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Which would be beaten

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trottb
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Post by 3fingers Sat 01 Aug 2015, 4:49 pm

First topic message reminder :

Which light-welterweights, from each of the four main boxing organisations tops 10's, could ronda rousey beat in a street fight?

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Mon 03 Aug 2015, 6:58 pm

She a) is not attractive in the slight and b) is making a name in a sport where women just don't take it all that seriously, the standard is a joke to be honest and any suggestions she beats any professional male boxer is about the most ridiculous thing i've seen posted on here. Stick her in with any of the oriental little guys, sit back and watch her get her head kicked off her shoulders.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 03 Aug 2015, 7:25 pm

Bit like people who say Serena could take a set off Federer..

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Post by 3fingers Mon 03 Aug 2015, 10:27 pm

Boxers who can beat MMA fighters in the street are few and far between. The ones who have the best chance are hard nuts who have a history of fighting outside the ring.  I say Ronda Rousey is as strong as Luke Campbell, and would take him down no trouble at all. She'd duck low with a double leg take down, in fact so low that even an uppercut would be useless. Then she'd proceed to snap Luke Campbells arms. I'd give Tommy Coyle a better chance against her.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Mon 03 Aug 2015, 10:32 pm

Ronda Rousey as strong as Luke Campbell, that's a good one that is fingers, at the end of the day she's not a MMA fighter she's a female MMA fighter who would stand no chance against any professional boxer. Shall we chuck her in with Pongsalek Wongjongkam and see how long that one lasts.

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Post by 3fingers Mon 03 Aug 2015, 10:37 pm

She'd maul him Hammer. I don't think your giving the girl credit. Her world class Judo background alone is enough to take most men down. The fact they might be able to punch hard is irrelevant.

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Post by 3fingers Mon 03 Aug 2015, 10:40 pm

She'd slam him to the floor with one of these take downs. 1 min onward...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUcriSZL8rI

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Mon 03 Aug 2015, 10:46 pm

I'm not giving her any credit because ultimately as a women she cannot beat a world class fighter of any background let alone one that is bigger than she is. It's not at all irrelevant, it's as relevant as her being a lesser judoka than Campbell was amateur boxer, it's almost as if as a boxer is powerless to do anything but punch. You among others will ignore the damage that a flyweight like Wonjongkam would do to her, his background in Muay Thai would see her knocked out within seconds.

You simply cannot overlook the fact she's a women fighting other women who don't have a clue what they're doing, we're not talking about a man like Mcgregor or Aldo here.

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Post by 3fingers Mon 03 Aug 2015, 10:59 pm

Watch Rousey vs Meisha Tate - they definitely have a clue.

If you think they don't then i'm afraid it's you who doesn't have no clue.

Mcgregor or Aldo would simply beat Campbell quicker than Rousey.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Mon 03 Aug 2015, 11:02 pm

I would suggest anyone jumping on the Rousey bandwagon has no clue about combat sport or is rating her purely to be as a 'modern man', women's MMA is a joke to be honest.

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Post by 3fingers Mon 03 Aug 2015, 11:06 pm

Most boxers can't punch from a tight clinch as they're unable to get leverage because their base position is compromised - they simply rabbit punch and slap to the ribs. In a grapple the boxer loses all advantage because his punching power is reduced to that of a mere mortal. Then it's game over.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Mon 03 Aug 2015, 11:08 pm

That ignores that Conor Mcgregor would have the strength to grapple a boxer whereas Rousey would be overpowered and tossed around like a ragdoll, it's the harsh truth of the matter. Also have to factor in that the boxer wouldn't have to hit Rousey with full force to knock her out; SHE'S A WOMEN.

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Post by 3fingers Mon 03 Aug 2015, 11:13 pm

Any world class female Judo/MMA competitor would have the ability to grapple most men who were untrained in grappling. i.e. a boxer. Its about technique, not strength.

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Post by 3fingers Mon 03 Aug 2015, 11:14 pm

Its similar to how an elite WOMAN sprinter, pole vaulter, cyclist, power lifter would all beat a MALE boxer in their respective disciplines.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Mon 03 Aug 2015, 11:16 pm

Strength plays a significant part in it, they simply don't have the ability to grapple most men, if they were men it would be a different matter but they're not.

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Post by 3fingers Mon 03 Aug 2015, 11:24 pm

I train 2hrs a day but I know an 81kg Female Judo expert could throw me to the floor, and I freely admit a trained female MMA athlete would tie me in knots on the floor. I'm presuming they would be the same weight as me because they'd have a similar body composition, thus they'd comparative strength especially considering their sports often require heavy weight training, particularly MMA.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Mon 03 Aug 2015, 11:32 pm

Strength is not at all comparative, a 9 stone man can lift more than a 12 stone women, that is in no way comparative, I think you need to train harder then.

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Post by 3fingers Mon 03 Aug 2015, 11:35 pm

Don't be silly hammer, you're obviously on a wind up. A 9 stone woman who trains for strength can lift more than a 9 stone man who doesn't.

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Post by kingraf Tue 04 Aug 2015, 1:46 am

True, but I'd be surprised if the average boxer doesn't train for strength. I've never seen a woman in the gym of a relative equal weight to a guy bench or squat anywhere near the same. It's not sexist, it's genetics. Vitamin T is a real thing. If a man and a woman are roughly the same size and musculature, chances are almost guaranteed that the man is probably stronger and faster. Extreme end female weight lifters are the exception (and even then, it's general public... not male weightlifting).... But we can't seriously be talking about Ronda in that lane?

One thing I would say, is that boxing/MMA, comparisons are generally useless because elite boxers simply aren't gonna enter the hexagon. Even from the floor, a world champion male boxer could probably still generate enough power to knock you out bare fisted for the simple reason that his shoulder girdle is incredibly stable. And his Type ii glycolytic muscle fibres explosiveness are probably off the chain.

I feel dirty just talking bad about Rousey. I'm gonna go watch her decapitate Correia again.
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Post by 3fingers Tue 04 Aug 2015, 7:19 am

Let's just get back to the point....a world class female judo competitor can throw a man, who is equal weight, and not a judo competitor to the ground. An elite female MMA competitor could out manoeuvre an untrained man on the floor, boxer or otherwise.

Most decent punchers could generate enough power to knock someone out if they are throwing while straddling from an upright position. Pull anyone in close and their power is reduced massively. A tactic in boxing is to get so close the opponent that he can't get his punches off, or if he does he is unable generate much power, relatively speaking. That's why you only see light rabbit punching and slaps to the ribs/kidney during a tight clinch in boxing, it's why the ref breaks. Its much easier to imitate this clinch position on the ground, not only that, on the ground the foundation  (the generator of power) is removed, further reducing punch power.

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Post by TopHat24/7 Tue 04 Aug 2015, 9:39 am

Some impressive misogyny on this thread......

WAR BOXING
BOXERS ARE THE GREATEST
NOBODY CAN BEAT A BOXER, ALL OTHER COMBAT SPORTS BOW DOWN...!!!!!

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Post by trottb Tue 04 Aug 2015, 9:40 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:That ignores that Conor Mcgregor would have the strength to grapple a boxer whereas Rousey would be overpowered and tossed around like a ragdoll, it's the harsh truth of the matter. Also have to factor in that the boxer wouldn't have to hit Rousey with full force to knock her out; SHE'S A WOMEN.

Women also have brains the size of squirrels... Rolling Eyes

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 04 Aug 2015, 9:42 am

trottb wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:That ignores that Conor Mcgregor would have the strength to grapple a boxer whereas Rousey would be overpowered and tossed around like a ragdoll, it's the harsh truth of the matter. Also have to factor in that the boxer wouldn't have to hit Rousey with full force to knock her out; SHE'S A WOMEN.

Women also have brains the size of squirrels...  Rolling Eyes

Maybe Adam could look at this guy's posting history...

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Post by AdamT Tue 04 Aug 2015, 9:43 am

TopHat24/7 wrote:Some impressive misogyny on this thread......

WAR BOXING
BOXERS ARE THE GREATEST
NOBODY CAN BEAT A BOXER, ALL OTHER COMBAT SPORTS BOW DOWN...!!!!!

MMA men can beat top boxers, no doubt! Not women. One hard jab and Ronda would be out! She would maybe win in the octagon, but them takedowns are sore on the knees, when trying it on pavement.

Her trademark is getting the clinch and using her judo. She uses boxing to get close to do that. Now think about it. The minute she starts using boxing to close the distance, she will be out cold.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 04 Aug 2015, 9:44 am

He's looking for a bite.....He's as big a troll as Strongy !!

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Post by trottb Tue 04 Aug 2015, 9:58 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
trottb wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:That ignores that Conor Mcgregor would have the strength to grapple a boxer whereas Rousey would be overpowered and tossed around like a ragdoll, it's the harsh truth of the matter. Also have to factor in that the boxer wouldn't have to hit Rousey with full force to knock her out; SHE'S A WOMEN.

Women also have brains the size of squirrels...  Rolling Eyes

Maybe Adam could look at this guy's posting history...

Maybe they should do for you what they did for D4. One Mayweather thread and you're only allowed to post about him in there. You could title it "TBE: Truss Bores Everyone"

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 04 Aug 2015, 10:03 am

Honestly just look at Trotty boys posting history...

It's all one line bitter spew and no sporting section on 606 is safe....

My advice.....Cheer up !! If you try to debate you may enjoy the experience... Cool thumbsup

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Post by trottb Tue 04 Aug 2015, 10:16 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Honestly just look at Trotty boys posting history...

It's all one line bitter spew and no sporting section on 606 is safe....

Whilst the allure of 35,000 posts, countless aliases,  abusing other posters if their opinions differ to your own and throwing random slurs when you're losing an argument does sound like the route of happiness, i'll have to decline. I'd reconsider if you'd regale us more with obscure 80's references and dull nationalistic pride.

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Post by TopHat24/7 Tue 04 Aug 2015, 10:18 am

AdamT wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:Some impressive misogyny on this thread......

WAR BOXING
BOXERS ARE THE GREATEST
NOBODY CAN BEAT A BOXER, ALL OTHER COMBAT SPORTS BOW DOWN...!!!!!

MMA men can beat top boxers, no doubt! Not women. One hard jab and Ronda would be out! She would maybe win in the octagon, but them takedowns are sore on the knees, when trying it on pavement.

Her trademark is getting the clinch and using her judo. She uses boxing to get close to do that. Now think about it. The minute she starts using boxing to close the distance, she will be out cold.

I've seen a woman (pretty tall, maybe 5'9", slim and not muscular) who was a highly trained judoka (she competed at Euro level whilst at Uni) batter a muscular local 'hard nut' guy who had some amateur boxing training.

Granted he was no pro, or anything close, but he significantly outweighed and 'out-strengthed' her and it was in a confiined situation without all the cosy rules that usually protect boxers. He was on his ask in seconds and she had him locked up.

But clearly everyone on here think skills and training mean nothing, strength and being a boxer is all that matters......... Rolling Eyes

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Post by Dipper Brown Tue 04 Aug 2015, 10:18 am

I heard their periods attract bears.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 04 Aug 2015, 10:24 am

It was in a ring the shape of a kitchen..

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Post by AdamT Tue 04 Aug 2015, 10:29 am

TopHat24/7 wrote:
AdamT wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:Some impressive misogyny on this thread......

WAR BOXING
BOXERS ARE THE GREATEST
NOBODY CAN BEAT A BOXER, ALL OTHER COMBAT SPORTS BOW DOWN...!!!!!

MMA men can beat top boxers, no doubt! Not women. One hard jab and Ronda would be out! She would maybe win in the octagon, but them takedowns are sore on the knees, when trying it on pavement.

Her trademark is getting the clinch and using her judo. She uses boxing to get close to do that. Now think about it. The minute she starts using boxing to close the distance, she will be out cold.

I've seen a woman (pretty tall, maybe 5'9", slim and not muscular) who was a highly trained judoka (she competed at Euro level whilst at Uni) batter a muscular local 'hard nut' guy who had some amateur boxing training.

Granted he was no pro, or anything close, but he significantly outweighed and 'out-strengthed' her and it was in a confiined situation without all the cosy rules that usually protect boxers. He was on his ask in seconds and she had him locked up.

But clearly everyone on here think skills and training mean nothing, strength and being a boxer is all that matters......... Rolling Eyes

Skills do mean a lot. She would kick the living sh1t out of me but, there is a big change she could be caught by someone the speed of Manny.

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Post by milkyboy Tue 04 Aug 2015, 10:50 am

3fingers wrote:She'd slam him to the floor with one of these take downs. 1 min onward...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUcriSZL8rI

Now i don't watch mma and i've never heard of ronda rousey. So i'm completely unqualified to make an opinion.  As usual I'm not going top let that bother me. I've just watched that clip. Now she looks like a bruiser, but a training session for the camera where the guy waits to be thrown hasn't really convinced me. I am happy to be convinced, as i can believe that once in a grapple situation she would throw an (untrained in that aspect boxer). My question would be whether she can get into that situation without having her head knocked off on the way in.

i'm not sure re the 100m examples etc fingers as boxing is still a combat sport. We're not asking if she could beat tyson gay.

My (largely irrelevant but i'll give it anyway) experience of male v female sports is that as a national top 10, 15 year old squash player i narrowly beat the women's world number 8. very narrowly if i recall correctly. At that age I'd be lucky to get a point off a similar ranked male. Now squash is a game where a minor advantage can result in a huge score discrepancy and its not a strength or combat sport obviously... but maybe a bit of a barometer of elite women's sport as a match up against men. When you look at athletics times etc, you see a roughly similar comparison.   Katie taylor did look like the best boxer at the 2012 olympics but how would she have done in the male comp? Would we imagine a top 15/16 year old MMA fighter would beat a male world champion boxer? I'd hazzard a guess its a similar argument.

Ultimately, could Rousey get inside to do the work where she has an advantage against an elite professional male boxer without succumbing to, or being heavily discouraged by the shots she took?  Like I said I don't watch MMA and boxers might not train to defend against a double leg takedown, for example, but they're not going to be standing in front waiting for it to happen.

In your example of the slim judoka and local hard guy fingers, what were the rules? Or was it just a typical night out in sunderland?

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 04 Aug 2015, 10:52 am

Kylie in fairness kicked some butt in street fighter.

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Post by Dipper Brown Tue 04 Aug 2015, 11:07 am

What makes it difficult to judge is that RR has hardly ever been in a fight. Such is her supremacy in the division that her 'fights' are glorified skill showcases. It's like watching someone juggle a football and guessing whether they're like as a player.

Obviously Ronda passes the eye test and looks elite in doing so but as she's peerless in her division it's difficult to judge where she is.

On a personal level, I think she's brilliant. Probably the next big crossover star in combat sports and I really like the unapologetic, no nonsense attitude.

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Post by Scottrf Tue 04 Aug 2015, 11:10 am

I feel like there should be some kind of register for men who watch female MMA.

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Post by milkyboy Tue 04 Aug 2015, 11:13 am

...there is, and it looks like we're on it scott whether we like it or not

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Post by TopHat24/7 Tue 04 Aug 2015, 11:24 am

milkyboy wrote:
3fingers wrote:She'd slam him to the floor with one of these take downs. 1 min onward...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUcriSZL8rI

In your example of the slim judoka and local hard guy fingers, what were the rules? Or was it just a typical night out in sunderland?

Lol it was Southampton actually Smile And as for rules, that's kind of the point, people are talking about male boxer versus female MMA in a boxing ring with boxing rules. I wouldn't even give that a second thought, boxer every time. And as I posted earlier, if she tried to box her way in, she'd be fooked. Have her 'head taken off' was, I think, the phrase I used. But the skills point is thus: what boxer can defend a take down when the oppo doesn't box their way in but just charges straight for the knees? Normally too high risk in MMA as a leg striker will whack you on the way in. But not a boxer.

Tbh, I generally buy into the mens versus womens sports point, I remember at school only girls played hockey and we had a pretty good women's team. One evening for training a bunch of the guys of the football team gave it a go and won.

But we're not just comparing men versus women here, we're talking 2 different skill sets and tailoring the situation to suit one and not the other. Being a stronger male doesn't counter-balance this, IMO.

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Post by Coxy001 Tue 04 Aug 2015, 11:37 am

This is a bit like saying some Asian tart shooting 65 round a 6,300 course could be top 100 in the world in the men's division.

She fights tarts who've been yanked out of the canteen and have little idea how to fight. She would be scared Poopie about getting her head ripped off her shoulders and so wouldn't fight a top 10 LWW anyway.

MMA is for people who thought WWF was real. Hitting someone when they're on the floor and cheering when that is happening is equatable to being a chav/utter moron/football oik/all of the above.

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Post by TopHat24/7 Tue 04 Aug 2015, 11:38 am

Dipper Brown wrote:What makes it difficult to judge is that RR has hardly ever been in a fight. Such is her supremacy in the division that her 'fights' are glorified skill showcases. It's like watching someone juggle a football and guessing whether they're like as a player.

Obviously Ronda passes the eye test and looks elite in doing so but as she's peerless in her division it's difficult to judge where she is.

On a personal level, I think she's brilliant. Probably the next big crossover star in combat sports and I really like the unapologetic, no nonsense attitude.

I'd like to see the Cyborg challenge.

Even at 140lbs, providing Cyborg is proven clean.

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Post by milkyboy Tue 04 Aug 2015, 11:58 am

TopHat24/7 wrote:
milkyboy wrote:
3fingers wrote:She'd slam him to the floor with one of these take downs. 1 min onward...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUcriSZL8rI

In your example of the slim judoka and local hard guy fingers, what were the rules? Or was it just a typical night out in sunderland?

Lol it was Southampton actually Smile And as for rules, that's kind of the point, people are talking about male boxer versus female MMA in a boxing ring with boxing rules.  I wouldn't even give that a second thought, boxer every time. And as I posted earlier, if she tried to box her way in, she'd be fooked. Have her 'head taken off' was, I think, the phrase I used. But the skills point is thus: what boxer can defend a take down when the oppo doesn't box their way in but just charges straight for the knees? Normally too high risk in MMA as a leg striker will whack you on the way in. But not a boxer.

Tbh, I generally buy into the mens versus womens sports point, I remember at school only girls played hockey and we had a pretty good women's team.  One evening for training a bunch of the guys of the football team gave it a go and won.

But we're not just comparing men versus women here, we're talking 2 different skill sets and tailoring the situation to suit one and not the other. Being a stronger male doesn't counter-balance this, IMO.

i presume (hope) most were assuming mma rules toppy. It's a relative unique argument because we're talking a combat sport scenario where the rules favour the skillset of the woman... but where boxing is a part of the subset.  does the male athlete's significant advantage in one facet, outweigh the female's broader skillset. In your scenario, would a professional boxer's footwork be good enough to avoid your charge straight for the knees... if they know that's the opponents only option? Like I said, I don't watch it, so I don;t know, just posing the question

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Post by AdamT Tue 04 Aug 2015, 12:16 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
Dipper Brown wrote:What makes it difficult to judge is that RR has hardly ever been in a fight. Such is her supremacy in the division that her 'fights' are glorified skill showcases. It's like watching someone juggle a football and guessing whether they're like as a player.

Obviously Ronda passes the eye test and looks elite in doing so but as she's peerless in her division it's difficult to judge where she is.

On a personal level, I think she's brilliant. Probably the next big crossover star in combat sports and I really like the unapologetic, no nonsense attitude.

I'd like to see the Cyborg challenge.

Even at 140lbs, providing Cyborg is proven clean.

Is RR clean?? I understand Cyborg has history but not sure RR is clean.

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Post by Scottrf Tue 04 Aug 2015, 12:18 pm

Is Cyborg a real person or hypothetical machine?

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Post by AdamT Tue 04 Aug 2015, 12:21 pm

She is a juiced up fighting machine and looks like an 80's MALE action star!

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Post by TopHat24/7 Tue 04 Aug 2015, 12:31 pm

Coxy001 wrote:This is a bit like saying some Asian tart shooting 65 round a 6,300 course could be top 100 in the world in the men's division.


No. It isn't. Because that's staying within one sporting sphere and set of rules. So it's not the same.

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Post by TopHat24/7 Tue 04 Aug 2015, 12:32 pm

milkyboy wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
milkyboy wrote:
3fingers wrote:She'd slam him to the floor with one of these take downs. 1 min onward...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUcriSZL8rI

In your example of the slim judoka and local hard guy fingers, what were the rules? Or was it just a typical night out in sunderland?

Lol it was Southampton actually Smile And as for rules, that's kind of the point, people are talking about male boxer versus female MMA in a boxing ring with boxing rules.  I wouldn't even give that a second thought, boxer every time. And as I posted earlier, if she tried to box her way in, she'd be fooked. Have her 'head taken off' was, I think, the phrase I used. But the skills point is thus: what boxer can defend a take down when the oppo doesn't box their way in but just charges straight for the knees? Normally too high risk in MMA as a leg striker will whack you on the way in. But not a boxer.

Tbh, I generally buy into the mens versus womens sports point, I remember at school only girls played hockey and we had a pretty good women's team.  One evening for training a bunch of the guys of the football team gave it a go and won.

But we're not just comparing men versus women here, we're talking 2 different skill sets and tailoring the situation to suit one and not the other. Being a stronger male doesn't counter-balance this, IMO.

i presume (hope) most were assuming mma rules toppy. It's a relative unique argument because we're talking a combat sport scenario where the rules favour the skillset of the woman... but where boxing is a part of the subset.  does the male athlete's significant advantage in one facet, outweigh the female's broader skillset. In your scenario, would a professional boxer's footwork be good enough to avoid your charge straight for the knees... if they know that's the opponents only option? Like I said, I don't watch it, so I don;t know, just posing the question

Rigo level footwork would be a strong defence, but that quality is few and far between, and certainly not evident in the LW boxers being discussed.

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Post by AdamT Tue 04 Aug 2015, 12:32 pm

Tophat If Ronda Rousey gets her hands on a LWW, she most likely wins, but if she gets hit, even once! It is all over, she will be out like a light.


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Post by Dipper Brown Tue 04 Aug 2015, 1:09 pm

Coxy001 wrote:This is a bit like saying some Asian tart shooting 65 round a 6,300 course could be top 100 in the world in the men's division.

She fights tarts who've been yanked out of the canteen and have little idea how to fight. She would be scared Poopie about getting her head ripped off her shoulders and so wouldn't fight a top 10 LWW anyway.

MMA is for people who thought WWF was real. Hitting someone when they're on the floor and cheering when that is happening is equatable to being a chav/utter moron/football oik/all of the above.

Fair play, you set the bar pretty high for ignorance, starting your post with 'some Asian tart'. Still managed to exceed yourself, mind.

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Post by Coxy001 Tue 04 Aug 2015, 2:26 pm

Dipper Brown wrote:
Coxy001 wrote:This is a bit like saying some Asian tart shooting 65 round a 6,300 course could be top 100 in the world in the men's division.

She fights tarts who've been yanked out of the canteen and have little idea how to fight. She would be scared Poopie about getting her head ripped off her shoulders and so wouldn't fight a top 10 LWW anyway.

MMA is for people who thought WWF was real. Hitting someone when they're on the floor and cheering when that is happening is equatable to being a chav/utter moron/football oik/all of the above.

Fair play, you set the bar pretty high for ignorance, starting your post with 'some Asian tart'. Still managed to exceed yourself, mind.

Thanks Smile

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Post by Scottrf Tue 04 Aug 2015, 2:28 pm

To be fair, that's more intelligent than any of coxy's posts on Roy Jones.

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Post by Coxy001 Tue 04 Aug 2015, 2:33 pm

To be fair Scott most of those are fairly serious, old Dippersh*t above didn't quite get the sense of sarcasm in my post above.

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