The end of MS Dhoni

well he is gone...for good. Miracles do happen.
He was pushed off the cliff...evident that it happened mid-series.
His legacy would have been weightier had he "jumped" on his own perhaps before the start of this series or the one before that in Eng.

He like his brother( in character) Cook perhaps over estimated the loyalty of his Mai-baap's ( god fathers) protection.

Bottom-lines are all that matter in professional sport like in corporate world.
Godfather, goodwill, good relations with bosses / management only gets you a long or sometimes very long rope as in case of Dhoni and Cook....its's not infinite.
There is a strong "CSK Propoganda Machine" though that Kohli will have to content with, that will dissect him every inning and remind all of the "glorious days under Dhoni"
Nevertheless Kohli will get a reasonable run, will have to learn fast and I believe will fare much better.

As far as Dhoni's legacy goes....we will have to wait until the end of world cup where if he does well, all his ills in tests will be largely overridden.

If he fails in this world cup.....his legacy will be a tarnished one and test match failures will stand exaggerated.

Either way the world cup will mark the end of his ODI career also.

and in any-case we should not forget he was one of the best WK India has had....not spectacular but very safe.

India's finest ever wicketkeeper batsman retires from test cricket.
Mahendra Singh Dhoni, you will be missed as a wicketkeeper batsman for years to come.
MSD has been handling too much workload for many years now, as captain and wicketkeeper in all formats. Not many, in fact none, wicketkeepers have lasted in both jobs as long as Dhoni has managed.
Yes his captaincy has had a fair share of critics, it was a bit too defensive at times in test cricket, but it was under Dhoni that India reached the top of the test rankings, it was under his leadership that India won a test series in New Zealand after ages, it was under his leadership that India registered their first ever home whitewash of a 4+ test series.

Dhoni had gone on record that he would review continuing in all formats at the end of 2013, though he decided to continue at that point, retirement from one format at least was not too far away. Was hoping he would continue as senior player in the test side, and would give up catpaincy in all formats after the World Cup. There is Saha, there is Naman Ojha. Then there are the Karthiks and Parthivs of the world who where kept out by India's best ever. Sanju Samson, Smit Patel and Ankush Banes are from the next generation. But for any one of them, it will be a massive, massive ask to replace Mahendra Singh Dhoni in the test team. And forget ODI cricket, he's best ever for India as a test wicketkeeper batsman, but he's the best ever in the world in ODI cricket as a wicketkeeper batsman, and he's among the best ever ODI batsmen in the world.

And lets not forget, under MS, India won 27 of the 60 games he led in, and that is more than what even Dada Sourav has managed......

Sourav Ganguly lost his captaincy in the backdrop of India's home loss to Australia, spat with the coach and all that. But people now remember him for all the right reasons. Think India's most successful test captain who has led them to 2 world titles as well, will also be remembered well in the future after the dust settles.......
KPF, what about a relook at the title of the post?

lets not forget the horrible 4-0 in Eng, 4-0 in Aus, letting SA almost chase down 475, letting McCullum come back from dead to score triple century and pull a draw from the jaws of defeat, and the 3 test losses in a row in Eng all under 4 and 3 days.....and the losses in Aus now.....where every Indian fan intuitively knew "he will blow it up" from the "winningest" of positions.

He will also be remembered for turning "favouritism" in selections from a subtle phnenomenon to blatant day-light robbery.

The" CSK Propaganda Machine "will try their best to preserve his brand image as he is perceived to have 2 to 3 more seasons to give to CSK ( that is if CsK survives.
But mark my words it's deeds not marketing and PR that preserves the legacy.
The world-cup his is last shot at leaving positive footprints in the sands of time.

So guys... Jumped or pushed?

kingraf wrote:So guys... Jumped or pushed?

Ha Ha ....you tell me.
why would he jump....with One more test to go in the series .
he was so horribly inept that even the very meek selectors could not bear him and got the approval for the boss Srini to push him out and do the right thing finally.

and in the unlikely event "he jumped on own accord".....what a selfish thing to desert a sinking series even before the series ended

Outstanding captain who led India to World Cup victory as well as number 1 in Tests, fantastic wicket player batsman, but for the last few years has not got the results.

KP_fan wrote:

Either way the world cup will mark the end of his ODI career also.

and in any-case we should not forget he was one of the best WK India has had....not spectacular but very safe.

A lots of corrections needed in your article, so let me point out a few

1]The world cup should not and will not mark the end of his career, he is one of the most celebrated one day player ever, so why should the World cup decide his fate? unless and until the IPL controvery strike him, he will play easily for 2 or more years.

2]He is not just the best wicket keeper India had, he is the best ever Wicket keeper skipper batsman India had, if you compare his stats with Gilly, Dhoni's stats are even better and Dhoni won more matches than Gilly did with bat as well as with his gloves and not to forget he dawned additional responsibilities as skipper and won a ODI world cup, t2o World cup, champions trophy [mini world cup] outside winning 2 champions league T20 for his IPL team plus No.1 test team status.

.Dhoni will be remembered as the greatest One day keeper batsman ever
.Dhoni will be remembered as the greatest T20 keeper batsman and skipper
.Dhoni will be remembered as a the most successful Indian skipper ever.
.Dhoni will be remembered as one of the most successful and celebrated skipper among the world top 3 in limited overs format [could easily even be the no.1 but a bit subjective]
.Dhoni will be remembered as one of the best finishers the game has ever seen [along with M Beven , Lance Klusener and few others]
......

Dhoni will be remembered as Captain Cool and Charistmatic.

KP_fan wrote:lets not forget the horrible 4-0 in Eng, 4-0 in Aus, letting SA almost chase down 475, letting McCullum come back from dead to score triple century and pull a draw from the jaws of defeat, and the 3 test losses in a row in Eng all under 4 and 3 days.....and the losses in Aus now.....where every Indian fan intuitively knew "he will blow it up" from the "winningest" of positions.

He will also be remembered for turning "favouritism" in selections from a subtle phnenomenon to blatant day-light robbery.

The" CSK Propaganda Machine "will try their best to preserve his brand image as he is perceived to have 2 to 3 more seasons to give to CSK ( that is if CsK survives.
But mark my words it's deeds not marketing and PR that preserves the legacy.
The world-cup his is last shot at leaving positive footprints in the sands of time.

It seems you dislike MSD for sure.

@ KingRaf question on "jumped or pushed"

I guess partly both, IPL controversy should have taken his toll, he is not a great celebrated test player like he is on one day format, so he himself would have like to relinquish it, but at this point of time he might have been forced to quit as well.

So for its a push for sure [ however he could have easily resisted the push till the world cup] but its him who decided to jump in the end.

direct wrote:It seems you dislike MSD for sure

.
its blasphemy to criticize based on facts.
we must only talk positive of the indian captain....because he has retired
CSK Propaganda Machine is at work

KP_fan wrote:

direct wrote:It seems you dislike MSD for sure

.
its blasphemy to criticize based on facts.
we must only talk positive of the indian captain....because he has retired
CSK Propaganda Machine is at work

He has just retired from test cricket not from international cricket, you can talk both positive and negative if there are any, if you want to talk only negatives, then add a spoiler alert at the bottom of the thread that "this is just a negative thread coz I hate/dislike the player".

Nothing wrong in criticizing a player based on facts, but criticizing a player hiding facts is wum caliber.

DirectView2 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

direct wrote:It seems you dislike MSD for sure

.
its blasphemy to criticize based on facts.
we must only talk positive of the indian captain....because he has retired
CSK Propaganda Machine is at work

He has just retired from test cricket not from international cricket, you can talk both positive and negative if there are any, if you want to talk only negatives, then add a spoiler alert at the bottom of the thread that "this is just a negative thread coz I hate/dislike the player".

Nothing wrong in criticizing a player based on facts, but criticizing a player hiding facts is wum caliber.

he was one half of the axis of evil ( the other being Srini) who sucked the life and blood out of test cricket in India.
This is a fact.....but I am not allowed to state fact because you don't like it.

Its said not to speak critically of the dead.....he has only retired as you know and hence not above criticism.

He captained his team to the number one ranking in tests, won the T20 world cup, the ICC World Cup and the ICC Champions Trophy.

Known as one of the best finishers in limited over cricket, has a test batting average of 38 and an ODI average of close to 53 at a 90 strike rate.

Great ambassador for Indian cricket

If India became number 1 ranking side under Dhoni's leadership, its because of Kirsten and the seniors, if they won the world cup its because of Yuvraj, if they won the world t 20 its because others didn't take the tournament seriously. Now if we lose away series with the same seniors its because of Dhoni, if we don't find bowlers of class after Zaheer and Kumble its because of Dhoni, if Rohit Sharma who never played for CSK gets picked in the side time and again its because of Dhoni's CSK favoritism. When Ravindra Jadeja who also plays for CSK gets selected it was nothing but favoritism, but when he picked up 24 wickets for next to nothing to be a main player in the 4-0 whitewashing of Australia then the only thing that was sure was that Dhoni had no credit to claim. Under Sourav Ganguly's captaincy, haven't we lost to Zimbabwe in a test match? Haven't we let slip winning positions in the West Indies and Australia to lose test matches? Did the likes of Murali Kartik ever get a proper run in the side? Haven't we lost a home series to Australia? Didn't we become the laughingstock of the world when the coach-captain rift had become front page news?
Despite all that, Ganguly remains one of the best captains to have led India in the history of the game in the country. What Ganguly had started, matured through Anil Kumble and Rahul Dravid, and completed under Dhoni. Dhoni was what India needed to carry on at that point. His captaincy has its limitations particularly in the longer formats, but despite recent losses, admittedly sustained and massive, his contributions can't be brushed aside just like that, and when will we have a wicketkeeper batsman of his quality in tests? Let alone ODIs where he's a great of the game........

Biltong wrote:He captained his team to the number one ranking in tests, won the T20 world cup, the ICC World Cup and the ICC Champions Trophy.

Known as one of the best finishers in limited over cricket, has a test batting average of 38 and an ODI average of close to 53 at a 90 strike rate.

Great ambassador for Indian cricket

That is much closer to my view than KP_fan's opinion !

Dhoni may not have been a perfect captain but there was plenty to admire. Did rather suspect KP_f would be dancing a jig though

and for those contemplating whether he jumped or was pushed...here are reports emerging that suggest he was atleast in the "fired" category if not "kicked out"

BCCI doesn't even want the shadow of Dhoni on the dressing room and are sending him back before the start of Sydney test.

and shastri is backing Kohli's aggression as the leadership material.
Daddy Fltecher's days are numbered too.......he may not even be there for the world cup

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/cricketnext/bcci-contemplate-sending-ms-dhoni-home-before-4th-test/520695-78.html

BCCI likely to send Dhoni back before the start of Sydney test

http://zeenews.india.com/sports/cricket/india-vs-australia-2014/ravi-shastri-virat-kohli-proximity-behind-ms-dhonis-abrupt-test-retirement_1522996.html

and shastri it seems had a role in Dhoni being fired

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/top-stories/Dhoni-missing-from-Indian-teams-photos-with-Australian-PM/articleshow/45714326.cms

and here Indian team with the Australian PM in an afternoon tea and photo.....Dhoni not included

It's great to see Virat Kohli smiling. I hope the boys enjoyed the fireworks last night.

Farewell MS.. very good batsman, average keeper, but certainly one of India's finest keeper-batsmen, and on his day a very good captain

So pushed into jumping I gather. Its shameful that one of India's greatest ever cricketers got pushed into an early retirement by Ravi Shastri of all people. An all format retirement after the World Cup isn't beyond the realm of possibilities. Looking back all the calls of "fighting game fire with fire" from Kohli were subliminal shots fired, given Dhoni's rather laidback nature.

Can't have been an easy last two years for Dhoni, heavy defeats, Supreme Court cases, Shastri of all people.

Mike Hussey is being talked about as the next coach

One of the very worthy reads on Mahendra Singh Dhoni.......
http://www.espncricinfo.com/india/content/current/story/815377.html

Whilst I don't quite share KP_fan's views on MSD, I do think he overstayed his welcome as a captain (although I think he is still the best keeper batsman in the country and could've still offered something as a player but I guess its difficult for someone who has captained the team for 6 years to suddenly start playing under someone else particularly at his age). Its not just the fact that he doesn't have the bowlers (which we all agree he clearly doesn't) but he has just looked listless and disinterested on the field for the last 3 years (as a captain, that is. As a batsman, he has still fought hard despite his technique but his captaincy has looked completely clueless and disinterested). As a captain, he has just looking like a man going through the motions and quite happy to let things take their own course instead of trying to force the issue. And.thats not just true overseas but even against.England at home when he had a supposedly decent bowling attack in home conditions. Against batsmen who didn't give in easily against spin, MSD didn't seem to have any Plan B. Its no coincidence that India's only successes in recent times have come against Australia and West Indies at home, sides who surrendered rather meekly against our spinners. Even against Australia, there were times when the tail hung in and we didn't have any answers for Mitchell Starc at Mohali or Peter Siddle at Delhi. But the overall quality of Australian team in those conditions was so poor that it didn't matter in the larger scheme of things. I understand its difficult for MSD to be too aggressive with his bowling attack overseas but I do feel he ought to have been a little more proactive, particularly in the last year or so with an inexperienced side at his disposal especially as unlike in 2011, we have actually been in quite a few situations where that extra punch could' ve won us a few more tests, none more so than Wellington where we let an opposition in dire straits at 94/5, still needing more than 150 to avert an inns defeat score a mammoth 680 with the triple centurion McCullum scoring a lot of runs through the vacant slip areas. Having a plan is well and good but a captain needs to know when to put a stop to it if its not working and go and put an arm around his young bowler's shoulders and tell them to go back to the basics. Instead, the likes of Kohli have been far more active on the field and constantly interacting with the bowlers whereas the captain was his usual laid back self. In a way, what was his biggest strength early on his captaincy career became his biggest weakness when the team started struggling. I think for the last 2 or 3 years, he had almost resigned to the fact that India can't win overseas and was just going through the motions, which is why I think he overstayed his welcome and ought to have quit much earlier. The team was just stagnating under his passive captaincy.

Anyways, thanks for all the good memories, MS and hopefully, this will help extend your career in a format in which you are one of the greatest ever.

Fair enough, Shanky.......
Not sure though that Kohli was up to taking over in tests a year ago, and so MSD really had to stay on. He in fact had hinted that he would review playing in all formats at the end of 2013, but stayed on for a year more. He was stubborn as a test captain, and passive too at times, but I would put far more blame on our bowling unit than is usually done.......

I'm not sure Kohli is any more 'ready' now than he was last year except that he is now in form but that return to form was, in a way, triggered by the leadership role at Adelaide, which came after having endured his worst test series. So maybe, just maybe we might have seen the best of Virat Kohli as a Test batsman even earlier with the additional responsibilities?

Kohli had a breakthrough in Australia earlier, but it was in the SA series that he took his game to the next level. Don't think he could have been made skipper before that tour anyways. Even now, he has to really learn to 'pick his battles', as cricinfo's Sharda Ugra wrote a couple of days ago.

msp83 wrote:Kohli had a breakthrough in Australia earlier, but it was in the SA series that he took his game to the next level. Don't think he could have been made skipper before that tour anyways. Even now, he has to really learn to 'pick his battles', as cricinfo's Sharda Ugra wrote a couple of days ago.

CSK Propaganda machine....driling in our head....there are no alternatives

after he lost to eng at home ( having lost to aus and eng 4-0 each).....dhoni should have been removed.......no matter who they made captain........even a stone as captain would not have fared worse

I have a lot of respect for MSD as a cricketer and captain. I think Shanky has it about right - he did a lot of good for India, gave them a WC and a T20WC, and took them to no 1 in the test rankings, he can't be all bad!

Undoubtedly one of the best ever one-day finishers (probably THE best if you ask me) as well. His keeping was OK to good overall, very good to the spinners, but never quite safe against the seamers. I would still have Gilchrist above him as a keeper-batsman in ODI cricket, but Dhoni would be number 2.

I think it's clear that playing in all formats all over the world (+ the IPL etc) has taken its toll, as probably have events off the cricket field. Certainly the last year and a bit he has looked more and more jaded, and according to reports isn't working as hard as he used to. All this has culminated and personally I thought his captaincy in the test at Melbourne was some of the worst I've ever seen.

That shouldn't detract from all his previous achievements though. He will go down in history as an Indian great, and a world great in ODI cricket no doubt.