F1 Canadian GP Thread - Contains Spoilers of all sessions

[Fernando]

Formula 1 heads to North America for the first time in 2015 this weekend for the Canadian Grand Prix at a pivotal point in the championship fight.

Nico Rosberg arrives in Montreal as the in-form driver after winning back-to-back races for the first time in his F1 career, even if his victory in Monaco two weeks ago was somewhat fortuitous.

His Mercedes teammate and title rival Lewis Hamilton still leads the drivers’ championship by ten points, but knows that he would be enjoying a 24-point lead had the strategic mistakes in Monaco not been made.

Nevertheless, the Briton has a soft spot for the Circuit Gilles Villeneuve as it was the site of his first grand prix victory back in 2007 with McLaren. Since then, he has won a further two times and has never finished off the podium when he has made it to the checkered flag.

The intra-team fight at Mercedes is just one of many storylines that will define this weekend’s race.

2015 Canadian Grand Prix – Talking Points

Thinking twice

After seeing a near-certain win in Monaco pass him by, Lewis Hamilton will be keen to fight back this weekend with a victory in his beloved Canada. Although he may claim that the race in the principality is behind him, it is likely that some elements of the defeat will still be playing on his mind. With a 60% chance of a safety car at the Circuit Gilles Villeneuve, if Mercedes were to make a snap call and tell Hamilton to pit, will he think twice? Then again, will Mercedes also think twice about any decisions Lewis may want to make? Time will tell.

Ferrari’s fightback

Having spent some of its engine ‘tokens’ for this weekend’s race in Canada, Ferrari could well be able to take a step towards Mercedes and perhaps challenge for a second win of the season. Sebastian Vettel arrives in Montreal off the back of a surprising second-place finish in Monaco, whilst Kimi Raikkonen is focusing on an improved qualifying display after struggling last time out. The power advantage may lie with Mercedes, but if Ferrari can make a step forwards, the Italian team could yet be in the mix this weekend.

Slim hopes for another Montreal miracle at Red Bull

Daniel Ricciardo’s victory in Canada last year came as something of a shock given Red Bull’s struggles at the start of 2014, but hopes of a repeat in 2015 are very slim indeed. The affable Australian’s victory came about last year thanks to Mercedes’ reliability woes, but this time around, if a repeat were to occur, it is likely that Ferrari and Williams would be the teams to pick up the pieces and claim a win. Red Bull is certainly improving, but with Renault admitting its engines will struggle in Montreal, this could be a weekend to forget for the team.

Verstappen gets back in the saddle

After suffering a huge shunt towards the end of the Monaco Grand Prix, Max Verstappen will return to his car this weekend with another lesson learned in his rookie F1 season. The 17-year-old has remained bullish about the incident, brushing off any criticism that has been pointed his way. He even suggested that Felipe Massa, one of his critics, should think about his own accident in Canada last year instead of pointing the finger. With youth comes bravado, of course…

Good timing, eh

The Canadian Grand Prix is a favorite for many of the drivers and teams within F1. Montreal as a city wholly embraces the race and gives it a great party vibe. However, perhaps the most positive aspect of it among our readers is the timings. After a string of early starts for races in China, Spain and Monaco, the Canadian Grand Prix is held entirely on ET, making it far friendlier for those in the USA to watch.

Timings aside, the action provided in Montreal is always entertaining. It’s very rare for there to be a ‘boring’ Canadian Grand Prix, and the 2015 edition should be no different.

2015 Canadian Grand Prix – Facts and Figures

Track: Circuit Gilles Villeneuve
Laps: 70
Corners: 13
Lap Record: Rubens Barrichello 1:13.622 (Ferrari, 2004)
Tire Compounds: Super-Soft (Option); Soft (Prime)
2014 Winner: Daniel Ricciardo (Red Bull)
2014 Pole Position: Nico Rosberg (Mercedes) 1:14.874
2014 Fastest Lap: Felipe Massa (Williams) 1:18.504
DRS Zones: Casino Straight (T11 to T12); Main Straight (T13 to T1)

[GSC]

Yung Max had a bit of a strop at the press conference.

Hamilton sticks it in the wall in the rain

[GSC]

Looks like Hamilton had the pace before rain, Ferraris look handy in a straight line

[GSC]

Vettels has an issue with the energy recovery unit and goes out in Q1. Massa joins him and Button doesn't run

[CaledonianCraig]

Wow it is quiet in here.

First up the Canadian Grand Prix is one of my favourite races of the year. It always throws up exciting races and is a tricky circuit which lends itself to incidents. As for the qualifying Mercedes remain in control but from the second row to about the fifth row the cars are pretty evenly paced so there should be some good scraps behind the Mercedes.

[CaledonianCraig]

Just to compound Vettel's woes he will start at the back of the grid having picked up a five-place penalty for ignoring red flags being waved for Nasri's crash in final practice.

[GSC]

On the bright side he'll have the straight line speed to make moves. I'd probably start from the pitlane. Avoid the first corner.

[dyrewolfe]

Just to compound Vettel's woes he will start at the back of the grid having picked up a five-place penalty for ignoring red flags being waved for Nasri's crash in final practice.

What the heck is Samir Nasri doing in an F1 car? Some new sponsorship deal Sauber have with Man City? Chelsea will be upset!

A few surprises during quali - mainly due to technical problems.

Hoping but not expecting a close race between Lewis and Nico for the victory.

Should be a good scrap between Kimi, Valtteri and Romain for 3rd and close battles for the remaining points places.

Throw in the fact Vettel and Massa will be coming through the field to displace two of the current top 10 (I expect) and we should be in for a good spectacle.

[CaledonianCraig]

Just to compound Vettel's woes he will start at the back of the grid having picked up a five-place penalty for ignoring red flags being waved for Nasri's crash in final practice.

What the heck is Samir Nasri doing in an F1 car? Some new sponsorship deal Sauber have with Man City? Chelsea will be upset!

A few surprises during quali - mainly due to technical problems.

Hoping but not expecting a close race between Lewis and Nico for the victory.

Should be a good scrap between Kimi, Valtteri and Romain for 3rd and close battles for the remaining points places.

Throw in the fact Vettel and Massa will be coming through the field to displace two of the current top 10 (I expect) and we should be in for a good spectacle.

Daft sod that I am.

[Jermaine2015]

Shocking day for Sebastian Vettel, considering Kimi was third and Vettel's normally 2/3 tented faster he would been up there(penalty aside).

[Fernando]

Even a Canadian GP can't save us from the dullness that is Mercedes Domination.

[CaledonianCraig]

Even a Canadian GP can't save us from the dullness that is Mercedes Domination.

Quite surprised there wasn't more action down the field though. Canada normally always supplies excitement - sadly not today. Hamilton always in control and Rosberg powerless to do anything about it.

[GSC]

Complete snorefest.

Kimi threw away a battle for 3rd, Vettel did as well as he couldve realistically expected. Mercs as you were.

If you were out all day and have to choose between the highlights of this or the England game id check what else is on TV.

[Wellington]

That was the most boring Grans Prix I have ever watched. Truly awful, normally enjoy Canada. Dull would be an exaggeration.

[Fernando]

How to sum up a race in one picture...

[dyrewolfe]

A picture says a thousand words Nando...you (or Kimi) pretty well nailed it there.

Well, thats 3 boring races in a row now. Barcelona, Monaco and now Canada.


Wearing my tinfoil hat again, did anyone else get the impression Mercedes managed their drivers, via the supposed need for fuel consumption, to produce an artifically close finish between Lewis & Nico?

It struck me as strange for a few reasons. Firstly, for lap after lap, Rosberg would close to just over a second behind Hamilton, only for Lewis to open up an extra half a second or so, just before the DRS zones.

Secondly, no-one else in the top 10 appeared to be having fuel issues and 3rd to 10th looked as though they were scrapping for every place and point (although Bottas looked fairly comfortable after he took advantage of Kimi's spin).

Did Mercedes really fuel their drivers that short that they had to begin fuel saving nearly mid-way through the race? If so, that seems plain idiotic, given their performance advantage. Could they have been worried by Ferrari's power improvements? Maybe but surely not to that extent. Their fears proved groundless in any case.

If not, I can only think somebody had a quiet word with Wolff and Lowe and asked them to try and ensure a closer race between their drivers.

To me it looked like a procession. Neither driver was ever pushing their car to the limit and as said previously, the gap between them closed and opened almost metronomically, lap after lap.

If this is true then I am hugely insulted, offended and outraged.

It is one thing to have a team (and/or driver) that is clearly superior to the others and for them to cruise into the distance, as Michael Schumacher used to do. Its still not nice and not good for F1, but at least its honest.

To have a team with a clear performance advantage, deliberately shackle their drivers with fake / unnecessary fuel saving procedures, in the name of producing a "close" race, is just utterly contemptible.


Both Lewis and Nico were using fuel at almost identical rates, according to the on-screen graphics, which on its own doesn't tell us much. I'd have been much more interested to see their fuel consumption versus the rest of the top 10.

Okay, rant / conspiracy theory over.


While overall the Canadian GP may have been a good cure for insomnia, it did have its moments.

Vettel produced a great drive, making up 16 places to finish 5th behind his team mate, making it a pretty good weekend for Ferrari.

Massa did nearly as well, making up for a poor quali and gaining 9 places to finish 6th behind Vettel, helping Williams score a nice haul of points, in addition to Bottas's podium.

Grosjean rather ruined his race by hitting Stevens' Marussia, cutting back in front way too close after overtaking and incurring a time penalty. Could have finished a few places higher up. Fortunately Maldonado was able to pick up some of the slack. Overall not a bad weekend for Lotus with both cars in the top 10.

Poor showing for Red Bull...I guess Horner will be giving Renault more grief.

Absolute disaster for McLaren though. A third of the way through the season and still no discernible improvement. That has to be a huge cause for concern for a team of their stature...moreso the power plant than the car design. Its one thing to have a car with less than great aero, but if you can't even finish races, that has to be a secondary concern.

Honda better spend any and all remaining engine development tokens in one big hurry!

[GSC]

To be honest, there's very little point in Hamilton or Rosberg overusing the tyres or fuel as if someone binned in the wall they end up backed into the pack again. Neither had the raw pace to drive away from each other this weekend.

Not even sure it had its moments, Kimi spinning and Grosjean hitting Stevens the two most memorable moments and both were resolved quickly. Vettel and Massa ended up cruising past vastly slower cars.

F1 badly needs someone to put Mercedes under pressure. The tyres, fuel etc are all secondary concerns.

[dyrewolfe]

To be honest, there's very little point in Hamilton or Rosberg overusing the tyres or fuel as if someone binned in the wall they end up backed into the pack again. Neither had the raw pace to drive away from each other this weekend.

Not even sure it had its moments, Kimi spinning and Grosjean hitting Stevens the two most memorable moments and both were resolved quickly. Vettel and Massa ended up cruising past vastly slower cars.

F1 badly needs someone to put Mercedes under pressure. The tyres, fuel etc are all secondary concerns.

Thing is Mercedes DID let Lewis and Nico race each other last season. Okay it backfired once or twice, but surely that is the nature of motorsport? Even though they did tangle a couple of times, it didn't affect the outcome of the season.

My beef about "managing" the drivers is that, if Lewis DID have the pace to leave Nico in his wake, then why not let him? If Nico could have pushed Lewis harder, why not let him?

Safety Cars are a possibility at any race. That shouldn't be used as an excuse for not letting / making your drivers push as hard as possible. With that attitude races would be even more processional than they are now.

At some point the powers that be within F1 have to wake up to the fact they need to be providing a decent on-track spectacle, even if that is sometimes at odds with individual teams' needs.

Totally agree with your last point though. F1 is stagnating fast, but it will only improve with a very radical overhaul of the technical and financial rules.

I'm not convinced the proposed changes for 2017 are going to help much.

[GSC]

Generally you aren't as fuel or tyre limited as they were this weekend. The trick to modern F1 is to go as fast as you can without over extending the tyres or fuel reserves, sadly.

The Merc drivers tend to be pretty evenly paced with Hamilton generally pulling out an extra tenth or so. Think it was more that this weekend, Hamilton wasn't quick enough to pull away and Rosberg wasn't quick enough to get close. Merc have used team orders since Spa anyway.

[CaledonianCraig]

I do feel adding another tyre manufacturer or two in there adds more variations to the mix and that is what is needed. The more variations of equipment then the differing strategies and possibilities go up and must surely increase excitement.

[GSC]

I don't want to go back to the bridgestones that made every race an easy one stop. But tyres need to have far less extreme degredation than the pirellis

[CaledonianCraig]

I don't want to go back to the bridgestones that made every race an easy one stop. But tyres need to have far less extreme degredation than the pirellis

Well the FIA specified to Pirelli what they wanted from tyres so could do the same with other incoming manufacturers.

[Fernando]

If F1 wants more of a spectacle then go back to 2012 when tyres fell off the cliff forcing 3-4 stops. I know people don't like them but it's the only way without changing engine's bringing Mercedes back towards the pack.

[dyrewolfe]

Generally you aren't as fuel or tyre limited as they were this weekend. The trick to modern F1 is to go as fast as you can without over extending the tyres or fuel reserves, sadly.

The Merc drivers tend to be pretty evenly paced with Hamilton generally pulling out an extra tenth or so. Think it was more that this weekend, Hamilton wasn't quick enough to pull away and Rosberg wasn't quick enough to get close. Merc have used team orders since Spa anyway.

And thats another ugly facet of F1 that is supported by the current system we have in place that enables one team to dominate.

I bet if Mercedes had some serious competition (and Red Bull and Ferrari in seasons past) and actually had to work for their victories, they wouldn't be so bothered about managing their drivers (i.e. if there was some actual racing going on).

Using team orders to hold up other teams is one thing (understandable but still distasteful), but not allowing team mates to race is just pathetic. Can you imagine if they had tried that when Prost and Senna were at McLaren? Or Mansell and Piquet at Williams?

Its sad that protecting teams' and sponsors' corporate images have become more important than the racing.

As for the tyre situation, I think Pirelli have proven that it doesn't matter what you do with tyres, they often have very little direct effect on race outcomes. Usually changing track conditions, teams getting their strategy wrong (the "falling off the cliff" effect), or being able to make their tyres last longer, tend to be the main reasons for drivers making or losing positions.

If the powers that be were willing to make the sweeping changes required, to relax the design regs and boost the income of the smaller teams to help them compete (i.e. level up the playing field somewhat), you could go back to the Bridgestone era and have tyres that could do a whole race and STILL have close, exciting racing.

It amazes me that even after all this tinkering round the edges...multiple tyre compounds, DRS and cutting off more and more design innovations, they still haven't figured out what the problems are. I guess its true what they say about money and power corrupting...

[dyrewolfe]

Just to add I wholeheartedly agree with much of what David Coulthard says in his latest BBC column:

David Coulthard: Short-changed drivers not enjoying F1

From seeing the reaction on social media following the race, I know I am not the only person who did not like what I saw at the Canadian Grand Prix.

The number of radio messages about fuel saving during the race really annoyed me.

It seems to me that this is the biggest issue at the heart of complaints that Formula 1 is not what it should be, in terms of a test of man and machine on the limit at all times.

The sport has gone from the bucking bronco cars driven by Ayrton Senna, Alain Prost and Nigel Mansell, to an exercise in systems management which Fernando Alonso likened to piloting airliners.

The sad reality is that the drivers are not enjoying the current F1. They are just not tested sufficiently.

Of course, the cars are hard to drive. They remain the fastest and most sophisticated racing cars in the world.

But they are not difficult enough - either physically or mentally.

Fernando Alonso is an all-time great, a driver who would have been at the top of the sport in whatever era he raced. In the last two races he has said two things that really hit home.

The first was that the last time he was tested to his limit mentally and physically in a grand prix was 10 years ago.

The second was that driving the current cars is more about systems management than it is about driving skill.

Lewis Hamilton is of the same calibre. He said after the race in Canada that he was not even stressed, that it was not difficult.

F1 had refuelling throughout my career. Even so, there were races when you under-fuelled the car because it was quicker.

But if we were asked to save fuel it was not by the method used now, which is called 'lift and coast' and involves a driver lifting off the throttle for a period of time before braking for the corner. We usually did it by short-shifting - changing gear before we reached maximum revs.

In other words, it did not affect your driving in the corners, which is the essence of an F1 driver's skill.

There were occasional races when we might lift and coast, but it was not commonplace and it did not affect the racing as it did in Canada.

Back then, to have had a driver come on the radio, as Alonso did on Sunday, and say "let me race, we look like amateurs", would have been unthinkable.

It seems to me that F1 has drifted too far from what made it great in the first place.

Sports such as football have remained relatively unchanged and their appeal has passed from generation to generation.

F1 has become too close to the category immediately below it, GP2, so it is too easy for drivers to make the transition, which in turn diminishes the appeal of the star names, whose greater ability has in the past differentiated them from the norm more easily than it can now.

F1 has to project the sense that you are watching a feat of amazing human skill.

It's terrific that the sport's bosses recognise there is a problem and are considering making some changes. But even then they are not going far enough.

They need to have a more fundamental think about what F1 should be, take the time to do it properly and act on that. Half-measures are not enough.

The core appeal of F1 is the gladiatorial aspect of man and machine on the absolute limit at incredible speeds, with the risk - however remote and undesired - that someone could get hurt.

Stray too far from that, and the sport will lose its wow factor.

Apparently when re-fuelling was banned, the number of on-track overtakes doubled.

Not sure how that works, as slower cars, low on fuel, could still pass heavily-fuelled faster cars (even if they weren't genuinely racing for position - it still created interest for the spectators and could potentially mess up race strategies).

[GSC]

Generally everyone ran the same strategy. Qualify with a option stints worth of fuel then go on primes to the end.

[Belgarion of Riva]

Merc have used team orders since Spa anyway.
=============

Hmmm, I seem to recall Japan, Brazil, where they went at it hammer and tong.

You sure about that?

[dummy_half]

...


Apparently when re-fuelling was banned, the number of on-track overtakes doubled.

Not sure how that works, as slower cars, low on fuel, could still pass heavily-fuelled faster cars (even if they weren't genuinely racing for position - it still created interest for the spectators and could potentially mess up race strategies).

It was actually pretty rare for notionally slower cars to pass the quicker ones - the strategists aimed to drop their cars into decent gaps rather than into a contest. Also, it was quite common to try to use the strategy and stops to get ahead by varying stint length and short or long fuelling. If a refuelling stop can be between (say) 7 and 13 seconds, there is a lot more scope for changing things than in a tyre-only stop where you would hope to be done in between 2.5 and 3.5s. Since refuelling ended, it has been more important to fight for track position on track rather than in the pit lane

Of course the other consideration is how easy or difficult overtaking is given the current car regulations. The late era refuelling cars were difficult because running too close to the car in front through a corner compromised front end grip so much, while the newer cars appear to be a little better in that regard. Add in the advantage that DRS in particular has given (and for the one year when a few cars were running KERS but most weren't) plus the increased disparity between new and worn tyres, and overtaking has definitely been easier in the last few years (perhaps too easy on some circuits).

[dyrewolfe]

Generally everyone ran the same strategy. Qualify with a option stints worth of fuel then go on primes to the end.

True, as with tyres everyone quickly worked out what the "optimum" strategies were, but it did at least offer the scope for a few surprises every so often.

It was actually pretty rare for notionally slower cars to pass the quicker ones - the strategists aimed to drop their cars into decent gaps rather than into a contest. Also, it was quite common to try to use the strategy and stops to get ahead by varying stint length and short or long fuelling. If a refuelling stop can be between (say) 7 and 13 seconds, there is a lot more scope for changing things than in a tyre-only stop where you would hope to be done in between 2.5 and 3.5s. Since refuelling ended, it has been more important to fight for track position on track rather than in the pit lane

Of course the other consideration is how easy or difficult overtaking is given the current car regulations. The late era refuelling cars were difficult because running too close to the car in front through a corner compromised front end grip so much, while the newer cars appear to be a little better in that regard. Add in the advantage that DRS in particular has given (and for the one year when a few cars were running KERS but most weren't) plus the increased disparity between new and worn tyres, and overtaking has definitely been easier in the last few years (perhaps too easy on some circuits).

Can't really argue with that.

My main thought about re-fuelling is that it allows cars to run with just the fuel they need for a given stint, meaning they can perform better for more of the race, instead of starting heavily laden, forcing drivers to drive conservatively to make their tyres last.

As for multiple tyre compounds and DRS, I don't think they are particularly bad ideas, its just that their impact had been minimal, due to a number of reasons...the worst one by far being the current fuel and tyre-saving requirements. IMO they have done far more harm to F1 by turning it into a resource management exercise.

As I've said several times before, relaxing the design regs to allow much greater freedom to innovate and making the distribution of prize money less heavily skewed in favour of the top 5 teams, would help far more than tinkering with stuff like tyres and overtaking aids.

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