England's Extended RWC Training Squad - Competition.

OK, ran one of these for the last Lions Tour. Around the 20th May (so after Round 22 of the AP, but before play-offs) Bomber names his RWC training squad. All you need to do is show you can think like him. The rules are simple:

1) Name a Training Squad in the most likely to be selected order
2) You have until Midnight on Sunday 17th May to make/amend your selection
3) You may amend your selection as often as you like, until that time.
4) Any posts changed after that time will be ignored
5) Winner is the poster who names the most players before listing someone not chosen.




Edit: I have read a suggestion that long term injured coming back from operations may be placed on a "standby list" until deemed fit should this happen they will be treated as if in the squad.

45 names is it?

As many as you want to put in - as soon as you get one wrong we stop counting.

Ah I understand.

LH:Vunipola,Marler,Corbisiero
Hooker: Hartley,Youngs,Webber
TH: Cole,Wilson,Brookes
Locks: Lawes,Launchbury,Attwood,Kruis,Parling,Itoje
Backrow:Haskell,Robshaw,Vunipola,Wood,Ksevic,Clark,Easter,Burgess,Morgan
Scrum half: Care,Youngs,Wigglesworth
Fly halves: Ford,Cipriani,Farrell
Centres:Slade,Burrell,Joseph,Barritt,Twelvetrees,Eastmond
Wingers:Watson,Nowell,Wade,May,Yarde,Ashton
Full Backs: Goode,Pennell Brown

Itoje,Burgess and Slade as bolters.

Going for a shock absentee of Twelvetrees.

but he has all the attributes of the perfect 12?

Make sure to include Hill and not Twelvetrees GF, make it easier for me!

Geordiefalcon you've convinced me - Ksevic in, Ewers out - for now.

Twelvetrees might have all the attributes but if he doesn't use them.....

Loose head: Joe Marler, Alex Corbisiero, Mako Vunipola
Hooker: Dylan Hartley, Tom Youngs, Luke Cowan-Dickie
Thighthead: Dan Cole, Davey Wilson, Kieran Brookes

Second Row: Joe Launchbury, Courtney Lawes, Geoff Parling, George Kruis

Blindside Flanker: James Haskell, Tom Wood,
Openside Flanker: Chris Robshaw, Calum Clark, Matt Kvesic

Number Eight: Billy Vunipola, Nick Easter, Ben Morgan [Depending on injury]

Scrum Half: Ben Youngs, Richard Wigglesworth
Fly Half: George Ford, Owen Farrell, Henry Slade [utility back]

Inside centre: Brad Barritt, Billy Twelvetrees
Outside Centre: Jon Joseph, Manu Tuilagi

Wing: Anthony Watson, Jack Nowell, Jonny May, Marland Yarde
Full back: Mike Brown, Alex Goode

I will also refine the team closer to the time.

Well from the initial few....people don't think there'll be any wild cards....possibly only Slade, Burgess.

Im assuming injuries dont count against you if after the cut off so...

Marler, Robshaw, Wood, M vunipola. B Vunipola, Ford, Farrell, Cole, Wilson, Hartley, B Youngs, T youngs, Lawes, Launchbury, Attwood, Easter, Morgan, Barritt, Joseph, Nowell, Watson, Brown, Twelvetrees, Goode. Wigglesworth,Care, Burgess, Haskell, Waldrom, Slade, Ashton, May, Parling, Kruis, Cipriani, George, Cowan-Dickie, Itoje,Eastmond, Wade, Dickson,Clark, Ewers, Myler.

Ill come when I remember the obvious ones missed out.

My entry may well contain the following, orders to be adjusted later:

Props: Marler, Vunipola, Corbisiero, Mullan, Cole, Wilson, Brookes, Thomas
Hookers: Hartley, Youngs, Webber, George
Second Row: Lawes, Launchbury, Parling, Attwood, Kruis, Slater
Back Row: Vunipola, Robshaw, Wood, Haskell, Morgan, Kvesic, Burgess, ANO

Scrum Halves: Youngs, Wigglesworth, Care, Dickson
Outside Halves: Ford, Farrell, Cipriani, Slade
Centers: Barritt, Joseph, Tuilagi, Twelvetrees, Burrell
Back 3: Brown, Nowell, Watson, May, Goode, Pennell, Yarde

Ford
Robshaw
Marler
Lawes
Launchbury
Brown
Cole
Wilson
YoungsB
Joseph
BillyV
MakoV
Hartley
YoungsT
Wilson
Parling
Wood
Farrell
Watson
Nowell
Haskell
Goode
Barritt
Wigglesworth
Care
Brookes
Corbisiero
Morgan (IL?)
Attwood
Kruis
36
Burrell
Eastmond
Slade
Burgess
Kvesic
Thomas
May
Webber
Cipriani
George
Mullan
Waldrom
Pennell
Yarde
Slater
Dickson

I'm going to start my list with a risk. Better to burn out than fade away:

1. Sam Burgess

Will add the rest when I've had time to think.

Right here goes. Will probably edit the order still:

BURGESS, Robshaw, Marler, Ford, Joseph, Hartley, Cole, Lawes, launchbury, Youngs (B), barritt, Watson, nowell, Brown, Farrell, youngs (T), Wilson, wood, Vunipola (B), may, parling, attwood, vunipola (M), care, wigglesworth, goode, kruis, Haskell, burrell, brookes, clark, corbisiero, Thomas, ashton, Twelvetrees, webber, cipriani, slade, Dickson, mullan, easter, slater, kvesic, wade, Pennell

He's a bit tall for loose head prop isn't he? I always thought it was a specialist position too.

Cumbrian wrote:He's a bit tall for loose head prop isn't he?  I always thought it was a specialist position too.  

My reading of the rules was that you're just meant to post a list of players in order or most-likely-to-be-selected, not sorted by position. Seems to have been lost on some though

Ah I see, I didn't read it that way. I assumed there would be a breakdown by position or else everybody list is going to start:

1. Chris Robshaw...

Cumbrian wrote:Ah I see, I didn't read it that way.  I assumed there would be a breakdown by position or else everybody list is going to start:

1. Chris Robshaw...

Except for thomh of course. Have to say when I re-order my list (which is what most are doing) I may instead start 1. George Ford

Taking this moderately seriously:
Robshaw
Lawes
Launchbury
Billy V
Hartley
Cole
Marler
Wood
Ben Youngs
Ford
Barritt
Joseph
Nowell
Watson
Brown
Dave Wilson
Ben Morgan
Manu Stupid boy
Farrell
Haskell
Parling
Attwood
Mako V
Tom Youngs
Alex Goode
Johnny May
36
Nick Easter
Wigglesworth
Burrell
Care
Cipriani
Clark
Kvesic
Corbisiero
Brookes
Kruis
Yarde
Slade
Burgess
Thomas
Eastmond
Ashton
Mullan
George

Everyone thinks burgess will be in….amazing, just totally illustrates the new broom attitude of English selection…a few decent games and he is RWC material. No doubt he will play 30 minutes, get found out and then disappear back into the centres for Bath before returning to league and Russell Crowe's bosom.

I see a lot are going for Manu Tualaghi. Will he even be fit enough by the time the RWC comes around? I would of thought the Eastmond might be a better choice at the moment.

With regards to scrum half, i would maybe try Joe Simpson. Is care back on form yet, have not seen him play much to be honest.

Gwlad wrote:Everyone thinks burgess will be in….amazing, just totally illustrates the new broom attitude of English selection…a few decent games and he is RWC material. No doubt he will play 30 minutes, get found out and then disappear back into the centres for Bath before returning to league and Russell Crowe's bosom.

People are picking him as a probable selection because Lancaster loves him, it's a 45 man squad so there's some room for experimentation, and he's actually been in good form. Doesn't meant anyone actually thinks he should be in the final word cup squad of 30, let alone the first choice team.

Gwlad wrote:Everyone thinks burgess will be in….amazing, just totally illustrates the new broom attitude of English selection…a few decent games and he is RWC material. No doubt he will play 30 minutes, get found out and then disappear back into the centres for Bath before returning to league and Russell Crowe's bosom.

The Welsh world cup squad thread hasn't seen any new posts since April 30, why don't you sod off there

Gwlad wrote:Everyone thinks burgess will be in….amazing, just totally illustrates the new broom attitude of English selection…a few decent games and he is RWC material. No doubt he will play 30 minutes, get found out and then disappear back into the centres for Bath before returning to league and Russell Crowe's bosom.

No they don't.

thomh wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Everyone thinks burgess will be in….amazing, just totally illustrates the new broom attitude of English selection…a few decent games and he is RWC material. No doubt he will play 30 minutes, get found out and then disappear back into the centres for Bath before returning to league and Russell Crowe's bosom.

People are picking him as a probable selection because Lancaster loves him, it's a 45 man squad so there's some room for experimentation, and he's actually been in good form. Doesn't meant anyone actually thinks he should be in the final word cup squad of 30, let alone the first choice team.

thomh

We know (as do the England coaches) that the issue with Burgess was never whether he is physically good enough, but whether he can exploit his demonstrated (in RL) abilities in RU, and whether his breakdown and set piece work can develop to a sufficient standard. From what I've seen and heard, his breakdown work is already of a pretty good standard and still improving. Set piece perhaps more of an issue, especially the line-out. However, he as a few months to focus on this, particularly working within the England setup, and he has shown signs of being a fast learner.

Still a long shot for the final squad of 30 or 31 (do we even know yet?), but I think there is some competition for the back-up 6 role behind Wood (Haskell having failed to nail this down in the 6Ns, Clark being largely untested at international level), and Burgess does offer the greater physicality that many posters here would like to see. One further consideration will be the balance of the squad - if Morgan gets back to fitness we will have 2 specialist 8s in the squad who don't cover other positions to any great extent, so will probably end up with an extra 2nd row and one fewer flanker (instead of using Easter as a back-up for both SR and 8), so the chance for Burgess to make the squad diminish.

dummy half agree with that.

England have got quite a few players who are either injured or struggling to find form like Morgan,Corbisiero,Farrell,Brown,Tuilagi,Care,Twelvetrees,Haskell.

This means that places are up for grabs in various positions.

It's funny that both Care and Farrell would have been likely WC starters after last year's 6 nations but both had a poor 12 months since then!

Morgan,Brown and Tuilagi are of course struggling for fitness.

Corbisiero seems not be as effective since the new scrummaging laws.

Robshaw, Marler, Mako, Tom Youngs, Hartley, Cole, Wilson, Lawes, Launchbury, Haskell, Billy V, Ben Youngs, Ford, Joseph, Nowell, Watson, Brown, Wood, Farrell, Attwood, Morgan, Goode, May, Wigglesworth, Brookes, Parling, Barritt, Corbisiero, Clark, Care,  Cipriani, Webber, Burrell, Kruis, Twelvetrees, Eastmond, Slade, Pennell, George, Thomas, Mullan, Burgess, Simpson, Itoje

Gwlad wrote:Everyone thinks burgess will be in….amazing, just totally illustrates the new broom attitude of English selection…a few decent games and he is RWC material. No doubt he will play 30 minutes, get found out and then disappear back into the centres for Bath before returning to league and Russell Crowe's bosom.

I doubt you're interested in a sensible answer to this, given your posting history on anything England-related, but it's sensible for us to expect Burgess to be included, and sensible for Lancaster to include him:

1) He's been training with England consistently since the start of the year. That alone suggests he will continue to be in the training squad
2) He's fit and in form
3) The switch to 6 has made a big difference to his impact. He is more involved in the game and carries better than his main rivals for the shirt
4) He has stopped making RL-style tackles and giving away penalties because of it
5) He isn't conceding many penalties at the breakdown
6) A player who can make 60+ interventions in an 80 minute game (which he did in RL) will raise the bar in terms of physical conditioning, which is likely to benefit the entire squad
7) He is clearly hugely committed and willing to learn. That adds energy to a squad.

There's only upside for Lancaster in including him in the training squad. He's not taking a place that could go to someone else, because there's no hard limit on the size of the squad. He adds something different and helps to set the right tone for the game. At this stage, I would be disappointed if he wasn't included.

If you can be bothered to check back through my posts from earlier in the year, I haven't been a Burgess believer. I didn't think he could learn the game fast enough, and I didn't think he was that special at centre. Having watched him play several games at 6, he has changed my mind.

I was a Burgess sceptic also, but then you realize he wasn't just any old RL player but arguably the best RL forward in the game when he switched.

He has learned fast, which is good news. This RWC may still be too early for him but if he sticks with Union there must be a very high probability of him becoming an established England player

OK. I reckon he'll pick 45+ and an injury list. I also think do something with Armitage and Abendanon (like stick them on an on-call list) just to placate the media. Squad:

LH: Marler, Mako, Corbisiero, Mullan
Hooker: Hartley, Youngs, Webber, Cowan-Dickie
TH: Cole, Wilson, Brookes, Thomas
Lock: Lawes, Launchbury, Parling, Attwood, Itoje, Kruis
BS: Wood, Haskell, Burgess, Ewers
OS: Robshaw, Kvesic, Armitage
8: Billy, Morgan (Listed), Easter

SH: Youngs, Care, Wigglesworth, Dickson, Simpson (Listed)
FH: Ford, Farrell, Cipriani, Slade
C: Joseph, Burrell, Tuilagi (Listed), Daly, Eastmond, 12T, Barritt
W: Nowell, Watson, Ashton, Yarde, Wade
FB: Brown, Goode, Abendanon

Here's my list. Solid to shaky.......

Robshaw
Hartley
Youngs (Ben)
Youngs (Tom)
Cole
Marler
Vunipola (Mako)
Vunipola (Billy) (Injured List?)
Ford
Farrell
Joseph
Watson
Nowell
May
Launchbury
Lawes
Attwood
Parling
Wood
Haskell
Care
Wilson
Brown
Goode
Corbisiero
Barritt
Tuilagi (IL)
Cipriani
Wigglesworth
Burrell
Webber
Brookes
Mullan
Thomas
Kvesic
Morgan (IL)
Ashton
Yarde
Daly
Slade
Burgess
Itoje
Easter
Dickson
Eastmond
Twelvetrees
Kruis
Cowan-Dickie
Simpson (IL)
Ewers
Armitage (Stand-by)
Abendanon (SB)

Working across first then down-

Marler, Hartley, Cole, Launchbury, Lawes, Robshaw,
Wood, Vunipola B, Youngs B, Ford G. Nowell, Barrett (inj?),
Joesph, Watson, Brown (Inj?), Youngs T, Vunipola M, Wilson
Parling, Haskell, Wigglesworth, Farrell, Twelvetress, Morgan (inj),
Goode Alex, Care, Brooks, Webber, May J, Clark,
Easter, Corbisero, Attwood, Cipriani, Burrell, Thomas,
Mullen, Burgess, Myler, Slade, Kruis, Eastwood,
Dickson, Waldrom, Pennell, Rokoduguni, Kvesic, George,
Cowan-Dickie, Slater, Simpson (inj), Hill

Will edit if there are any injuries from today's games.

spaynter wrote:I also think do something with Armitage and Abendanon (like stick them on an on-call list) just to placate the media.

Pick Armitage and Abendanon for this and he's just sentenced himself to four months of further press coverage on the matter before the tournament. Leave them out and there may be a bit of gnashing of teeth for a few days but it will then be forgotten.

I wont name the whole squad as I think the core will largely be as expected. Recent BBC article says its a squad of 50 to be named.
A few observations though -

Does Lee Dickson miss out? He isnt on many peoples lists - Youngs, Care and Wigglesworth are most popular with Simpson showing recent form.
Burgess will be in the training squad.
My addition/bolters would be - Itoje, Cowan-Dickie, George, Slade,

Beshocked: 38, Wade
Cumbrian: 29, Tuilagi
7 ½: 28, Waldrom
Me: 36, Thomas
Thomh: 32, Thomas
Dummy_half: 39, Thomas
Chris_501: 36, Pennell
Paynter: 26, Tuilagi
B91212: 35, Thomas


Henry Thomas caught most people out as they all predicted 4 THs in such a large squad.

I'll take my real score as 33 (Thomas) as Tuilagi shafted me. ;o)