England v New Zealand ODI Thread
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The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Cricket
Page 10 of 11
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England v New Zealand ODI Thread
First topic message reminder :
Fixtures
Tuesday 9th June 2015
14:00 Edgbaston
Friday 12th June 2015
13:00 The Kia Oval
Sunday 14th June 2015
10:30 The Ageas Bowl
Wednesday 17th June 2015
14:00 Trent Bridge
Saturday 20th June 2015
10:30 Emirates Durham ICG
New Zealand Squad
Brendon McCullum (c)
Corey Anderson
Trent Boult
Grant Elliott
Martin Guptill
Matt Henry
Tom Latham (wk)
Mitchell McClenaghan
Nathan McCullum
Adam Milne±
Luke Ronchi (wk)
Mitchell Santner
Tim Southee
Ross Taylor
Ben Wheeler
Kane Williamson
England Squad
TBC
Fixtures
Tuesday 9th June 2015
14:00 Edgbaston
Friday 12th June 2015
13:00 The Kia Oval
Sunday 14th June 2015
10:30 The Ageas Bowl
Wednesday 17th June 2015
14:00 Trent Bridge
Saturday 20th June 2015
10:30 Emirates Durham ICG
New Zealand Squad
Brendon McCullum (c)
Corey Anderson
Trent Boult
Grant Elliott
Martin Guptill
Matt Henry
Tom Latham (wk)
Mitchell McClenaghan
Nathan McCullum
Adam Milne±
Luke Ronchi (wk)
Mitchell Santner
Tim Southee
Ross Taylor
Ben Wheeler
Kane Williamson
England Squad
TBC
Last edited by LondonTiger on Tue 02 Jun 2015, 4:41 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Capitalising "England")
LondonTiger- Moderator
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
Lol at that fielding
Good Golly I'm Olly- Tractor Boy
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
Is Mitchell McLenaghan the worst seam bowler in international cricket?
Possibly
Possibly
Good Golly I'm Olly- Tractor Boy
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
Just about to post up about how great Hales is and he gets out. I think this can be described as a DL proof platform though
Gooseberry- Posts : 8384
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
LondonTiger wrote:I think most of us want 6 genuine bowling options (with Root being a 7th option).
While I may not have been overly complimentary about Ali's recent red ball bowling, surely he has to be considered both to open and as an extra bowler once the Ashes are over. After all we are talking about a man with two ODI hundreds in his first year of ODI cricket and a decent bowling record so far (21 wickets from 21 innings bowled, 163 overs RPO 4.8).
As a bowling option he should be considered but I wouldn't want him as an opener until Roy/Hales have been given a good run and Vince then given a chance as next in line. Quite simply I think all three are better openers than him and that those top two spots are now too central to posting the huge totals ODI demands for them to be used for 'balance' as we have in the past.
As for Ali as a second spinner, he would offer more depth to the batting line-up and an off spinner to contrast Rashid. Plus his record thus far is good as you say. However I also feel that for us to get the best out of a wrist spinners natural wicket taking capabilities we could do with a second spinner to really control the tempo at the other end and take pressure off.
Stokes and Rashid are two players who as part of a 6 man attack being given the chance to bowl attacking spells could be very useful. However for that to work we'd need a second spinner who you could throw the ball to 9 games out of 10 and trust him to be economical for a full 10 overs. For me that man is still Tredwell rather than Moeen.
king_carlos- Posts : 12822
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
Eoin Morgan in this form is a pleasure to watch - you can't bowl to him
Good Golly I'm Olly- Tractor Boy
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
Has a series ever been this embarrassingly anti bowler? Other than, yes England are indeed capable of playing the modern game, I can't imagine anyone learned anything from these last four games.
kingraf- raf
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
Olly wrote:Eoin Morgan in this form is a pleasure to watch - you can't bowl to him
What a knock
Good Golly I'm Olly- Tractor Boy
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
gutted ive been plaing football and missed englands innings
JamesLincs- Posts : 2212
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
This is one of the best ODI series I can remember. All games have been outstanding and England have certainly given us all reason to care about the 50 over format going into the future, rather than preparing ourselves for more disappointment.
NickisBHAFC- Posts : 11670
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
kingraf wrote:Has a series ever been this embarrassingly anti bowler? Other than, yes England are indeed capable of playing the modern game, I can't imagine anyone learned anything from these last four games.
I don't think its been particularly anti - bowler. Its just that the bowlers are broadly sh*t
Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
kingraf wrote:Has a series ever been this embarrassingly anti bowler? Other than, yes England are indeed capable of playing the modern game, I can't imagine anyone learned anything from these last four games.
The pitches are poor and tailored to help out a new England line-up trying to show they bat as required for the 'modern game'.
However much of the bowling, and fielding, has ranged from poor to abysmal.
Boult was excellent prior to injury.
Wood has been impressive and shown what simple, accurate, hard working, hit the deck bowling can do amongst the histrionics.
Finn has mostly been good but nothing more than good.
Other than this it has been mixed at best from some such as Rashid, Willey, Southee and Wheeler.
Then very poor from the rest.
king_carlos- Posts : 12822
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
The bowlers need to look at Glenn McGrath, not only was he a brilliant test match bowler but he was also a brilliant one day bowler and the reason being he bowled line and length.
Hammersmith harrier- Posts : 12060
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
On a cheerier note another excellent chase from England with it pretty much a mirror image of the 3rd ODI where Root and Morgan got going but didn't play match defining knocks whereas Williamson and Taylor did.
This time around Williamson and Taylor played well without quite doing the business whilst Root and Morgan both went onto centuries.
This time around Williamson and Taylor played well without quite doing the business whilst Root and Morgan both went onto centuries.
king_carlos- Posts : 12822
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
Why the negativity. Its been a thoroughly entertaining series, played in a good spirit and highly competitive.
GSC- Posts : 43538
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
ShahenshahG wrote:kingraf wrote:Has a series ever been this embarrassingly anti bowler? Other than, yes England are indeed capable of playing the modern game, I can't imagine anyone learned anything from these last four games.
I don't think its been particularly anti - bowler. Its just that the bowlers are broadly sh*t
Pitches are in favour of the batsmen - as they should be in ODI's - but not massively. As Shah gets right, the bowling has been in large an absolute shambles. New Zealand were horrific today with the ball
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
GSC wrote:Why the negativity. Its been a thoroughly entertaining series, played in a good spirit and highly competitive.
BRING BACK THE BORING MIDDLE OVERS
Good Golly I'm Olly- Tractor Boy
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
God knows we'd all rather be watching a batsman make 30 runs from 200 deliveries in the 4th innings of a test.
GSC- Posts : 43538
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
urine taking aside, people can enjoy what they like. The elitism and putting it down as a bit of a bash irks me. If you don't like it, there really isn't anything forcing you to watch it frankly.
GSC- Posts : 43538
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
king_carlos wrote:
The pitches are poor and tailored to help out a new England line-up trying to show they bat as required for the 'modern game'.
In what way are they poor? They have been true with bounce and pace. Good bowling, especially today, would have made a major difference. One problem has been a complete lack of swing, which is not the pitches fault.
LondonTiger- Moderator
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
GSC wrote:urine taking aside, people can enjoy what they like. The elitism and putting it down as a bit of a bash irks me. If you don't like it, there really isn't anything forcing you to watch it frankly.
Frankly there isn't anything wrong with criticising it for what it is, not everyone is enamoured by the bash of limited overs cricket.
Hammersmith harrier- Posts : 12060
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
Is it not rather self defeating to watch it and then post about how much you dislike watching it?
GSC- Posts : 43538
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
I watched the first ODI and that is it, the format needs reinvigoration, a chase of 350 shouldn't be expected nor should four scores in a row in excess of 300.
Hammersmith harrier- Posts : 12060
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GSC- Posts : 43538
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
It's meant to be a contest between bat and ball not a bashathon.
Hammersmith harrier- Posts : 12060
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
Mark Wood has played two games where NZ have chased down 302 and made 350, and he's gone below 5 an over in each. Sure, the fielding restrictions are harsh on bowlers but if you bowl well you will find a way to succeed. See Wood and Boult in this series.
JDizzle- Posts : 6943
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
I'm thoroughly enjoying the bashing being done by the likes of Joe Root and Kane Williamson.
Admittedly the bowling has not been of a high standard. The batting however has been exceptional. Why people focus on the first primarily and ignore the 2nd astounds me, especially after watching England play in the world cup.
If you don't enjoy it then that's your prerogative. No issue with that. However there's little value in informing the world you don't enjoy or watch something. Adds very little to the forum saavy?
Admittedly the bowling has not been of a high standard. The batting however has been exceptional. Why people focus on the first primarily and ignore the 2nd astounds me, especially after watching England play in the world cup.
If you don't enjoy it then that's your prerogative. No issue with that. However there's little value in informing the world you don't enjoy or watch something. Adds very little to the forum saavy?
GSC- Posts : 43538
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
Adds very little to the forum saying that members can't have a negative opinion on something.
Hammersmith harrier- Posts : 12060
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
If you aren't even watching, sure
GSC- Posts : 43538
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
Another rubbish game of baseball - I remember when ODI centuries used to be a great achievement!
Duty281- Posts : 34693
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
Duty281 wrote:Another rubbish game of baseball - I remember when ODI centuries used to be a great achievement!
Now its just more of an ODI achievement if a bowler takes a five for.
CaledonianCraig- Posts : 20601
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
CaledonianCraig wrote:Duty281 wrote:Another rubbish game of baseball - I remember when ODI centuries used to be a great achievement!
Now its just more of an ODI achievement if a bowler takes a five for.
Strike rates might actually improve, unlike economy rates.
I can see where the hammer, and duty are coming from. These 350 scores will become boring after a while. Similar I suppose to Football making nets bigger and seeing 5-5 draws week in week out.
This doesn't discredit our boys on an excellent run chase.
Stella- Posts : 6671
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
Clearly at the moment the 50 over regulations are favourable to batting sides, at least on wickets that play reasonably true - if you look at the balance of the England team we only have two players who are picked for their bowling only (Finn and Wood), with the other bowlers being all rounders and in Stokes case particularly something of a batting all-rounder.
There was some good bowling in this match, both at the start of the NZ innings when Finn bowled well with no reward and during the batting power play when Finn and Wood reined in the situation before NZ got away and could push towards 400. Similarly, Boult in particular has bowled well for NZ, and others have chipped in with good performances at times.
I do though wonder when I entered the parallel universe in which an England ODI side can chase down 350 and make it look at least 75 runs light...
There was some good bowling in this match, both at the start of the NZ innings when Finn bowled well with no reward and during the batting power play when Finn and Wood reined in the situation before NZ got away and could push towards 400. Similarly, Boult in particular has bowled well for NZ, and others have chipped in with good performances at times.
I do though wonder when I entered the parallel universe in which an England ODI side can chase down 350 and make it look at least 75 runs light...
dummy_half- Posts : 6498
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
Oh things need to change as it is far too unbalanced towards the batsman. First change should be the ball. Have one with a decent seam that interests quicks and spinners and that can last 50 overs in a vaguely white colour so we do not have the two balls system. Bowlers have gained bugger all from this, but at the end of the innings the ball is still hard and far too easy to smack. Add in short boundaries and less outfielders and it is far too easy to slog.
However good bowling is still rewarded. Finn and Wood bowled with pace and control and were hard to score quickly off.
However good bowling is still rewarded. Finn and Wood bowled with pace and control and were hard to score quickly off.
LondonTiger- Moderator
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
Bowlers also need to catch up - batsmen nowadays are much stronger and spend much more time practising these six hitting shots (a lot of them are going into the stands so doesn't matter where you put the boundaries!)
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
Risk/Reward though.
At the moment for many batsmen the risk is minimal as even a top edge or mistimed drive will clear the boundary.
At the moment for many batsmen the risk is minimal as even a top edge or mistimed drive will clear the boundary.
LondonTiger- Moderator
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
25 fielders should even it out
Stella- Posts : 6671
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
Not if they drop chances at the rate we have seen in the last two matches.
Perhaps we should dock the runs for any 6 caught by the crowd?
Perhaps we should dock the runs for any 6 caught by the crowd?
LondonTiger- Moderator
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
Didn't see any of this match , but followed the latter part of the NZ innings on line ...and to be honest I rather fancied England to chase down the 350 target - though not with 4overs and seven wickets to spare ! Shows how at least my expectations have changed in a week or two.
Has been a bit too bat-dominated ; but I'm not complaining - so refreshing to see England batting in this manner. And most of the games have been close enough : the really boring ODIs are when one side scores a monster total and the opponent never looks remotely like competing. I'm sure we'll see a damp and lively pitch again some
day...
Has to be said also that some of the bowling and a lot of the catching has been ordinary to say the least.
Just hope it is fine up north on Saturday !
Has been a bit too bat-dominated ; but I'm not complaining - so refreshing to see England batting in this manner. And most of the games have been close enough : the really boring ODIs are when one side scores a monster total and the opponent never looks remotely like competing. I'm sure we'll see a damp and lively pitch again some
day...
Has to be said also that some of the bowling and a lot of the catching has been ordinary to say the least.
Just hope it is fine up north on Saturday !
alfie- Posts : 22137
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
LondonTiger wrote:king_carlos wrote:
The pitches are poor and tailored to help out a new England line-up trying to show they bat as required for the 'modern game'.
In what way are they poor? They have been true with bounce and pace. Good bowling, especially today, would have made a major difference. One problem has been a complete lack of swing, which is not the pitches fault.
Other than Edgbaston they have offered little turn and lateral movement for the quicks has been limited to the first few overs, if there has been any. Yes swing played a part here but the lack of movement for spinners or seamers in the middle overs have made them very difficult to bowl in.
As I've said the main issue was the poor bowling but a bit more is needed from the wickets as well IMO.
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
I can't see England get 300 against the Australians. Starc Johnson, and Hazlewood all go at under 5.00 an over. Only Boult of the Kiwis does and he has gone home.
Jetty- Posts : 330
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/video_audio/888871.html
Morgan credits his success to IPL
well....he's comitted blasphemy, another KP in the making and will be dumped soon as he fails and "English" Root made the captain
Pitches continue to disappoint and make it hard to take these games seriously
Morgan credits his success to IPL
well....he's comitted blasphemy, another KP in the making and will be dumped soon as he fails and "English" Root made the captain
Pitches continue to disappoint and make it hard to take these games seriously
KP_fan- Posts : 10678
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
king_carlos wrote:LondonTiger wrote:king_carlos wrote:
The pitches are poor and tailored to help out a new England line-up trying to show they bat as required for the 'modern game'.
In what way are they poor? They have been true with bounce and pace. Good bowling, especially today, would have made a major difference. One problem has been a complete lack of swing, which is not the pitches fault.
Other than Edgbaston they have offered little turn and lateral movement for the quicks has been limited to the first few overs, if there has been any. Yes swing played a part here but the lack of movement for spinners or seamers in the middle overs have made them very difficult to bowl in.
As I've said the main issue was the poor bowling but a bit more is needed from the wickets as well IMO.
Thing is, if we put in pitches that turn and seam then we will be seeing 150 run innings, and people will moan. You cannot realistically prepare an international wicket for an ODI with some seam movement but not too much, it is not an exact science.
anyway I reckon Starc and Johnson would have loved the pace and knocked us over for under 250.
LondonTiger- Moderator
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
KP_fan wrote:http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/video_audio/888871.html
Morgan credits his success to IPL
well....he's comitted blasphemy, another KP in the making and will be dumped soon as he fails and "English" Root made the captain
Pitches continue to disappoint and make it hard to take these games seriously
Has your account been taken over by kpfan? Incase you missed it the ecb told morgan and hales to go to the Ipl this year.
Gooseberry- Posts : 8384
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
Jonny Bairstow called up as cover for Joss Buttler who has damaged a hand.
LondonTiger- Moderator
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
LondonTiger wrote:king_carlos wrote:LondonTiger wrote:king_carlos wrote:
The pitches are poor and tailored to help out a new England line-up trying to show they bat as required for the 'modern game'.
In what way are they poor? They have been true with bounce and pace. Good bowling, especially today, would have made a major difference. One problem has been a complete lack of swing, which is not the pitches fault.
Other than Edgbaston they have offered little turn and lateral movement for the quicks has been limited to the first few overs, if there has been any. Yes swing played a part here but the lack of movement for spinners or seamers in the middle overs have made them very difficult to bowl in.
As I've said the main issue was the poor bowling but a bit more is needed from the wickets as well IMO.
Thing is, if we put in pitches that turn and seam then we will be seeing 150 run innings, and people will moan. You cannot realistically prepare an international wicket for an ODI with some seam movement but not too much, it is not an exact science.
anyway I reckon Starc and Johnson would have loved the pace and knocked us over for under 250.
Pitches are never an exact science, however if groundsmen continue to simply produce pitches with 'good pace and bounce' because it gives them something reliable then every match is going to end up being the same.
If they try to produce a wicket with something for the bowlers then sometimes weather conditions might lead to a pitch being too tough for big scores but it would at least provide something different. That is the beauty of pitch preparation not being an exact science, we don't know exactly what sort of match it will give us.
Unless of course we produce perfectly flat and faultless batting wickets. They may be reliable but they will also produce extremely similar matches 9 times out of 10.
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
If Buttler is unavailable it might be a good chance to try another bowler in the side with Billings moving up to 6 and keeping. It could also give Billings longer at the wicket to show what he's got with the bat.
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
Except they do not trust Billings to keep wicket.
LondonTiger- Moderator
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
Sure I read somewhere that Billings had a knock too
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
Olly wrote:Sure I read somewhere that Billings had a knock too
Maybe - he was wringing his hands after fielding a ball - though Bairstow was put on standby before the series started.
LondonTiger- Moderator
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Re: England v New Zealand ODI Thread
Anyone watching this ?
I came in a bit late ; have to say the fireworks we've become accustomed to are missing at present ...this is more like the old "boring middle overs" , though a run rate of a little under five isn't exactly crawling , at 138/2 after that six deliberately edged over the keeper !
NZ with plenty of wickets in hand so I'm sure there will be a charge eventually. But it isn't looking like 300 plus this time...
I came in a bit late ; have to say the fireworks we've become accustomed to are missing at present ...this is more like the old "boring middle overs" , though a run rate of a little under five isn't exactly crawling , at 138/2 after that six deliberately edged over the keeper !
NZ with plenty of wickets in hand so I'm sure there will be a charge eventually. But it isn't looking like 300 plus this time...
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