Is Nadal suffering with his game psychologically?

by temporary21 Sat 25 Apr 2015, 4:27 pm

First topic message reminder :

A few weeks ago during the Indian wells final a poster mentioned his displeasure at a lot of threads going off topic to discuss Nadals form issues and his psyche.
Its no surprise therefore given his dodgy clay season that this conversation has permeated almost every thread weve got, and is likely to continue to do so every time he loses right though to RG.
Since some of the implications, some people have found repeating themselves, or sometimes distasteful it seems a good idea to put this all into one thread, to give the other topics room to breathe.

With that said, heres the avenue to discuss Nadals current loss of form issues and whether its related to him psychologically, things like

. Has Nadal lost his competitive edge?
. Is he getting nervous on big points?
. Has he got a mental block in going for his big shots, like the FHDTL?
. Is he getting affected by the time violations rule in a way he wasnt previously?
. Has losing to people outside the top 100 dented his confidence?

and so on and so forth. I dont think it unreasonable to put these conversations into one place, so go nuts and do remember to rules on these things.

thumbsup

by Belovedluckyboy Sun 26 Apr 2015, 5:03 pm

So you think Rafa was defensive at USO2010? And he defended his way on grass to his wins at Wimbledon 2008 and 2010?

by LuvSports! Sun 26 Apr 2015, 5:08 pm

Maybe more offensive than his normal play maybe. But he still was standing 6ft plus behind the baseline and sticking to the tried and tested formula.
It just isn't his style to be that offensive.

by Belovedluckyboy Sun 26 Apr 2015, 5:19 pm

Youre talking about clay or grass/HCs? On clay and slow HCs like AO yes, not on grass at Wimbledon. He wasnt standing far behind the baseline at USO in 2010.

Actually he was offensive minded, watch his matches when he was younger in 2003/2004. His present defense/offence style was developed through the years starting from 2005. Hes more defensive now in 2015, lacking in confidence.

by **laverfan** Sun 26 Apr 2015, 5:44 pm

Haddie-nuff wrote:
laverfan wrote:The expectation that a player plays and keeps winning fails to recognize the shelf-life of an elite athlete. Nadal has been around for 10+ years in the ATP circuit (2005-2015).

To me, Borg is the role model in terms of desire, or lack thereof, and when to walk away, when the sport and the player have mutually benefited from and it is time to move on.

The constant analysis of Nadal's travails is tedious and fatiguing.

Djokovic is the new king. Long live the King! (... till his shelf life is over).

And let us keep hammering the nails into the coffin its less tedious and fatiguing

H-n,

Not trying to make you feel sad. Athletes, no matter how good they are, they eventually will walk away into history. Only the player himself can tell when the time is right for them.

by temporary21 Sun 26 Apr 2015, 6:00 pm

He can walk away with pride no matter what though. For Nadal Its more important for his life that he isnt permanently crippled to do what he wants to do post tennis. Id rather he go before that happens than win a few more slams that might not even change the conversation much.

by Haddie-nuff Sun 26 Apr 2015, 6:08 pm

temporary21 wrote:He can walk away with pride no matter what though. For Nadal Its more important for his life that he isnt permanently crippled to do what he wants to do post tennis. Id rather he go before that happens than win a few more slams that might not even change the conversation much.

It was a point I was lamely trying to make earlier. Nobody knows what medical advice he has been given. He cannot as every year passes expect to do what Roger has done. His body will not allow the continuous punishment and his physicality will, if not already, become less. He is incapable, imo, of changing his game enough to compensate for his lack of athleticism, he knows no other way of playing. He is in denial and so are many of his fans. I would urge him to give up before long. He has a bright future waiting for him.

by temporary21 Sun 26 Apr 2015, 7:38 pm

Fair enough LS, lets all keep to topic too, if the conversation isnt for you, then move on to another one

by Jahu Sun 26 Apr 2015, 8:35 pm

tempo, easy with the sword, you see that I took her mind of Nadal for a few minutes, think I deserve some credit Wink

by temporary21 Sun 26 Apr 2015, 8:48 pm

If you keep sending personal attacks to a poster and are off topic, youll be penalised under the appropriate rule. You both need to stop winding each other up, this is the last time ill be nice about this.

by bogbrush Sun 26 Apr 2015, 11:44 pm

temporary21 wrote:He can walk away with pride no matter what though. For Nadal Its more important for his life that he isnt permanently crippled to do what he wants to do post tennis. Id rather he go before that happens than win a few more slams that might not even change the conversation much.

Bit dramatic this. He wouldn't be playing with anything resembling such advice.

by Belovedluckyboy Mon 27 Apr 2015, 4:45 am

Why so much doom and gloom? Rafa played a lousy match and lost, but he played five other good matches on clay and won four of those, lost one to the top form no.1 player. He's still figuring his way around, stamina not there yet, mentally not there yet and still getting used to the racket. As he gets more match plays he'll get better in controlling the racket, stamina will get better and after winning some matches, his mentality will get more positive. The desire is there, the passion is there, unlike in 2011 clay season after narrowly beating Isner at R1 FO.

He doesn't seem to have any physical issue other than his stamina, no injury reported. He just needs to play more like the way he played at MC, minus those lapses when he's serving for sets or matches. Last year after doing badly at Barcelona, he still produced some good tennis at Madrid and reached the final to face Kei there. He wasn't stellar during the FO but was able to up his level from the QF and onwards to win the title in the end. He can always draw on such past experiences to help him overcome his problems now.

I'm positive that Rafa will do well by the time FO comes around and over B05 he can have time to figure out his opponent and makes adjustments to his game plan during matches. As long as the desire is there, he'll fight all the way to win.

by Belovedluckyboy Mon 27 Apr 2015, 5:05 am

I don't think not winning at the FO this time will be the end of Rafa. I'm sure he knows sooner or later, he has to lose to someone as he gets older or when he declines. I do notice that Rafa runs more than gliding these days on clay. He was gliding and sliding into position so quickly in the past, the control was perfect that he would get to the ball on time. I suspect his knee issues do not allow him to slide well and as a result he seems to be slower even on clay these days. He's still quick on clay by any standard, just watch his FO QF match last year vs Ferrer for example, still it couldn't compare to the sliding and gliding Rafa of the past. Rafa relies heavily on his footwork especially when covering his BH corner to his a FHDTL shot, a little bit slower and it makes quite a difference to his game, he playing so defensively from so far behind the baseline makes things worse.

I hope to see Rafa lifting the FO trophy again this year to make it to 10, if not I hope he's strong enough to concentrate on grass and the HCs. On grass and on the HCs, Rafa tend to play more aggressively as he knows defense won't work well on grass and fast HCs. Who knows, maybe Rafa ends up doing better on grass and HCs than on clay from now on, when he allows the more aggressive Rafa to appear. Fingers crossed...

by Matchpoint Mon 27 Apr 2015, 7:37 am

Belovedluckyboy wrote:Why so much doom and gloom? Rafa played a lousy match and lost, but he played five other good matches on clay and won four of those, lost one to the top form no.1 player.

You got a point there. Nadal is fine. He's just getting old. What's the big deal? Happened to all past tennis greats. It's his fans who are "suffering with his game psychologically." My sympathy.

I'm amongst those who don't believe Nadal has hit rock bottom until he actually loses RG. Whistle

by Matchpoint Mon 27 Apr 2015, 7:41 am

temp: Sorry MP

by Jahu Mon 27 Apr 2015, 8:12 am

Yeah, tempo has become too rough and strict.

Is he a Nadal fan? As he protects HN so much.

Also since 2011, I have more been banned than have posts deleted.

Tempo needs some training from JHM and LF, he has been dropped into factory line with no training Laugh

by LuvSports! Mon 27 Apr 2015, 10:25 am

Belovedluckyboy wrote:Why so much doom and gloom? Rafa played a lousy match and lost, but he played five other good matches on clay and won four of those, lost one to the top form no.1 player. He's still figuring his way around, stamina not there yet, mentally not there yet and still getting used to the racket. As he gets more match plays he'll get better in controlling the racket, stamina will get better and after winning some matches, his mentality will get more positive. The desire is there, the passion is there, unlike in 2011 clay season after narrowly beating Isner at R1 FO.

He doesn't seem to have any physical issue other than his stamina, no injury reported. He just needs to play more like the way he played at MC, minus those lapses when he's serving for sets or matches. Last year after doing badly at Barcelona, he still produced some good tennis at Madrid and reached the final to face Kei there. He wasn't stellar during the FO but was able to up his level from the QF and onwards to win the title in the end. He can always draw on such past experiences to help him overcome his problems now.

I'm positive that Rafa will do well by the time FO comes around and over B05 he can have time to figure out his opponent and makes adjustments to his game plan during matches. As long as the desire is there, he'll fight all the way to win.

That was greatly down to Babolat going rogue and using the wrong balls for the FO, as they were a lot faster than expected and itn took longer for Rafa to adapt.

by temporary21 Mon 27 Apr 2015, 10:28 am

I have only deleted one post, I split jahu and haddies newest spat for obvious reasons. I think someone else deleted the others mp...
edit: Mp's post was inbetween the spat, and was split with them by accident. Looking to restore it now

by Silver Mon 27 Apr 2015, 1:31 pm

Jahu wrote:Yeah, tempo has become too rough and strict.

Is he a Nadal fan? As he protects HN so much.

Also since 2011, I have more been banned than have posts deleted.

Tempo needs some training from JHM and LF, he has been dropped into factory line with no training

It's because of the previous argument that drove Haddie away from the boards last year. I believe it's also part of the reason he became a mod, so some heavy bias is to be expected, I suppose.

I 100% agree with your last sentence. Nothing personal Falzy.

by CaledonianCraig Mon 27 Apr 2015, 1:39 pm

At the end of the day if people cannot discuss serious threads in a sensible manner making pertinent points about the subject matter rather than cheap pot shots at posters then I say don't bother. But that is me. And I am not speaking about Falzy and what came after but what went on before....just to clarify.

by temporary21 Mon 27 Apr 2015, 1:44 pm

Then take it to PM. Supposed bias or not, personal attacks are against the rules... full stop, and it keeps happening, more than that, no one is being stopped from talking bout anything non offensive here, literally the only thing I've asked is to keep whats gonna be a hot topic this summer to one place.

For assurance of mind, time violations are of course a perfectly good thing to discuss, Nadal breaks them a lot, if you are to say something along the lines that someone is faking an illness to take this advantage, that is your opinion, but personal view aside, be very careful how you say it, or were in hot water.

by Jahu Mon 27 Apr 2015, 1:46 pm

CC, yes cause HN is your secret friend, huhuh.

Get real, a little poke and fun, some thread derail wont kill.anyone

only because HN and some others take their beloved players so seriously, now we have to talk their private life and how players feel inside them?

Chill papi.

by Jahu Mon 27 Apr 2015, 1:52 pm

Temp, where was the personal attack?

HN is capable of returning the favour in a quality way, so all good and no hard feelings.

Relax a little, dont be like a Prince who has never heard or been subject to a little poke, uff an attack here, ohh a word here, omg Panick button, save the forum, or we all go to hell.

PM is for flirting not fighting Smile

by CaledonianCraig Mon 27 Apr 2015, 2:01 pm

Jahu wrote:CC, yes cause HN is your secret friend, huhuh.

Get real, a little poke and fun, some thread derail wont kill.anyone

only because HN and some others take their beloved players so seriously, now we have to talk their private life and how players feel inside them?

Chill papi.

And this proves my point.

by Jahu Mon 27 Apr 2015, 2:07 pm

Silver, so a mod to protect users?

Hhahaha, happy new year buddy Wink

by Belovedluckyboy Tue 28 Apr 2015, 5:29 am

Watching some highlights of Rafa vs Kei at Miami 2012, Rafa was definitely more aggressive back then, not even playing far behind the baseline, he was definitively more aggressive in 2013 right up to AO2014. It's a pity that back injury and then wrist injury followed by appendicitis had derailed his 2014 season, right now he's playing way to defensively and had/has to start willing himself to be more aggressive again.

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