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Wimbledon Day 6 - Young Winston (Kerber Enthusiasm)

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monty junior
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Post by JuliusHMarx Fri Jul 03, 2015 8:04 pm

First topic message reminder :

Order of play

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/22713811

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Post by CaledonianCraig Sat Jul 04, 2015 4:03 pm

Karlovic brings his big serve as a threat but Tsonga has a decent serve himself and a better all-court game. If Murray (should he get there) is too passive like he can get at times it opens the door to Tsonga and he'd be more of a threat than Karlovic in my opinion.
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Post by Aut0Gr4ph Sat Jul 04, 2015 4:03 pm

Right. The dog is giving me the stink eye, so I will have to break away for a bit. Fingers-crossed I'll be back in time to see Wardy wrap this up in 4.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Sat Jul 04, 2015 4:19 pm

Karlovic takes the third set on a tie-break and he leads 7-6 4-6 7-6. Tsonga now up against it.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Sat Jul 04, 2015 4:25 pm

Ward levels it up at one set all.
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Post by Duty281 Sat Jul 04, 2015 4:30 pm

Ward just needs to stay in the rallies and wait for the inevitable errors from the Canadian.

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Post by LuvSports! Sat Jul 04, 2015 4:51 pm

Ward played an insane 30shot rally to earn a break point and followed it up woith a great return to break. Leads 3-1.

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Post by temporary21 Sat Jul 04, 2015 4:53 pm

On the grass debate. I don't think we should have super fast grass. It rewards people who just have one or two shots too much. Brown went down becUse he didn't have a plan b, and couldn't play the percentage shot at the right times, not because it's too slow

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Post by Aut0Gr4ph Sat Jul 04, 2015 4:54 pm

Not sure these two would be managing 30 shot rallies in 'lightning fast' conditions. Better rush home for the conclusion.

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Post by LuvSports! Sat Jul 04, 2015 4:57 pm

temporary21 wrote:On the grass debate. I don't think we should have super fast grass. It rewards people who just have one or two shots too much. Brown went down becUse he didn't have a plan b, and couldn't play the percentage shot at the right times, not because it's too slow

Same as Rafa not having a plan B for Brown.

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Post by Born Slippy Sat Jul 04, 2015 4:59 pm

Aut0Gr4ph wrote:Not sure these two would be managing 30 shot rallies in 'lightning fast' conditions. Better rush home for the conclusion.

A 30 shot rally full of changes of pace, net approaches and lobs. The type of fast court tennis we all want to see.

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Post by biugo Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:01 pm

Tsonga holding it well in this 4th set TB.. Go Jo!

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Post by temporary21 Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:07 pm

Come on ward!

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Post by temporary21 Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:10 pm

LuvSports! wrote:
temporary21 wrote:On the grass debate. I don't think we should have super fast grass. It rewards people who just have one or two shots too much. Brown went down becUse he didn't have a plan b, and couldn't play the percentage shot at the right times, not because it's too slow

Same as Rafa not having a plan B for Brown.
Dont understand why Rafas in this one, I didnt buy that the surface was too slow for Brown to do well on, he had the conditions for his shots but he was too reckless at times. Rafa doesnt have a plan b since he plays it too much like its clay, which he cant do anymore.
A surface where a good defender can still defend should be mandatory for a great court, like a good cricket pitch, a bit of nibble but plays clean if you can get in

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Post by LuvSports! Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:11 pm

Karlovic wins in 4.
Bit of controversy as Karlovic saved a set point with a potential double hit.

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Post by temporary21 Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:12 pm

Stronga goes out sadly, Murray or Seppi to take on the good doctor

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Post by temporary21 Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:12 pm

I didnt see it, was it a double hit from one complete swing? Thats ok

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Post by CaledonianCraig Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:15 pm

Great serving display from the Doc but Tsonga's returning game just wasn't up to scratch for me. Double hit by Doc at set point by the Doc and the match turned on that.
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Post by biugo Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:18 pm

After losing first set 6-4 to Andujar, Berdych bagels him

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Post by temporary21 Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:19 pm

At 36, the good doctor is quietly having a really great year

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Post by Aut0Gr4ph Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:20 pm

Uh-oh. Loose game from Ward. This has got 5 sets written all over it.

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Post by summerblues Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:21 pm

Brown himself may not be good enough to do really well in any conditions. But it is no coincidence that everyone is winning Wimbledon from the baseline now while in the past everyone was winning it playing S&V. Conditions just favor baseliners, no question there. Even Fed was winning it mostly from the baseline.

Regarding fast conditions favoring players with just one or two shots. I would say the current slow conditions are worse in that regard. It is not so visible because the players do not need wide range of shots nowadays, but someone like Djoko does not really have all that much variety at his disposal himself.

This is not to blame Djoko. The conditions are what they are and he just optimizes his performance relative to them - as he should. But there is no questions that conditions favor that style of tennis.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:23 pm

Ward broken in the fourth set and Pospisil looks good to level it up at two sets all unless Ward can find another gear.
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Post by temporary21 Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:27 pm

I think Novak isnt given enough credit for his variety, his defense in particular varies very well, higher balls and driven bh's on the slide, he gets brilliant fh angles on the defense too. I mean you can blame a change of grass, somewhat, but really its the advent of the new racquets, amd Andre Agassi, to see why people can s and v anywhere anymore, the odds are down and the passes are too good.
I like this years conditions, you get value for coming in, not like the old days, but theyve buit a strip this year that lets you do both, attack and defend and those all rounders that can are doing well.
People cant break through Novak because their attack just isnt nearly as good as his defence, even with the help

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Post by Aut0Gr4ph Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:32 pm

Look, I'm not advocating super fast conditions here. There are a number of factors that have led to the death of S&V tennis and court speed is just one of them. Modern equipment has also had a huge impact and I don't think you can necessarily revive S&V by simply speeding the courts up. I do, however, think it's a shame that S&V isn't really a viable option on any surface these days.

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Post by temporary21 Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:33 pm

Also why is Kvitova struggling in a third set against Jankovic? Why is that happening and can someone fix it

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Post by temporary21 Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:35 pm

Aut0Gr4ph wrote:Look, I'm not advocating super fast conditions here. There are a number of factors that have led to the death of S&V tennis and court speed is just one of them. Modern equipment has also had a huge impact and I don't think you can necessarily revive S&V by simply speeding the courts up. I do, however, think it's a shame that S&V isn't really a viable option on any surface these days.
S and V ad baselining are yin and yang, they benefit from opposite conditions,
Part of it not being viable, if im honest, is that people arent very good at it anymore, they can put away easy ones, but the quality of baselining as a whole far exceeeds the volley. A really good, proper volleyer could probably get far on this stuff, but they would need to be absolutely world class, to go up against the world class baseliners

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Post by Aut0Gr4ph Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:36 pm

Meanwhile, Kvitova in a surprisingly close match against Jankovic. 1 set all and Kvitova only just clinging on to serve in the last game. Currently 2-2 in the 3rd.

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Post by JuliusHMarx Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:36 pm

temporary21 wrote:I didnt see it, was it a double hit from one complete swing? Thats ok

On the slo-mo replay it was two swings - a stop-volley, then an immediate little push volley. Was very hard to spot in real-time, although he was close to the net so the umpire had a good view. However, one of the commentators did ask the question even before the replay, so probably the umpire should have seen it.

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Post by summerblues Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:38 pm

Disagree on Novak twofold.

First, I think he actually gets more credit for variety than he deserves. I have seen plenty of statements to the effect of "he has no weakness" which implies being good at everything. Which he is clearly not - and more so than many other players. More so than even Rafa who is normally more likely to be viewed as 1D than Novak.

Second, the statement "player's A defence is better than player's B attack" is relative to the conditions. Certainly, in current conditions Nole's defence outdoes other players' attack. But different conditions could change that even if players themselves played exactly the same.

If everyone was still winning Wimbledon playing S&V and Nole just came in and managed to beat them all defending on the baseline then yes, I would be inclined to agree in more absolute terms that his defence were better than their offence. But that is not what happens.

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Post by Aut0Gr4ph Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:38 pm

So a final set showdown it is then. Does momentum give Popsicle the edge?

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Post by CaledonianCraig Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:38 pm

Pospisil takes the fourth set to draw level against James Ward. Murray continues to wait to start his match.
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Post by Born Slippy Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:39 pm

Aut0Gr4ph wrote:Look, I'm not advocating super fast conditions here. There are a number of factors that have led to the death of S&V tennis and court speed is just one of them. Modern equipment has also had a huge impact and I don't think you can necessarily revive S&V by simply speeding the courts up. I do, however, think it's a shame that S&V isn't really a viable option on any surface these days.

It clearly is viable on grass. 36 year old Ivo has just made the last 16 doing precisely that. Journeymen like Brown and Groth have made the last 32 playing that style. What makes SV unviable is the racquet technology and the slowness of most hard courts. There is just no way to play effective serve volley anywhere other than the grass and a few indoor events. Its very difficult to then do it effectively for 2-3 weeks per year.

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Post by temporary21 Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:39 pm

Hmm... it might have been just a reaction swing from the doc, I suppose out of good sport he should have called it himself, would be brave to do so set point down though

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Post by temporary21 Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:42 pm

Well I mean there is difference in calibre of player, Novaks a higher calibre than anyone for now, not by much but...

Also If Novak does have a weakness, what is it exactly, a weakness would means hes uncomfortable at something, hes not great at everything, but its very hard to make him uncomfortable

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Post by JuliusHMarx Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:42 pm

temporary21 wrote:Hmm... it might have been just a reaction swing from the doc, I suppose out of good sport he should have called it himself, would be brave to do so set point down though

Yeah - it was really fast, so he might not have even known for sure himself. A difficult one to call - probably just one of those things.

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Post by Aut0Gr4ph Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:42 pm

Almost got Popsicle in the balls with that one!

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Post by CaledonianCraig Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:46 pm

You sense now that Pospisil is playing the more solid tennis when he needs it most. Ward seems to have gone a bit flat. Not getting into Pospisil's service games and struggling more on his own.
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Post by summerblues Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:54 pm

Novak is certainly uncomfortable at the net and he is not exactly comfortable handling very low slice for example. These two alone would have been showing up as massive gaping holes years ago but are barely footnotes nowadays.

Anyway, not his fault. Players play the conditions that prevail and he is the #1 in current conditions. Likewise, McEnroe would have never done well if he had had to rely on baseline rallies to win Wimbledon, so it is kind of symmetrical that way. It is just annoying from my perspective because the style I prefer is the one that is difficult to make succeed these days.

I have to run, have a vacation the next week and will only get back a couple of hours before the final (assuming my flight does not get delayed). Will try to catch as much action as I can in between and will log in here if possible but mostly you guys all have fun.

And good luck to Ward.

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Post by Aut0Gr4ph Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:57 pm

Just watched a replay of the Ivo incident and no way was that one motion. Impossible to say for certain if he knew, but I suspect he did.

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Post by Aut0Gr4ph Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:58 pm

Kvitova out. Serena will be pleased.

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Post by Born Slippy Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:02 pm

summerblues wrote:Novak is certainly uncomfortable at the net and he is not exactly comfortable handling very low slice for example.  These two alone would have been showing up as massive gaping holes years ago but are barely footnotes nowadays.

Anyway, not his fault.  Players play the conditions that prevail and he is the #1 in current conditions.  Likewise, McEnroe would have never done well if he had had to rely on baseline rallies to win Wimbledon, so it is kind of symmetrical that way.  It is just annoying from my perspective because the style I prefer is the one that is difficult to make succeed these days.

I have to run, have a vacation the next week and will only get back a couple of hours before the final (assuming my flight does not get delayed).  Will try to catch as much action as I can in between and will log in here if possible but mostly you guys all have fun.

And good luck to Ward.

Throw in an average/poor serve and you have Andre Agassi. McEnroe playing today would be a huge threat every year at Wimbledon. He wouldn't need to change his game.

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Post by temporary21 Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:02 pm

Kvitova gone,..... fffffffff....

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Post by temporary21 Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:03 pm

Those two are only relative weaknesses to me. Hes not soo uncomfortable that I see it as a gaping hole

Anyway enjoy your holiday sb, spare a thought for me and my rubbish phd write up

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Post by Aut0Gr4ph Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:06 pm

Think Ward might be tiring here. Has started to play some odd looking shots.

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Post by Aut0Gr4ph Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:09 pm

Ward just needs to pretend this is DC and Popsicle American and he should walk it.

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Post by Aut0Gr4ph Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:10 pm

We're to the wire now. Into the breach Wardy.

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Post by LuvSports! Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:13 pm

Born Slippy wrote:
summerblues wrote:Novak is certainly uncomfortable at the net and he is not exactly comfortable handling very low slice for example.  These two alone would have been showing up as massive gaping holes years ago but are barely footnotes nowadays.

Anyway, not his fault.  Players play the conditions that prevail and he is the #1 in current conditions.  Likewise, McEnroe would have never done well if he had had to rely on baseline rallies to win Wimbledon, so it is kind of symmetrical that way.  It is just annoying from my perspective because the style I prefer is the one that is difficult to make succeed these days.

I have to run, have a vacation the next week and will only get back a couple of hours before the final (assuming my flight does not get delayed).  Will try to catch as much action as I can in between and will log in here if possible but mostly you guys all have fun.

And good luck to Ward.

Throw in an average/poor serve and you have Andre Agassi. McEnroe playing today would be a huge threat every year at Wimbledon. He wouldn't need to change his game.

Very much doubt that.

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Post by LuvSports! Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:22 pm

Posp breaks Sad . He's looked the stronger of the two.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:23 pm

Pospisil breaks and will serve for the match at 7-6. You felt that break was waiting to happen. Ward's game has fallen away slightly whilst Pospisil's level has risen.
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Wimbledon Day 6 - Young Winston (Kerber Enthusiasm) - Page 3 Empty Re: Wimbledon Day 6 - Young Winston (Kerber Enthusiasm)

Post by temporary21 Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:25 pm

Well cal. You want an aggressive murray. How's this?

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