Ulster 2014/2015, Part 4

First topic message reminder :

God we love the sound of our own voices.

Given how little Muller actually played for us in his last season, Touhy must have called a fair few lineouts.

But you make a good point about big Dan and Iain having been away.

So... a hypothetical.

We were going to sign Hogg last summer. Anyone wishing we had? Have we lost our ability to sign players of a certain standard?

No, I really don't. At least Ludik is available all year round.

Notch wrote:No, I really don't. At least Ludik is available all year round.

It's hard to quantify just how much Ludik has added to the side during international periods of the season. Obviously your point is valid. But I'm not sure it's a drop off a cliff to Scholes or Nelson from Ludik. As in, Ludik is obviously better but the alternatives aren't disastrous.

Compare that with the thought of finishing our season against Munster Leinster and Glasgow with a player like Hogg playing alongside Bowe/Gilroy/Payne/Olding. Now that i'd like to see!

I didn't understand the negativity at the time. Hogg stood out ath the six nations, and that whilst playing in a side that got the wooden spoon. He's a class act. Ludik is nowhere near his quality.

I don't really see the point in NIQs just to be a little bit better than homegrowns. I'd rather two game commanding / game changing NIQs, than one game commanding NIQs and four 'solid' performer NIQs.

Look at Arnold's cameo the other week. He looked promising, but his chances were limited because we brought in Stanley - another 'solid if not spectacular' NIQ.

Again, a poster elsewhere claimed to have seen Logan meeting with Chris Ashton at the airport. Maybe nonsense - who knows. The reaction was utter detest. Don't get me wrong, I'm by no means a fan - but if the IRFU are relaxing the rules, and Bowe/Trimble are at the World Cup, You'd be daft to not think about a player like Ashton overlooked by England. We have to ask what will win games, and any other notions or personal preferences have no place.


Back to Hogg. Ludik may have been available all year, but Hogg might have sneaked us a few more wins, or try bonus point in the games he would have been available for.

Ashton would be a strange one, while I realise he is a good player I just plain don't like him at all so I'd be very mixed to anything like that happening. Not that I think it will anyways.

neilthom7 wrote:Ashton would be a strange one, while I realise he is a good player I just plain don't like him at all so I'd be very mixed to anything like that happening.  Not that I think it will anyways.

I thought it was strange till I remembered he could likely not be selected for the world cup squad whilst Trimble and Bowe might. But yea... even then - strange. As for the meeting - somebody else on the other forum verified that somebody else had also witnessed the meeting.

It would also be a risk though because theres every possibility he could go to the world cup in which case you would be signing him for no reason but I do see your case. Still wouldn't chnage the fact I don't like him or that celebration lol

Hogg would have taken more money to convince though- too much money for a luxury player and as you say we already have a lot of quality in that back line. I don't have anything against Ludik, but I'm still slightly disappointed we signed a fullback full stop. I think it was a mistake and I think throwing more money at a fullback would have mainly compounded that mistake, especially if that player was going to be unavailable for large chunks of time and especially if one of those times is during the World Cup. That was why I was down on the idea. Obviously Hogg is top quality, but the reasons I opposed his signing have little to do with him.

I agree I'd rather invest in less high-quality NIQs (though Mike Stanley has cost Arnold, what, one game so far? Maybe one or two more to come. Hardly a big deal), but there are quite a few positions where the homegrown options aren't good enough. We're lucky that the injury replacements have worked out as being slightly superfluous. Mike Stanley was signed as an out half who can cover centre (thats why we didn't just promote Arnold) but he's only played in two games before Paddy Jackson and Stuart Olding are back fit. Boys obviously got himself injured before he could start but Chris Henry looks set to return soon anyway, by the time Raaymakers arrived- injured ironically- our injury crisis was already over.

We're lucky that those first three- Jackson, Olding and Henry- aren't gone for the season and I suppose when the signings were made it was unknown whether they'd be back or not,

No idea where it came from but Nick Williams has managed to get himself on a list of rumoured transfer to Harlequins. Somebody on the other forum posted a link to it.

http://www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/read/s98.htm?100,15162179,15162695

I'd be neither surprised or too disappointed, to be honest. If Harlequins want him, and he can get a decent rate, I'd be very pleased for him to take it. As a person, he seems really dead on, but our back row is floundering. We need at least two new players. Williams CAN be bea fantastic ball-carrier, but there's a touch of the work-shy penalty magnet to him. Very poor control at the back of the scrum has seen us lose games before as teams have scored from muck-ups between him and Pienaar. I'd rather let him go and get someone more suitable in.

I'd take Ashton in a heartbeat. I hate the 'Ash Splash' and regard it a soccery thing to be doing but in interviews I've seen with him he comes across as a much more humble lad than he's ever given credit for. He would do alright for cover for Trimbs, Gilroy and Bowe.
It's not going to happen though so it's irrelevant.

Williams heading off early would make sense if what Geoff said is true and bar a few limited performances he's not exactly been the wrecking ball he had been. It would free up a NIQ place for a bit of real quality to come into the back row. I'd go for Tommy O'Donnell

I'd be pretty happy if we replaced Williams with another NIQ number 8.

Notch wrote:I'd be pretty happy if we replaced Williams with another NIQ number 8.

Keiran Reid ?

I see on the harlequins they are chatting about the prospect of big Niki heading to them and seem fairly pleased at the prospect, they reckon he will be an expensive acqusition, do you guys agree with that? Is he really on a big contract here?

I would imagine he was on fairly modest wages in his first contract given his meandering a but they would have rose in his second contract as he was player of the year

It's win-win. Since Nick Williams is under contract with us, we don't have to release him if we can't replace him. If we can get another back rower who's better than him in we improve the squad.

Clive - I was a supporter of signing Hogg at the time and would much rather have had him that Ludik. Money wasn't the issue as he would have been on similar terms to Ludik, but lack of availability was. It was surely better to have a top quality player for the top quality games than to have a lesser quality player available all season, especially when Ulster need to develop Gilroy, Nelson and Scholes. Humphreys (or Anscombe) obviously disagreed.

I also argued against signing Stanley earlier in the thread because Ulster patently don't need him. That smacked to me of Bryn getting busy in his new job rather than a wider helicopter view of the situation.

Notch wrote:I'd be pretty happy if we replaced Williams with another NIQ number 8.

Don't see how that works out. The only reason Ulster are allowed to keep 5 NIQs for next season is because they all have contracts already. If you lose Williams you are back down to 4 like the rest of us.

Surely you would have to lose one of VDM or Ludik also to sign another?

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Notch wrote:I'd be pretty happy if we replaced Williams with another NIQ number 8.

Don't see how that works out. The only reason Ulster are allowed to keep 5 NIQs for next season is because they all have contracts already. If you lose Williams you are back down to 4 like the rest of us.

Surely you would have to lose one of VDM or Ludik also to sign another?

Fine, just give us Jordi Murphy and that fixes things.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Notch wrote:I'd be pretty happy if we replaced Williams with another NIQ number 8.

Don't see how that works out. The only reason Ulster are allowed to keep 5 NIQs for next season is because they all have contracts already. If you lose Williams you are back down to 4 like the rest of us.

Surely you would have to lose one of VDM or Ludik also to sign another?

Fine, just give us Jordi Murphy and that fixes things.

Dominic Ryan at a push....

Or hang on a minute, we know Leinster like to get the young guys ina nd see how they go so we would be happy to take Sean O'Brien off your hands to allow that to happen.

Exactly, I mean Alan O'Connor would be in need of someone that speaks his lingo (he is a Leinster man we half-inched isn't he or did I dream that?)

Pete330v2 wrote:Exactly, I mean Alan O'Connor would be in need of someone that speaks his lingo (he is a Leinster man we half-inched isn't he or did I dream that?)

He is indeed. Skerries Rugby club. North County Dublin. His younger brother Dave played for Ireland u20s this season.

I think you took him from our sub academy. Not sure if Dave will make the full academy either. Though there are 2 second rows finishing this year.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:Exactly, I mean Alan O'Connor would be in need of someone that speaks his lingo (he is a Leinster man we half-inched isn't he or did I dream that?)

He is indeed. Skerries Rugby club. North County Dublin. His younger brother Dave played for Ireland u20s this season.

I think you took him from our sub academy. Not sure if Dave will make the full academy either. Though there are 2 second rows finishing this year.

He's been a great find for us Jen as I'm sure you know. Just don't be gettin ideas about luring him back.

We are getting Mick Kearney from Connacht. Another one of ours that got away from the sub academy.

Was talking to O'Connor's mammy a while ago. I told her that he was welcome back with open arms.

Sure who needs a world class No 8, look at the other superstar signings we have already made this year, there's Big Willie Faloon and ...... Emmmmm........?????????

BelfastDickVet wrote:Sure who needs a world class No 8, look at the other superstar signings we have already made this year, there's Big Willie Faloon and ...... Emmmmm........?????????

You only know that because you're a Dick Vet!

First time theres been anything like a rumour here for months. Where's Geoff when you need him! Geoff! If you're out there, can you either substantiate or quash this rumour that Williams is maybe leaving? And shed light on whether IRFU are allowing him replaced by an NIQ?

If Williams is off because he's unhappy or something, and we are forbidden from replacing with NIQ, then it's far from good news...

On the other hand if Williams does leave and can't be replaced then maybe we will see the likes of Dow more. Plus really he hasn't done much for us recently anyway so I'm not sure it would be a great loss

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

BelfastDickVet wrote:Sure who needs a world class No 8, look at the other superstar signings we have already made this year, there's Big Willie Faloon and ...... Emmmmm........?????????

You only know that because you're a Dick Vet!

I don't get it.

You only know that he has a large pen1s because you are a vetinary surgeon specializing in the area of pen1ses (in the Belfast area)

It's even less funny when you have to explain it.

I have to disagree, I think it's funnier.

Also do you think there is a gap in the market for a vet that specialises in Winkle? Could this be how I make my millions.

Speaking of Dick Vets - has anyone ever seen a male cats willy?

This thread has taken a very strange turn..

Well we need to talk about something until Geoff comes back.

BelfastDickVet wrote:Well we need to talk about something until Geoff comes back.

It's all your fault, your nom de plume attracts this kind of thing. Dirty Boys

On the Williams subject, didn't Geoff say that Williams was one of Anscombe's little kiwi gang drinking buddies and has been left with a lack of desire due to the exit of his special friend Mark?

Pete330v2 wrote:

BelfastDickVet wrote:Well we need to talk about something until Geoff comes back.

It's all your fault, your nom de plume attracts this kind of thing. Dirty Boys

I can't help what I am Pete.

On a more serious note, I want to see more of Low, he was a constant in the U20's and has been getting rave reviews. Also it was great to see a lot of ulster boys involved in the U20's front row, let's get these lads involved in the Ravens at least. As a front rower myself, I know you only grow as a prop by scrummaging against challenging opposition, sure you are going to get some awful days, but you learn more from that than 10 easy days in the scrum. Let's challenge these lads more than we already are. Kyle McCall hasn't been given the chance to be challenged and he has fallen by the wayside.

Ulster team & replacements to play Cardiff Blues, Guinness PRO12, Kingspan Stadium, Friday 27th March (19:35 kick off):

(15-9): L Ludik; C Gilroy, D Cave (Captain), S Olding, M Allen, P Jackson, R Pienaar; (1-8): C Black, R Herring, W Herbst, D Tuohy, F Van der Merwe, I Henderson, C Ross, N Williams;

Replacements (16-23): J Andrew, A Warwick, B Ross, R Diack, A N Other, P Marshall, I Humphreys, R Scholes.

Jackson and Olding start

Darren Cave is Captain again... Wilson unavailable for personal reasons

Nick Williams and Iain Henderson in the same back row again, alongside Clive Ross

Two things; who is going to provide leadership on the pitch? And who is going to hit the rucks? Worrying... Diack should probably be starting ahead of Henderson. Balance is more important than just getting the best individual talent onto the pitch.

Lots of potential for this to go horribly wrong in the back row. Could see a lot of penalties being conceded.

Good aul' A. N. Other.

Decent team, but share your concern about back-row.

Cardiff have two very good opensides- Jenkins at 7, Navidi at 8. We have good ball carriers but no-one who is good at getting quickly to the subsequent breakdown and securing it. This doesn't just include the back row, our whole team is very poor at this.

Say we do go behind early in the match and struggle to get into it due to a high penalty count at the breakdown as we've seen with this team many times before, and a high error count? Who gets the team together and lays down the law? Darren Cave?

I can see us losing this game if we're not careful. The coaches watched this exact same pack play against the Dragons and picked it again en masse. The omission of Diack is mind boggling. He's the only guy who does the unglamorous stuff there! Even when we've had Chris Henry in the team he's not always been able to compensate for a Henderson/Williams combination. You have to pick one or the other there.

I do think Diack should have been in there and the ruck will be really effected by the fact our back row will not be good enough at it. We need the biggest win we can get here and that isn't agood way to start.
btw match thread at https://www.606v2.com/t58290-ulster-v-cardiff-blues as well

It's a worry alright and I can't see where the leadership will magically appear from. This could be yet another rudderless display when we expect 5 points and get naff all.
Still, lets have faith eh????

Chris Henry pictured at Captain's Run. Perhaps the A N Other? Pending approval from his mammy of course?

That would be such a lift if it was correct Clive

It at least looks likely. Captain's Run is usually just the matchday squad players yea?

The Captain's Run photos on Ulster's Facebook carefully manages to not show Chris. But DIckson put's ALL his photos on his own site and Henry was there among them.

http://dicksondigital.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/260315-Ulster-Rugby-Captains-Run/G0000PBSVhhH46iY/I0000.gJuNA8MTSE/C000053YhRT5c5uM

Beeb now reporting Henry is in line for the bench spot 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/32083631

Looks like your rumours have spread wide now Clive lol

Massive boost for the last twenty minutes if true -

A) he is our best backrow, never mind best seven.
B) he is one of our leaders.
C) the unholy roar that will greet him when he comes on will make everyone on that team feel ten foot tall.

So Henry, Jackson and Olding back. < Sinks to ground weeping uncontrollable tears of gratitude. >

On a related issue, does the apparent witchdoctor voodoo that is practised by the medical team require some kind of human sacrifice or substitution of souls in a Faustian injury pact?

Raaymaker comes over, already injured, Hendo comes back early.
Stanley arrives in, gets injured, Jacko comes back early.
Boys arrives in, gets injured, Henry comes back early.

Hmmm....