Joe Calzaghe

On this day in 2009 Joe Calzaghe announced his retirement with a record of 46 (32)-0-0, as a two weight unbeaten World Champion.

What was your take on Joe Calzaghe?

An amazing fighter. Best fighter to come form Britain in modern times, well along with Lewis.

Only problem is, he should of had bigger fights earlier. Joe was fantastic. Not top elite like a Mayweather, Leonard, Whittaker etc in the ATG stakes. But not too far away form it. The best compliment I can give Joe is, I really don't think any boxer past or present, would have an easy nights work with him.

The longer he is retired, the more I appreciate how good he was. Class fighter!

Best Super Middle ever?

shenglong2015 wrote:Best Super Middle ever?

I don't know. I have him or Ward as 1 and 2. I used to think Ward would win a fight with a prime Joe. I'm not sure he would. It would be very close either way.

Wow a Calzaghe thread, how fresh and original

I'm being nice in it for a change. Well now that you have arrived, it could change!!

DAVE667 wrote:Wow a Calzaghe thread, how fresh and original

To mark the anniversary of his retirement.

How about you tell us again about how David Haye had a sore shoulder.

AdamT wrote:I'm being nice in it for a change. Well now that you have arrived, it could change!!

Doubtful, just pointed out to Sheng that you've been lovely today so there's no need to get various knickers in various knots.

He however.......

shenglong2015 wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:Wow a Calzaghe thread, how fresh and original

To mark the anniversary of his retirement.

How about you tell us again about how David Haye had a sore shoulder.

"Joe Calzaghe retired on this day a million years ago, just thought I'd mention it" would have sufficed. Nothing knew is to be learned about him, no-one involved in the countless slanging matches has ever changed their opinion on him, I doubt it will start now. End of.

David Haye hurt his shoulder and now it's better. There!

shenglong2015 wrote:On this day in 2009 Joe Calzaghe announced his retirement with a record of 46 (32)-0-0, as a two weight unbeaten World Champion.

What was your take on Joe Calzaghe?

Fantastic achievement and record. I do wonder though what his record would have been if there would have only been only one belt available at 168lbs.

Outside of Britain, is he rated any differently than Sven Ottke?

Atila wrote:

shenglong2015 wrote:On this day in 2009 Joe Calzaghe announced his retirement with a record of 46 (32)-0-0, as a two weight unbeaten World Champion.

What was your take on Joe Calzaghe?

Fantastic achievement and record. I do wonder though what his record would have been if there would have only been only one belt available at 168lbs.  

Outside of Britain, is he rated any differently than Sven Ottke?

Well I live outside Britain, and he is well liked here too, and well respected as the best fighter from your shores.

shenglong2015 wrote:

Atila wrote:

shenglong2015 wrote:On this day in 2009 Joe Calzaghe announced his retirement with a record of 46 (32)-0-0, as a two weight unbeaten World Champion.

What was your take on Joe Calzaghe?

Fantastic achievement and record. I do wonder though what his record would have been if there would have only been only one belt available at 168lbs.  

Outside of Britain, is he rated any differently than Sven Ottke?

Well I live outside Britain, and he is well liked here too, and well respected as the best fighter from your shores.

Outside of Britain, where Ireland? If you're in Ireland you're still getting some British 'propaganda' through the media.

Calzaghe was and is highly rated in America too, he's not at all comparable to Ottke who is rated by no one.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Calzaghe was and is highly rated in America too, he's not at all comparable to Ottke who is rated by no one.

I bet Ottke is rated by some Germans and probably by others in Europe. If he was a Brit he'd be rated in Britain too. How highly is debatable.

Atila wrote:

shenglong2015 wrote:

Atila wrote:

shenglong2015 wrote:On this day in 2009 Joe Calzaghe announced his retirement with a record of 46 (32)-0-0, as a two weight unbeaten World Champion.

What was your take on Joe Calzaghe?

Fantastic achievement and record. I do wonder though what his record would have been if there would have only been only one belt available at 168lbs.  

Outside of Britain, is he rated any differently than Sven Ottke?

Well I live outside Britain, and he is well liked here too, and well respected as the best fighter from your shores.

Outside of Britain, where Ireland? If you're in Ireland you're still getting some British 'propaganda' through the media.

Yes Ireland, outside Britain.

Yes, a serious lack of quality on Joe's record... however, there were a handful of genuinely good wins. Ottke comparison is a bit harsh.

Bit of a shame as there were fights out there I'm sure he would have won... Jermain Taylor, Lucien Bute, even Froch.. and then nobody would be debating his legacy.

smashingstormcrow wrote:Yes, a serious lack of quality on Joe's record... however, there were a handful of genuinely good wins. Ottke comparison is a bit harsh.

Bit of a shame as there were fights out there I'm sure he would have won... Jermain Taylor, Lucien Bute, even Froch.. and then nobody would be debating his legacy.

Wasn't trying to be harsh, just asked a genuine question. I don't know how highly rated Calzaghe is rated by others in different countries. He might be rated lower than Ottke by some for all I know.

We get too excited sometimes in Britain, rating our athletes as 'the worlds best etc..' and assuming that everyone else in the world agrees with us, and that's not always the case.

I rate Calzaghe very highly, more so now he's not around. He would have been a handful for any super middle in all eras, not just his own.

I personally think that if he'd fought Froch when Carl started calling him out, it would have been one-sided and bloody. Ward would have been more competitive, but I think Joe would've had a game plan and figured Andre out for a close decision.

A naturally talented boxer who had to adjust his style after his heavy hands let him down, he's certainly one of Britain's best. As with any boxer, it's easy to pick apart his record, but Jones was already at LHW when Joe became champion and Ottke wanted to stay home in Germany. He beat everybody he faced, sometimes having to do it one-handed. He was a SMW champ for 10 years, and made his most ferocious opponent look like a novice. There might not be another Brit like him for a while.

decent

Simply the best UK fighter I've seen in my 26 years here...

Unfortunately suffered from Warren syndrome...

Pity a very good career could have been a great one..

Talented southpaws that can bang are a nightmare..

Similar to what I think Truss. I can't think of a fighter that could walk over him.

Awkward southpaw with fast hands and a great engine. Tough nights work for anyone.

Just wish he didn't hide behind the wbo for so long. But that Is typical Warren.

Shame that the peak of Joe's career didn't coincide with those of the likes of Benn, Watson, Eubank, Toney & RJJ, or come a bit later and be part of the super six. Fantastic record in terms of longevity, but lack of big names at the right time makes it hard to judge how good he really was ( And I believe he was very,very good) - the yardstick for Joe's ability seems to be Kesser, who whilst being an excellent fighter, falls short of being elite.
With regards to comparisons with his british peers over the last 25 years or so, overall he's up there with Lewis & Naz for me.

Atila wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Calzaghe was and is highly rated in America too, he's not at all comparable to Ottke who is rated by no one.

I bet Ottke is rated by some Germans and probably by others in Europe. If he was a Brit he'd be rated in Britain too. How highly is debatable.

We Brits don't tend to rate our own frivolously so doubt Ottke would be entering our consciousness at all, he'd be below the likes of Burns and Mckenzie as far as i'm concerned.

Calzaghe was a quality boxer, fast hands, and a great chin, hard to outbox, but definitely should have cut his ties with Warren long before he did.

Like Truss said a good career could have been great, should have gone to the US years before he did, preferred to be a homer, but one of the best from these shores.

horizontalhero wrote:Shame that the peak of Joe's career didn't coincide with those of the likes of Benn, Watson, Eubank, Toney & RJJ, or come a bit later and be part of the super six. Fantastic record in terms of longevity, but lack of big names at the right time makes it hard to judge how good he really was ( And I believe he was very,very good) - the yardstick for Joe's ability seems to be Kesser, who whilst being an excellent fighter, falls short of being elite.
With regards to comparisons with his british peers over the last 25 years or so, overall he's up there with Lewis & Naz for me.  

I don't know about Naz, but Joe's definitely behind Lewis for me.

Atila wrote:

horizontalhero wrote:Shame that the peak of Joe's career didn't coincide with those of the likes of Benn, Watson, Eubank, Toney & RJJ, or come a bit later and be part of the super six. Fantastic record in terms of longevity, but lack of big names at the right time makes it hard to judge how good he really was ( And I believe he was very,very good) - the yardstick for Joe's ability seems to be Kesser, who whilst being an excellent fighter, falls short of being elite.
With regards to comparisons with his british peers over the last 25 years or so, overall he's up there with Lewis & Naz for me.  

I don't know about Naz, but Joe's definitely behind Lewis for me.

Wouldn't argue too much about Lewis...The fact Calzaghe had longevity a couple of decent names and stayed unbeaten just does it for me..

But....Wouldn't argue too much..

I probably give Lewis the slight edge. Fought better opponents, for longer. However Joe was unbeaten and had some fantastic wins among the useless ones. Both men beat everyone they faced. (Obviously Lewis lost two)

I still think Lewis is number one, but only just. I definitely rate Joe high. A lot more than she he was active. I guess I could say the same for Lewis. I also think Naz was a wonderful fighter.

Ahead of Naz but behind Lewis.

Barrera was to Naz what Hopkins was to Calzaghe. Naz was demoralised, Calzaghe came through his toughest test. Lewis has got better opposition than Joe.

Lewis is leagues above Calzaghe who would find himself mid table in a top ten alongside the likes of Naz, Welsh, Berg and Conteh.

Why ??..You've just made a bald statement....

Lacey, Mitchell, Hopkins...(Eubank is as good as faded Tyson)..hold up to any of Lewis wins and he wasn't stretched out twice....chucking in a controversial draw with Holy and decision against Mercer....

There is a good case for Lewis I grant you but dismissing Calzaghe the way you have is a little poor..

A bit ironic to chuck in a controversial draw with Holy. It's controversial because he was a clear winner. So in other words chuck in two victories over Holy

I know I watched the fight...But draws do count..and Calzaghe never got one..

Like I said I wouldn't complain about Lewis too much..

Lewis fought better opposition more consistently, but Joe has some great victories too.

I like both, but like I say, Lewis has the edge. I know many people who have Joe as the greater boxer. He is unbeaten and had a fantastic end to his career, with great longevity.

Hard to beat a lightning fast southpaw, who could throw 80-100 punches a round. If his hands never gave him problems, he would of carried power into his later fights. He would of definitely stopped Lacy and kessler imo.

Lewis was considered the undisputed champ for most of his reign while Calzaghe wasn't. That alone carries extra pressure and prestige, and for me put Lewis ahead. Calzaghe held just one quarter of the title for most of his reign until the near end when he fought Lacy and Kessler. Add to that, that the WBO title wasn't rated very highly and didn't have the best challengers. Calzaghe though a talented fighter, was able to feast on some fighters who were not that remarkable.

We criticize Kell Brook for just sitting back and defending his IBF title but isn't he just doing what Calzaghe did albeit with a more highly rated belt?

Is there any logical argument against Lewis being Britain's greatest fighter - other than Jimmy Wilde.

Calzaghe is a tad overrated. Great late flourish to his career but the majority of that WBO reign was pretty turgid.

hazharrison wrote:Is there any logical argument against Lewis being Britain's greatest fighter - other than Jimmy Wilde.

Calzaghe is a tad overrated. Great late flourish to his career but the majority of that WBO reign was pretty turgid.

Is there any logical reason why anyone would rave about Rigo v Jazz Dickens and moan about Khan v Canelo...

Or deliberately edit articles about boxers to make them look bad..

Funny thing logic...

As for Lewis some people hold up his defeats as a leveller with Joe..

I like this debate. Joe is fantastic, but I still can't find him being ahead of Lewis. Lewis was undisputed number 1 for years. Joe might of been as well, though unfortunately he left it late to accomplish.

Better late than never, I guess.

Undisputed needs to be taken in context....

Plenty of crap undisputed champs and he wasn't undisputed anyway..

I don't mind Lewis being higher but he did get stretched twice and his best wins were no better than undefeated Lacy and Hoppo...Longevity he wasn't at the top as long as Joe either..

Joe isn't far behind Lewis..

I agree he isn't far behind. No doubt at all. I think Calzaghe was fantastic. Just think Lewis was a bit better. It is hard to compare to fighters, from completely different weight classes.

I loved Lennox....Heavy Boxing died when he quit...

Think Bowe would have put him in my alltime Top 10...

His most high profile wins though were against sliding fighters...Like many of Joe's..

In my Top 15 though..

hazharrison wrote:Is there any logical argument against Lewis being Britain's greatest fighter - other than Jimmy Wilde.

Calzaghe is a tad overrated. Great late flourish to his career but the majority of that WBO reign was pretty turgid.

The Lewis', Wilde and Buchanan are the clear top four with Driscoll, Berg, Hamed, Conteh, Welsh, Calzaghe, Froch, Moran, Lynch and Winstone rounding off a top 14.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Undisputed needs to be taken in context....

Plenty of crap undisputed champs and he wasn't undisputed anyway..

I don't mind Lewis being higher but he did get stretched twice and his best wins were no better than undefeated Lacy and Hoppo...Longevity he wasn't at the top as long as Joe either..

Joe isn't far behind Lewis..

Lewis wasn't undisputed? The only belt he didn't have after beating Holy was the WBO belt. How highly was this belt rated at the time? Not as highly as it's rated now.

Might as well disregard Hopkins claims to being undisputed middleweight champ then, seeing as how he never held the WBU belt as the WBU belt might become relevant someday.

Glad that you've come around to the fact that Joe is behind Lewis.

I know Atila....Lewis was the man at heavy.....like Joe was at 168..

I'm a Lewis fan without the defeats he'd be a good distance ahead..

But he did get squashed...his longevity wasn't better and his best wins weren't any better...

I'm happy for people to disagree....

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

hazharrison wrote:Is there any logical argument against Lewis being Britain's greatest fighter - other than Jimmy Wilde.

Calzaghe is a tad overrated. Great late flourish to his career but the majority of that WBO reign was pretty turgid.

Is there any logical reason why anyone would rave about Rigo v Jazz Dickens and moan about Khan v Canelo...

Or deliberately edit articles about boxers to make them look bad..

Funny thing logic...

As for Lewis some people hold up his defeats as a leveller with Joe..

Define rave? I commented that I wanted to attend - mainly to watch Rigo. It's as poor a match as Canelo-Khan, though.

Hilarious that "edited articles" rubbish. I posted the link to the whole article beneath the exerpt butt munch.

Lewis rates well ahead of Calzaghe. No contest.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Undisputed needs to be taken in context....

Plenty of crap undisputed champs and he wasn't undisputed anyway..

I don't mind Lewis being higher but he did get stretched twice and his best wins were no better than undefeated Lacy and Hoppo...Longevity he wasn't at the top as long as Joe either..

Joe isn't far behind Lewis..

Amazing insight as ever.

Lewis, of course, was undisputed champ.

Calzaghe's best wins were Kessler and Hopkins (the latter a very scruffy, debatable decision).

Lewis was a better fighter, reigned as champion longer and did it almost exclusively on the road. He was the greater fighter.

You're so petty...I can't be bothered with baby Haz..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You're so petty...I can't be bothered with baby Haz..

That's it - take that 'L' like a man.

shenglong2015 wrote:Best Super Middle ever?

Good question and I think he is with Ward second...

Think Froch is the best win out of both careers..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I loved Lennox....Heavy Boxing died when he quit...

Think Bowe would have put him in my alltime Top 10...

His most high profile wins though were against sliding fighters...Like many of Joe's..

In my Top 15 though..

Lennox was avoided, though. Calzaghe did most of the avoiding. How many times did he stand up Glen Johnson?!

Never said he wasn't avoided....

The fact remains undefeated Bowe raises Lewis to the next level..

Say it again I have no beef with posters who have Lewis higher...

I just think there is a case for Calzaghe..

Depending on how much you invest into someone being laid out twice..

Some invest more than others..