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2 English clubs in the Pro 12??

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Post by Chunky Norwich Sun 03 May 2015, 11:50 am

First topic message reminder :

Being reported today that London Scottish and London Welsh are being lined up to play in the pro12.....if the Italian teams don't pay money owed to the league.

Fantastic news that English teams are already touted as playing in what could be an early British and Irish League. Even if it doesn't happen, these increasingly frequent bits and bobs are only the beginning of what is to come.

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Post by SecretFly Thu 07 May 2015, 1:15 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Within an hours travels I would think anyway. That's why I asked if the alleged two 5* hotels are for corporate or for the teams? I can understand the requirement for corporate purposes, but not for the teams. 4* hotels would do just as well.

The All Blacks and most other sports teams that have ever visited Wales certainly seem to think so.

So you wonder why this extra special red carpet is insisted on for the Pro12 teams. Maybe it's because it's the best league in the world.

Maybe Glasgow said they wouldn't settle for less?
Maybe the Scots are the hidden Prima Donnas in all this?
Maybe the guys who didn't bid this time want to see someone fail before they offer better proposals next time with an "I told you so" smile on their faces?

All this wondering and chin scratching and nobody finding out 'answers' about who the Hierarchy are who do all this secret deciding over the heads of querying Osprey fans.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Thu 07 May 2015, 1:16 pm

Munchkin wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Within an hours travels I would think anyway. That's why I asked if the alleged two 5* hotels are for corporate or for the teams? I can understand the requirement for corporate purposes, but not for the teams. 4* hotels would do just as well.

The All Blacks and most other sports teams that have ever visited Wales certainly seem to think so.

So you wonder why this extra special red carpet is insisted on for the Pro12 teams. Maybe it's because it's the best league in the world.

I don't know, but I think if there is a requirement of two 5* hotels then it will be for corporate. Have to keep them sweet.

That is not what the Ospreys have said. I'm pretty much sure we have been through this at least 6 times now.

The next bit is where you or one of your compadres asks for a copy of the official criteria.

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Post by Notch Thu 07 May 2015, 1:17 pm

Sin é wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:Is the Cardiff City Stadium "within it's own Union's jurisdiction" ?

Similarly, perhaps that's why rugby park, Kilmarnock was not chosen?

I'd imagine what they mean there is that there is a good chance of plenty of local support - in a game of Ospreys v Ulster in Aberdeen, would Glasgow fans go to it?

Lets not forget that the final has to make money to a) pay at least the cost of the teams involved and b) provide some money for prizemoney, payment of officials etc.

Much more obvious explanation that it's within the country that union is responsible for rugby in i.e. No SRU bidding to host games in England etc.

Obviously local support will be a key factor in the decision.
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Post by SecretFly Thu 07 May 2015, 1:21 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:

That is not what the Ospreys have said. I'm pretty much sure we have been through this at least 6 times now.

The next bit is where you or one of your compadres asks for a copy of the official criteria.

Did the Ospreys fans take time to ask the Pro12 gentleman just who specifically voted for Christmas when the criteria were being formed? Did they ask who abstained? Or did they ask which Regions or Clubs or Union representatives walked out in protest?




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Post by Chunky Norwich Thu 07 May 2015, 1:22 pm

SecretFly wrote:

Did the Ospreys fans take time to ask the Pro12 gentleman just who specifically voted for Christmas when the criteria were being formed?  Did they ask who abstained? Or did they ask which Regions or Clubs or Union representatives walked out in protest?
 

Email them.

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Post by SecretFly Thu 07 May 2015, 1:26 pm

No, you know them - it seems - you certainly think they're all ultra Honest and Respectable chaps (unlike the Pro12 blazers - how similar all this is to the Euro debate)
No you email them and ask them.  Anything they say will be the truth.  I'd guess they never asked because it probably wasn't part of their agenda to find out that their own Region voted for the criteria after putting down their reservations about the specifics... that other regions voted for it, that the WRU voted for it?

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Post by Chunky Norwich Thu 07 May 2015, 1:31 pm

SecretFly wrote:No, you know them - it seems - you certainly think they're all ultra Honest and Respectable chaps (unlike the Pro12 blazers - how similar all this is to the Euro debate)
No you email them and ask them.  Anything they say will be the truth.  I'd guess they never asked because it probably wasn't part of their agenda to find out that their own Region voted for the criteria after putting down their reservations about the specifics... that other regions voted for it, that the WRU voted for it?

With the kindest of respects, I think you have serious mental health issues.

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Post by Pot Hale Thu 07 May 2015, 1:32 pm

Munchkin wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Within an hours travels I would think anyway. That's why I asked if the alleged two 5* hotels are for corporate or for the teams? I can understand the requirement for corporate purposes, but not for the teams. 4* hotels would do just as well.

The All Blacks and most other sports teams that have ever visited Wales certainly seem to think so.

So you wonder why this extra special red carpet is insisted on for the Pro12 teams. Maybe it's because it's the best league in the world.

I don't know, but I think if there is a requirement of two 5* hotels then it will be for corporate. Have to keep them sweet.

No - the Pro12 said the two hotels were for the two finalists. And plenty of teams have used top class hotels that are a travel distance from the stadium they're playing in. This use of the phrase that the hotels must be in the vicinity of the stadium is pure conjecture. If I was putting together a bid to host the event, the proximity of the hotels would not be high on my agenda for meeting the criteria. And, as far as I'm aware, none of the clubs have said anything that indicates that was the reason for not bidding - complete red herring.

The two key criteria for any of the clubs to consider were the stadium size and the £110k financial commitment - one is linked to the other. I also don't see anything from Pro12 that says national stadia were excluded from being part of any bid for this year's event.
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Post by Guest Thu 07 May 2015, 1:38 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Within an hours travels I would think anyway. That's why I asked if the alleged two 5* hotels are for corporate or for the teams? I can understand the requirement for corporate purposes, but not for the teams. 4* hotels would do just as well.

The All Blacks and most other sports teams that have ever visited Wales certainly seem to think so.

So you wonder why this extra special red carpet is insisted on for the Pro12 teams. Maybe it's because it's the best league in the world.

I don't know, but I think if there is a requirement of two 5* hotels then it will be for corporate. Have to keep them sweet.

That is not what the Ospreys have said. I'm pretty much sure we have been through this at least 6 times now.

The next bit is where you or one of your compadres asks for a copy of the official criteria.


This is what the Ospreys supporter asked Pro12:

Q: What was the set criteria for placing a tender?

A: Other than the stadium size and certain logistical & local cost guarantees, bidding teams had the opportunity to be as imaginative as they like.

And this is what an Ospreys supporter commented (including is the Ospreys explanation as to why they didn't enter a bid):

"There were many things to take into account in regards to the tenders. A financial commitment in excess of £100,000 by the host stadium/team; two 5 star hotels for the two finalists and the backing by city authorities were just some of the stipulations for tender. We were advised that several clubs did not submit tenders including the Ospreys.

In regards to the advisement that the Ospreys had not tendered for the final, we felt it was important to speak to them about this and get their views as to why no tender was submitted:

Ospreys have advised us they were against the proposal for a change from highest placed team has home advantage to a neutral venue as they felt that the competition was not yet at that stage.

Given their stance on the proposal, they then felt it would be hypocritical to consider making a bid to stage the final, regardless of the team’s positive start to the season as this would put our team in a position where we could lose the home final ‘advantage’.

The financial commitment necessary to host the final is substantial. Whilst Ospreys financial performance has improved, and are now able to make calculated gambles, they don’t consider that they are in a position to take the kind of risk required. It’s not in the best interests of the business to do so.

Any bid for a final at the Liberty would have to be made in conjunction with the Stadium Management Company and Swansea Council. Ospreys advised they will assess the success or not of this year before considering whether it is in the Ospreys interest or not for future years to make a joint bid."

So as you can clearly see, There has been no official claim to a requirement of two 5* hotels. The Ospreys supporter does make a claim of two 5* hotels required for the two finalists, but without providing a source for that information. If it's true that the individual is correct in that two 5* hotels are a requirement, it could also be true that whoever their source is has told them that two 5* hotels are required and without further explanation as to who they are required for. In other words, the two 5* hotels required for the two finalists may be an assumption.

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Post by Guest Thu 07 May 2015, 1:40 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Within an hours travels I would think anyway. That's why I asked if the alleged two 5* hotels are for corporate or for the teams? I can understand the requirement for corporate purposes, but not for the teams. 4* hotels would do just as well.

The All Blacks and most other sports teams that have ever visited Wales certainly seem to think so.

So you wonder why this extra special red carpet is insisted on for the Pro12 teams. Maybe it's because it's the best league in the world.

I don't know, but I think if there is a requirement of two 5* hotels then it will be for corporate. Have to keep them sweet.

No - the Pro12 said the two hotels were for the two finalists.  And plenty of teams have used top class hotels that are a travel distance from the stadium they're playing in.   This use of the phrase that the hotels must be in the vicinity of the stadium is pure conjecture.   If I was putting together a bid to host the event, the proximity of the hotels would not be high on my agenda for meeting the criteria.  And, as far as I'm aware, none of the clubs have said anything that indicates that was the reason for not bidding - complete red herring.

The two key criteria for any of the clubs to consider were the stadium size and the £110k financial commitment - one is linked to the other.   I also don't see anything from Pro12 that says national stadia were excluded from being part of any bid for this year's event.  

Where do you see the Pro 12 saying that?

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Post by Chunky Norwich Thu 07 May 2015, 1:41 pm

This thread = Valiant straw clutching by the apologists for a dying competition.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 07 May 2015, 1:46 pm

You better work harder on keeping it alive then or Welsh rugby is going under!

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Post by Chunky Norwich Thu 07 May 2015, 1:52 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:You better work harder on keeping it alive then or Welsh rugby is going under!

Welsh pro rugby will definitely go under if it's clubs continue in the pro12. Unfortunately it may drag others with it.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 07 May 2015, 1:58 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:You better work harder on keeping it alive then or Welsh rugby is going under!

Welsh pro rugby will definitely go under if it's clubs continue in the pro12. Unfortunately it may drag others with it.

The Pro 12 is the only way Welsh Pro rugby can survive, you ain't going to be able to do it on your own.

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Post by Pot Hale Thu 07 May 2015, 2:07 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:This thread = Valiant straw clutching by the apologists for a dying competition.

You haven't forgotten that you started the thread, Chunky? With an OP saying that it was a positive sign regarding LW and LS possibly joining the Pro12. Although it contains an inaccurate statement that LW and LS could possibly join, if the Italian clubs don't settle their finances.
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Post by Chunky Norwich Thu 07 May 2015, 2:24 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:You better work harder on keeping it alive then or Welsh rugby is going under!

Welsh pro rugby will definitely go under if it's clubs continue in the pro12. Unfortunately it may drag others with it.

The Pro 12 is the only way Welsh Pro rugby can survive, you ain't going to be able to do it on your own.

No. Pro12 will be the death of us all. I warned you.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Thu 07 May 2015, 2:24 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:This thread = Valiant straw clutching by the apologists for a dying competition.

You haven't forgotten that you started the thread, Chunky?  With an OP saying that it was a positive sign regarding LW and LS possibly joining the Pro12.    Although it contains an inaccurate statement that LW and LS could possibly join, if the Italian clubs don't settle their finances.  

I'd say the reaction to the thread from certain quarters is all you need to know.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 07 May 2015, 2:26 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:You better work harder on keeping it alive then or Welsh rugby is going under!

Welsh pro rugby will definitely go under if it's clubs continue in the pro12. Unfortunately it may drag others with it.

The Pro 12 is the only way Welsh Pro rugby can survive, you ain't going to be able to do it on your own.

No. Pro12 will be the death of us all. I warned you.

I can't see it myself. Even if the Pro 12 failed and went under I think Leinster and Munster may interest the money men of the Aviva Prem. The rest would probably go back to being amateur.

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Post by Sin é Thu 07 May 2015, 2:28 pm

Chunky - are Guinness doing promotions in Wales using Welsh players at the moment (or at any time during the season?)

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 07 May 2015, 2:34 pm

Sin é wrote:Chunky - are Guinness doing promotions in Wales using Welsh players at the moment (or at any time during the season?)


I haven't seen anything like this. Does it happen in Ireland ? It might explain a few things. Whistle

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Post by Chunky Norwich Thu 07 May 2015, 2:45 pm

Sin é wrote:Chunky - are Guinness doing promotions in Wales using Welsh players at the moment (or at any time during the season?)


No idea. I haven't seen it if they are. I haven't seen any pro12 marketing if I'm honest. The BBC does a woeful job of it. Perhaps they can't be bothered.

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 07 May 2015, 2:49 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Sin é wrote:Chunky - are Guinness doing promotions in Wales using Welsh players at the moment (or at any time during the season?)


No idea. I haven't seen it if they are. I haven't seen any pro12 marketing if I'm honest. The BBC does a woeful job of it. Perhaps they can't be bothered.

Perhaps Guinness are only interested in rugby in Ireland, perhaps thats why the Pro12 is geared to favour the Irish provinces, perhaps there is more to this than we care to admit. chin

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Post by Pot Hale Thu 07 May 2015, 2:55 pm

Just re-reading this Ospreys Supporters summary of their conversation with Ospreys RFC:

"There were many things to take into account in regards to the tenders. A financial commitment in excess of £100,000 by the host stadium/team; two 5 star hotels for the two finalists and the backing by city authorities were just some of the stipulations for tender. We were advised that several clubs did not submit tenders including the Ospreys."

Would it be fair to infer from that several clubs did submit tenders? More than just Glasgow and Ulster?
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Post by Chunky Norwich Thu 07 May 2015, 3:01 pm

Pot Hale wrote:Just re-reading this Ospreys Supporters summary of their conversation with Ospreys RFC:

"There were many things to take into account in regards to the tenders. A financial commitment in excess of £100,000 by the host stadium/team; two 5 star hotels for the two finalists and the backing by city authorities were just some of the stipulations for tender. We were advised that several clubs did not submit tenders including the Ospreys."

Would it be fair to infer from that several clubs did submit tenders?  More than just Glasgow and Ulster?

"Ulster Rugby Chief Executive, Shane Logan, was delighted that ‘Team Belfast’ won the right to host the event, in what was a very competitive process: “All twelve of the PRO12 clubs were invited to tender for this season’s final. The PRO12 organisers gave us about six weeks to respond and tenders closed just after Christmas. There were several expressions of interest and in the end it was between Glasgow and ourselves. Glasgow, as you would expect from a city that has hosted the Commonwealth Games, put together what was an extremely impressive case, but we were very pleased to win the bid.”"

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Post by Irish Londoner Thu 07 May 2015, 3:15 pm

Can we please stop worrying about who's got the best 5* hotels, the barrier for applications to host the final is much more likely to be the need to pony up £100K + to host it, in that scenario then having it in Ireland or Scotland makes it a no brainer in this season at least given that assuming the play-offs follow league position the final is likely to be a Scotland - Ireland event.
Next season, have it at the Liberty by all means or the Millenium or Milan or anywhere else that wants it.

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Post by Sin é Thu 07 May 2015, 3:35 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Sin é wrote:Chunky - are Guinness doing promotions in Wales using Welsh players at the moment (or at any time during the season?)


I haven't seen anything like this. Does it happen in Ireland ? It might explain a few things. Whistle

Yes.

Players Attend Guinness Rugby Roadshow
Munster's Peter O'Mahony, Billy Holland and Duncan Williams last night took part in a Guinness Rugby Roadshow Q&A event at O'Sullivans Bar in Douglas, Cork.

http://www.munsterrugby.ie/news/20568.php#.VUt3eWbqLOo

As you see, you have to earn everything you get. The sooner you guys start getting the finger out, the better.
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Post by Sin é Thu 07 May 2015, 3:36 pm

Irish Londoner wrote:Can we please stop worrying about who's got the best 5* hotels, the barrier for applications to host the final is much more likely to be the need to pony up £100K + to host it, in that scenario then having it in Ireland or Scotland makes it a no brainer in this season at least given that assuming the play-offs follow league position the final is likely to be a Scotland - Ireland event.
Next season, have it at the Liberty by all means or the Millenium or Milan or anywhere else that wants it.

Exactly. England had to pony up for the World Cup, RFU had to pony up for Champs Cup final in Twickers, Limerick had to pony up 70K to host a 7s tourament in Thomond Park last summer.

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Post by Notch Thu 07 May 2015, 3:41 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
SecretFly wrote:No, you know them - it seems - you certainly think they're all ultra Honest and Respectable chaps (unlike the Pro12 blazers - how similar all this is to the Euro debate)
No you email them and ask them.  Anything they say will be the truth.  I'd guess they never asked because it probably wasn't part of their agenda to find out that their own Region voted for the criteria after putting down their reservations about the specifics... that other regions voted for it, that the WRU voted for it?

With the kindest of respects, I think you have serious mental health issues.

That is an inappropriate comment and putting with the kindest respects before it does not ameliorate it- understand there are passionate disagreements but lets not slide to insulting posts. Any further posts in this vein from either side may be removed.
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Post by Chunky Norwich Thu 07 May 2015, 3:41 pm

Sin é wrote:

As you see, you have to earn everything you get..

Apart from tv money given by the Welsh of course
And the pro 12 final
And Irish TMOs
And the fixtures played when you want.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Thu 07 May 2015, 3:42 pm

Notch wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
SecretFly wrote:No, you know them - it seems - you certainly think they're all ultra Honest and Respectable chaps (unlike the Pro12 blazers - how similar all this is to the Euro debate)
No you email them and ask them.  Anything they say will be the truth.  I'd guess they never asked because it probably wasn't part of their agenda to find out that their own Region voted for the criteria after putting down their reservations about the specifics... that other regions voted for it, that the WRU voted for it?

With the kindest of respects, I think you have serious mental health issues.

That is an inappropriate comment and putting with the kindest respects before it does not ameliorate it- understand there are passionate disagreements but lets not slide to insulting posts. Any further posts in this vein from either side may be removed.

Ok. Just a bit worried about him/her that's all.

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Post by lostinwales Thu 07 May 2015, 4:15 pm

The only thing you have to worry about with SecretFly is the state of his fingers and keyboard

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Post by Notch Thu 07 May 2015, 4:20 pm

lostinwales wrote:The only thing you have to worry about with SecretFly is the state of his fingers and keyboard

Probably true!
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Post by Sin é Thu 07 May 2015, 4:29 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Sin é wrote:

As you see, you have to earn everything you get..

Apart from tv money given by the Welsh of course
And the pro 12 final
And Irish TMOs
And the fixtures played when you want.

I'd imagine a fair proportion of the TV money come from the English public as well then, if you are going on who subscribes what money. Not our fault that you guys prefer to watch the games from the couch. Very poor marketing from the Welsh Regions.

Ulster/Belfast are ponying up 100K to have it.
Leighton Hodges
I don't know about that. When would you prefer to have your games played? Whats stopping them from being on then?
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Post by LordDowlais Thu 07 May 2015, 4:30 pm

Sin é wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Sin é wrote:Chunky - are Guinness doing promotions in Wales using Welsh players at the moment (or at any time during the season?)


I haven't seen anything like this. Does it happen in Ireland ? It might explain a few things. Whistle

Yes.

Players Attend Guinness Rugby Roadshow
Munster's Peter O'Mahony, Billy Holland and Duncan Williams last night took part in a Guinness Rugby Roadshow Q&A event at O'Sullivans Bar in Douglas, Cork.

http://www.munsterrugby.ie/news/20568.php#.VUt3eWbqLOo

As you see, you have to earn everything you get. The sooner you guys start getting the finger out, the better.


Ah,so I have been right all along, the league is geared to suit the Irish provinces, because Guinness use the Irish players to peddle their product to the Irish masses, keep Guinness happy, keep the status quo.

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Post by Guest Thu 07 May 2015, 4:31 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Sin é wrote:

As you see, you have to earn everything you get..

Apart from tv money given by the Welsh of course
And the pro 12 final
And Irish TMOs
And the fixtures played when you want.

I think the Regions should keep the BBCW + S4C money, just to stop you moaning. I worked out it would give you about £375k a year more per Region than the rest of us. Keep it, but if the TV revenue for the rest of the clubs overtake that of the Regions, as it may well do, forget about sharing the pot.

This is the first year that Pro 12 have decided to allow clubs to bid for hosting the final, and the only reason they did was because of the schedule. That may well change next year. On top of that none of the Regions wanted to enter a bid, but are waiting to see how this year goes.

The Irish TMO's are as liable to make mistakes as the Welsh/Scottish/Italian TMO's, and believe me they all make mistakes.

As for the fixtures. Blame your own broadcaster for that. S4C specifically. And while you're at it, blame your Regions, because your Regions don't seem to be doing anything about having that changed.
Lastly, we don't get the fixtures when we want. That's nonsense. We get the fixtures when our broadcasters tell us we get them you tin hatted conspiracy nut.

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 07 May 2015, 4:33 pm

Munchkin wrote:you tin hatted conspiracy nut.

Come on, insults ? Are you for real ? Chunky just had a red letter warning for this sort of thing.

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Post by Guest Thu 07 May 2015, 4:37 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:you tin hatted conspiracy nut.

Come on, insults ? Are you for real ? Chunky just had a red letter warning for this sort of thing.

Stick it where the sun don't shine. You're another conspiracy nut Very Happy

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 07 May 2015, 4:38 pm

Munchkin wrote:I worked out it would give you about £375k a year more per Region

And there's me thinking the Welsh regions brought nothing to the party, what with our low attendances and our fighting. So that is quite a few million we are bringing to the league from our armchair supporters alone. You might have the bums on seats fans, but we have the armchair fans, never under estimate the power of TV. I knew we brought the most to this league through the media. Very Happy

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 07 May 2015, 4:42 pm

Munchkin wrote:Stick it where the sun don't shine. You're another conspiracy nut

I'm a conspiracy nut ? Well, I do not see Guinness over here using Welsh players to peddle their products to the Welsh masses, that only happens in Ireland, keep the sponsors happy, keep the status quo. That is my new slogan for the Irishcentric Guinness Pro12. It's more like Guinness Pro Ireland. Laugh

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Post by Guest Thu 07 May 2015, 4:47 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:I worked out it would give you about £375k a year more per Region

And there's me thinking the Welsh regions brought nothing to the party, what with our low attendances and our fighting. So that is quite a few million we are bringing to the league from our armchair supporters alone. You might have the bums on seats fans, but we have the armchair fans, never under estimate the power of TV. I knew we brought the most to this league through the media. Very Happy

Who exactly is it that said the Welsh don't bring anything? The Regions obviously do. Ospreys has been challenging for the top spot for some time now, and Scarlets are in a dog fight for a top 6 finish. They could be doing better but for the infighting/Regions v WRU war, which not only damaged the Welsh rugby, but also the Pro12. There are signs that this is changing, hopefully so, and a brighter future ahead for welsh rugby.

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Post by Notch Thu 07 May 2015, 4:49 pm

Munchkin wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:you tin hatted conspiracy nut.

Come on, insults ? Are you for real ? Chunky just had a red letter warning for this sort of thing.

Stick it where the sun don't shine. You're another conspiracy nut Very Happy

Ah here, come on now! I will lock the thread if it goes down to this level. I know I myself have become frustrated with disagreements in the past too, but since this debate has been exhausted pretty much I don't see what purpose letting it continue will serve if it turns into name-calling. It's already totally off-topic.

If you want to talk about this at least let's try and be respectful no matter how ridiculous some opinions may seem. Otherwise, more about London Welsh and London Scottish.


Last edited by Notch on Thu 07 May 2015, 4:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Guest Thu 07 May 2015, 4:50 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:Stick it where the sun don't shine. You're another conspiracy nut

I'm a conspiracy nut ? Well, I do not see Guinness over here using Welsh players to peddle their products to the Welsh masses, that only happens in Ireland, keep the sponsors happy, keep the status quo. That is my new slogan for the Irishcentric Guinness Pro12. It's more like Guinness Pro Ireland. Laugh

Conspiracy nut Very Happy

Maybe if they Regions worked harder at marketing their product, they too could host Guinness sponsored question and answer nights in pubs....


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Post by Pot Hale Thu 07 May 2015, 4:50 pm

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:Just re-reading this Ospreys Supporters summary of their conversation with Ospreys RFC:

"There were many things to take into account in regards to the tenders. A financial commitment in excess of £100,000 by the host stadium/team; two 5 star hotels for the two finalists and the backing by city authorities were just some of the stipulations for tender. We were advised that several clubs did not submit tenders including the Ospreys."

Would it be fair to infer from that several clubs did submit tenders?  More than just Glasgow and Ulster?

"Ulster Rugby Chief Executive, Shane Logan, was delighted that ‘Team Belfast’ won the right to host the event, in what was a very competitive process: “All twelve of the PRO12 clubs were invited to tender for this season’s final. The PRO12 organisers gave us about six weeks to respond and tenders closed just after Christmas. There were several expressions of interest and in the end it was between Glasgow and ourselves. Glasgow, as you would expect from a city that has hosted the Commonwealth Games, put together what was an extremely impressive case, but we were very pleased to win the bid.”"

That's what I thought. Well it'll be interesting to see the responses from the regions and Edinburgh about their views on the change and whether they submitted a bid or not.

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Post by Guest Thu 07 May 2015, 4:52 pm

Notch wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:you tin hatted conspiracy nut.

Come on, insults ? Are you for real ? Chunky just had a red letter warning for this sort of thing.

Stick it where the sun don't shine. You're another conspiracy nut Very Happy

Come on, leave it out. I will lock the thread if it goes down to this level. I know I myself have become frustrated with disagreements in the past too, but since this debate has been exhausted pretty much I don't see what purpose letting it continue will serve if it turns into name-calling. It's already totally off-topic.

If you want to talk about this at least let's try and be respectful. Otherwise, more about London Welsh and London Scottish.

It was obviously said in jest, Notch, and calling someone a conspiracy nut is hardly a terrible insult, especially when it's true. I take your point though and will cease commenting on this thread.

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 07 May 2015, 5:00 pm

Munchkin wrote:Maybe if they Regions worked harder at marketing their product, they too could host Guinness sponsored question and answer nights in pubs....

We do just fine thanks, and you should be thanking us for the monies we subsidise you through our media deals. Without our armchair fans, the tv deals would not be as profitable, so you would be much poorer without the BBC Wales and S4C viewers tuning in.

KEEP THE SPONSORS HAPPY, KEEP THE STATUS QUO. 2 English clubs in the Pro 12?? - Page 11 3933776953 2 English clubs in the Pro 12?? - Page 11 3933776953 2 English clubs in the Pro 12?? - Page 11 3933776953 2 English clubs in the Pro 12?? - Page 11 3933776953

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Post by Guest Thu 07 May 2015, 5:07 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:Maybe if they Regions worked harder at marketing their product, they too could host Guinness sponsored question and answer nights in pubs....

We do just fine thanks, and you should be thanking us for the monies we subsidise you through our media deals. Without our armchair fans, the tv deals would not be as profitable, so you would be much poorer without the BBC Wales and S4C viewers tuning in.

KEEP THE SPONSORS HAPPY, KEEP THE STATUS QUO. 2 English clubs in the Pro 12?? - Page 11 3933776953 2 English clubs in the Pro 12?? - Page 11 3933776953 2 English clubs in the Pro 12?? - Page 11 3933776953 2 English clubs in the Pro 12?? - Page 11 3933776953

Ok, last comment. It wasn't the Regions that got the TV deals. You can thank Lewis for that. We wouldn't be much poorer without the Regions TV deal, and I believe the rest of the clubs will eventually overtake that of wales. I also think most of your TV money came from S4C? S4C lived off a government grant of £90m and from what I have read S4C is being taken over by BBC.....

Laters Very Happy

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Post by Exiledinborders Thu 07 May 2015, 5:14 pm

Pot Hale wrote:Just re-reading this Ospreys Supporters summary of their conversation with Ospreys RFC:

"There were many things to take into account in regards to the tenders. A financial commitment in excess of £100,000 by the host stadium/team; two 5 star hotels for the two finalists and the backing by city authorities were just some of the stipulations for tender. We were advised that several clubs did not submit tenders including the Ospreys."
Just a small point but why do two rugby teams need two five star hotels?

Until retirement I was a senior manager with a very large international company. Only if I was in a third world country where hotel standards were dodgy would I stay in a five star hotel. Wasting money on five star hotels and first class flights went out years ago in any well run organisation.

As for why they need two hotels, can they not be trusted to stay in the same hotel without fighting?

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Post by Notch Thu 07 May 2015, 5:14 pm

Munchkin wrote:It was obviously said in jest, Notch, and calling someone a conspiracy nut is hardly a terrible insult, especially when it's true. I take your point though and will cease commenting on this thread.

All true. But I've seen threads go like this before, once there is a deadlock between two sides who have a fundamental disagreement and all the rational arguments have been made, the irrational arguments come into play* Then the name calling. Then by that point, all the people engaging in earnest have either buggered off or are just shouting at each other.

*Well, to be fair, many of the argument were already pretty irrational in the first place.
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Post by offload Thu 07 May 2015, 5:28 pm

The conspiracy plot thickens. Guinness is owned by a UK FTSE 100 company headquartered in London, England.

Has this thread (after 11 pages of thought provoking discourse) at last come full circle and are we seeing an attempt by 2 English clubs to infiltrate the Pro 12 ??
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Post by Pot Hale Thu 07 May 2015, 6:29 pm

offload wrote:The conspiracy plot thickens. Guinness is owned by a UK FTSE 100 company headquartered in London, England.  

Has this thread (after 11 pages of thought provoking discourse) at last come full circle and are we seeing an attempt by 2 English clubs to infiltrate the Pro 12 ??

They're not even English clubs, they're affiliated to the Welsh and Scottish unions!! It's a conspiracy obviously.

Mind you if you sent a copy of this and other threads on the Pro12 to LW and LS, they might change their mind on wanting to get involved.

Hmmm..... now where's the cut and paste buttons again on this Remington?
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