UEFA Champions & Europa League 2014-15 Season Thread

[Guest]

First topic message reminder :

Messi is no Harry Kane.

[Guest]

Yeah, they know as a team they aren't in good moment, so many are just plodding along, relieving themselves of the pressure & hoping Ronaldo can bail them out. Kroos, Bale & Isco don't look up for the fight & are shirking responsibility, either not making runs, turning back or just lazily passing side to side. I do think in previous years Ronaldo could bail out sides, but his star is waning now he's past 30.

[Hammersmith harrier]

I think Bale has got to the point where he doesn't care and has quickly realised playing for Madrid isn't all it's cracked up to be, the worse he plays the cheaper he'll be.

[kingraf]

Just want it noted that for all this talk of how much better Barca are doing this year (or whatever), we've made semi finals with them, and they are literally only two points ahead of us in la Liga.

As for this anti-Ronaldo vibe... I don't see it. How can I? Madrid has a higher win % with him on the field than with him off. The loss ratio is about the same, which suggest he's a game winner.

Bale on the other hand can go. He is almost exclusively to blame for the drop off in form for Jan-Mar. We play better with a 4-4-2.

[Guest]

Bayern Munich: Neuer, Alonso, Benatia, Thiago, Lewandowski, Rafinha, Boateng, Bernat, Lahm, Muller, Schweinsteiger

Barcelona: Ter Stegen, Alba, Alves, Mascherano, Pique, Rakitic, Busquets, Iniesta, Suárez, Messi, Neymar,

[Dolphin Ziggler]

This is kamikaze football from Bayern!

[Guest]

Great watch, but suicidal you feel

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Oh how has he not scored

[kingraf]

Reckon Guardiola has made a bit of a mistake here. Can't possibly try fight fire with fire when basically your entire offensive line is sidelined?

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

MESSSSSSIIIIIIIIII

[Fernando]

Barcelona 1-0 Bayern - Messi

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[Fernando]

Barcelona 2-0 Bayern - Messi

Well that was epically smug

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Boateng got absolutely destroyed

[GSC]

Messi

#bestever

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Tie over

[kingraf]

You really would have thought they'd learn from last year. Didn't have the Firepower to even hope to challenge Barça at home. Should have taken the 1-0, even the 2-0 and backed themselves to do the job at home where they've scored for fun all season. Game over now

[Crimey]

Would have been more interesting had Bayern had Robben and Ribery, any team would miss those two. 

Messi is unbelievable, he brings it at the very highest level.

[ShahenshahG]

I thought spanish football had been suspended?

[ShahenshahG]

Sorry they're suspended from 16th may onwards

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32618821

[Dolphin Ziggler]

The ref was very weird on that first goal. Looked like he was going over to talk to Neymar then ran off cos Bayern were playing. Not how it works mate, be in charge of the game.

Boateng's defending on that second is awful. Barely a shift or turn, just falls over

[monty junior]

Meh Bayern missing half their first team, no doubt the media will be tossing each other off of the Messi goals. Rightly so they were great finishes, but i like to see the best against the best at their best. Feel bad for Bayern missing Martinez, Robben,Ribery, Alaba starters wise and Lewandowski playing with fractures and breaks.

[Guest]

Yeah, they were missing players, but that happens in football. You rarely get first XI against first XI. take nothing away from Messi. It was best against the best for those positions, Boateng is their no.1 CB & Neuer is the undisputed best goalie in the world.

Incredible game tonight, just showed how far behind the English teams really are.

[Jermaine2015]

Staggering performance from FC Barcelona tonight. FC Bayern had no legs to get in behind Barca, which makes Mario Gotze only playing the last 15 minutes very more strange. Without Arjen Robben and Franck Ribery, Gotze is the only winger type player who can get in behind. We had no out ball all night. Jerome Boateng was an embarrassment, and to thing we sold him then brought him back from 3 times as much...

That aside, Lionel Messi once again confirmed he's the greatest footballer that's ever lived.

[Guest]

At this level, Lewandowski can't be missing a five yard tap in. If that goes in, could of seen Bayern at least achieving a 1-1, they would never have been so aggressive & open second half.

Tie over, actually see Bayern being destroyed in the second leg going for goals, as Barca's front three will be countering all night long, like Bale & Ronaldo did last year. Huge pressure on Pep though, just the domestic title won & an ageing Bayern squad to rebuild.

[socal1976]

The fact that he beat Neuer twice like a drum and considering how great Neuer had been playing up till that point snuffing everything out is quite spectacular. I think Bayern considering their injuries, playing on the road, and against that front line had Barca under wraps for almost 80 minutes. But it was just Messi taking over for a short spell of brilliance with two goals in three minutes and a beautiful assist to Neymar in extra time that pretty much puts this tie to bed. Can't see either Juve or Real beating this Barca team.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Can we now say that Pep has taken Bayern backwards?

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Not many teams get by with that kind of quality missing.

[Hammersmith harrier]

How many top level teams would be excused for having anybody missing?

I'm not all that concerned by their performances in the Bundesliga but in the seasons with Pep in the champions league they simply do not look like the same team when Heynckes was in charge. In that respect I would say they have gone backwards, they had a very regimented set up to counter the likes of Barcelona which has now disappeared entirely for bizarre experimental formations, as if Pep is trying to show the world how clever he is.

[kingraf]

Bayern have, at any time in the season, had a quarter of their squad out.

They may have gone backwards under Pep. But that's from a treble winning team. Was there any other way but down? Still, they've made back to back Semi finals in the Champs League. Back to back league title, one of which was in record time, and a domestic double. Got to remember that Heynckes won nowt in his first season. His achievements with Bayern are hardly eons from what Pep has done.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Heynckes didn't take over a treble winning side did he though Raf so it's not comparable, one of them took the team forward and the other has seen them regress and injuries just aren't an excuse for a team of Bayerns size.

[Guest]

Personally think this backwards step was inevitable for Pep & Bayern. There's only one direction to go after winning the treble. Throw in an ageing, less hungrier, more injury prone squad & then trying to implement strange tactics & formations, that didn't really need to be introduced to an already successful side. Obviously not having Messi to bail you out is another factor, if Leo gets back to this kind of form for the next two years, I wonder if suddenly Luis Enrique is called the next wonder manager or something. Bayern need a major overhaul for me. How can they look to dominate again with Robben, Ribery, Lahm, Schweinsteiger, Alonso, Dante & more all over 30 years of age. Heard some rubbish about Pep bailing to City now, why would he, funnily enough, the same kind of job applies in a major overhaul their too.

[kingraf]

Heynckes hardly had a collection of journeymen and try hards to work with when he came in.

[Crimey]

Bayern losing Robben and Ribery is the equivalent of Barca losing Suarez and Neymar. If you had taken those two out of the game and replaced them with Pedro and Munir, I think the game doesn't end the way it does.

[Crimey]

Jerome Boateng was an embarrassment, and to thing we sold him then brought him back from 3 times as much...

This is the first time Boateng had played for Bayern in his career though.

[kingraf]

To be fair to Boateng, I'm pretty sure the analysts would have drilled it into him that 9/10 in that position, Messi is going to cut in. Why would Messi take the difficult angle against the best goalie in the world? Really can't hold it against someone if they got outflanked by a genius

[lorus59]

The BBC conducted a poll to ask who was the greatest player ever and Messi got 48% of the vote. The fact that Maradona only got 9% makes me think there is still a lot of bitterness about "the hand of God" goal. I was one of the 9% because, yes he was a flawed individual, but impact wise on a game, the best ever.

[Stella]

Or young voters?

[Dolphin Ziggler]

The defending was awful. It's a good goal, but if it's not Messi then it's just staying a good goal. But the insanity comes out when Messi scores

[Crimey]

Yeah there is a big generational thing. Those that saw didn't see Pele are more likely to say Maradona and now you're getting a lot people (myself included) who never saw Maradona play so are more likely to say Messi.

[socal1976]

I saw Diego play and he was not as good as messi. Had tickets to 94 wc at rise owl in Pasadena in the knockout round when Romania beat the argies 3-2. Maradonna was kicked out of the wc before that match. As great as he was he didn't have the drive and professionalism of messi. In terms of raw technique and control he was without without peer.

As for pele he can lay claim to being the best player on the best national team or most successful of all time. Messi similarly can lay claim to being the best player of the greatest club football dynasty of all time. So for me messi is the greatest if not of all time certainly of modern football.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Always come down to International performances for me, Maradona proved he was a god whereas Messi has yet to do so which unfortunately means he's well down on my list of greatest players.

[Duty281]

Maradona's comfortably ahead of Messi; not really a contest, I think. Still patiently waiting for the latter of the two to almost single-handedly drag his national side to a World Cup victory!

[kingraf]

Well, I mean.. Pele was really lucky enough to be in some phenomenal Brasilian teams. That doesn't take credit away from him, of course (surely being the best player in the best team is as good a qualifier as any?), but it's worth noting.

Also, can we please stop with this whole "single handedly" business. Only slightly short of miraculous as his '86 was, no one, in any team sport single handedly won anything. It's not possible in doubles tennis, it's sure as hell not possible in football.

[Duty281]

I never said Maradona did it "single-handedly", I say he did so "ALMOST single-handedly."

Maradona's profound impact on the '86 World Cup was the greatest ever individual effort in any professional football tournament I can think of.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

International performances are weirdly put on a pedestal. The world of football has changed. And its probably harder to maintain form like Messi has than Maradona doing it over a few games at a World Cup.

[Hammersmith harrier]

The World Cup is the pinnacle of football not the Champions League so is rightly held on a pedestal, if you can't do it for your country when it really matters then you ain't the greatest.

[kingraf]

You know very well it carries the same inference, Duty. Semantics, even then, almost single handedly is wrong. How many saves did he pull off? How many successful tackles were his? Did he pick every man up on corners? Every now and then, someone does pull off a remarkable world cup. It's not looked at the same, for a myriad of reasons, but David Villa's efficient performance in the 2010 world cup, given how poorly the rest of the side was performing in terms of offensive final products, was superlative. Zidane basically dragged France to the promised land in 2006 when he was on the field. Maradona trumps them all, but it's hardly foreign territory. Pity we never found out if he could do it on a cold winters day in Sheffield.

[Guest]

Is the world cup or a european championship for a national side really the pinnacle anymore, given the importance of club football nowadays & the money involved.

I can't accept this Messi hasn't won the WC, so has nothing on Maradona. So if Messi hadn't put that shot wide in the second half of the WC final & they'd won, he's suddenly better than Maradona? Your judging him on one moment & one game, that's what you're doing, it's ridiculous. So Messi could bang another 50 goals per season for the next three years, yet he can't become the best, because really he has to win a World Cup in Russia? He should just sit on a sun lounger for the next three years then. If you look at club level comparison & club goals, it's hands down Messi, not even a contest.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Club level comparison isn't hands down Messi anyway, the moment he starts winning league titles with Napoli then he'll have it hands down but until he does that and wins the world cup he'll forever be a distance behind Maradona.

[Duty281]

So if Messi hadn't put that shot wide in the second half of the WC final & they'd won, he's suddenly better than Maradona?

Nope. I was talking about impact on the tournament as a whole, as an overall.

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