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Carl Froch - an appreciation

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Post by captain carrantuohil Tue 14 Jul 2015, 8:30 am

First topic message reminder :

The curtain has come down on one of the great British boxing careers. Carl Froch has undoubtedly chosen the right time to call it a day and I believe that it is appropriate to take a little time to appreciate a man who has generally been a credit to his sport.

There have been fighters in the post-war era from these shores who possessed more pure boxing talent, for all that Froch was a world amateur medallist. Buchanan, Conteh, Laing, Calzaghe, Khan, others, possibly as well. There have been boxers who were readier to perfect a "man of the people", "likeable rogue" or "cheeky chappy" persona and so charm more fans onto their side but Hatton and Cooper are not at Froch's level of achievement. However, there have been very few who have made so much of what they had, who were prepared to fight opponents from the top shelf of their division so consistently or whose results against such opposition were so often adorned with the letter W.

Froch, to me, would rank fifth amongst all British and Irish fighters since the war. Only Lewis, Buchanan, Calzaghe and Hamed can claim a higher place; men such as Conteh and Honeyghan were terrific fighters but they were unable to make their sparkle last as long as Froch's perhaps more basic approach to his craft. In an all-time sense, I make Froch 11 in the UK lists - we can argue about precise placings but we cannot dispute that this was one of the most significant boxers that we have ever produced.

Forget the sometimes awkward public pronouncements and the occasional graceless moments - when he wasn't on his soap-box, Froch always seemed to be a thoughtful, articulate and engaging personality to me. I'm sure that he'll be well suited to life as a boxing pundit/summariser, where I doubt that he will try to flannel his audience about a fighter's performance just because he is British. Intelligent enough to retire with his health and wealth intact, Froch deserves all our respect as a boxer. I wish him a long and happy retirement.

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Post by 88Chris05 Tue 14 Jul 2015, 10:26 pm

A worthy tribute, captain.

Not much to add to what you and the rest of the fellas have said here already, but congratulations to Carl on a superb career and thanks for so many of those world title fights being thrillers. I've been in the stands for plenty of Froch's fights, right from his early days at domestic level all the way through to the Wembley show last year, and I've never felt like I didn't get my money's worth - even for the Dirrell fight!

He was always fun to watch, but while I knew it'd be an enjoyable ride I have to admit I never thought his championship career would end up being as successful as it was, with such a good win:loss ratio compiled against so many high-class operators, back in 2008. He didn't look the part in the same way that his more lavishly gifted contemporaries or predecessors did, but found a way to maximise his strengths to say the least.

To that end, I think it's telling that the three particularly disappointing moments of his title career - Kessler I, Ward and then Groves I - were all followed up in his very next fight with one of his greatest moments; the boxing clinic against Abraham, the demolition job as the betting underdog against the unbeaten Bute and then, of course, putting matters right against Groves at Wembley.

Tremendous character, bottle and self-belief at times when others would have been left questioning themselves and with brittle confidence. All the best to him in retirement.
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Post by Scottrf Tue 14 Jul 2015, 10:35 pm

88Chris05 wrote: putting matters right against Groves at Wembley.
Just Groves or were there other people there?

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Post by 88Chris05 Tue 14 Jul 2015, 10:39 pm

Me, and 79,999 insignificant others, Scott.
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Post by Herman Jaeger Wed 15 Jul 2015, 9:07 am

Could never fault Froch for toughness, heart and determination but was there a feeling after Ward,  he avoided the boxers from thereon(Hopkins, Ward rematch, DeGale) ?? Or again is that a little harsh?

Real shame the fans won't be able to see him in a swansong to bring down the curtain but needs to end his war of words with Calzaghe, it's not befitting of a gentleman boxer, he gave his title to DeGale just as he belittled Calzaghe for doing the same thing. Be gracious and give it up now. It will serve him well in the long run.

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Post by TopHat24/7 Wed 15 Jul 2015, 9:17 am

88Chris05 wrote:Me, and 79,999 insignificant others, Scott.

Oi, 79,998, thank you.

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Post by TopHat24/7 Wed 15 Jul 2015, 9:24 am

Herman Jaeger wrote:Could never fault Froch for toughness, heart and determination but was there a feeling after Ward,  he avoided the boxers from thereon(Hopkins, Ward rematch, DeGale) ?? Or again is that a little harsh?


Still bleating on about DeGale??

He was never going to be on Froch's radar. He was fighting nobodies in front of a few hundred chavs in a leisure centre whilst Froch was in sell-out world title fights versus Ward, Bute, Kess etc. DeGale only became really relevant 2 months ago and stopped being a nobody after Froch dealt with Groves second time out who, by the way, is a boxer. He can bang, but he's a slick skillful boxer with good amateur pedigree (including a win of JDG) who outboxed the aforementioned as a pro also.

Ward hasn't been available to fight since beating Dawson, which was his very next fight after Froch, so that is practical unreality as well as a fairly pointless fight anyway since everyone (including, I suspect, Carl) knew Froch would never win a rematch.

And Hoppo, seriously? The guy who a) isn't a 'boxer', just a spoiler; and b) has been operating at LHW for over 5 years.... Rolling Eyes

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Post by Herman Jaeger Wed 15 Jul 2015, 9:33 am

Well put Toppy, you have allayed my fears nicely.

Bringing up DeGale , I can see is going to rankle but at the end of the day, their paths did cross.

DeGale beat the guy who gave Froch more problems than anyone bar Ward. Their paths DID cross...

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Post by TopHat24/7 Wed 15 Jul 2015, 9:42 am

DeGale beat an older shopworn version who'd been out the game for god knows how long.

How did their paths ACTUALLY cross?

May 2014 - Carl beats GG in his last fight before retirement.
May 2015 - DeGale appears on the world scene for the first time.

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Post by Herman Jaeger Wed 15 Jul 2015, 9:52 am

You see I'm not entirely sure DeGale did beat a shopworn version, in fact Dirrell should be peaking just about now.

But seriously, I don't get how anyone can say their paths didn't cross...

Can someone explain???

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Post by TopHat24/7 Wed 15 Jul 2015, 9:59 am

You haven't even demonstrated how they DID cross???!

DeGale has never been more than background noise.

Thank you, however, for this comment:

in fact Dirrell should be peaking just about now

As you have successfully done my job for me a totally undermined yourself. 2 years out due to serious neurological issues then comes back to fight a few utter nobodies before his name & history gets him a shot at a vacant strap, which he loses, but yes, that sounds like a man at his peak.... Rolling Eyes

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Post by Herman Jaeger Wed 15 Jul 2015, 10:06 am

You seriously believe in the 'serious neurological issues?'.....

Answer that first, then I'll know if it's worth continuing.

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Post by TopHat24/7 Wed 15 Jul 2015, 10:21 am

I think a man needs to feed his family and, aside from a handful of sport's leading earners, he cannot do this if he's off without work or income for 2 years. That's a long holiday for the sake of sh*ts & giggles.

Even then, dismiss brain issues or not, a guy coming back from a 2 year lay off to fight a few random bums is not the definition of a fighter/boxer at his absolute peak.

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Post by Scottrf Wed 15 Jul 2015, 10:25 am

Herman Jaeger wrote:You seriously believe in the 'serious neurological issues?'.....
The farce against Abraham seems to support.

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Post by Herman Jaeger Wed 15 Jul 2015, 10:26 am

You could say DeGale fought nothing(except Groves,) yet produced his best ever against Dirrell.

It's about fighting up or down to the opponent's level.

Some fighters are like that. DeGale being a case in point. And sometimes just getting rounds can be important preparation.

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Post by TopHat24/7 Wed 15 Jul 2015, 10:33 am

Herman Jaeger wrote:You could say DeGale fought nothing(except Groves,) yet produced his best ever against Dirrell.

It's about fighting up or down to the opponent's level.

Some fighters are like that. DeGale being a case in point. And sometimes just getting rounds can be important preparation.

You are still ignoring a 2 year absence from the sport!!

Unless you're putting Dirrell on the level of Floyd or SRL.....??!

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Post by Herman Jaeger Wed 15 Jul 2015, 10:43 am

James DeGale, the NEW Mayweather..........


HE certainly thinks he is.....


Let's see how his career progresses.

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Post by AdamT Wed 15 Jul 2015, 10:45 am

Degale will do well to match Rogers career, never mind Floyd.

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Post by Herman Jaeger Wed 15 Jul 2015, 10:59 am

Laugh

He is good though.

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Post by AdamT Wed 15 Jul 2015, 11:01 am

DeGale can box. I would like to see him and GG go at it again, as long as Groves beats Jack next.

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Post by Herman Jaeger Wed 15 Jul 2015, 11:33 am

Sorry Toppy, I misread you, thought you meant DeGale.

No , not comparing Dirrell to Mayweather or SRL but I was impressed with him too.

To beat him on that form in his own backyard is worthy of praise. Maybe DeGale caught him with a one in a million punch, maybe Dirrell would have beaten him bar the knockdown. I guess time will tell.

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Post by aja424 Thu 16 Jul 2015, 1:34 pm

Would have loved to see a 32 year old Froch fight JDG, but would be frustrating to see JDG possibly get the better of Froch and edge a points win.

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