Quality game on 22 minutes gone 3 - 7 Osp Lein

First topic message reminder :

20 odd minutes of fantastic compelling rugby. High skill levels, real bite and physicality in very wet conditions.

Great try to boot!

Plus obviously Biggar versus Sexton

Rev, do you remember when Ireland last played Wales? We beat them. In the dying minutes Ireland were charging at our line but we managed to hold them up when they finally crossed. The TMO clearly showed it was held up and that decision was met with around 60,000 boos - bad sportsmanship creeping into the Irish game there.

mikey_dragon wrote:Rev, do you remember when Ireland last played Wales? We beat them. In the dying minutes Ireland were charging at our line but we managed to hold them up when they finally crossed. The TMO clearly showed it was held up and that decision was met with around 60,000 boos - bad sportsmanship creeping into the Irish game there.

I hope everyone here understands the difference between booing a decision and accusing the ref of being a cheat...

Sure there's a difference, but why condemn one and not the other? For years the Welsh would receive a roasting for booing, I'm not sure why it took so long for you all to realise that it wasn't just a welsh problem.

mikey_dragon wrote:Sure there's a difference, but why condemn one and not the other? For years the Welsh would receive a roasting for booing, I'm not sure why it took so long for you all to realise that it wasn't just a welsh problem.

I've never seen anyone on here complain about the booing (I'm sure some have on here), it's something all fans do.

FFS, here we go, I was skimming through this forum on the weekend, I did not put anything on here, but reading this again this morning really grips my shoite.

The type of things that some of the Irish put on here are so patronising it is unreal. The Irish are so frigging perfect aren't they....

I'll tell you what, if Irish rugby was not based around cheating then we would not be in this predicament in the first place, Irish rugby is so negative and anti-rugby but to listen to some of you lot, you have it all sorted.

Irish rugby is all based on spoiling at the breakdown, cheating at the scrums, choke tackles and the what not. Instead of Irish teams blatantly taking the field with the attitude of how to bend the laws at every opportunity perhaps they should take the attitude of taking the field to abide and respect the laws, then we would not be in this position.

But no, lets all swallow the crap we are being peddled:-

1. The Irish fans NEVER boo the kickers.
2. Irish players never cheat.
3. Irish players never breach the laws.
4. Irish fans are the most knowledgeable and fair fans in the world.
5. Irish fans always behave in the most gentlemen of manner.
6. Irish rugby has the best set-up in the world.
7. Every one should follow the Irish blue print.
8. Irish fans never complain about referee's.
9. The coaches and players of Irish teams always respect the referee.
10. Anything that is wrong in the Pro12, is nothing to do with the Irish. It is ALL everybody else's fault
11. Ireland is the shangri-la of northern hemisphere rugby.

Feel free to add anymore if you can think of any. I am fed up to the back teeth of being patronised by some of the Irish members on this forum, FFS, get down off your high horse and take a closer look at yourselves before you start finger pointing.

That looks as if it has been written by a petulant child. Calm down. The complaint was against certain welsh fans chanting cheat at the referee. I can't point the finger at any other set of fans in the Pro 12 as I haven't noticed it from anyone else yet. I'm sure you will let me know immediately when it happens.

You yourself have complained that the Ulster crowd is thuggish. I haven't said anything of the sort about the welsh fans. I have said I wish they didn't call the referee a cheat. You expect others to just accept your criticism but you can't handle any towards yourself.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:That looks as if it has been written by a petulant child. Calm down. The complaint was against certain welsh fans chanting cheat at the referee. I can't point the finger at any other set of fans in the Pro 12 as I haven't noticed it from anyone else yet. I'm sure you will let me know immediately when it happens.

You yourself have complained that the Ulster crowd is thuggish. I haven't said anything of the sort about the welsh fans. I have said I wish they didn't call the referee a cheat. You expect others to just accept your criticism but you can't handle any towards yourself.

Rory, firstly I have taken my thuggish claim back and apologised for it, I said it in the heat of the of the moment, I have since taken it back.

Secondly, it is all the time, I have to listen to how perfect the Irish are, for all the points I have stated above, if the Irish sides did not give the fans an opportunity to chant cheat, then they wouldn't. Irish rugby is anti rugby, address that and you will have your problem solved.

Still a touch strong. Anti rugby? You mean not free flowing Baa Baas stuff?

Rory_Gallagher wrote: I haven't said anything of the sort about the welsh fans. I have said I wish they didn't call the referee a cheat .

And I wish the Irish fans wouldn't preach for god given silence, then Boo when things don't go their way.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Still a touch strong. Anti rugby? You mean not free flowing Baa Baas stuff?

They've always played anti-rugby. Leinster of old excluded. Ti's the Irish way. Can't knock em for it, if that's how they win games, good luck to them. But lets not pretend it's anything but tedious and cynical.

What exactly is anto rugby? That is what I'm getting at.

No 7&1/2 wrote:What exactly is anto rugby? That is what I'm getting at.

Lord Dowlais has already given examples above. It's based on how to stop the opposition playing rugby, rather than how to play positive rugby yourself. The Munster team won several Euro cups based on it.

Ah, right. So if you don't attack or try to all the time it's anti rugby. Like Ireland and Wales. Got you.

Yup

No 7&1/2 wrote:What exactly is anto rugby? That is what I'm getting at.

Anti rugby, to me is, constantly being cynical, always looking for ways to cheat the laws. Irish rugby is notorious for this type of play. I think it get's called, being "streetwise". The worst ever scar on rugby at the moment is the choke tackle, guess where that was perfected ?

If the Irish rugby teams played to the laws then we would not be in this predicament.

LordDowlais wrote: The worst ever scar on rugby at the moment is the choke tackle, guess where that was perfected ?

I don't even know how it is legal? You can't grab a players neck in a croc roll, but you CAN in a choke tackle? Also, lots of these choke tackles (not all) become mauls that are then pulled down, which I thought was illegal?

Right ok, can't really agree that Irish teams are the only teams to push the laws. I know the English do as well. Every international team that I've seen does it. Bit of an over reaction maybe?

A choke tackle around the neck is illegal Chunky.

No 7&1/2 wrote:can't really agree that Irish teams are the only teams to push the laws

No disrespect No 7&1/2, but you do not watch as much Pro12 rugby as myself, you are not seeing it every week like I do, until you start watching Celtic rugby every week then how can you be in a position to make that claim ?

Also, I did not say they are the ONLY teams that do it, but they are the ONLY teams who base their game plan on it, their remit must be, to get away with as much as possible to gain an advantage, where as other go out and just play to the laws as best they can. When I watch teams from other nations, I do not see them CONSTANTLY spoiling the game. Ireland for years, even when I was a child were "known" for thier spoiling.

I watch the Aviva so i can tell you that. I watch European rugby and internationals. I watch bits and pieces of the French, Pro 12 and Super Rugby. I see that teams from everywhere will do what they can get away with. I also don't see it as anti rugby, call it negative fair enough but it is a legitimate tactic. From points of view throughout the years, scrums and Lineout drives have been called anti rugby. Are they? Or do we just have to recognise for every team that run the ball from their 22 there's a team who will prefer to play without the ball in their oppositions 22? It's all part of the varied tactics which personally draws me to rugby. Don't get me wrong it's frustrating to see sometimes when you think there are better ways to do it but differing styles can make epic matches.

LordDowlais wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:can't really agree that Irish teams are the only teams to push the laws

No disrespect No 7&1/2, but you do not watch as much Pro12 rugby as myself, you are not seeing it every week like I do, until you start watching Celtic rugby every week then how can you be in a position to make that claim ?

Also, I did not say they are the ONLY teams that do it, but they are the ONLY teams who base their game plan on it, their remit must be, to get away with as much as possible to gain an advantage, where as other go out and just play to the laws as best they can. When I watch teams from other nations, I do not see them CONSTANTLY spoiling the game. Ireland for years, even when I was a child were "known" for thier spoiling.

Let me know when you land back on planet Earth.

There's lots of teams I don't like watching. I hated watching the Munster of a few years ago, with their endless pick-and-drives and lying over rucks. But I was brought up watching Pooler during the 70s, when our major tactic was the up-and-under followed by a vicious trampling of anyone - friend or foe - who ended up near the descending ball. It was hardly free-flowing and creative, but I loved it. And we regularly got beaten (well, OK, sometimes got beaten) when a team with a coaching genius, or more sheer talent, worked us out and ran us ragged, and those games were almost as enjoyable as our wins.

Ugly and boring is an integral part of the game.

Real "anti-rugby" is players and coaches adopting wendyball tropes of whining about decisions, diving, celebrating tries and generally making decisions about the game based solely on money.

rumpelstiltskindoh wrote:Real "anti-rugby" is players and coaches adopting wendyball tropes of whining about decisions, diving, celebrating tries and generally making decisions about the game based solely on money.

What Like Sexton on Friday night ?

LordDowlais wrote:

rumpelstiltskindoh wrote:Real "anti-rugby" is players and coaches adopting wendyball tropes of whining about decisions, diving, celebrating tries and generally making decisions about the game based solely on money.

What Like Sexton on Friday night ?

I wasn't thinking of anyone in particular, LD. It happens a lot these days, and I'm just a grumpy old man.

Just pointing out that the Irish are not as perfect as they would have us all believe.

We are all just as bad as each other.

Cool, so we all agree.

I was disappointed that Osprey didn't field a full strength side for the full game, resting their front line players on the bench for european games perhaps?

If only they paid enough respect to the pro12 then maybe there would be more people in the stands.

This is put forward against Irish provinces on a regular basis ..... shoe...other.....foot

The best second place welsh region better get their act together or they might not make it to the champions cup next year due to meritocracy rules.

Strong result for Leinster, they've a game in hand (but it is the cancelled away match in Glasgow) though it will be tricky to make up the points difference from that game later in the season.

thebandwagonsociety wrote:I was disappointed that Osprey didn't field a full strength side for the full game, resting their front line players on the bench for european games perhaps?

If only they paid enough respect to the pro12 then maybe there would be more people in the stands.

This is put forward against Irish provinces on a regular basis  ..... shoe...other.....foot

The best second place welsh region better get their act together or they might not make it to the champions cup next year due to meritocracy rules.

Strong result for Leinster, they've a game in hand (but it is the cancelled away match in Glasgow) though it will be tricky to make up the points difference from that game later in the season.

Look at the match thread, Steve Tandy was being lambasted for his team selection.

Anyway, so now we agree, not playing your best players in the league is damaging to it, yes ?

thebandwagonsociety wrote:I was disappointed that Osprey didn't field a full strength side for the full game, resting their front line players on the bench for european games perhaps?

If only they paid enough respect to the pro12 then maybe there would be more people in the stands.

This is put forward against Irish provinces on a regular basis  ..... shoe...other.....foot

The best second place welsh region better get their act together or they might not make it to the champions cup next year due to meritocracy rules.

Strong result for Leinster, they've a game in hand (but it is the cancelled away match in Glasgow) though it will be tricky to make up the points difference from that game later in the season.

Too right. Glad you agree it devalues the league.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

thebandwagonsociety wrote:I was disappointed that Osprey didn't field a full strength side for the full game, resting their front line players on the bench for european games perhaps?

If only they paid enough respect to the pro12 then maybe there would be more people in the stands.

This is put forward against Irish provinces on a regular basis  ..... shoe...other.....foot

The best second place welsh region better get their act together or they might not make it to the champions cup next year due to meritocracy rules.

Strong result for Leinster, they've a game in hand (but it is the cancelled away match in Glasgow) though it will be tricky to make up the points difference from that game later in the season.

Too right. Glad you agree it devalues the league.

So it devalues our league but not any of the others? The French rotate for almost every away game and if anything it helps the league...

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

thebandwagonsociety wrote:I was disappointed that Osprey didn't field a full strength side for the full game, resting their front line players on the bench for european games perhaps?

If only they paid enough respect to the pro12 then maybe there would be more people in the stands.

This is put forward against Irish provinces on a regular basis  ..... shoe...other.....foot

The best second place welsh region better get their act together or they might not make it to the champions cup next year due to meritocracy rules.

Strong result for Leinster, they've a game in hand (but it is the cancelled away match in Glasgow) though it will be tricky to make up the points difference from that game later in the season.

Too right. Glad you agree it devalues the league.

So it devalues our league but not any of the others? The French rotate for almost every away game and if anything it helps the league...

It also helps that they have so much money, it does not drop off in quality when the changes are made.

Also, we are not the French, we are the Pro12, we do not have billionaires propping up our clubs.

LordDowlais wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

thebandwagonsociety wrote:I was disappointed that Osprey didn't field a full strength side for the full game, resting their front line players on the bench for european games perhaps?

If only they paid enough respect to the pro12 then maybe there would be more people in the stands.

This is put forward against Irish provinces on a regular basis  ..... shoe...other.....foot

The best second place welsh region better get their act together or they might not make it to the champions cup next year due to meritocracy rules.

Strong result for Leinster, they've a game in hand (but it is the cancelled away match in Glasgow) though it will be tricky to make up the points difference from that game later in the season.

Too right. Glad you agree it devalues the league.

So it devalues our league but not any of the others? The French rotate for almost every away game and if anything it helps the league...

It also helps that they have so much money, it does not drop off in quality when the changes are made.

Also, we are not the French, we are the Pro12, we do not have billionaires propping up our clubs.

It doesn't drop off in quality? Is that why Brive were able to beat Toulon at home and La Rochelle were able to hammer Clermont at home last season etc etc..Before this season Brive went almost 3 years without a win away.

I really don't get what money or billionaires has to do with this argument? We can't rotate because we aren't rich?

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

I really don't get what money or billionaires has to do with this argument? We can't rotate because we aren't rich?

Really? You don't get the difference between Leinster fielding Darragh Fanning during the 6Nations and Toulon fielding James O'Connor?

Chunky Norwich wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

I really don't get what money or billionaires has to do with this argument? We can't rotate because we aren't rich?

Really? You don't get the difference between Leinster fielding Darragh Fanning during the 6Nations and Toulon fielding James O'Connor?

Fanning has a better haircut?

LordDowlais wrote:

thebandwagonsociety wrote:I was disappointed that Osprey didn't field a full strength side for the full game, resting their front line players on the bench for european games perhaps?

If only they paid enough respect to the pro12 then maybe there would be more people in the stands.

This is put forward against Irish provinces on a regular basis  ..... shoe...other.....foot

The best second place welsh region better get their act together or they might not make it to the champions cup next year due to meritocracy rules.

Strong result for Leinster, they've a game in hand (but it is the cancelled away match in Glasgow) though it will be tricky to make up the points difference from that game later in the season.

Look at the match thread, Steve Tandy was being lambasted for his team selection.

Anyway, so now we agree, not playing your best players in the league is damaging to it, yes ?

I think this is a totally ridiculous statement as far as both AWJ and Tipuric is concerned Alun Wyn played in the Warm up game against Ireland that we won, he then missed the Uruguay game in the WC, he then played in all the other games in the WC, which when finished he came back and was a replacement against Glasgow he has since been in the matchday squad for EVERY single game that we have played, 11 games played 8 starting and 3 replacements one of which was last Friday, if anybody thinks he should be starting EVERY game, they are living in cloud cuckoo land, as for Tips he has been in the matchday squad for the last 12 matches the first against Connacht as a replacement and starting every other game until last Friday, these are human beings NOT ROBOTS.
It could be argued that they should have been rested the previous weekend against the Dragons and played last weekend, and that was the prevailing opinion on our Forum, but to say they should have played in both on top of what they've already played this season is ludicrous, because like it or not the order in which the top teams class the importance of their games is LV, GUINNESS, EUROPE, INTERNATIONAL as far as Wales is concerned.

I agree with your order of importance wayne.
And managing player time is critical in the professional game. A players body can only take so much punishment and needs time to recover.

Just noting for the thread that Leinster did pick a strong team to head to this away fixture and it was arguably the home side that fielded the weaker strength starting XV.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

I really don't get what money or billionaires has to do with this argument? We can't rotate because we aren't rich?

Really? You don't get the difference between Leinster fielding Darragh Fanning during the 6Nations and Toulon fielding James O'Connor?

I still have no idea what point you are making? Who do you want fielded during the 6 nations, our full team? Also Toulon are far from the norm... What about the teams Agen, Pau, Grenoble etc field away from home...

I did put a post on this topic and it seems to of vanished.

Oh well... try again, I thought Leinster deserved the win. They absorbed pressure well and had the experience and skill to take their chances when they had them. I think the Ospreys paid dearly for the under strength players they put out, but our best players can't play every week, and even with them there is no guarantee we'd beat Leinster anyway.
Best team won, and I though the referee was fair and impartial, and had one of his best games, he's normally lethal but today he did well.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

I really don't get what money or billionaires has to do with this argument? We can't rotate because we aren't rich?

Really? You don't get the difference between Leinster fielding Darragh Fanning during the 6Nations and Toulon fielding James O'Connor?

I still have no idea what point you are making? Who do you want fielded during the 6 nations, our full team? Also Toulon are far from the norm... What about the teams Agen, Pau, Grenoble etc field away from home...

The point being made is that rotating players in the Top14 matters far less than the Pro12, because it is a better league, with richer teams, and squads of far greater quality.

That's what a competent league that commands huge tv revenue does. Success breeds success.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

I really don't get what money or billionaires has to do with this argument? We can't rotate because we aren't rich?

Really? You don't get the difference between Leinster fielding Darragh Fanning during the 6Nations and Toulon fielding James O'Connor?

I still have no idea what point you are making? Who do you want fielded during the 6 nations, our full team? Also Toulon are far from the norm... What about the teams Agen, Pau, Grenoble etc field away from home...

The point being made is that rotating players in the Top14 matters far less than the Pro12, because it is a better league, with richer teams, and squads of far greater quality.

That's what a competent league that commands huge tv revenue does. Success breeds success.

No it matters less because the fans will show up no matter who is playing. For instance, when La Rochelle played Munster in a pre season game they pulled in 10,000 to the game and this is when the were in the Pro D2; whereas the Welsh will look for any excuse not to support a region.

LeinsterFan4life wrote: whereas the Welsh will look for any excuse not to support a region.

Oh so we are onto this now are we. Still finding it hard to get down off your high horse ?

The thing is, we cannot be @rsed to go and watch an Irish side because they play so much negative rugby. Sort that out then you can have a poke at us.

LordDowlais wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote: whereas the Welsh will look for any excuse not to support a region.

Oh so we are onto this now are we. Still finding it hard to get down off your high horse ?

The thing is, we cannot be @rsed to go and watch an Irish side because they play so much negative rugby. Sort that out then you can have a poke at us.

I bring it up because Cardiff and the Spreys should have double the fan base they have now and if they did the league would be much more attractive to sponsors and tv. Even the Scarlets should be easily getting 10k a game, great club. I just don't get why the rugby mad welsh won't get behind the regions but will happily support two football clubs who barely have a welsh player between them.

LeinsterFan4life wrote: I just don't get why the rugby mad welsh won't get behind the regions but will happily support two football clubs who barely have a welsh player between them.

Yes I agree. You just don't get it.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote: I just don't get why the rugby mad welsh won't get behind the regions but will happily support two football clubs who barely have a welsh player between them.

Yes I agree. You just don't get it.

Of course this is the point you respond too...

LeinsterFan4life wrote:I just don't get why the rugby mad welsh won't get behind the regions but will happily support two football clubs who barely have a welsh player between them.

Because the product is shoite.

LordDowlais wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:I just don't get why the rugby mad welsh won't get behind the regions but will happily support two football clubs who barely have a welsh player between them.

Because the product is shoite.

Like I said... Any excuse.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:I just don't get why the rugby mad welsh won't get behind the regions but will happily support two football clubs who barely have a welsh player between them.

Because the product is shoite.

Like I said... Any excuse.

Don't worry, it's nothing to do with Ireland, it never is.

LordDowlais wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:I just don't get why the rugby mad welsh won't get behind the regions but will happily support two football clubs who barely have a welsh player between them.

Because the product is shoite.

Like I said... Any excuse.

Don't worry, it's nothing to do with Ireland, it never is.

Well obviously Ireland has nothing to do with regional attendances.

Generalisations again? Tidy.

The Welsh as you put it all support regions on here (on the whole), so 'The Welsh' is not a good choice of words as you are preaching to the converted on here mostly.

Much like when people say cheat chants only happen in one country (or similar). Why not just say something simple like I disagree with the cheat chants I heard in such and such game, without the added nonsense? Then the sensitive souls like me could just say, yes I dislike them too.


You're welcome.

Risca Rev wrote:Generalisations again? Tidy.

The Welsh as you put it all support regions on here (on the whole), so 'The Welsh' is not a good choice of words as you are preaching to the converted on here mostly.

Much like when people say cheat chants only happen in one country (or similar). Why not just say something simple like I disagree with the cheat chants I heard in such and such game, without the added nonsense? Then the sensitive souls like me could just say, yes I dislike them too.


You're welcome.

That's the way things are on here. If a couple of Irish posters on here say something they represent the views of the "irish" and the irish need to get off their high horse.

Lord dowlais, you say the product is Poopie and then in other threads get annoyed when regions buy nwq players to improve the team and suggest they should fill the squad with average welsh players from the premiership. How does that improve the product. Leinsterfan4life is right in that there are welsh rugby fans who don't support a region because they don't feel affiliated with one eg pontypridd and north wales. I appreciate its not ever fan but theres loads of them that would rather watch their local side than a region