Ireland v England - Post-match warmdown

        
Ireland 19 - 9 England

A continuation of the match thread.

Be respectful please. Your mothers would be proud.

Still no replay!

tH, I don't think you'll get one

By the reactions of the players they thought it was a try.

But I cant be sure as I only saw it in real time?

Nobody cares if it was a try or not

Well it would be nice to see it again

Robshaw looks understandably gutted.

It was irrelevant anyway...so what does it matter.

Breakdown is a massive problem that just isn't getting fixed from when Lancaster took over.

And kicking must be improved 1000%

TightHEAD wrote:By the reactions of the players they thought it was a try.

But I cant be sure as I only saw it in real time?

As I said earlier, it looked fine to me at real speed, thought it was a try. The linesman who called it was the same one who called the knack back a knock on earlier. It wouldn't have changed the result but in this tournament, it could have a big impact if it comes down to points difference.

Still be nice to see a replay, as I wasn't sure either way.

I pay my licence fee

Yep forward, that's I wanted to see.

TightHEAD wrote:Well it would be nice to see it again

Bugger again - twas forward - I was sure it wasn't though.

So frustrating both SL and Robshaw talk a good game but we just don't lean from our mistakes, we still have no idea what our 1st team is.

Well played Ireland. You blew them away.

Ireland deserved to win because they executed a simple Plan A flawlessly, preyed on naive England mistakes under pressure (picking up the ball from in front at least twice - U12s would blush!) and, let's be honest, got a couple of those breaks that tend to go to teams on top (the try was very well taken but the ball could have bounced anywhere before being secured). The score tells the story. If Ireland can go to Cardiff with a Plan B as well - which they'll need against far more streetwise Welsh - and win then they'll deserve a GS.

From an England standpoint, I'm not too down. I thought we looked more the dangerous ball with in hand. We can also look forward to the return of eg M Brown, Tuilagi (for Burrell), and 1st choice second rows.

+1

maestegmafia wrote:Well played Ireland. You blew them away.

Not sure about that mm - they were definitely the better team though. Glad that you enjoyed.

inverdale asked schmidt or gatland for lions coach - and keith wood didnt comment. comedy.

SimonofSurrey wrote:Ireland deserved to win because they executed a simple Plan A flawlessly, preyed on naive England mistakes under pressure (picking up the ball from in front at least twice - U12s would blush!) and, let's be honest, got a couple of those breaks that tend to go to teams on top (the try was very well taken but the ball could have bounced anywhere before being secured). The score tells the story. If Ireland can go to Cardiff with a Plan B as well - which they'll need against far more streetwise Welsh - and win then they'll deserve a GS.

From an England standpoint, I'm not too down. I thought we looked more the dangerous ball with in hand. We can also look forward to the return of eg M Brown, Tuilagi (for Burrell), and 1st choice second rows.

Yep - true that.

On the positive side seeing as it's a RWC year we have a lot of depth of players with game time in the england shirt to call on.

Yes Tighthead - a lot of players have been properly blooded which is useful.

quinsforever wrote:inverdale asked schmidt or gatland for lions coach - and keith wood didnt comment. comedy.

A tad uncomfortable I felt!!

Is it customary to complain about the ref, because Joubert did a fine job with that game all things considered... Not sure why all the bleating.

TightHEAD wrote:So frustrating both SL and Robshaw talk a good game but we just don't lean from our mistakes, we still have no idea what our 1st team is.

Folks on here forget quickly, 1 bad game and we're Poopie. A couple of good ones and we're brilliant.

It just does not work like that.

SimonofSurrey wrote:Ireland deserved to win because they executed a simple Plan A flawlessly, preyed on naive England mistakes under pressure (picking up the ball from in front at least twice - U12s would blush!) and, let's be honest, got a couple of those breaks that tend to go to teams on top (the try was very well taken but the ball could have bounced anywhere before being secured). The score tells the story. If Ireland can go to Cardiff with a Plan B as well - which they'll need against far more streetwise Welsh - and win then they'll deserve a GS.

From an England standpoint, I'm not too down. I thought we looked more the dangerous ball with in hand. We can also look forward to the return of eg M Brown, Tuilagi (for Burrell), and 1st choice second rows.

Good post. I'm not too despondent either. Ireland were better on the day. England made too many mistakes but came back well when other sides might have folded.

Two big games at home now.

Ireland was just better today.


Better disiplined. Better goal kicking. Better at the ruck and break down.

England had too much to do in the second half. Good try by Ireland, and England just not tacticly good enough. Ireland a more experienced team as well.

So well done Ireland. The Grand Slam is your's to lose now.

Nathan it's not so much that.

Im frustrated that it's areas we know we have been bad at that just aren't being fixed.

We know our breakdown is average.. Ireland deliberately targeted us there. Why aren't we fixing it. Hell if it takes hiring a kiwi or Aussie to focus solely on that so be it...but just fix it.

And our kicking has been poor for ages. We don't kick for touch or for space....seemingly aimless straight to to the opposition.

Ireland played tactically very well and stuck to their plan. But we made them look much better Than we should have.

Fantasticbarnsmell wrote:Is it customary to complain about the ref, because Joubert did a fine job with that game all things considered... Not sure why all the bleating.

You must of been watching a different game, or was that one of those pre-made quotes, you know the "im a better man than you because I don't complain about the ref".

I think we can all agree there were a fair few dodgy calls, but I don't think anyone is saying that's the reason england lost.

England gave away to many penalties, our half backs didn't control the game well enough either. I actually though that could of been a game for Owen Farrell to come on as a sub.

Our forwards didn't really help youngs at ruck time, they didn't look interested until the last 20 when there was nice clean ball available.

maestegmafia wrote:Well played Ireland. You blew them away.

Seriously? Wow! I'd love to hear how you would articulate what Wales did to England two years ago in Cardiff, then!!
At the risk of immodesty, I humbly suggest my own comment further up this thread is a more accurate reflection of a clear, deserved but not really overwhelming Ireland win.

Ireland play a very limited game although executed well today but with out Saxton I don't think it works out

GeordieFalcon wrote:Nathan it's not so much that.

Im frustrated that it's areas we know we have been bad at that just aren't being fixed.

We know our breakdown is average..  Ireland deliberately targeted us there. Why aren't we fixing it. Hell if it takes hiring a kiwi or Aussie to focus solely on that so be it...but just fix it.

And our kicking has been poor for ages. We don't kick for touch or for space....seemingly aimless straight to to the opposition.  

Ireland played tactically very well and stuck to their plan. But we made them look much better Than we should have.  

Our breakdown isn't always as bad as you say though and Ireland are one of the best at the breakdown, I think if Farrell was playing we would of done a lot better. I'm not saying he should start ahead of ford but I think if he was on at half time we would of played in the right areas

Well played Ireland, just not good enough today.

Still don't understand why Cipriani in the team and not brought on to had a bit of spice to the team.

Easter as done well since he came into the team, but is he and Croft the Answer to any problems in that the England scrum and line out?

nathan wrote:

Fantasticbarnsmell wrote:Is it customary to complain about the ref, because Joubert did a fine job with that game all things considered... Not sure why all the bleating.

You must of been watching a different game, or was that one of those pre-made quotes, you know the "im a better man than you because I don't complain about the ref".

I think we can all agree there were a fair few dodgy calls, but I don't think anyone is saying that's the reason england lost..

Are you suggesting that, in the context of your standard referring performance (which almost always includes are few dodgy calls), that this performance was of such a poor standard that it warranted mention? I'm not saying it was perfect, I'm just saying it was no worse than what has become the standard. The outcome of the game was in no way influenced by the referee, so I can't see the point of complaining.

Jesus that was a dull affair!

England were just too immature at times, poor decision making and silly penalties killed us.

Got to say the coaches ballsed up massively, why change our gameplan to kick chase against the very best kicking team out there? Just baffling!

Lastly the look of glee on Jouberts face when he got to call that forward pass at the end says it all about his performance.

For 20 minutes in each half Ireland executed their kick and chase to perfection. We had chances when they fell away, and we were vot good enough to take advantage. Made loads of ground ball in hand, then usually gave away brainless penalties.

Correct team won.

England were very poor indeed in my opinion. The handling errors was far too high. The discipline was absolutely atrocious. Lineout - an absolute shambles. Sluggish at the breakdown, poor ball retention.

Credit must be given to Ireland's gameplan which worked like clockwork but it was very predictable. Someone needed to take charge and help England gain some momentum.

I expect Goode will be the scapegoat but I thought he was no more error strewn than the rest of the team ( he actually dug England out of some precarious positions too).

Ford was completely outplayed by Sexton who controlled the match very well until his injury.

England looked devoid of leadership and ideas for most of the game.

Ford's kicking from the restart was poor - giving his team no chance to pick up the kick off and allowing Zebo to catch the ball uncontested. In comparison Sextons kicks were well weighted.

maestegmafia wrote:Well played Ireland. You blew them away.

Refs almost always appear to be kinder to dominant sides, just as bounces and 50/50 moments seem to favour the side on top. Lord knows the England team in 2002-3 had huge slices of luck at key moments (eg Michalak's place kicking horror show in the RWC 2003 S-F). So it was today.

I would prefer to think that any smile on Joubert's face at the end would have been an ironic appreciation that the closing play just about summed up today as one of those 'nearly but not quite at key moments' days for England. Any English moaning about Joubert simply misses the point that Ireland deserved to win and makes us look stupid and petty. I may be the former but I'm definitely not the latter: instead, I say (ok, through gritted teeth, I admit) 'well done Ireland, you won on merit'.

It was a very interesting game in terms of tactics. A Titanic affair up front which I really enjoyed. I don't want to sound smug but I thought we(Ireland) were fairly comfortable throughout the game, probably due to the amount of possession we had. Maybe on another day it would've been a different result but I thought we brought more intensity to the game. England got turned over 22 times in the game which is a ridiculous amount. Hard luck England. Next Stop - Cardiff.

It's in the eye of the beholder I guess - I thought that it was a fascinating clash. Modern rugby means that the days of lovely outside breaks leading to flying wings touching down in the corner in games between closely-matched sides are going to be thin on the ground, I'm afraid.

Ireland were virtually mistake-free when it mattered; England were anything but. The greater experience and nous in certain positions were crucial here. Thought Vunipola was a handful for most of the game; otherwise, Ireland's back-row was immense, comfortably blotting out Haskell and Robshaw. There and especially at the hinge, Ireland had the extra quality that won the game. Totally agreed with Keith Wood that Murray ought to have been MoM - he's been superb for a year or two now, but I thought that was his finest game in green. Sexton's field generalship, his kicking from hand and tee, his defence and his all-round influence put George Ford in the shade, well though Ford actually played and competed.

Defensively, England's back three went pretty well, on the whole - Nowell, Watson and Goode also had their moments with ball in hand; their kicking game and that of the team as a whole veered from the aimless to the non-existent. Tactically, I felt that there was only one side who really seemed to understand what they were attempting.

On the negative side, I am a bit weary of seeing Ireland fall well off the pace in the final quarter, having apparently hung up the 'job done' signs. That's twice in a row now and I hope it soesn't come and bite the team on the backside before this season is done. Sure, Sexton is a huge influence, but there is no excuse for the intensity to drop off by that much. It's a minor criticism of a fantastic and well-deserved win.

Simonofsurrey is anyone really moaning about Joubert? Sure I think Ireland got a bit lucky - particularly with the up and unders but they created those opportunities. England didn't have an answer to Ireland's simple but effective gameplan.

Ireland completely robbed England of any momentum and punished the poor discipline and numerous errors.

A well deserved win for Ireland. It wasn't pretty but if you're Irish you'll be happy I expect.

Have to say Ireland need to look at a different no.23 than Jones,Payne has gone off injured pretty regularly since he's qualified to play for us and there's too much reshuffling ,I'd put Earls in there.Jones is a good player and it's not a knock against him I just don't think he's what we need on the bench.

Great so England give Wales a doin' they come to Murrayfield and take it out on us.

England give Italy a doin' they come to Murrayfield and take it out on us.

Ireland give England a doin' we come to Twickenham for them to take it out on us.

Wales give Ireland a doin' next week, they come to Murrayfield to take it out on us.

Scotland #SixNationsPunchingBag

beshocked: I posted about Joubert in response to the posts from nathan in Fantasticbarnsmell's of 18:43, then the last line of yappysnap's just below that. Those seemed to me to be hinting at derring do from Craig J...

maestegmafia wrote:Well played Ireland. You blew them away.

Really ?yes one try to nil and daft England infringements. Ireland were better more accurate certainly, England = too many errors. Anyway Maesteg your turn next in Cardiff.

The breakdown was the biggest key were England lost the game for me. They actually did some reasonable things with ball in hand, they just couldn't string any phases together and get consistent quick ball with Ireland, and the back row especially, being absolute buggers over the ball. Meant Ford wasn't really given the chance to get his backs in the game. I don't think JJ had any real chance to do anything all day.

Jdizzle I agree partly but it's the whole team's responsibility to secure the ball. I just felt England in general didn't have any momentum to build off - set piece was poor, ball retention was poor, discipline poor, decision making poor.

It's no surprise England lost because they struggled to gain any foothold in the game. Ford 's decision making wasn't great either.

I think England have really missed Ben Morgan, I know some have said BV has been very good but I just haven't seen it and expected him to male more of his chance having got the jersey back after Morgans injury.

I guess there will be a lot of discussions and fingers pointed etc but for me England have to keep faith in the likes of Ford, Joseph and Watson.