1st team - shame it so rarely plays   A top 2 finish is a shoo-in for me.

France will beat the eventual competition winners but lose most of the rest.

Ire (no GS)
Eng
Wal
Fra
Sco
Ita

We have won championships before without beating the SH sides and we have the 2 favourites (by all accounts) at home so who knows what will happen

Some hedging of my bets coming up in my table prediction, but I think the clear favourite is Ireland.  Had a cracking AIs and whilst that doesn’t necessarily mean a lot, it has demonstrated their abilities.  They have a very good coach and some exceptional players.  Theirs to lose in my opinion.

Ireland
England/Wales – Will be close
France/Scotland – We’ve improved, and France are France.  They could be phenomenal or they might not be, plus a couple of injuries in key positions and we’re knackered
Italy

So massive fence sitting going on from me.