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Are you Better than Hogan?

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Post by McLaren Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:08 pm

Here are Hogan's yardages from a 1949 Time article.

Spoiler:

I know it is the view on here that a player cannot be a 4 handicapper if they fail to hit a 4 iron 175 yards, but I reckon even by today's improved level of play Hogan would be at least a 3 or maybe even 2 handicap player. It is true that he suffered a near fatal car accident in 1949 so I guess he may have an excuse for those pansy yardages.

Excuses aside who on here is better than hogan?

Sadly my weak ass long irons mean that hogan would probably have been able to beat me in a match, but it would have been close as my putting is pretty good and my hook from the tee is a little less severe than his was.
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Post by NedB-H Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:38 pm

How far do you hit your spoon Mac?

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Post by JAS Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:54 am

ok I'll humour you...

In qualifying for the 1953 Open at Carnoustie Hogan shot 70 around the Burnside course. I've twice shot 69 round there in competition ergo I must be better than Hogan!!

This has got nowt to do with Hogan has it? This is all about how equipment has advanced over the last 60 odd years. The mind just boggles at what Hogan would do with modern equipment. Equally, how Poopie would we all would be with 1940's/50s equipment?

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Post by super_realist Tue Jan 13, 2015 4:02 am

Well, I can certainly hit it FURTHER in 2015 than Hogan could in 1949. Doubt I could if I teleported back to then though and I'm sure he'd smash it past me in 2015.

Pretty obvious really.

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Post by Roller_Coaster Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:16 am

Yes. I am currently better than Ben Hogan.

Just.

Although he has been dead for quite some time.

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Post by navyblueshorts Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:49 am

Some interesting numbers there Mac, considering Hogan's equipment. 265 average with his persimmon driver, using old balata balls, is pretty damned impressive if you ask me.
It's not just about distance either is it? I would imagine Hogan hit his 9-iron 115 yards every time and landed it within, say, 5 yards either side of his target. I simply don't have that consistency of ball striking or accuracy.
So no, I'm not better than Hogan even though my irons are way longer than his were from that article.
Btw, the years when Hogan was actually winning stuff, he didn't have a hook - at all. I'm sure you knew that though.
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Post by raycastleunited Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:44 am

Hogan was rubbish. I'm way better, even with gutta percha and feathery balls

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Post by McLaren Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:36 pm

This was clearly intended as mockery towards those who claimed that you must be able to hit a 4 iron 170 or you couldn't be a cat 1 golfer.


But as navy points out the numbers are interesting in themselves. I can barely hit a modern driver 265, never mind averaging that with a persimmon of 65 years ago. My iron yardages are about 10 yards iron more than hogans.
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Post by super_realist Tue Jan 13, 2015 4:04 pm

I actually would quite like to try and see how things were with 1950's gear, or a little bit more modern with the "Goldfinger" Penfold Hearts era.

I can't be bothered with hickories though, that's just rubbish.

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Post by GPB Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:09 pm

I can't make up my mind whether Hogan would have been unbeatable with todays equipment...or tortured by it.

I might not have ever left the range if he had TRACK-MAN to analyze loft, launch angle, spin rate etc.

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Post by super_realist Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:55 pm

Got some old clubs from the 60's at my parents house, might take some down the range. See if I can beat that old spunker Hogan.

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Post by McLaren Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:03 pm

Maybe Hogan would have been a Paddy Harrington type character and tweaked himself to oblivion with all the modern aids, equipment, stats and mind gurus?
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Post by McLaren Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:03 pm

Super

It might be tough to find some equivalent balls to make the comparison a fair one.
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Post by Davie Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:08 pm

McLaren wrote:Super

It might be tough to find some equivalent balls to make the comparison a fair one.

Give him a loan of some of your Penfold Commandos

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Post by super_realist Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:37 pm

I remember some of the rubbish balls I used to hack around the park with when I was young. We had a makeshift nine holer and used to play it with one club. Holes fashioned with a 7 iron for a spade and a pocket full of Commando's, B51's , DDH or Ultra's.

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Post by navyblueshorts Wed Jan 14, 2015 6:56 am

Penfold Commando - the ball no junior wanted to find when out looking for golf balls. Still, at least you couldn't give one a smile.
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Post by super_realist Wed Jan 14, 2015 7:23 am

ON the contrary, they were so soft, they were always scuffed and smiled.
I remember the Molitors being like marbles.

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Post by raycastleunited Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:03 am

some memories...

commando
player
stag
pro-staff
mollitor
slazenger
I once found an acushnet ball and also something called a flying lady


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Post by LadyPutt Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:08 am

raycastleunited wrote:some memories...

commando
player
stag
pro-staff
mollitor
slazenger
I once found an acushnet ball and also something called a flying lady


Aaahhh - a Flying Lady! Was it pink or blue? When I first started playing, my family (who didn't understand golf as they were into playing cricket and rugby) bought me some Flying Lady balls. I soon learned they were not the best to play with. But, to be fair, at the time it wasn't easy to find 80 compression balls at all.

Don't forget that Acushnet is the parent company of Titleist, will you? Not such a c**p ball after all!
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Post by super_realist Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:13 am

Top Flite X Outs seemed to be omnipresent when I was growing, them and Dunlop 65i

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Post by raycastleunited Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:18 am

McLaren wrote:This was clearly intended as mockery towards those who claimed that you must be able to hit a 4 iron 170 or you couldn't be a cat 1 golfer.

Here's a tip: if you have to subsequently explain your mockery, it generally means it wasn't funny and wasn't successful.

Deja vu all over again!

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Post by raycastleunited Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:24 am

LadyPutt wrote:
raycastleunited wrote:some memories...

commando
player
stag
pro-staff
mollitor
slazenger
I once found an acushnet ball and also something called a flying lady


Aaahhh - a Flying Lady! Was it pink or blue? When I first started playing, my family (who didn't understand golf as they were into playing cricket and rugby) bought me some Flying Lady balls. I soon learned they were not the best to play with. But, to be fair, at the time it wasn't easy to find 80 compression balls at all.

Don't forget that Acushnet is the parent company of Titleist, will you? Not such a c**p ball after all!

It was pink, because women would otherwise be put off if they had to use those manly white golf balls! My daughter has some pink Barbie golf balls with butterflies on them. Nothing like gender stereo-typing!

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Post by Shotrock Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:27 am

Amateurs crave distance.

Professionals crave distance control.

(I'm pretty sure I'm a much better curler than Ben Hogan ever was.)

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Post by navyblueshorts Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:38 am

super_realist wrote:ON the contrary, they were so soft, they were always scuffed and smiled.
I remember the Molitors being like marbles.
Soft, yes. One piece as well. Un-cuttable. Molitors were, in my experience, rare. Thankfully. Like hitting a small billiard ball.

Ray. Your mention of the Player ball gave me the shivers. Even worse than the Commando.

Funny how things change. Prostaff balls were excellent in their time, even the surlyn-covered version. The balata versions were awesome, if a little soft-skinned. Seem to remember a funny dimple pattern too. Prostaff now is a word for scheiss. Sort of sums up Wilson's fall from the pinnacle (drumroll) of golf kit manufacture, although they're trying to make some sort of comeback it would seem.

Uniroyal balls anyone? Were reasonable from what I remember and they were way in advance of Callaway re. the hex dimple pattern.

Think my most frequent ball when starting were Dunlop 65s or Prostaffs, if I was lucky, in competitions. Sometimes 1.62s and sometimes 1.68s. Played with all sorts though as used to find hundreds with my brother when out ball hunting on our local course.
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Post by LadyPutt Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:01 am

raycastleunited wrote:
LadyPutt wrote:
raycastleunited wrote:some memories...

commando
player
stag
pro-staff
mollitor
slazenger
I once found an acushnet ball and also something called a flying lady


Aaahhh - a Flying Lady! Was it pink or blue? When I first started playing, my family (who didn't understand golf as they were into playing cricket and rugby) bought me some Flying Lady balls. I soon learned they were not the best to play with. But, to be fair, at the time it wasn't easy to find 80 compression balls at all.

Don't forget that Acushnet is the parent company of Titleist, will you? Not such a c**p ball after all!

It was pink, because women would otherwise be put off if they had to use those manly white golf balls! My daughter has some pink Barbie golf balls with butterflies on them. Nothing like gender stereo-typing!
They made pale blue ones as well. Not sure if any men played with them though laughing
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Post by super_realist Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:11 am

Anyone remember the half and half Ping balls?

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Post by Roller_Coaster Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:22 am

Still have a Ping ball at home. Keep meaning to use it for putting stroke/strike practise on the carpet to help get consistent roll etc.

Pink and white, a classic "that'll be worth something in a few years" moment back in the day. Doubt it will though...

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Post by raycastleunited Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:27 am

Did anyone ever play with those balls with football markings on them? Supposed to help you visualise the spherical nature of the ball better or something. I found one once (a ProV1x) and actually I really liked putting and chipping with it.

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Post by NedB-H Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:25 pm

Found a a bright orange Donnay Golf while hunting for a shanked drive a few months back. Wasn't aware such things existed until then.

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Post by incontinentia Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:53 pm

No matter what the topic of conversation, everyone always ends up talking balls! picard
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Post by Roller_Coaster Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:10 pm

raycastleunited wrote:Did anyone ever play with those balls with football markings on them? Supposed to help you visualise the spherical nature of the ball better or something. I found one once (a ProV1x) and actually I really liked putting and chipping with it.

Saw them and thought they might be a gimmick worth having a go of if they were decent balls (no - I wasn't going to colour any in myself). Never saw any let alone found any, so never had a go.

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Post by McLaren Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:53 pm

You can get a six pack of balls with a football, football (yank style), tennis ball and some others which I can't remember. I have never used them but I assume they are really crap balls.
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Post by super_realist Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:02 pm

Interesting to see how the ball spins on chips with them and how the ball jumps off your putter.

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Post by Bob_the_Job Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:59 am

Have to say I get put off by makings on the ball which are too big or too garish. But I guy I know marks his ball with a very thick line (>1cm) the whole way around the circumference and with it you can clearly see how much spin it has on chips and how true it's rolling on the green. Not sure though why that helps - you can tell that from how it reacts when it lands from a chip or if it goes where you meant it to when you putt.
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Post by Roller_Coaster Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:46 am

http://www.truvis.com/

Had a shufty round t'interwang and Truvis seem to offer the football golf ball marking. Looks like you can buy Srixons with it on or send in your own balls and get them to mark them up.

Pricey at £13 for them to mark up some balls you send in or £43 for some z-stars.

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Post by Bob_the_Job Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:48 am

Roller_Coaster wrote:http://www.truvis.com/

Had a shufty round t'interwang and Truvis seem to offer the football golf ball marking...

They say "We discovered something in golf that they disovered (yep, they have a typo on their website) in football long ago, when it comes to balls... Plain is the past, pattern is the future."

My BS detector is pinging.  More often than not you're striking the ball in football as it moves towards you - so it's important to be able to assess if it's spinning.  In golf you only ever strike a stationary ball, and knowing it's spinning after you've struck it is only of academic interest.
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Post by super_realist Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:51 am

Not at all bob, for you to see how much the ball bounces off your putter or how much check a chip puts on the ball, you can't see how that is useful?

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Post by navyblueshorts Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:34 pm

super_realist wrote:Not at all bob, for you to see how much the ball bounces off your putter or how much check a chip puts on the ball, you can't see how that is useful?
Not really, no. You can't tell how much spin is on a ball from it's behaviour, in general? In any case, we're talking hundreds (chipping) and thousands (pitching) of rpm here - having stuff on the ball tells you nothing unless you have ultra-high speed cameras etc with you when you're out practicing. I don't know any amateur that does. Of what interest is it, really, to see how the ball reacts off the putter? The fact that people like Crenshaw etc could putt so well with old balls and shiny-faced, non-milled putters says all that's really needed about most of this stuff. Anything to make golfers buy more stuff.
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Post by McLaren Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:42 pm

Has anyone ever managed to replace a partners ball with an exploding one without them noticing?
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Post by LadyPutt Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:05 pm

McLaren wrote:Has anyone ever managed to replace a partners ball with an exploding one without them noticing?
Yep laughing  One Boxing Day after I was given them for Christmas. Caused great hilarity all round on the first tee - I think we were all p****d from Christmas Day!
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Post by golfermartin Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:53 pm

McLaren wrote:Has anyone ever managed to replace a partners ball with an exploding one without them noticing?
One of our Captains once had his ball replaced with an exploding golf ball at his drive-in. And it was in the days when it was the first shot of a comp not the ceremonial ones we have these days. He built up to the big moment and then had to do it all over again - very cruel.

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Post by navyblueshorts Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:55 pm

McLaren wrote:Has anyone ever managed to replace a partners ball with an exploding one without them noticing?
Never tried as I thought it would be an easy spot (LP's post seems to suggest otherwise though!). The only joke balls like that, which I've seen, have dimple patterns that don't look remotely like a 'proper' ball......unless that 'proper' ball is a Penfold Player or similar.
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Post by golfermartin Thu Jan 15, 2015 2:04 pm

Of course it might be that the incoming Captain noticed and decided to play along anyway? In which case not so cruel but still caused much hilarity

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Post by 1GrumpyGolfer Thu Jan 15, 2015 2:08 pm

LadyPutt wrote:
McLaren wrote:Has anyone ever managed to replace a partners ball with an exploding one without them noticing?
Yep laughing  One Boxing Day after I was given them for Christmas. Caused great hilarity all round on the first tee - I think we were all p****d from Christmas Day!

Yep, did something similar on the driving range first day of the season a couple of years back. He did notice it wasn't that good a ball but just thought it was a driving range special....

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Post by Roller_Coaster Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:48 am

golfermartin wrote:
McLaren wrote:Has anyone ever managed to replace a partners ball with an exploding one without them noticing?
One of our Captains once had his ball replaced with an exploding golf ball at his drive-in. And it was in the days when it was the first shot of a comp not the ceremonial ones we have these days. He built up to the big moment and then had to do it all over again - very cruel.

Snap - 09 Captain had the same, although a purely ceremonial drive. He'd foolishly allowed the President to set the ball on the tee for him. Many, many giggles.


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Post by raycastleunited Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:55 am

Bob_the_Job wrote:
Roller_Coaster wrote:http://www.truvis.com/

Had a shufty round t'interwang and Truvis seem to offer the football golf ball marking...

They say "We discovered something in golf that they disovered (yep, they have a typo on their website) in football long ago, when it comes to balls... Plain is the past, pattern is the future."

My BS detector is pinging.  More often than not you're striking the ball in football as it moves towards you - so it's important to be able to assess if it's spinning.  In golf you only ever strike a stationary ball, and knowing it's spinning after you've struck it is only of academic interest.

But you know what, it did help with striking the ball. I'd never heard of tru-vis or read about it, I just found a ball and played with it for a laugh. Maybe the markings create the illusion that the ball is bigger, and so there is a confidence boosting psychological effect.

Also it did show more clearly the way the ball behaved on the green in terms of break and spin, so if for example I've chipped on to the green, past the hole and left myself an 8 footer for par, I felt I had a better idea of the putt coming back.

Can I be bothered to order specially printed balls? No. Would I use them if I had a pack in my bag? Yes.

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Post by raycastleunited Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:02 pm

McLaren wrote:Has anyone ever managed to replace a partners ball with an exploding one without them noticing?

Have tried a few times, but almost impossible, as these novelty items resemble bath bombs more than golf balls. I've seen it done to a beginner. It's only going to work if the person is a clueless beginner or massively hung over!

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