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How to Fix International Rugby...

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Geordie
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How to Fix International Rugby... Empty How to Fix International Rugby...

Post by GunsGerms Thu 03 Sep 2015, 4:07 pm

Step 1. Referee the hind most foot/offside law properly.

Step 2. see step 1.

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Post by GunsGerms Thu 03 Sep 2015, 4:09 pm

Seriously though why dont refs penalise teams that are constantly offside? Why arent linesmen speaking up?

It would encourage more running open rugby and less kicking. Thats what the law is there for.

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Post by Submachine Thu 03 Sep 2015, 4:54 pm

There are too many rucks and too many variables at a ruck for a ref to always make the right call. At a conservative estimate there are between 80-100 ruck per game. Each ruck will have been preceded by a tackle. So the refs order of priorities at the tackle are
1. safety of players (legal tackle)
2. tackler roll away
3. ball carrier release
4. attempted jackler, through the gate, on his feet, was a ruck formed before he attempted to jackal the ball
5. players joining the ruck, through the gate, on their feet
6. all other players behind the hindmost foot.

I speak from experience albeit reffing underage games but even at that level it is nigh on impossible to police every ruck to the letter of the law.

As long as the ref applies his interpretation of the breakdown to both sides then neither team can have any complaints. That doesn’t hold for fans however. We can bitch about it all we like.

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Post by GunsGerms Thu 03 Sep 2015, 4:59 pm

Why arent the linesmen there to police offside then like they do in football? Is that offside line is policed properly the quality of games will improve.

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Post by Engine#4 Thu 03 Sep 2015, 7:42 pm

Agreed, this has driven me mad in a couple of matches against France and Wales this year. Though probably because it works against Ireland more than in their favour. Our defensive line isn't as quick up as some.

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Post by Submachine Thu 03 Sep 2015, 10:29 pm

GunsGerms wrote:Why arent the linesmen there to police offside then like they do in football? Is that offside line is policed properly the quality of games will improve.

Because the ref has discretion. He will most often issue a warning if a defender is offside at a ruck where the ball is slow to emerge, allowing him an opportunity to get back onside and maintaining the space for the attack. In the same situation where the offside player is potentially stifling a quick recycle attack, the ref will first play advantage and if none accrues, only then does he blow his whistle. Assuming of course that he notices the offside player in the first place. But I actually kind of like that aspect of the game. Back rows especially, pushing it to the absolute limit.
The idea of giving that power to the assistant would take away from the flow as the game would have to be stopped every time he raised his flag. Just like in football.
Defences have become too dominant but thats always the way until some bright spark coach comes up with something new to unlock them.

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Post by jimbopip Thu 03 Sep 2015, 10:40 pm

Not so long ago Glasgow Warriors played the Osprey's at Scotstoun. At a very early scrum (second or third to collapse) the ref yellow carded a prop from each side ( Adam Jones and Ryan Grant if memory serves me right). When they retirned he said words to the effect that either we had completed scrums or there would be red cards. Unsurprisingly we then had no more collapsed scrums. We also saw a very good game of rugby.

How to Fix International rugby....

Apply the laws.

Especially crooked feeds, collapsed scrums, being a Kiwi flanker.

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Post by Guest Thu 03 Sep 2015, 10:50 pm

Yeah I agree with you Submachine. I was going to suggest a TMO could get involved but that would be a terrible idea. There'd be few sports where a referee can have such an influence on the overall 'vibe' of a game. I think that's part of rugby's charm. Players work out a referee and play accordingly.

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Post by offload Thu 03 Sep 2015, 10:51 pm

jimbopip wrote:
Apply the laws.

clap

Simple really.
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Post by Submachine Thu 03 Sep 2015, 10:53 pm

Again Jim, much easier to spot or pretend to spot in most refs cases infringements by props at a scrum. A ruck is such a chaotic beast it's very difficult to spot the flankers in their capes of invisibility.
You can only hope your lads buy theirs in the same shop.

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Post by blackcanelion Fri 04 Sep 2015, 6:25 am

how to "fix" international rugby.

Some simple suggestions.

1. Remove the FRU and RU from the committees within World Rugby and exclude their representatives from holding any positions.
2. Ensure that only NZ and SA referees can referee internationals.
3. Decisions by officials should be based on integrity. I.e. the All Blacks don't cheat but their opposition does constantly.
4. Rugby Nations should be compensated by transfer fees for players playing overseas (except NZ, where the Tonga, Samoa and Fiji should be recognised as provinces).
5. Clubs should be docked points/ and players banned if they are unavailable for their national team.
6. Players born outside the 6 nations should never be able to qualify for a 6 nations side, for any reason.

Think that "fixes" it... Rolling Eyes





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Post by blackcanelion Fri 04 Sep 2015, 6:29 am

blackcanelion wrote:how to "fix" international rugby.

Some simple suggestions.

1. Remove the FRU and RU from the committees within World Rugby and exclude their representatives from holding any positions.
2. Ensure that only NZ and SA referees can referee internationals.
3. Decisions by officials should be based on integrity. I.e. the All Blacks don't cheat but their opposition does constantly.
4. Rugby Nations should be compensated by transfer fees for players playing overseas (except NZ, where the Tonga, Samoa and Fiji should be recognised as provinces).
5. Clubs should be docked points/ and players banned if they are unavailable for their national team.
6. Players born outside the 6 nations should never be able to qualify for a 6 nations side, for any reason.

Think that "fixes" it... Rolling Eyes





Should add to that:
7. World Rugby should ensure that NZ should never play France in a knock out game in a world cup.
8. World Rugby should ensure that should the world cup be held in SA that all persons with the name "Suzie" should be held in protective custody for the duration of the tournament.

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Post by GunsGerms Fri 04 Sep 2015, 8:14 am

Submachine wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:Why arent the linesmen there to police offside then like they do in football? Is that offside line is policed properly the quality of games will improve.

Because the ref has discretion. He will most often issue a warning if a defender is offside at a ruck where the ball is slow to emerge, allowing him an opportunity to get back onside and maintaining the space for the attack. In the same situation where the offside player is potentially stifling a quick recycle attack, the ref will first play advantage and if none accrues, only then does he blow his whistle. Assuming of course that he notices the offside player in the first place. But I actually kind of like that aspect of the game. Back rows especially, pushing it to the absolute limit.
The idea of giving that power to the assistant would take away from the flow as the game would have to be stopped every time he raised his flag. Just like in football.
Defences have become too dominant but thats always the way until some bright spark coach comes up with something new to unlock them.

Yes he does but he needs to start listening to his linesmen or they are going to need to start speaking up. Either way the volume of offsides in some games is farcical and ruins the game IMO.

Like any penalty if it is enforced properly and penalised accordingly teams will stop getting penalised for it as they become more aware of it.

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Post by donglewood Fri 04 Sep 2015, 8:23 am

The desire to be a referee should preclude you forever from being one.

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Post by GunsGerms Fri 04 Sep 2015, 8:28 am

donglewood wrote:The desire to be a referee should preclude you forever from being one.

That sounds like something Steve Walsh would tattoo to his arm.

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Post by Geordie Fri 04 Sep 2015, 9:06 am

5. Clubs should be docked points/ and players banned if they are unavailable for their national team.
That's actually one that should be in place.

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Post by GunsGerms Fri 04 Sep 2015, 9:12 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:
5. Clubs should be docked points/ and players banned if they are unavailable for their national team.
That's actually one that should be in place.

I agree with this too. However, you cant stop someone retiring unfortunately. You possibly should be able to IMO.

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Post by kingelderfield Sat 12 Sep 2015, 7:51 am

I do fear this WC becoming a penalty kick festival with the resultant effect of more than a minutes open play being lost on each occasion.

Refs need to be stronger with their use of cards but also I do believe the 60 seconds allowed by the kicker should be reduced to 30

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Post by eirebilly Sat 12 Sep 2015, 2:07 pm

The advantage rule is one that really annoys me, so many refs have so many interpretations and as such it is the most inconsistent ruling in the game. Not sure how to fix it or police it though, it just annoys me that certain ref's carry on an advantage for an eternity and some call it over after 15 seconds...
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Post by Biltong Sat 12 Sep 2015, 2:21 pm

blackcanelion wrote:
blackcanelion wrote:how to "fix" international rugby.

Some simple suggestions.

1. Remove the FRU and RU from the committees within World Rugby and exclude their representatives from holding any positions.
2. Ensure that only NZ and SA referees can referee internationals.
3. Decisions by officials should be based on integrity. I.e. the All Blacks don't cheat but their opposition does constantly.
4. Rugby Nations should be compensated by transfer fees for players playing overseas (except NZ, where the Tonga, Samoa and Fiji should be recognised as provinces).
5. Clubs should be docked points/ and players banned if they are unavailable for their national team.
6. Players born outside the 6 nations should never be able to qualify for a 6 nations side, for any reason.

Think that "fixes" it... Rolling Eyes





Should add to that:
7. World Rugby should ensure that NZ should never play France in a knock out game in a world cup.
8. World Rugby should ensure that should the world cup be held in SA that all persons with the name "Suzie" should be held in protective custody for the duration of the tournament.

Considering how easy it is to change your name in SA best will be to keep all teams in quaranteen until they have to run onto the field.
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Post by donglewood Sat 12 Sep 2015, 2:53 pm

I bet you dollars to dingos that the cup is adjudicated in a manner totally devoid of any reminiscence to anything we've witnessed in the past four years.

This is what climbs on my tent and shags at my pole.

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Post by blackcanelion Sat 12 Sep 2015, 11:41 pm

Biltong wrote:
blackcanelion wrote:
blackcanelion wrote:how to "fix" international rugby.

Some simple suggestions.

1. Remove the FRU and RU from the committees within World Rugby and exclude their representatives from holding any positions.
2. Ensure that only NZ and SA referees can referee internationals.
3. Decisions by officials should be based on integrity. I.e. the All Blacks don't cheat but their opposition does constantly.
4. Rugby Nations should be compensated by transfer fees for players playing overseas (except NZ, where the Tonga, Samoa and Fiji should be recognised as provinces).
5. Clubs should be docked points/ and players banned if they are unavailable for their national team.
6. Players born outside the 6 nations should never be able to qualify for a 6 nations side, for any reason.

Think that "fixes" it... Rolling Eyes





Should add to that:
7. World Rugby should ensure that NZ should never play France in a knock out game in a world cup.
8. World Rugby should ensure that should the world cup be held in SA that all persons with the name "Suzie" should be held in protective custody for the duration of the tournament.

Considering how easy it is to change your name in SA best will be to keep all teams in quaranteen until they have to run onto the field.

Wink

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Post by aucklandlaurie Sun 13 Sep 2015, 12:33 am

blackcanelion wrote:
blackcanelion wrote:how to "fix" international rugby.

Some simple suggestions.

1. Remove the FRU and RU from the committees within World Rugby and exclude their representatives from holding any positions.
2. Ensure that only NZ and SA referees can referee internationals.
3. Decisions by officials should be based on integrity. I.e. the All Blacks don't cheat but their opposition does constantly.
4. Rugby Nations should be compensated by transfer fees for players playing overseas (except NZ, where the Tonga, Samoa and Fiji should be recognised as provinces).
5. Clubs should be docked points/ and players banned if they are unavailable for their national team.
6. Players born outside the 6 nations should never be able to qualify for a 6 nations side, for any reason.

Think that "fixes" it... Rolling Eyes





Should add to that:
7. World Rugby should ensure that NZ should never play France in a knock out game in a world cup.
8. World Rugby should ensure that should the world cup be held in SA that all persons with the name "Suzie" should be held in protective custody for the duration of the tournament.

Should add to that:
8. Let half backs put the ball in under his locks feet when feeding the scrum, we want to see rugby not scrums.

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