Pro 12 or ECC to have a female referee?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/30398575

Its what is suggested in this article, although she isn't quite at that level yet. I hope she has really thick skin if it does happen, given the dogs abuse Pro 12 refs get on here

Good for her. Hope she makes it to the 2019 World Cup semi-final between Italy and Japan. She'll obviously be disqualified from doing the final due to potential of bias......

If she comes to the pro 12, I'll guarantee she'll referee a lot of Dragons games as we always seem to get the developing refs (particularly Italians)

All the best to her though.

Refs get dogs abuse on here, but the ref still gets respect on the field. We can do with more good referees in the game and hopefully she develops into another one. TBH can't see a reason why it would be an issue. She has clearly shown to be a strong performer and should be rewarded with a step up in fixtures.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/news/10821422/Claire-Hodnett-to-set-precedent-by-becoming-first-woman-official-on-national-panel-of-referees.html

Reffing the league just below pro.

Edit: I just hope they get treated the same as anyone else (i.e. Loads of biased cowpat )

Well we all know how the Lady interviewers get treated here.... so I'd reckon it'll be more of the same if she becomes a more mainstream face in the years ahead......

HammerofThunor wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/news/10821422/Claire-Hodnett-to-set-precedent-by-becoming-first-woman-official-on-national-panel-of-referees.html

Reffing the league just below pro.

Edit: I just hope they get treated the same as anyone else (i.e. Loads of biased cowpat )

Hmmm. So is it better or worse if;

Treat the female referee with respect because she is a female
Treat the referee (who happens to be female) with respect because the referee should be treated with more.

I don't think referees should be victim to some of the bile that does get said about them, but I wouldn't want to see a female referee treated to the same bile due to equality. Male referees should be treated to less bile to bring their respect levels up to equality.

Oh, Hammer, my comments are on the general thread, I ain't jumpin' on your humour.

thebandwagonsociety wrote:Refs get dogs abuse on here, but the ref still gets respect on the field.  We can do with more good referees in the game and hopefully she develops into another one. TBH can't see a reason why it would be an issue. She has clearly shown to be a strong performer and should be rewarded with a step up in fixtures.

To be honest, whilst there will obviously be poor jokes made (same as there are about Nigel Owens for instance), however I have no doubt that if/when she is up to grade, she will get no less respect than any other ref on the pitch. And if there were any issues of lack of respect in the stands, it would be dealt with swiftly too.

thebandwagonsociety wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/news/10821422/Claire-Hodnett-to-set-precedent-by-becoming-first-woman-official-on-national-panel-of-referees.html

Reffing the league just below pro.

Edit: I just hope they get treated the same as anyone else (i.e. Loads of biased cowpat )

Hmmm.  So is it better or worse if;

Treat the female referee with respect because she is a female
Treat the referee (who happens to be female) with respect because the referee should be treated with more.

I don't think referees should be victim to some of the bile that does get said about them, but I wouldn't want to see a female referee treated to the same bile due to equality. Male referees should be treated to less bile to bring their respect levels up to equality.

They should be treated with respect because they're refs. They shouldn't be given 'more' respect or different respect because they're women.

Depends what the required 'respect' is. Is booing a ref's decision ok? What if they missed blatent foul play? If that's ok for men, it's ok for women. If it's not for men, it's not for women. If it took a woman possibly becoming a ref to make you realise you were disrespectful (you being a general 'you' not specific) then you need a good look at yourself.

I have seen a sexist attitude towards females involved in rugby on these boards, I have no doubt that first time O'Reilly refs a televised match we will see the same about her.

I'll bet her competence level is 100 times higher than Clancy, even at this stage of her career.

Hopefully she'll do well and the players respect her decisions like any other ref.

HammerofThunor wrote:
Depends what the required 'respect' is. Is booing a ref's decision ok? What if they missed blatent foul play? If that's ok for men, it's ok for women. If it's not for men, it's not for women.  If it took a woman possibly becoming a ref to make you realise you were disrespectful (you being a general 'you' not specific) then you need a good look at yourself.

I get ya Hammer. If a man is a B***ox, then a woman is a Castro. Fair is fair. You're right. No sexism allowed here folks!

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:I'll bet her competence level is 100 times higher than Clancy, even at this stage of her career.

Clancy is pernickety - not incompetent.  Teams don't like him because he knows the rule book TOO well, not because he doesn't know it.  Teams don't like him because he sleeps with the Rule book and therefore the illicit affair is bringing the game into disrepute, as Beale keeps saying.

I think its more to do with the fact he is too whistle happy, I don't think his knowledge of the laws is significantly better than other refs, they just don't blow up on every little infringement they see.

That game where Wales beat Scotland...I think in 2013, was dreadful because of the penalty count, there was no flow to the game at all.

IronMike wrote:I think its more to do with the fact he is too whistle happy, I don't think his knowledge of the laws is significantly better than other refs, they just don't blow up on every little infringement they see.

Never said he knows more than other coaches but yes, I did say teams don't like him because he's pernickety about that knowledge. He ain't a buffoon winging it - he's overly precise in his letter of the law style of reffing.

Always a tight line to walk if a referee has to 'allow' a certain amount of infringements in order to let the game flow. If the players didn't infringe then the game will flow very well. I know I'm quick to blame a high penalty count on a referee, but sometimes I do admit afterwards that the players committing the fouls was the real problem. If a game was played as cleanly as Clancy calls it and the players didn't commit that level of infringements, it might be scary how open and high scoring that game could be.

thebandwagonsociety wrote:Always a tight line to walk if a referee has to 'allow' a certain amount of infringements in order to let the game flow.  If the players didn't infringe then the game will flow very well.  I know I'm quick to blame a high penalty count on a referee, but sometimes I do admit afterwards that the players committing the fouls was the real problem.  If a game was played as cleanly as Clancy calls it and the players didn't commit that level of infringements, it might be scary how open and high scoring that game could be.

Exactly. "Oh let us f**king cheat a little, ya runt!" seems to be the constant cry directed Clancy's way. But he's a Headmastery type - and the more dissent, the more prickly about enforcement he gets

SecretFly wrote:

thebandwagonsociety wrote:Always a tight line to walk if a referee has to 'allow' a certain amount of infringements in order to let the game flow.  If the players didn't infringe then the game will flow very well.  I know I'm quick to blame a high penalty count on a referee, but sometimes I do admit afterwards that the players committing the fouls was the real problem.  If a game was played as cleanly as Clancy calls it and the players didn't commit that level of infringements, it might be scary how open and high scoring that game could be.

Exactly.  "Oh let us f**king cheat a little, ya runt!" seems to be the constant cry directed Clancy's way.  But he's a Headmastery type - and the more dissent, the more prickly about enforcement he gets

Refs are generally trained to think about materiality - in any given situation in rugby there will generally be several players doing something you could ping. So you're taught to think in terms of impact and sequence - is this situation dangerous? is one team actually getting an unfair advantage or is the infringement purely technical? what was the first offence?

Then your choice is about how to respond to it. Early in the game and an offence that the player can easily stop doing? It might be a good idea to blow up to make the point that you won't tolerate it - but thereafter you have to be consistent. Something where the impact is marginal and it might have been accidental? Allow play to continue, and maybe tell the player "I saw that, but I gave you the benefit of the doubt this time..."

That's what Nigel Owens has always been excellent at doing - but for the last 18 months I think his technical decision-making has slipped enough that his game management doesn't really compensate for it. Clancy is at the other end of the scale - generally accurate but could give more room for teams to sort it out for themselves.

Walsh and Barnes I think are more prone than most to a kind of confirmatory bias - they decide what they are looking for quite early in a game, especially at the scrum and breakdown and then are very good at spotting it but sometimes to the exclusion of looking at the bigger picture and checking to see whether the root cause is something the other side is doing. As a result, they can hand one or other team an advantage.

Joubert hits a good balance, as does JP Doyle. I haven't seen much of Jaco Peyper or Glen Jackson, so can't judge. I know it's a personal preference but I think Poite and Garces generally do the best job - they are accurate on the technical points that make a difference but are willing to allow a messy scrum or breakdown if it's not dangerous and no unfair advantage is accruing, and they generally expect the team in possession to use the ball rather than milk penalties.

Blydi great, the last thing we need ...................











... another feicin Oirish ref

PenfroPete wrote:Blydi great, the last thing we need ...................











... another feicin Oirish ref

To be fair, I think there are quite a few in the IRFU ref group

Very good Hammer I was alluding to (isn't that fashionable term these days ) the possibility that she would be in the Pro 12

PenfroPete wrote: Very good Hammer    I was alluding to (isn't that fashionable term these days   ) the possibility that she would be in the Pro 12

Pro12??? Them eejits??? She'll be ruined as a ref. Sure they can't even play Tag nevermind the real stuff.

SecretFly wrote:Good for her.  Hope she makes it to the 2019 World Cup semi-final between Italy and Japan.  She'll obviously be disqualified from doing the final due to potential of bias......

Fly, has she got English roots or partner or something else to tie her to the English?

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Good for her.  Hope she makes it to the 2019 World Cup semi-final between Italy and Japan.  She'll obviously be disqualified from doing the final due to potential of bias......

Fly, has she got English roots or partner or something else to tie her to the English?

No, Past it, you were with us in the other semi unfortunately and a Welsh ref red carded Robshaw in the 10th minute. But don't worry, there's always 2023....................

But that "tackle"put BoD out of the game after he came back, just for the RWC and was running riot (a case of deja vu); we all know BoD is irreplaceable so the Irish heads went down and England sneaked a close win, before crushing the ABs in the final.

Robshaw went on to become detested by the world for injuring everybody's favourite non-national player, but he got a RWC winners medal and retired immediately from international rugby.

Well damn it............. that's me in a cardboard box all through the winter of 2019 then because I've already spent big on the outcome.

Robshaw.....the smarmy git!

She couldn't ref Leinster games.
They're all just too pretty in Dublin for her to concentrate (etc).

SecretFly wrote:Well damn it.............  that's me in a cardboard box all through the winter of 2019 then because I've already spent big on the outcome.  

Robshaw.....the smarmy git!

Some people are born with luck, have you seen his girlfriend? She can sing a bit as well.

George Carlin wrote:She couldn't ref Leinster games.
They're all just too pretty in Dublin for her to concentrate (etc).

True, true.....................

SecretFly wrote:Well we all know how the Lady interviewers get treated here.... so I'd reckon it'll be more of the same if she becomes a more mainstream face in the years ahead......

Yeah personally I dont get all the fuss when it comes to Sonia McLaughlin etc. She is interviewing players, big deal.

I hope this woman turns out to be good and she is judged and appraised by the same standards as the men.

LondonTiger wrote:I have seen a sexist attitude towards females involved in rugby on these boards, I have no doubt that first time O'Reilly refs a televised match we will see the same about her.

Or when she gets criticised for being poor like most other refs, the critics will be accused of sexism, etc...

Women shouldn't really have any involvement in men's rugby IMO (unless its cheerleading). Sonja's input is bad enough.

Why not? Its just a job.

I've been reffed by a couple of female refs previously. One was a bit picky and the game devolved quickly. The other was more down to earth and used some excellent put downs to keep control of a feisty derby game. When the female ref tells the two scrapping players to stop being pansies and get on with he game it has a remarkable effect.

A good ref will use the fact she's female to her advantage.