Nevermore: What the TNA Roster Could Be, ROH vs TNA Fans

http://v2wrestling.com/5/post/2015/08/nevermore-what-the-tna-roster-could-be-roh-vs-tna-fans.html


by Raven Effect

WHAT THE TNA ROSTER COULD POSSIBLY LOOK LIKE

 I don't think that it's any mystery that TNA is struggling at this time. The current roster (PPA or not) is not very good at all. They have lost so much talent and this is the worst the roster has ever been, plus they aren't being given much to work with as of late anymore. However, I believe that if talent is good enough that something can really be created out of nothing. A prime example of this is Bully Ray making an angle as bad as revolving around tables and making it really good TV. 

When we look at some of the talents that TNA has either let leave or talents they brought in but did not sign, if you add them to the current roster and maybe trim some talents like Robbie E, Steve, Melendez and Grado despite the costs of the actual roster, I do think the company would still be better off and would get better ratings, and probably be able to steadily remain on a network. Take the current roster and add the following: AJ Styles, Roderick Strong, Bad Influence, Samoa Joe, The Pope, Matt Morgan, Young Bucks, Motor City Machine Guns, Sonjay Dutt, Petey Williams, Trent Barretta, Jay Lethal, Magnus, Bully Ray, Austin Aries, Gunner, Crimson, Low-Ki, James Storm?, LAX, MVP, Sting (different role than an active wrestler), Mickie James, Cherry Bomb, Candice LaRae, Santana Garrett, Joey Ryan, Dalton Castle, Brian Cage, Ivelisse Velez, Rubix, and the following as managers: Scarlett, Veda Scott, Dr. James Mitchell. I think you could even take half of the best talents on the roster and cut the other half and add the talents above and I think the product gets better ratings and keeps a lot of former viewers tuned in. It's really sad that there are so many missed opportunities. I've never seen either of the two of them but apparently TNA had a shot at Seth Rollins and Dean Ambrose too. Plus, we all know Paul Heyman, Jim Ross and Bryan Danielson were almost TNA employees too. I'm also not counting Desmond Wolfe in this either.

Seriously everyone: How Frak awesome would BFG be this year in a four corners tag or full metal mayhem with The Wolves vs Bad Influence vs Young Bucks vs Motor City Machine Guns?

ROH TURNING DOWN TNA AND FILING CEASE AND DESIST AGAINST GFW AND ROH FANS VS FANS OF TNA

I like ROH a lot. I can't fully be a fully fledged die-hard ROH fan like I am with TNA because the indy-stuff, the lack of many real storylines (although I prefer more wrestling and less storylines) and the fact that WWE just raids them when they want to, and also really because it doesn't have that big organization feel to it. That said, I love the wrestling, I love a lot of the talent, love the crowd atmosphere on TV (I hate the "Frak TNA" chants), and I think Steve Corino is the best commentator on TV, and I love seeing Daniels and Kazarian on TV as well.

One thing that does drive me crazy is the ROH vs TNA fans 'rivalry.' This is the stupidest Poopie ever. This division and lack of support on both ends is literally hurting nothing but the wrestling industry as a whole which in turn just hurts the fans, and does more damage to both brands than benefiting one or the other. This isn't the 90's anymore despite how much I wish it still was. The Monday Night Wars are dead, WWE reminds us of this with DVD and Blu-Ray releases all the time (seriously this new documentary is good but extremely redundant and of course does as much as possible to make WWE look super flawless and WCW terrible, and apparently cuts out parts about WCW talents being buried intentionally). I believe that maybe if those fans just supported wrestling, and watched and supported each brand with an open mind then maybe both shows would have a better shot at staying on Destination America right now.

The real enemy for both TNA and ROH, as well as both respected fans of each individual organization is the WWE. The WWE raids ROH of whatever talents that they want. ROH does all of the work, and WWE uses them, scouts their talents and nabs up which one's they want to take to NXT. WWE occasionally mentions the fact that ROH exists and will put some of their stuff on actual WWE DVD releases from time to time, but that's it. It doesn't do a whole lot of benefit for ROH. WWE refuses to acknowledge TNA's existence in any way, shape or form. They basically shut the door on any talent that works for TNA to have a chance at ever working for the WWE except a handful of a few. Fans of TNA and ROH that don't like WWE, or at least want there to be some competition or both groups to thrive should be supportive of each other and maybe better things will happen for the business as a whole. 

So, here's the thing. I said I watch and really like ROH, but let me be clear: Frak ROH ownership, and management to all extremes. I'm still tuning in because I do want to support the talents there, but by them refusing to work with TNA they've only Frak both companies and are just allowing WWE to coast along off of their name and damage the business overall. If ROH would have worked with TNA, it would have been something that has never been done in wrestling before. It likely would have led to a boost in ratings for both shows entirely, and probably would have kept both shows on Destination America, made a wrestling show the most watched show on the network, and even possibly made a higher demand for people to want to subscribe to the channel itself. It opened a door for a huge opportunity for both companies to keep talent, or provide a legitimate place to be without ever having to go to WWE. It had the potential to create a legitimate boom period for wrestling again.

But, instead ROH declined. They would prefer to remain the small Indy federation that gets raided by WWE whenever they felt like it, and get a small mention from WWE every once in a while. It's not an entirely fair exchange. And why? Does ROH still hold a grudge for TNA taking their talents and 'misusing' them over ten years ago? TNA hasn't been guilty of anything like that in a long time, while WWE constantly does it. Was it because they wanted to do cut throat business and try and run TNA off of Destination America so that they can honestly claim to be number two? 

Karma came back around now ROH, looks like DA is losing more faith in them than they have with TNA. ROH will be left with Sinclair while TNA has nothing if this is this case. But, Sinclair isn't that great for them and is limited, some areas are better than others. In my area ROH airs only on Saturday evenings at 11:30pm. ROH could have really benefited from DA, but their decision to not evolve the business with TNA appears to have screwed both of them over. 

Truthfully, since they've been on DA I do not feel like ROH has put on any really good TV shows, while both shows needed to put up their 'A-Game' I felt like only TNA did that, and it was not very consistent. There were times when TNA was putting on a really good show but ROH would put on better shows from time to time, but it hasn't happened once since being on DA.

ROH decided to stay small time, and it looks like they'll be right back where they started. At least go down without a fight. Aren't you tired of WWE taking up all your talent whenever they feel like it ROH? Their partnership with NJPW is benefitting them in only one market. I don't feel that a partnership with NJPW is going to attract casual wrestling fans to ROH in the U.S. but I guarantee working with TNA and doing something that's never been done before would have got more people interested.

Hardcore TNA fan, and extreme definition of not a troll in every single aspect and a former commenter here in disguise recently said in a pleasant conversation on another website that doesn't condone trolling against TNA in the least bit (hint: that was all sarcasm) that many people love ROH because they can say they knew of or watched a certain talent before they made it to WWE. That to me, is like music where people know of or listen to a good musician or band when their music is great and appeals to an intelligent group of people before they sell out, dumb down their music and put out complete Poopie. Personally, I don't think it's cool that Avenged Sevenfold or Atreyu sold out and now put out trash after being Frak great for many years prior. I don't take pride in being a fan of them prior to today. I don't want people to even think I like their new music. That commenter has also admitted he still comes here every day just to read all of our comments. Again, what a life he leads!

Let's not forget that not too long ago, ROH sent their talents to Sinclair executives to cut wrestling style promo's explaining how they have a real opportunity to become the number two wrestling organization in America with TNA leaving Spike TV. For all the stupid things Dixie has done, I don't believe that going into a professional, business meeting with filthy rich, white-collar TV executives and letting the Briscoes talk to them has to top anything she has ever done. I'm sure those people who felt wrestling was low-brow got their minds changed with the meeting they sat through that day. How ROH ownership, management, and talents (well probably didn't faze the Briscoes) walked out of there with any dignity, or lack of humiliation is beyond me.

The other argument is that the TNA/ROH invasion or competition does not benefit ROH at all. GET THE FLYING Frak OUT OF HERE! Let me be clear, the only people who think ROH is number two are the obsolete members of the IWC who not only hate TNA because they're not named WWE and want them to die, or the hardcore ROH fans. People can and will rightfully throw in the Sinclair numbers which probably puts ROH a tad bit higher than TNA in the United States every week but if you add in the viewership that TNA gets internationally, hell just in the U.K. alone, TNA blows them out of the water. Working with number two gets more eyes on your talents and gets your name out there to a wider audience of casual viewers who tune in. 

I will give ROH the obvious victory when it comes to house shows and all because they do travel of course. But, the funny thing is that these venues they show are tiny as Frak for the most part. Impact Zone or not, free or not, I see a whole lot more people in the IZ than I do on a packed ROH show on TV. The ol' eye test doesn't fail too much. I'm sure ROH does better with PPV sales too but ROH also plugs and advertises their product. (Hey TNA, that is what you are supposed to do!) ROH plugs and advertises their PPV's and events more in their one hour show each week than TNA will for ONO for an entire year, and what TNA will do for one of their two or three live PPV's in the entire two months building to them.

Continuing on why this would benefit ROH, I've already stated the positives of gaining more viewers, getting people talking, potentially preventing WWE from raiding them, actually staying on Destination America, and growing their business in the United States. But, the last thing I can think of is potential International gain. TNA does very well internationally despite how many WWE sheep want to tell us and themselves that they don't do well over there or it's for reason 'X' that WWE isn't bigger than TNA there, etc. ROH likely gains an International presence in Asia and that's it. ROH would be getting their name, and their talent exposed to markets overseas that they are not even grazing right now. This could get more interest in their product, which could lead to touring, and potentially TV deals for more profit. ROH may have also gotten an opportunity to air a second hour of TV each week if the partnership with TNA were to attract the viewership it should have had the potential to reach.

Last thing on ROH management: They essentially told Jarrett and GFW to stop using their name on their shows. For one, how pathetically insecure are they to lose the limited plugs WWE gives them maybe once a year? They can continue to beat of WWE all that they want but they're not going to grow in that position at all. ROH needs to realize that they are not a big draw by any stretch of the imagination, and that GFW wasn't trying to gain money by mentioning their name with their talent. GFW actually would have been plugging ROH not trying to make money off of their name. Jarrett is taking GFW to arenas and stadiums and advertising the shows and I'm sure some very casual fans may show up to check it out and just see wrestling because it is something for them to do, or take their children for a fun time. A huge chunk of those people going are not part of the IWC and they have no Frak clue who or what ROH is. ROH has plenty of talents that can steal any show on any given night, exposing those talents and their name to people who may want to locate what channel they are on can only boost awareness. I really don't think there is a huge chunk of profit that Jeff Jarrett can gain by using a name in pro-wrestling that only a small amount of people outside the IWC (which is already a very small amount as it is) even know exists.

For God's sake, somebody put Raven in touch with TNA management!

Ditch Dixie, get shot of Gaburick...Raven is the man / person / bird to save TNA.


From what Raven's written, it could never happen, but I do like the idea of a partnership with another promotion. An on-screen feud or invasion angle between TNA and ROH [or insert promotion name here] could surely only help both companies at this point. Of course, it would have to be worked into a long-running saga, rather than a 1-off or short series of shows.

It could be a bit like WWF vs WCW...only instead of rival shows in a ratings battle, it would be a joint venture in a kayfabe battle for supremacy.

Of course, one problem with that (besides the obvious) is that TNA's creative team currently couldn't write a cheque...never mind a complex, long-running inter-promotional storyline.


C'mon Raven...wrestling needs you!

I enjoyed the previous 2 articles, but I have problems with this.

To me it is very easy to see why ROH would not do an invasion angle.
1) What are the dream matches ROH fans would want to see? There's so little TNA talent left, I don't see them.
2) Which organisation goes over? ROH would have to be saying "we win", would TNA really agree to that?
3) If TV companies can't work with TNA management, why would the management of a wrestling organisation?
4) Those TNA TV tapings sound so full on, is that a way ROH want to work.

I agree ROH should aim to be a higher profile organisation and they could do more to benefit from their DA time. But, I'm not at all surprised they didn't see an angle with TNA as beneficial.

Why would either company have to win?

You could easily do a long-running saga with one promotion getting the upper hand, then the other. If it needed to finish for any reason, you could simply set up some kind of screwy ending where neither can claim to have won the "war", or perhaps a series like the The Wolves / Team 3D / The Hardys tag team matches, with stipulations or prizes, that allow both companies to claim a victory of sorts.

I don't know exactly how that would work, but surely it wouldn't be beyond the wits of experienced wrestling writers?

I don't think it would be a good thing for either company to go over the other, as both are trying to grow their business and fanbase nand neither can afford to look weak. I think a respectful stalemate would be the best outcome...if not necessarily the most satisfying for the fans.

Do agree with your other two points though. TNA's management appears to be the biggest stumbling block to progress at the moment. Also, if a joint venture were to happen, both companies would need to agree beforehand how it would work...house shows, TV tapings or a mix of the two.

dyrewolfe wrote:Why would either company have to win?

You could easily do a long-running saga with one promotion getting the upper hand, then the other. If it needed to finish for any reason, you could simply set up some kind of screwy ending where neither can claim to have won the "war", or perhaps a series like the The Wolves / Team 3D / The Hardys tag team matches, with stipulations or prizes, that allow both companies to claim a victory of sorts.

Stories need to conclude, especially big stories like this one.  Can you imagine if the Invasion angle just ended without explanation?  Or when it came down to Austin vs The Rock in the Survivor Series match both men were counted out and it was called a draw?

If we're in a scenario where neither side can go over the other then it shouldnt happen. Simple as that.

Prometheus wrote:
3) If TV companies can't work with TNA management, why would the management of a wrestling organisation?

This.

Dixie is an incompetent wrestling owner/promoter. I am fully convinced of this now. She is bad for business, because she can't work with people in the industry and doesn't know how to promote her own company. This is probably the biggest reason ROH don't want to associate with TNA; they probably couldn't come to a reasonable agreement with Dixie.

I read recently (can't remember where) that back in 2009 Panda wanted to bring in Jim Ross and Jim Cornette, but Dixie chose Hogan and Bischoff instead. People talk about what if Paul Heyman had been brought in, but I think JR and JC could have done a great job too. Both are a little more old school, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. The quality of impact would have been amazing and you can be sure the talent acquisition would have been great too. The roster would be in much better shape and probably their TV deal too.

Samo wrote:

dyrewolfe wrote:Why would either company have to win?

You could easily do a long-running saga with one promotion getting the upper hand, then the other. If it needed to finish for any reason, you could simply set up some kind of screwy ending where neither can claim to have won the "war", or perhaps a series like the The Wolves / Team 3D / The Hardys tag team matches, with stipulations or prizes, that allow both companies to claim a victory of sorts.

Stories need to conclude, especially big stories like this one.  Can you imagine if the Invasion angle just ended without explanation?  Or when it came down to Austin vs The Rock in the Survivor Series match both men were counted out and it was called a draw?

If we're in a scenario where neither side can go over the other then it shouldnt happen.  Simple as that.

Oh I agree it would need a conclusion...just not one where either company could claim victory over the other.

For example, on last weekend's show - the first head-to-head between TNA and GFW, TNA wrestlers won the first couple of matches, there was a double count-out (draw) in the Tapa vs Kong match and GFW won the main event KOTM match. Basically both companies claimed a share of the spoils...

Also WWE wouldn't do that sort of ending because they don't need to. They are far and away the biggest promotion out there and don't really have any competition.

We're talking here about two small promotions trying to grow...possibly to the point they can stand alone. I would argue that for them to look strong and remain relevant, neither can afford to look weak (i.e. lose the war). Of course there can be lots of back and forth with both having the upper hand at times, but if and when the partnership ends, I think it needs to as equals.