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Edinburgh vs Dragons, ECC Semi Final

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Post by GavinDragon Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:13 pm

Edinburgh vs Dragons, ECC Semi Final Edinbu11                           Edinburgh vs Dragons, ECC Semi Final Dragon10
Edinburgh Rugby v Newport Gwent Dragons
Friday 17 April 2015
KO 19:45
BT Murrayfield, Edinburgh

Referee: JP Doyle
AR1: Luke Pearce
AR2: Marius Mitrea

*****
Teams:

Edinburgh Rugby
15. Jack Cuthbert
14. Dougie Fife
13. Sam Beard
12. Andries Strauss
11. Tim Visser
10. Phil Burleigh
09. Sam Hidalgo-Clyne

01. Alasdair Dickinson
02. Ross Ford
03. WP Nel
04. Anton Bresler
05. Ben Toolis
06. Stuart McInally
07. Roddy Grant
08. Mike Coman (c)

16. Neil Cochrane
17. Rory Sutherland
18. John Andress
19. Fraser McKenzie
20. Cornell Du Preez
21. Nathan Fowles
22. Tom Heathcote
23. Tom Brown

Newport Gwent Dragons
15 Jason Tovey
14 Tom Prydie
13 Tyler Morgan
12 Jack Dixon
11 Hallam Amos
10 Dorian Jones
09 Jonathan Evans

01 Brok Harris
02 T. Rhys Thomas (c)
03 Dan Way
04 James Thomas
05 Cory Hill
06 Nick Crosswell
07 Nic Cudd
08 Taulupe Faletau.

16 Rhys Buckley
17 Phil Price
18 Lloyd Fairbrother
19 Matthew Screech
20 James Benjamin
21 Luc Jones
22 Ashton Hewitt
23 Geraint Rhys Jones

*****
Couldn't wait any longer to start this thread.

Absolutely bouncing for Friday. First semi final for 8 years and hoping we can go one better. Dragons have just announced a third coach of supporters booked for the trip which, given the short notice, is a great effort.

We are coming in off a bonus point win against pro12 champions Leinster (while being 22-8 down at one point), have won four on the bounce and have a great team spirit of young Welshmen from around the region with a sprinkling of gnarly pros.

Bouncing Edinburgh vs Dragons, ECC Semi Final 3933776953 Edinburgh vs Dragons, ECC Semi Final 3933776953 Edinburgh vs Dragons, ECC Semi Final 3933776953 Edinburgh vs Dragons, ECC Semi Final 3933776953


Last edited by GavinDragon on Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:00 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Guest Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:05 pm

I'm going up in a car. Can't wait. Done it on a budget, though Dragons deal is good. Can't wait to get up there Friday afternoon and get amongst it.

Hope Boris and Patch get passed fit.

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Post by The Saint Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:17 pm

I fancy us to do it Wink. Edinburgh... Umm, who are they again?

Rev, wish I was going to, I could actually afford it! Who's Patch? And agree we need Boris (and Landman) badly for the rest of the season's games.

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Post by cakeordeath Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:30 pm

Risca Rev wrote:I'm going up in a car. Can't wait. Done it on a budget, though Dragons deal is good. Can't wait to get up there Friday afternoon and get amongst it.

Hope Boris and Patch get passed fit.

Well I hope you have better luck than me. I once go so lost driving from Porthcawl to Glasgow it took me 9+ hours.


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Post by Guest Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:32 pm

Patch is Leach.

I just couldn't not go, even though money wise I probably shouldn't Wink

laughing I'm back seat all the way, so no worries for me. Though I have a vague idea of where I'm going and I think we have sat nav. I want no part of navigating.

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Post by The Saint Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:34 pm

I like Leach, but I think he should start in place of Dixon and not Morgan who is one of our best (if not best) attacking players.

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Post by bedfordwelsh Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:15 pm

Dixons defence was outstanding yesterday though so will be a big call to drop him. Am gutted I cant go but have booked the weekend off for the final in advance Smile
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Post by LordDowlais Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:21 pm

I hope Dragons win on Friday night, I really do, it would be nice for the die hard fans who, to put it mildly have had to put up with a lot of dross at RP over the last couple of seasons, to finally have a day out to celebrate, and who knows, on the day, in a final anything could happen, I will be cheering you lot on Friday night, Edinburgh are not Toulon or the All Blacks, they are a team Dragons are more than capable of beating, I just hope Dragons show the passion they showed to come back yesterday, if they do, it should see them through.

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Post by GavinDragon Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:29 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:Dixons defence was outstanding yesterday though so will be a big call to drop him.  Am gutted I cant go but have booked the weekend off for the final in advance Smile

I couldnt make the quarters as I was with a pre booked trip to the in laws.

Can't make Friday as too short notice.

and I am in the bloody states for the final....

I am hopin gmy non attendance is the lucky charm

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Post by VinceWLB Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:29 pm

Talking about Dragons last semi final, i remember the Dragons played in Clermont in 2006. They played a great game and at one point scored a try i never thought i would see again, that was a "wall" try from a penalty kick which left ASM' players totally reaction less! What i would do to watch it again.

Not confident of an Edinburgh win anymore after last weeks' games but i think Dragons short turnaround should see Embra through imo.

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Post by GavinDragon Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:33 pm

VinceWLB wrote:Talking about Dragons last semi final, i remember the Dragons played in Clermont in 2006. They played a great game and at one point scored a try i never thought i would see again, that was a "wall" try from a penalty kick which left ASM' players totally reaction less! What i would do to watch it again.

Not confident of an Edinburgh win anymore after last weeks' games but i think Dragons short turnaround should see Embra through imo.

I remember that try, classic old school try like something out of the 70's.

Wasnt it a front rower who scored it

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Post by VinceWLB Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:38 pm

GavinDragon wrote:
VinceWLB wrote:Talking about Dragons last semi final, i remember the Dragons played in Clermont in 2006. They played a great game and at one point scored a try i never thought i would see again, that was a "wall" try from a penalty kick which left ASM' players totally reaction less! What i would do to watch it again.

Not confident of an Edinburgh win anymore after last weeks' games but i think Dragons short turnaround should see Embra through imo.

I remember that try, classic old school try like something out of the 70's.

Wasnt it a front rower who scored it

Yes! it was definitely a prop! Classic try indeed. Just checked it was Adam Black.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:40 pm

The Saint wrote:I fancy us to do it Wink. Edinburgh... Umm, who are they again?

They were good enough to beat London Irish away.

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Post by RDW Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:04 pm

Momentum has certainly swung towards the Dragons - they are the form team, and we're potentially going to be very short in the back row. With Matt Scott confirmed injured for the rest of the season we're seriously lacking creativity in the backs, and if Hidalgo-Clyne doesn't shake off his knock we might as well hoist up the white flag! Could really do with Cuthbert returning too so we can move Tonks back to 10.

Our front 5 should be strong, but are looking seriously fatigued after a long hard season playing a lot of rugby.

If our front 5 dominate I think we'll win this one. If the Dragons get a solid platform or if the game is fast and loose then I think they'll win.

Likely Edinburgh team

1 Dickinson
2 Ford
3 Nel
4 Bresler
5 Toolis
6 Grant
7 Watson
8 Coman

9 Hidalgo-Clyne
10 Tonks/Heathcoat
11 Visser
12 Strauss
13 Burleigh
14 Fife
15 Cuthbert/Tonks

So I think that team has enough to win, but we need a dramatically improved forwards performance from last week. The only saving grace is that we're not facing the Munster pack again!

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Post by bedfordwelsh Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:16 pm

We have had two games now were we have had to come from behind to win and then hold out with huge defensive efforts so hopefully that hasn't taken to much out of us but with the short turn around who knows.

I just hope we don't start slow again and give ourselves a mountain to climb.
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Post by Cardiff Dave Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:19 pm

LordDowlais wrote:I hope Dragons win on Friday night, I really do, it would be nice for the die hard fans who, to put it mildly have had to put up with a lot of dross at RP over the last couple of seasons, to finally have a day out to celebrate, and who knows, on the day, in a final anything could happen, I will be cheering you lot on Friday night, Edinburgh are not Toulon or the All Blacks, they are a team Dragons are more than capable of beating, I just hope Dragons show the passion they showed to come back yesterday, if they do, it should see them through.

Wise words mate.

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Post by TJ Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:08 pm

Edinburgh should play a second team. We have more important games than this meani9ngless micky mouse contest. Probably already ruined our season tho in not getting into the euro cup. Its a complete waste of time and as I feared these extra games have cost us a chance of getting into the main euro cup.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:21 pm

I think we need to drop Strauss and move Burleigh to 12 with Beard at 13. We also need Brown at 15 and Tonks at 10. The backs did nothing against Munster and we need to liven things up. If H-C isn't fit then I'd go for Grayson Hart at 9.

In the pack my only change would be starting McInally instead of Ford, plus am hoping Coman is fit to start at 8 (how times have changed). Let's get Du Preez on the bench, even if he can only do 10 minutes he will get the crowd going.

The likes of Ford, Sutherland and McKenzie are going to have a big role to play in this off the bench.

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Post by Guest Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:43 pm

TJ wrote:Edinburgh should play a second team.  We have more important games than this meani9ngless micky mouse contest.  Probably already ruined our season tho in not getting into the euro cup.  Its a complete waste of time and as I feared these extra games have cost us a chance of getting into the main euro cup.

Here you go again. You are such a hypocrite TJ. You criticise some Welsh posters for calling the Pro12 Mickey Mouse and a waste of time then do exactly the same about this cup. You need to find some consistency TJ! You're tarnishing the European rugby brand. Tsk!

Do everyone a favour and please don't post your negative shoite on this thread. This is for those of us looking forward to the game and hoping to reach the final.

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Post by Cardiff Dave Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:43 pm

TJ wrote:Edinburgh should play a second team.  We have more important games than this meani9ngless micky mouse contest.  Probably already ruined our season tho in not getting into the euro cup.  Its a complete waste of time and as I feared these extra games have cost us a chance of getting into the main euro cup.

Rest your best. World cup coming up.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:04 pm

Cardiff Dave wrote:
TJ wrote:Edinburgh should play a second team.  We have more important games than this meani9ngless micky mouse contest.  Probably already ruined our season tho in not getting into the euro cup.  Its a complete waste of time and as I feared these extra games have cost us a chance of getting into the main euro cup.

Rest your best. World cup coming up.

Doubt many of our players will feature!!

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Post by bedfordwelsh Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:18 pm

This comp may not be the best and some teams may not take it seriously but surely winning something is better than not winning anything.

I was always brought up with the view of wanting to win any and every game.
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Post by Guest Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:24 pm

Amos has said we are going to be grounded heading into the game and mentioned how we were comfortably beaten up there this season (albeit 24-10).

Dragons are on pretty light sessions this week, so will be plenty fresh. Plus the enthusiasm of the youngsters and adrenaline will see them right.

I would probably back Edinburgh, but who knows. I'm sure they'll be doing a lot of work on defensive lineouts this week to work on countering driving lineouts.

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Post by The Saint Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:46 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
The Saint wrote:I fancy us to do it Wink. Edinburgh... Umm, who are they again?

They were good enough to beat London Irish away.

Aw shucks you don't say. There was me thinking both of those teams agreed to let Edinburgh win this year, free of charge.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:34 am

I just don't think dismissing / belittling the home team is particularly wise, or particularly polite.

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Post by George Carlin Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:35 am

Play nicely now, Saint.

I also have the Dragons down as slight favourites for this - they will have been watching the way that the Edinburgh pack was squished in the loose by Munster at the weekend and know it will be largely the same 8. Similarly the Dragons had too much energy and endeavour for Leinster and were well worth the victory.

If this was at Dave Parade, I would be v worried. At Murrayfield, I am less concerned but Edinburgh absolutely have to get SHC, Denton and Cuthbert back or they are playing with one hand tied behind themselves.
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Post by Guest Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:35 am

Edinburgh are my favourites for this due to better league form over the season so far (if not in recent weeks) and home advantage. Plus Dragons' away record is usually gash. We often freeze away from home or play well below par. But saying that with our current coaching set up our recent away form is starting to improve (an away win in Leinster was unheard of for us until a few weeks back), we're getting a better platform compared to recent years and we're in good current form with confidence high. So who knows! I still think the fact that this is an away game for us may be the biggest influence on the outcome. As George says, a Dave Parade fixture would make me much more confident, as I was for the Blues game.

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Post by The Saint Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:46 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I just don't think dismissing / belittling the home team is particularly wise, or particularly polite.

I was kidding. Maybe if you payed attention to comments on this forum you'd have realised.

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Post by The Saint Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:49 am

Griff wrote:Edinburgh are my favourites for this due to better league form over the season so far (if not in recent weeks) and home advantage. Plus Dragons' away record is usually gash. We often freeze away from home or play well below par. But saying that  with our current coaching set up our recent away form is starting to improve (an away win in Leinster was unheard of for us until a few weeks back), we're getting a better platform compared to recent years and we're in good current form with confidence high. So who knows! I still think the fact that this is an away game for us may be the biggest influence on the outcome. As George says, a Dave Parade fixture would make me much more confident, as I was for the Blues game.

I think more recent form is more relevant. A sound beating by Munster at your home ground surely can't be good, compared to us winning our last three games - the opposition weren't mugs either. Our away form is always terrible but Murrayfield isn't a place that instils me with fear. If we get some guys back and front up a bit, match them in the scrums, etc. then I think we can come away with the win - I think we got better attacking players in the backs.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:19 pm

Nah, Dragons are terrible. Personally I'd just scrap them as a region. We'll stuff them.

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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:28 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:Nah, Dragons are terrible. Personally I'd just scrap them as a region. We'll stuff them.

laughing
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Post by The Saint Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:47 pm

We'll see Wink.

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Post by Nematode Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:20 pm

My team would be:

Dickinson*
Ford
Nel*
Bresler*
Toolis
Coman
Watson
Denton

SHC
Tonks
Visser
Burleigh*
Beard
Fife
Brown

The Dragons are certainly going to be tough opposition. Looking at their results this season, and they've had some highly impressive victories and a few close calls.

Players with an * are those who I think should be considered to be rested. It's likely we'll face a 7th place playoff and we want these players fresh.

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Post by InjuredYetAgain Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:44 pm

Likely to face a 7th place play off. I can't help thinking you may be being a bit optimistic, Tide.
On a disappointing note, there was something in a website (probably SRU, BBC or Tube 8 as they are the only other ones I go to) saying only 3,000 tickets had been sold. I think the weather is to be nice at the end of the week which might improve the "walk up" sales but nonetheless ......

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Post by bedfordwelsh Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:09 pm

Nematode wrote:My team would be:

Dickinson*
Ford
Nel*
Bresler*
Toolis
Coman
Watson
Denton

SHC
Tonks
Visser
Burleigh*
Beard
Fife
Brown

The Dragons are certainly going to be tough opposition. Looking at their results this season, and they've had some highly impressive victories and a few close calls.

Players with an * are those who I think should be considered to be rested. It's likely we'll face a 7th place playoff and we want these players fresh.

We are only 6 points behind you now in the League and have you to play at home so I wouldn't be to sure about that. We are only 7 behind Scarlets and Connacht.
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Post by Guest Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:58 pm

This really irks me to be honest. Ive always liked an underdog so been interesting watching the dragons of late. This one thread is already putting me off though .. one sniff of a final and those that represent dragons fans appear to let it get to their head already. Suddenly edinburgh are nothing to worry about and they'll be smashed out of the way in the league to boot.

I'm not saying dragons won't win and I know these hopes are backed up by genuine facts about the improvement of the side but jaysus does a little humility not help?

I don't see the edinburgh lads talking themselves up and theyre the ones in the power position if you ask me.

Sincerely, a neutral ish viewer (weegie)

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Post by bedfordwelsh Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:02 pm

Where, other than one tongue in cheek post have you read that we said you are nothing to worry about or that we will smash you out of the way in the league?

Like me most Dragons fans have admitted that our away form has been terrible, yes we are on a good run but I also ask how much those last 2 games have taken out of us given that we have had to come from behind and defend for our lives at the end added to the short turn around this week.

Despite your loss at home last week most think you are favourites given home advantage.
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Post by Guest Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:12 pm

Sorry i misread your last post A bit too .. My bad! I know a couple of rugby fans down my end near Wales too though and the Welsh contingent seemconvinced the burgh don't stand a chance .. just frustrating as i was trying to like the dragons!

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Post by Guest Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:42 pm

Ineffable wrote:This really irks me to be honest. Ive always liked an underdog so been interesting watching the dragons of late. This one thread is already putting me off though .. one sniff of a final and those that represent dragons fans appear to let it get to their head already.  Suddenly edinburgh are nothing to worry about and they'll be smashed out of the way in the league to boot.

I'm not saying dragons won't win and I know these hopes are backed up by genuine facts about the improvement of the side but jaysus does a little humility not help?

I don't see the edinburgh lads talking themselves up and theyre the ones in the power position if you ask me.

Sincerely, a neutral ish viewer (weegie)

I've seen one guy overly talk us up, not "those that represent Dragons fans". People generalising and/or tarring all with the same brush irks me.

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Post by Guest Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:44 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:Nah, Dragons are terrible. Personally I'd just scrap them as a region. We'll stuff them.

If one person's view is representative of all our views, what does this mean? laughing

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Post by Welshmushroom Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:01 pm

Reckon we are the underdogs for this one - just. Amos is seriously dangerous at the moment though and Evans at 9 is going strong as well. Shame he's off to bath next year. That said we do have an awful lot of young talent that's performing right now. Dixon too is playing really well.

I just wish Lyn didn't sign Byrne, Powell and Gough. Those guys cost a pretty penny and given the form of the youngsters I wonder if we could have invested the money in other areas of weakness. Those guys have to be on the best games per salary ratio ever!!

That said Landeman and Brook have been inspired signings from Lyn so it wasn't all doom and gloom in the transfer market.

I certainly don't think this is going to be a easy match for Edinburgh.

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Edinburgh vs Dragons, ECC Semi Final Empty Re: Edinburgh vs Dragons, ECC Semi Final

Post by bedfordwelsh Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:03 pm

I think if Byrne had managed to stay injury free he could have been a very good signing, adding that bit of experience in a very young back line and I expected way more from Powell.
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Edinburgh vs Dragons, ECC Semi Final Empty Re: Edinburgh vs Dragons, ECC Semi Final

Post by Nematode Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:08 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:

We are only 6 points behind you now in the League and have you to play at home so I wouldn't be to sure about that.  We are only 7 behind Scarlets and Connacht.

6 Connacht L3 44: Glasgow, Zebre, Ospreys
7 Scarlets L3 44: Dragons, Cardiff, Treviso
8 Edinburgh's L3 43: Zebre, Dragons, Leinster
9 Dragons L3 37: Scarlets, Edinburgh, Munster

Hard to tell how Dragons vs Edinburgh will play out, but Zebre and Leinster seems like a combination more likely to yield points than Scarlets and Munster.

If Edinburgh beats Dragons, then I think Edinburgh should make 7th place.

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Edinburgh vs Dragons, ECC Semi Final Empty Re: Edinburgh vs Dragons, ECC Semi Final

Post by bedfordwelsh Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:21 pm

Nematode wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:

We are only 6 points behind you now in the League and have you to play at home so I wouldn't be to sure about that.  We are only 7 behind Scarlets and Connacht.

6 Connacht L3 44:   Glasgow, Zebre, Ospreys      
7 Scarlets L3 44:      Dragons, Cardiff, Treviso      
8 Edinburgh's L3 43: Zebre, Dragons, Leinster      
9 Dragons L3 37:     Scarlets, Edinburgh, Munster  

Hard to tell how Dragons vs Edinburgh will play out, but Zebre and Leinster seems like a combination more likely to yield points than Scarlets and Munster.

If Edinburgh beats Dragons, then I think Edinburgh should make 7th place.

Nem,

Much like I think Edinburgh are faves going into this game due to home advantage I would tip us to win the league fixture at Dave, our Scarlets game is at the MS so who knows how that will pan out but if we do mange to win on Friday then we will go into that game on a huge high.

If we had to go to Munster in the last game having to get the points then I agree I wouldn't hold out much hope.

I can't see Connacht getting much out of Glasgow or the Ospreys but the fact that these 'mid table' games now mean something has to be a bonus from seasons gone by.
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Edinburgh vs Dragons, ECC Semi Final Empty Re: Edinburgh vs Dragons, ECC Semi Final

Post by Cardiff Dave Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:49 pm

Ineffable wrote:Sorry i misread your last post A bit too .. My bad! I know a couple of rugby fans down my end near Wales too though and the Welsh contingent seemconvinced the burgh don't stand a chance .. just frustrating as i was trying to like the dragons!

Bet it's been very trying for Drags fans to like the Drags over the years coz they've been mostly rubbish. Looking good for them now though as their team's gander is well and truly up for a change and I fancy them to do Edinburgh simply because I sense the Drags have a swagger.

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Edinburgh vs Dragons, ECC Semi Final Empty Re: Edinburgh vs Dragons, ECC Semi Final

Post by The Saint Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:24 pm

Isn't it funny that when a Welsh person dares to believe in their team they're dismissed as arrogant, or talking themselves up. I think we can win, if that makes me arrogant I really couldn't give a monkeys. I've also seen this competition dismissed as a mickey mouse competition, and that Dragons should be disbanded...both on this thread and what do you know, both by Scottish posters. Why didn't you whine about those posts? I don't get it... One rule for you and different for Wales fans?

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Post by GavinDragon Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:28 pm

I don't think many Dragons fans are underestimating Edinburgh - more just enjoying being able to be positive about the team they support for a change

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Post by BigGee Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:42 pm

Why should long suffering fans get behind not their team when they eventually give them something to get excited about. God knows we Scottish fans do it often enough when Scotland give us a few glimpses of hope, like they did this autumn!

When Edinburgh beat London Irish in the quarter, I thought with a home semi that they were as good as in the final. Watching the guts and class that Dragons showed against Leinster, I am not so sure now.

Its a cup semi final at the end of the day, winner takes all and form is probably going to have nothing to do with it. Here are a couple of teams who have had a pretty dismal few years, who are suddenly finding their way at long last. Who do we think wants it, or needs it more.

All to play for and anyone's game. Looking forward to it, should be a great game!

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Edinburgh vs Dragons, ECC Semi Final Empty Re: Edinburgh vs Dragons, ECC Semi Final

Post by bedfordwelsh Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:44 pm

With it obviously being a one off game there is one person who is an absolute gem at getting teams psyched for this type of game and that's Lyn Jones.

I have been puzzled by some of his selections this season but he knows how to get a team sorted for one off games that for sure.
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Edinburgh vs Dragons, ECC Semi Final Empty Re: Edinburgh vs Dragons, ECC Semi Final

Post by funnyExiledScot Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:45 pm

The Saint wrote:Isn't it funny that when a Welsh person dares to believe in their team they're dismissed as arrogant, or talking themselves up. I think we can win, if that makes me arrogant I really couldn't give a monkeys. I've also seen this competition dismissed as a mickey mouse competition, and that Dragons should be disbanded...both on this thread and what do you know, both by Scottish posters. Why didn't you whine about those posts? I don't get it... One rule for you and different for Wales fans?

Crying or Very sad

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