Mayweather vs Pacquiao Has A Chance Of Being Made May/June

by hazharrison Mon 12 Jan - 10:38

It looks as though Floyd has finally run out of options and is in serious negotiations with Pacquiao for the pair to fight in May/June (should he take the May 2 date, Canelo vs Cotto will be rescheduled).

Pacquiao is reported to have acquiesced to Floyd's demands over drug testing and the purse split and so it would appear that the ball is in now firmly in Mayweather’s court.

Few questions:

Does It Still Matter?

5 or 6 years past its sell-by-date, does a fight between Floyd and Pacquiao still matter (aside from the money it will generate)?

Lewis-Tyson was trumpeted as a “defining fight”, however, a decade down the line, it’s generally accepted that Tyson was a shell and the result didn’t actually separate who was the better fighter overall.

Will The Winner Be Ranked The Greater Fighter?

Following on from that: will the winner be rated above the loser historically? Pacquiao arguably holds the edge right now, however, there’s nothing between the pair (generally rated inside the top 50 all-time).

Does the manner of the win matter (should one of them knock the other out, for exampe)?

Can It Still Be A Good Fight?

Hearns and Leonard (in their rematch) and Ali and Frazier (in their rubber match) proved that fighters who were no longer great could still produce a great fight. Will this produce fireworks or a damp squib – like the bouts between Leonard-Duran (third fight) and Lewis-Tyson.

by TopHat24/7 Mon 12 Jan - 10:51

I don't think anyone that knew what they were talking about considered Lewis-Tyson anything other than a circus show, not remotely 'defining'.

As Truss would say, this is still p4p#1 vs p4pTop5 so SHOULD be massive still, it's just that in comparison to 08-11 it is vastly less interesting/meaingful.

Both are ranked as greats already. Manny already has losses on his record and is widely regarded to have slipped more, so I don't think a loss will affect his standing much. If Floyd loses he'll still go down a great but it'll massively affect his standing as his aura will have been shattered.

by Derbymanc Mon 12 Jan - 10:55

It'll still be massive to some people but the result will be argued about constantly as neither is at their best now and it's happening far far too late.

I think people have already made up their minds on where both rank on an ATG list, the result won't change most peoples view as it's past it's sell by date.

Yes it could still be a great fight.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 12 Jan - 11:17

You don't think any fight matters these days haz.

Two of the top 4 best fighters of today fighting each other..

How many Louis or Hagler fights mattered..

please answer .

by Rodney Mon 12 Jan - 11:26

Does It Still Matter?
It still has huge significance but slight less significance of 5 years ago. We will all be talking about it leading up to it and tuning in regardless what anyone says.

Will The Winner Be Ranked The Greater Fighter?
Probably yes. Mayweather has the flawless record, Pacquaio holds the greater resume. Its hard to split them in terms of legacy, a win for either they'll be rated better.

Can It Still Be A Good Fight?
I really don't know, has Mayweather ever been in a good fight ? I think it will be very close/cautious even and those expecting a cakewalk for Mayweather maybe surprised. I hope it happens and if it doesn't (Mayweather especially) I'd like to see leave the sport, growing tired of all the cr@p generated in picking opponents on PPV figures etc..

Cheers, Rodders

by hazharrison Mon 12 Jan - 11:26

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You don't think any fight matters these days haz.

Two of the top 4 best fighters of today fighting each other..

How many Louis or Hagler fights mattered..

please answer .

Well, that's what I'm asking. Does it matter and if so, how important is the result?

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 12 Jan - 11:42

You're just going to p**s on this fight..........Like Strongy and the rest of the rose tinters....

Strongy - "Mayweather isn't top 10 because he's never beat anybody.......Louis is my number 6"

The two best fighters of the last 20 years fighting.........Would have been better five years before for sure..........But so would have Hagler v Leonard..

Let's be honest Hagler lifts Leonard a few places up the list...........Right ??

In my Top 5 anyway........

Unlike Hagler v Leonard we have two of the current best four fighters in the game participating in a close matchup...........

Obviously more legacy enhancing foer Manny should he win because we have posters poo pooing the Alvarez win and writing stupid articles about a "37 year old Mayweather not being great despite winning a fight" !!...I forgot who wrote that ??

You're not objective Haz !!...............DON'T PRETEND TO BE.........

But I'll watch this ......you watch GGG vs Murray...........

by hazharrison Mon 12 Jan - 11:51

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You're just going to p**s on this fight..........Like Strongy and the rest of the rose tinters....

Strongy - "Mayweather isn't top 10 because he's never beat anybody.......Louis is my number 6"

The two best fighters of the last 20 years fighting.........Would have been better five years before for sure..........But so would have Hagler v Leonard..

Let's be honest Hagler lifts Leonard a few places up the list...........Right ??

In my Top 5 anyway........

Unlike Hagler v Leonard we have two of the current best four fighters in the game participating in a close matchup...........

Obviously more legacy enhancing foer Manny should he win because we have posters poo pooing the Alvarez win and writing stupid articles about a "37 year old Mayweather not being great despite winning a fight" !!...I forgot who wrote that ??

You're not objective Haz !!...............DON'T PRETEND TO BE.........

But I'll watch this ......you watch GGG vs Murray...........

Touched a nerve?

Hagler was a great feat on Leonard's part, however, much of that was to do with the rise in weight and his prolonged absence. Had Hagler been given the nod (as a good number of folk felt he should have been) would his standing have improved? I'd argue not. In that case, does Floyd have everything to lose (as Hagler did)?

I haven't poo-pooed the fight either. I'll still watch it.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 12 Jan - 11:54

Just putting my opinion across.........

and reminding everyone of where you are coming from.....

Fairplay and all that...

How often do two of the top three or four fighters in Boxing clash.............

and It's meaningless when they do apparently... Cool

by milkyboy Mon 12 Jan - 12:10

Its clearly not meaningless. But its frustrating as hell because it may raise more questions than answers, whereas a fight 5 years ago would have been definitive.

The leonard hagler fight has similarities. Not in terms of direct comparables, but that it only taught you a past his best leonard could match a past his best hagler. Neither were shot, far from it, but you couldn't say who had slid the most. It didn't tell you who would have won in their primes. Therein lies the rub. I'll watch it with interest, regardless. They are still two of the very best around afterall, so why wouldn't you. But it will still leave a bad taste.

by TopHat24/7 Mon 12 Jan - 12:14

Rodney wrote:
Can It Still Be A Good Fight?
I really don't know, has Mayweather ever been in a good fight ?

Gatti?

by hazharrison Mon 12 Jan - 12:25

TopHat24/7 wrote:
Rodney wrote:
Can It Still Be A Good Fight?
I really don't know, has Mayweather ever been in a good fight ?

Gatti?

That was a good pasting rather than a good fight. He had an Ok-ish one with Emanuel Burton but no, on the whole his fights have been too one-sided.

by hazharrison Mon 12 Jan - 12:26

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Just putting my opinion across.........

and reminding everyone of where you are coming from.....

Fairplay and all that...

How often do two of the top three or four fighters in Boxing clash.............

and It's meaningless when they do apparently...

Ok, so if it's meaningful and both fighters are still at the top of the sport, then a Pacquiao win will be definitive (in terms of splitting their legacies)?

by milkyboy Mon 12 Jan - 12:26

... this 'hit without getting hit' style of his is tantamount to cheating really. Depriving us of good fights by being better than everyone else. Typical of the little scumbag.

by Hammersmith harrier Mon 12 Jan - 12:33

milkyboy wrote:... this 'hit without getting hit' style of his is tantamount to cheating really. Depriving us of good fights by being better than everyone else. Typical of the little scumbag.

I don't get the not in good fights argument, it's not as if GGG is in good fights but dominates in a different way against lesser opposition. Khan and Froch aren't in entertaining fights because they're too good, it's because they aren't good enough to make certain fights one sided, obvious examples aside.

by BoxingFan88 Mon 12 Jan - 12:43

Can't believe people are bashing this fight, it is still a great fight, Pacquiao and Mayweather are much better than the rest of the welterweight division and would beat all of the other contenders that will face them.

The two best guys in the division facing off against each other, possibly the 2 best in the world right now. Its a mega fight, not quite what it once was, but its still the best matchup since 2007 when I started following boxing.

Hope it happens!

by AdamT Mon 12 Jan - 12:51

Wonder why Mayweather isn't in good fights!

Is it because he is THAT good that few can test him these days. Hardly his fault.

by hazharrison Mon 12 Jan - 12:54

AdamT wrote:Wonder why Mayweather isn't in good fights!

Is it because he is THAT good that few can test him these days. Hardly his fault.

Well, there's that. He's certainly been much too good for the men he's chosen to fight (Cotto gave him something to think about, mind you).

The flipside to that statement is that he hasn't chosen to test himself. A Pacquiao fight several years ago would have been a test (as would a fight at 154 against Martinez).

by AdamT Mon 12 Jan - 12:56

hazharrison wrote:
AdamT wrote:Wonder why Mayweather isn't in good fights!

Is it because he is THAT good that few can test him these days. Hardly his fault.

Well, there's that. He's certainly been much too good for the men he's chosen to fight (Cotto gave him something to think about, mind you).

The flipside to that statement is that he hasn't chosen to test himself. A Pacquiao fight several years ago would have been a test (as would a fight at 154 against Martinez).

Agree with Cotto Haz. Can you also not concede that Floyd and Cotto was quite entertaining?

Still don't believe it is all Floyd fault about Manny. Think both camps are equally to blame.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 12 Jan - 12:58

Mayweather if he isn't Top 10 is very close.........

A truth some find hard to handle, Adam.

by AdamT Mon 12 Jan - 13:01

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Mayweather if he isn't Top 10 is very close.........

A truth some find hard to handle, Adam.

He is in my top ten just ahead of Whitaker.

I get that Floyd is like marmite but honestly he is a boxing prodigy. My dad who grew up watching all the greats from the 60s on, has even conceded (drunk) that Floyd is up there with the very best and deserves to be mentioned in the Leonard bracket.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 12 Jan - 13:03

Don't mind anybody criticising Floyd's record as it has flaws...

But when the guy has Jack Johnson at 7...........It kind of makes you think debating is a waste of time..

by hazharrison Mon 12 Jan - 13:04

AdamT wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
AdamT wrote:Wonder why Mayweather isn't in good fights!

Is it because he is THAT good that few can test him these days. Hardly his fault.

Well, there's that. He's certainly been much too good for the men he's chosen to fight (Cotto gave him something to think about, mind you).

The flipside to that statement is that he hasn't chosen to test himself. A Pacquiao fight several years ago would have been a test (as would a fight at 154 against Martinez).

Agree with Cotto Haz. Can you also not concede that Floyd and Cotto was quite entertaining?

Still don't believe it is all Floyd fault about Manny. Think both camps are equally to blame.

Cotto-Floyd was pretty entertaining (probably his second most entertaining fight after Burton).

by hazharrison Mon 12 Jan - 13:04

AdamT wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Mayweather if he isn't Top 10 is very close.........

A truth some find hard to handle, Adam.

He is in my top ten just ahead of Whitaker.

I get that Floyd is like marmite but honestly he is a boxing prodigy. My dad who grew up watching all the greats from the 60s on, has even conceded (drunk) that Floyd is up there with the very best and deserves to be mentioned in the Leonard bracket.

What was he drinking?

by AdamT Mon 12 Jan - 13:05

hazharrison wrote:
AdamT wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
AdamT wrote:Wonder why Mayweather isn't in good fights!

Is it because he is THAT good that few can test him these days. Hardly his fault.

Well, there's that. He's certainly been much too good for the men he's chosen to fight (Cotto gave him something to think about, mind you).

The flipside to that statement is that he hasn't chosen to test himself. A Pacquiao fight several years ago would have been a test (as would a fight at 154 against Martinez).

Agree with Cotto Haz. Can you also not concede that Floyd and Cotto was quite entertaining?

Still don't believe it is all Floyd fault about Manny. Think both camps are equally to blame.

Glad we finally agree on something

Cotto-Floyd was pretty entertaining (probably his second most entertaining fight after Burton).

by TopHat24/7 Mon 12 Jan - 13:11

AdamT wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
AdamT wrote:Wonder why Mayweather isn't in good fights!

Is it because he is THAT good that few can test him these days. Hardly his fault.

Well, there's that. He's certainly been much too good for the men he's chosen to fight (Cotto gave him something to think about, mind you).

The flipside to that statement is that he hasn't chosen to test himself. A Pacquiao fight several years ago would have been a test (as would a fight at 154 against Martinez).

Agree with Cotto Haz. Can you also not concede that Floyd and Cotto was quite entertaining?

Still don't believe it is all Floyd fault about Manny. Think both camps are equally to blame.

Both camps to blame, no doubt about that, but only 1 of the two fighters opted for temporary retirement......

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 12 Jan - 13:12

Adam, Haz loves Hagler......

I mean he's giving Cotto who beat the number 1 middle in Martinez a hard time for making a voluntary defence instead of fighting GGG...

Hagler fought..................Caveman Lee, Obelmijas x 2, Hamsho x2, Scypion, A Lightweight that got humilated in his next fight.....and a crap jr middle that lost to Duane Thomas next time out.....................

Then lost to a welter who hadn't fought for three years.....Forgetting Hearns was number 1 contender for two years and cut and wobbled him last time out..

No cherry picking there.....

He also has him above Floyd !! Laugh

Like I said little point in looking at Haz..............For any objectivity on this subject !!

by AdamT Mon 12 Jan - 13:15

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Adam, Haz loves Hagler......

I mean he's giving Cotto who beat the number 1 middle in Martinez a hard time for making a voluntary defence instead of fighting GGG...

Hagler fought..................Caveman Lee, Obelmijas x 2, Hamsho x2, Scypion, A Lightweight that got humilated in his next fight.....and a crap jr middle that lost to Duane Thomas next time out.....................

Then lost to a welter who hadn't fought for three years.....Forgetting Hearns was number 1 contender for two years and cut and wobbled him last time out..

No cherry picking there.....

He also has him above Floyd !!

Like I said little point in looking at Haz..............For any objectivity on this subject !!

No chance Hagler is above Floyd. Struggle to beat blown up welter/lightweights. Floyd moves up in weight to meet challenges. Wonder how Hagler would of fared against Spinks? I wonder.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 12 Jan - 13:18

Got a joke for you.....Adam.

"Jack Johnson number 7"..

Rowley "Don't you know Haz that Johnson was a big cherrypicker"...

Haz - "Oh I didn't know that Rowley"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well If you don't know anything about him why is he your number 7 !! Laugh

Priceless....

by hazharrison Mon 12 Jan - 13:18

I haven't given Cotto a hard time for making a voluntary defence.

Almost all of Hagler's championship defences were against his number one contender (back when that still meant something).

Why has this thread unsettled you so much? You'll wear the full stop button out at this rate.

by AdamT Mon 12 Jan - 13:23

hazharrison wrote:I haven't given Cotto a hard time for making a voluntary defence.

Almost all of Hagler's championship defences were against his number one contender (back when that still meant something).

Why has this thread unsettled you so much? You'll wear the full stop button out at this rate.

Not unsettled, full stop is a bad habit sometimes.

If Floyd stayed at superfeather and defended his title against number 1 contenders, would you rate him higher then?

How do you think Hagler would of got on against Spinks at Light Heavy?

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 12 Jan - 13:24

I'm being naughty.............Can't help it sometimes...... Cool

by hazharrison Mon 12 Jan - 13:25

AdamT wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Adam, Haz loves Hagler......

I mean he's giving Cotto who beat the number 1 middle in Martinez a hard time for making a voluntary defence instead of fighting GGG...

Hagler fought..................Caveman Lee, Obelmijas x 2, Hamsho x2, Scypion, A Lightweight that got humilated in his next fight.....and a crap jr middle that lost to Duane Thomas next time out.....................

Then lost to a welter who hadn't fought for three years.....Forgetting Hearns was number 1 contender for two years and cut and wobbled him last time out..

No cherry picking there.....

He also has him above Floyd !!

Like I said little point in looking at Haz..............For any objectivity on this subject !!

No chance Hagler is above Floyd. Struggle to beat blown up welter/lightweights. Floyd moves up in weight to meet challenges. Wonder how Hagler would of fared against Spinks? I wonder.

Yet decided to opt out of the biggest ones that were presented to him.

In order to drag this thread back into some semblance of order can we just take it as read that you love Mayweather and think he's the greatest (and your Dad agreed when drunk).

by AdamT Mon 12 Jan - 13:25

I thought you were referring to my short sentences Haz ha!

by Derbymanc Mon 12 Jan - 13:26

Some Manny and Floyd fans just can't accept that other people don't fawn over them as much as they do.

Pair of them are at fault for the fight not happening in it's prime but as Toppy pointed out, there was only 1 that opted for retirement, and correct me if i'm wrong but wasn't there quite a few decent fighters coming through then?

Floyd is undoubtedly a very very talented boxer, but having seemingly spent the last few years avoiding certain fights, people are going to start to pick them apart.

What are your thoughts on the questions Haz asked at the start of the thread Adam?

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 12 Jan - 13:27

In fairness at least Mayweather has moved up 24 pounds.........

Spinks used to come in at 171 for a lot of his fights....

I guess beating Obelmijas and Hamsho for a second time is more............Meaningful !!!

by AdamT Mon 12 Jan - 13:27

hazharrison wrote:
AdamT wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Adam, Haz loves Hagler......

I mean he's giving Cotto who beat the number 1 middle in Martinez a hard time for making a voluntary defence instead of fighting GGG...

Hagler fought..................Caveman Lee, Obelmijas x 2, Hamsho x2, Scypion, A Lightweight that got humilated in his next fight.....and a crap jr middle that lost to Duane Thomas next time out.....................

Then lost to a welter who hadn't fought for three years.....Forgetting Hearns was number 1 contender for two years and cut and wobbled him last time out..

No cherry picking there.....

He also has him above Floyd !!

Like I said little point in looking at Haz..............For any objectivity on this subject !!

No chance Hagler is above Floyd. Struggle to beat blown up welter/lightweights. Floyd moves up in weight to meet challenges. Wonder how Hagler would of fared against Spinks? I wonder.

Yet decided to opt out of the biggest ones that were presented to him.

In order to drag this thread back into some semblance of order can we just take it as read that you love Mayweather and think he's the greatest (and your Dad agreed when drunk).

I don't love him, just think he is an Atg and admire watching a genuis at work. Nothing wrong with that.

by hazharrison Mon 12 Jan - 13:29

AdamT wrote:
hazharrison wrote:I haven't given Cotto a hard time for making a voluntary defence.

Almost all of Hagler's championship defences were against his number one contender (back when that still meant something).

Why has this thread unsettled you so much? You'll wear the full stop button out at this rate.

Not unsettled, full stop is a bad habit sometimes.

If Floyd stayed at superfeather and defended his title against number 1 contenders, would you rate him higher then?

How do you think Hagler would of got on against Spinks at Light Heavy?

Yes. Had Floyd defended the undisputed championship against bonafide number one contenders than I feel that would outstrip everything he's done since Corrales.

Hagler was probably too small for Spinks but would have given him a fight.

by AdamT Mon 12 Jan - 13:29

Derbymanc wrote:Some Manny and Floyd fans just can't accept that other people don't fawn over them as much as they do.

Pair of them are at fault for the fight not happening in it's prime but as Toppy pointed out, there was only 1 that opted for retirement, and correct me if i'm wrong but wasn't there quite a few decent fighters coming through then?

Floyd is undoubtedly a very very talented boxer, but having seemingly spent the last few years avoiding certain fights, people are going to start to pick them apart.

What are your thoughts on the questions Haz asked at the start of the thread Adam?

Not as big as 4 or 5 years ago but still the biggest fight out there

It is obviously less risk for Manny because he has been previously found wanting.

I think the fight will be good because both men have lost a step and I think Floyd will suprise people and choose to take the centre of the ring and bully Manny!

by AdamT Mon 12 Jan - 13:31

hazharrison wrote:
AdamT wrote:
hazharrison wrote:I haven't given Cotto a hard time for making a voluntary defence.

Almost all of Hagler's championship defences were against his number one contender (back when that still meant something).

Why has this thread unsettled you so much? You'll wear the full stop button out at this rate.

Not unsettled, full stop is a bad habit sometimes.

If Floyd stayed at superfeather and defended his title against number 1 contenders, would you rate him higher then?

How do you think Hagler would of got on against Spinks at Light Heavy?

Yes. Had Floyd defended the undisputed championship against bonafide number one contenders than I feel that would outstrip everything he's done since Corrales.

Hagler was probably too small for Spinks but would have given him a fight.

That's a fair enough answer. Though in my opinion if he stayed in the one divison, people would of questioned his ambition and that he was afraid of bigger challenges. Each to their own.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 12 Jan - 13:31

Like I said Adam................This will be the biggest fight of alltime.............starring two of the current best four p4pers in the world..........

Give me another superfight that has been between...Two of the top four p4pers ??

and tell me If this fight is meaningless...................A fight that isn't ??

by hazharrison Mon 12 Jan - 13:34

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Like I said Adam................This will be the biggest fight of alltime.............starring two of the current best four p4pers in the world..........

Give me another superfight that has been between...Two of the top four p4pers ??

and tell me If this fight is meaningless...................A fight that isn't ??

Jones vs Toney.

by **88Chris05** Mon 12 Jan - 13:36

hazharrison wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Like I said Adam................This will be the biggest fight of alltime.............starring two of the current best four p4pers in the world..........

Give me another superfight that has been between...Two of the top four p4pers ??

and tell me If this fight is meaningless...................A fight that isn't ??

Jones vs Toney.

Chavez-Whitaker. Not sure Jones was rated quite that highly (yet!) when he fought Toney, Haz. I think everyone realised that he was a fantastic talent, but the Toney bout was thought of as his real acid test, a kind of 'time to sink or swim' fight for Jones to see just how real a deal he was.

As it turned out, he was as real as it gets and that was the win which made him a serious pound for pound candidate, rather than a very exciting talent who might go on to be great.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 12 Jan - 13:37

Manny is number 3 according to The Ring..........Even more meaningful..

Jones - Toney wasn't a superfight..

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 12 Jan - 13:37

88Chris05 wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Like I said Adam................This will be the biggest fight of alltime.............starring two of the current best four p4pers in the world..........

Give me another superfight that has been between...Two of the top four p4pers ??

and tell me If this fight is meaningless...................A fight that isn't ??

Jones vs Toney.

Chavez-Whitaker.

Wasn't a superfight either...

by Hammersmith harrier Mon 12 Jan - 13:39

Bonafide number one contenders is pushing it a bit, they were no different to the alphabet number one contenders around today, Mugabi was the only bonafide number one contender he faced.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 12 Jan - 13:40

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Bonafide number one contenders is pushing it a bit, they were no different to the alphabet number one contenders around today, Mugabi was the only bonafide number one contender he faced.

If Mayweather was Hagler and around now...............He'd be calling him a coward for staying in his comfort zone and not fighting Spinks...

Complete bollox..

by Rowley Mon 12 Jan - 13:40

Boxing News are reporting this will be announced by the end of January.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 12 Jan - 13:41

Rowley wrote:Boxing News are reporting this will be announced by the end of January.

Probably won't think "It's worth reporting"

by hazharrison Mon 12 Jan - 13:44

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:In fairness at least Mayweather has moved up 24 pounds.........

Spinks used to come in at 171 for a lot of his fights....

I guess beating Obelmijas and Hamsho for a second time is more............Meaningful !!!

The majority of Hagler’s championship defences came against opponents mandated as top contenders – he didn’t have much of a choice. Surely those fighters – who fought their way into position on merit – deserved their shot?

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