Federer's return tactic

First topic message reminder :

Now that Cininnati is over. Maybe this topic should have a thread of it's own?

Disgraceful gamesmanship from Federer, how dare he take the second serve on early, he should be forced to hit that medium pace backhand slice that I always loved.

He's also apparently planning to practice his drop shots, in another shocking attempt to match Kyrgios in the gamesmanship stakes.

Sarcasm aside,


30 seconds in
the only other time ive seen such an odd returning position. Nobody suggested Chang did anything wrong, but like his underarm serve, not everybody was so hot on it.

Technically the under arm serve is a very odd but ok tactic, but its often derided, can I assume that were at least OK with that one in theory as well?

temporary21 wrote:

........................................

If someone doesnt share your view, that is not an automatic vote for dislike or hatred of what you stand for, they might just not be as interested or excited. Hence why the exasperation causes so much confusion to them.

Seems to me that one thing that certainly does cause confusion is to see a forum member open up a new thread for a previously-discussed topic, on the basis that the said topic deserves "a thread of its own" ; but that same member then displays a strange unwillingness to either a) respond to simple relevant questions from other members or b) produce clarification or evidence in support of dubious claims.

Not only confusion - but incredulity too.

That said, it is also probably quite unsurprising to many of us longstanding members to witness this, given that it is not without precedent.

102 replies suggest that it was interesting enough to have its own thread. Anyway its taken its course now.

temporary21 wrote:Natural, as in it tends to be done just by accident, with no malice involved. Hence its wrong to take offense at it as though its deceitful. If someone tells you an untruth that they dont know about, thats not deceit.

If someone doesnt share your view, that is not an automatic vote for dislike or hatred of what you stand for, they might just not be as interested or excited. Hence why the exasperation causes so much confusion to them.

That's not the definition of natural.

Semantics, its something people do without thinking. also It doesnt matter

stop deleting my lovely comments!!!

Think you've missed my point temp.

No issue with the thread per se.

I was highlighting the reluctance of the thread-originator to answer simple questions.

No actual obligation to respond to questions I guess. But it sure devalues any comments/assertions made by the originator, whilst damaging their long-term credibility in the process.

Oh right, fair enough, theres that too
For what its worth, I havent seen any widespread derision either, my opinions the minority it seems, but one sided debates arent that good anyway.

temporary21 wrote:Semantics, its something people do without thinking. also It doesnt matter

So the definition of the words we use don't matter?

What do we do next? Use hand signals?

If the points gotten across, then I dont think it matters.

... guess we could try hand signals

Players move all the time to run around the backhand on second serve, what's the difference? Rafa starts stamping just before a serve too, I don't think he's doing that to put the server off, he's getting ready to react, but it could be judged as hindrance too.

I don't actually think the tactic itself has long-term benefits. It's working now because its a relatively fresh idea. I'd think that a kick serve to the Federer backhand would cause weak/non returns. This would be the benefit of the strategy I'd think. Making an opponent unsure of whether to serve short and let it rear up on the half volley. If they do that, they risk dropping really short second serves when Federer stays back

There are players who move backwards away from the baseline when big servers are involved. What nomenclature should be used for such an approach to a return?

IMVHO, grunting is much more distracting than adjusting one's return position. I had much rather watch Stosur or Kirilenko play than Azarenka or Sharapova.

Temp, I see that Jahu's thread has now disappeared. Just wanted to repost my comment re what you said about Jahu winding people up in that now-deleted thread.

"Must respectfully disagree. I think you, Temp, wind people up MORE by implying/insisting Federer caused "hinderance" with his new return approach, while most of the tennis world sees it as yet another breath-taking illustration of Roger's tennis genius."

Just my humble opinion, no ill-will, hope you're ok with it. 

In fairness to temp least his opinion doesn't come with a hows your father!

Dump in front of them 

laverfan wrote:There are players who move backwards away from the baseline when big servers are involved. What nomenclature should be used for such an approach to a return?

IMVHO, grunting is much more distracting than adjusting one's return position. I had much rather watch Stosur or Kirilenko play than Azarenka or Sharapova.

Did you leave Kirilenko in there because she's a hottie but grunts?

Yes, plus Tempo "lied" before Adam that I am winding people up, when in fairness it was only me requesting tempo relinquish his Mod duties for a week, due to his irrational and embarrassingly non-mod behavior for last few days.

Now surely Adam has to defend  him, for the greater good of Mods.

But I for once, did not wind up anyone as I was not talking to anyone else, just tempo.

I dont mind any of the bans I ever got from JHM and LF as they we rightly given so, but this one from tempo is a joke.

Quit being a Mod for a week and go chill, save face, have you got no man decency left in you?

Embarrassing.

LuvSports! wrote:

laverfan wrote:There are players who move backwards away from the baseline when big servers are involved. What nomenclature should be used for such an approach to a return?

IMVHO, grunting is much more distracting than adjusting one's return position. I had much rather watch Stosur or Kirilenko play than Azarenka or Sharapova.

Did you leave Kirilenko in there because she's a hottie but grunts?

I wanted to check if anyone was a) paying attention, and, b) wanted to get the attention of the male posters. Very LS!

Hehe, my girl sensai Jahu has taught me well

Jahu2 wrote:Yes, plus Tempo "lied" before Adam that I am winding people up, when in fairness it was only me requesting tempo relinquish his Mod duties for a week, due to his irrational and embarrassingly non-mod behavior for last few days.

Now surely Adam has to defend  him, for the greater good of Mods.

But I for once, did not wind up anyone as I was not talking to anyone else, just tempo.

I dont mind any of the bans I ever got from JHM and LF as they we rightly given so, but this one from tempo is a joke.

Quit being a Mod for a week and go chill, save face, have you got no man decency left in you?

Embarrassing.

Can we talk PM, so threads can be a bit less personal and less divisive? Please .

Jahu you need some Aquagel and a tube sock!

LF you know I never protested my bans from you or JHM, i stayed put and got my punishment.

But this one is purely of spite from tempo, for no reason.

With you on PM, only after a (well behaved from my side) dinner date together

legendkillarV2 wrote:Jahu you need some Aquagel and a tube sock!

Drop in some Kool Aid and a pack of Milano american cookies

LF, can't PM you, it says:

You have been abused by tempo and you are too ugly for this forum.

(You haven't reached the post limit for sending private messages)

Jahu2 wrote:LF you know I never protested my bans from you or JHM, i stayed put and got my punishment. But this one is purely of spite from tempo, for no reason.

T2 is trying her best to keep the conversation away from any personal clashes.

Jahu2 wrote:With you on PM, only after a (well behaved from my side) dinner date together

You have one. and I will bring some Italian Biscotti from the nearest Costco. Will that work?

BTW, how is your baking? Any new recipes that you want to share?

Jahu2 wrote:LF, can't PM you, it says:

You have been abused by tempo  and you are too ugly for this forum.

(You haven't reached the post limit for sending private messages)

Your new persona has not been recognized as an alter-ego of the old one. Computers can be too literal, and cannot tell the similarities between Jahu and Jahu2.

Get a few more posts (civil, if I may request) and you can send PMs?

LF, I am very sure you don't do your shopping at Costco, more of a Whole Foods Market rich lady, kind of Frasier picky shopper in fancy French little shops

Anything works from you

Tempo has been naughty to me and to all Fed fans this week.

My waffle iron broke, ordered Cuisinart waffle plates to go with my Cuisinart American grill, so will post some anti-Djoko waffles this weekend after they arrive from NYC

Don't tame me now with food and romance

Ok the 2 has gone sleeping

I don't know where to go from here.

I like how Jahu2's join date was a year ago. Had a back up planned for such an eventuality

Have a pint of ice cold (insert your fav drink) and lets get back to normal.

I think Adam has banned tempo

But it says she's online

kingraf wrote:I like how Jahu2's join date was a year ago. Had a back up planned for such an eventuality

Hahahah, cheeky boy

Ok I say sorry for the mess I did at the forum, forgive me Mods

kingraf wrote:I don't actually think the tactic itself has long-term benefits. It's working now because its a relatively fresh idea. I'd think that a kick serve to the Federer backhand would cause weak/non returns. This would be the benefit of the strategy I'd think. Making an opponent unsure of whether to serve short and let it rear up on the half volley. If they do that, they risk dropping really short second serves when Federer stays back

This is exactly it! Exactly what Federer means!

kingraf wrote:But it says she's online

She? She is female?

God save the Queen, for I'm an immature, sexist goit.

Jahu you should count yourself lucky!

If it was me, for all the spamming you have done I would've as punishment made you take a bombardment of tinned spam from the posters here!

Here is Novak's rsponse to it...

I have a soft spot both for Hawkeye and for Temp. It must be the attraction of the opposites......

And his return positioning!

LK, do you mean the SPAM meat thingy in tinned can?

Oh no, thats a disaster of a food.

I no more problem make

You do realise temp is not of the female persuasion

Post match interview on it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5WAx2jrd70

Luv, so does Djokos tone with I have no comment mean it was a dodgy thing?

Jahu wrote:LK, do you mean the SPAM meat thingy in tinned can?

Oh no, thats a disaster of a food.

I no more problem make

Indeed I do!

I'd even throw in the greasy spam fritter for good measure!

I have a soft spot for HawkEye. Reminds me of my girlfriend a bit. Or a caricature of my girlfriend.

LK you are a gastronomique disaster, but at least you are good looking

Jahu you seem to have a hard spot for everyone!