Heineken Cup seedings

I'd love to get a pool where I can travel to see the games now I have a job. Maybe Munster, Quins, Edinburgh, Montpellier - I'd fancy we could get out of the pool and there are 3 nice weekends away. There's also the matter of bringing Quins back to Thomond for a revenge trip.

Yes - Saracens will create a brutal group - as will Ulster.

It's Cardiff, Saints, Edinburgh, Connacht for me - I burn easily in the sun!

MeanAsCustard wrote:Yes - Saracens will create a brutal group - as will Ulster.

It's Cardiff, Saints, Edinburgh, Connacht for me - I burn easily in the sun!

Each pool is guaranteed one French team and one English. One pool will have two English teams.

As long as i get a nice trip somewhere in france, i don't mind. Montpellier? 8)

Why are Saracens third seeds? They're Champions god damn it!

Hopefully won't get a similar group to last year! Clermont, Racing Metro and Leinster! No thanks!

Matty the Sarrie wrote:Why are Saracens third seeds? They're Champions god damn it!

Because it is based on European results not domestic ones.

Leinster, Northampton, Gloucester, Racing Metro.

That's a horrible group!

Just as a point you might like to note, the 7th English team is based on European rankings so it's Glaws, not Quins. That means Glaws will get another English team in their group.

For Scarlets to be guaranteed an Italian team they would need Tigers and Clermont.

If it's possible I will have Leicester, Clermont and Aironi.

If not then, Toulouse, London Irish and Aironi.

I have just had a request from a tweeter who read the article to post the following:

How can Bath be ahead of Ulster and Saracens in the seedings?

Hobo, it’s quite simple. They made it out of their group 2 out of the last 4 years which gives them 5 ranking points for each year. Ulster made it out this year but haven’t done so for the past 10 years. Sarries made the semi finals a few years back but were last in their group this time round.

It’s all based on how they do in Europe, nothing to do with domestic or head to head records.

I'm hoping for Tolouse, Gloucester and Aironi in the Ospreys pool, I'd love to see those teams at the Liberty next year

Looking at it you'd want to avoid a tier 4 french team because they're still of a very good standard.

Tier 3 you'd obviously want to avoid Sarries, Ulster and Gloucester

Tier 2 you'd probably want Irish, Bath or Quins.

Tier 1 you'd want Blues or Biarritz.

As a London Irish fan i'd want Biarritz in my pool because they are the weakest of the tier one seeds in my opinion and it means that you get either an italian team or connacht in your group which will help with highest runner up spots.

As a London Irish fan my ideal group would be

Biarritz, Irish, Glasgow, Connacht

My group of death would be

Leinster, Irish, Edinburgh, Racing Metro.

I know the World Cup won't effect Heineken Fixtures (Well i don't think it does anyway), but how do people think it will effect teams preparations and ability to compete, i honestly can't remember back to 4 years ago.

The toughest pool for me that London Irish can get is...

Leinster, London Irish, Scarlets, Montpellier


I would see us struggling to get out of this one, and given that we must make the semi finals or better this year to have any chance of maintaining a place in tier 2, I suspect this pool would see us in tier 3, or even maybe 4 for the 2012/13.

Wierd seedings; Cardiff Blues in the top pool, they were third Welsh club this season!

Some tasty French clubs as bottom seeds, next seasons tournament will be a lottery! You could get:

Blues, Bath (or Irish), Glasgow and Arioni or

Leinster, Saints, Ulster and Racing

Seagultaf wrote:Wierd seedings; Cardiff Blues in the top pool, they were third Welsh club this season!

No its not weird. It is European form not domestic form that is important. Blues won the Amlin Cup last year. They made the Heineken Cup semi final and quarter finals in years before. It is old form they are living off. The weakest of the top seeds.

It is a little bit harsh having Racing in the bottom tier as they will be a team to create a so called "pool of death", which always seem unfair on some teams.

I haven't seen this posted anywhere, so just adding it for info. Leinster are the top seeds and the four tiers are

TIER ONE: Leinster, Toulouse, Munster, Cardiff Blues, Biarritz Olympique, Leicester Tigers

TIER TWO : Northampton Saints, ASM Clermont Auvergne, Ospreys, Bath Rugby, Harlequins, London Irish

TIER THREE : Ulster Rugby, Saracens, Gloucester Rugby, Glasgow Warriors, Scarlets, Edinburgh

TIER FOUR : Connacht Rugby, Benetton Treviso, Castres Olympique, Montpellier, Racing Metro 92, Aironi Rugby

The draw will take place on June 7th

For those who have not followed this before once the Tier 1 clubs have each been allocated a different Pool no club from the same Tier will be drawn in the same Pool and no Pool will have more than one club from the same country with the exception of England, as there are seven English teams.

Personally I am hoping the Cardiff Blues draw Racing Metro. Because the Irish teams have to face both an English team and a French team, I would rather it be the Blues rather than the Irish who have to meet them.

I am hoping to draw for the Irish teams to be something like:

Munster Rugby
Harlequins
Edinburgh
Montpellier Herault

Leinster Rugby
Bath Rugby
Gloucester Rugby
Castres Olympique

Biarritz Olympique
London Irish
Ulster Rugby
Bennetton Treviso

Toulouse Rugby
Northampton Saints
Glasgow Warriors
Connacht Rugby*

*Although this seems a daunting task I think it would be good. Connacht need to draw a 3rd placed team that they could possibly do the double over. Draw in the biggest names in the competition would be great financially and for advertising Connacht. I don't see them progressing no matter who they draw - lets hope they make the most of Heineken Cup while they have it.

red_stag wrote:
Munster Rugby
Harlequins
Edinburgh
Montpellier Herault

I would Fancy Edinburgh to do ok in a pool like that one too, here's hoping my team can have a stronger start to the season, build some momentum and carry it into the Heineken Cup and with a bit of luck get into the knock out stages.

Yes they could Radge but they'd be the 3rd team I'd back to progress there. To be honest as a Munster fan its the away trips I'm thinking of here rather than the playing quality. Edinburgh, London and Montpellier are 3 nice weekends away I'd also back a very motivated Munster to knock the stuffing out of Harlequins. Edinburgh would want to really improve on this season to qualify from that though. I'd rather face them than Glasgow.

For Ulster i would like:

Cardiff Blues
London Irish
Ulster
Aironi

Would be a winnable group really. Replace London Irish with Bath or Aironi with Treviso and it would be similar.

Nightmare draw would be Tigers, Saint and Racing or Montpellier

Artful_Dodger wrote:For Ulster i would like:

Cardiff Blues
London Irish
Ulster
Aironi

Not possible. You need a French team.

red_stag wrote:

Leinster Rugby
Bath Rugby
Gloucester Rugby
Castres Olympique

Nice trip to Dublin for me there if that happens!!

I've been looking at the draws I want and sadly something will have to give there. It won't work out based on the teams that are left

I have given up trying to work out potential good/bad draws. What will happen will happen, i just hope that Munster do well.

eirebilly wrote:I have given up trying to work out potential good/bad draws. What will happen will happen, i just hope that Munster do well.

Speculation, permutations and combinations are what makes the Heineken Cup exciting for rugby anoraks. I love the final stage of the pool where people are trying to work out the seedings with estimate calculations

So looking forward to this draw tomorrow.

Blues
Bath
Glasgow
Castres

That would be the best pool we could get without getting an italian team or Connacht. I feel we could have taken Castres away last season but we just never really got going and beat them at home in a real scrappy game.

If the blues got a pool similar to that, I think we should be expecting to go through as pool winners but not necessarily with enough points for a home QF

Live stream for the Heineken Cup draw:

http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/

what time does it start

gcBlues wrote:what time does it start

Midday

Nervous already. And with up and coming teams with little European success like Racing in the 4th tier the seedings this year are a lottery.

We've had a hell of a year in terms of HC opponents, I hope the rugby gods are smiling on us this time round and give us a break!

All four provinces in the HC... how cool is that?!

red_stag wrote:

gcBlues wrote:what time does it start

Midday

That's ages away

It also clashes with Bargain Hunt - how inconsiderate!

For leinster something like

Leinster
Harlequins
Gloucester
Treviso

would be good (you can have 2 english teams in 1 group?)

Also have Harlequins and Gloucester friends which would add extra spice to proceedings

dubh_linn wrote:would be good (you can have 2 english teams in 1 group?)

One pool will have two English clubs.

But you must have one French and one English.

The pool with 2 English teams must contain Gloucester as they are the 7th ranked English team in the ERC rankings.

So if we (Leinster) have Glaws in our group, we must get either Bath, L. Irish or Saints from tier 2 and a French team from tier 4 (Castres, Montpellier, Racing).

CHANGE of direction.

What would be your group of death?

Oh and if Leinster or Munster want an Italian team they’ll have to get Clermont from Tier 2 as there are no French teams in Tier 3.

So lets hope we don’t get one!

Munster group of death - Munster, Ospreys, Saracens, Racing Metro.

Group of death – Leinster, Saints, Gloucester, Racing Metro.

Blues group of Death

Blues
Northampton
Ulster
Montpellier

No chance of an away win there i think

greybeard wrote:

dubh_linn wrote:would be good (you can have 2 english teams in 1 group?)

One pool will have two English clubs.

But you must have one French and one English.

ok racing metro instead of Treviso then....

For London Irish the worst case scenario is Leinster, Scarlets and Racing Metro. Scarlets are a real bogey team for us and I hope we avoid them at all costs.

Really we want Biarritz or Blues from tier 1, Glasgow from tier 3, and then an Italian team from tier 4 if we have Biarritz, or if we've got the Blues then Castres from tier 4.

At least from a Glasgow point of view we can't draw the Dragons again this season! As usual I can't see us making it out of the group this year, but with our internationals available we far are tougher opposition than our ML final position last year indicates.

Ideal Group for us:

Biarritz Olympique
London Irish/Harlequins
Glasgow Warriors
Connacht Rugby/Aironi Rugby

Would be in with a chance if we played well of sneaking 3 or 4 wins. Biarritz is one of the best trips on the HC circuit and a trip to Ireland or Italy to a game we realistically have a chance of winning.

Nightmare Group:

Leinster/Munster
Northampton Saints
Glasgow Warriors
Racing Metro 92/Montpellier

On a positive we would get a bit more Sky TV coverage.......

Here is hoping for some decent pools to be thrown together, everyone loves a “Pool of Death” providing their side is not in it.

Mickado wrote:Group of death – Leinster, Saints, Gloucester, Racing Metro.

hmmm
I'd back us (Leinster) to win 3 at home
win at gloucester
bonus point defeat at Northamptom (think they might have a point to prove!)
and against racing metro a tight match but a narrow win in the end for Leinster

dubh_linn wrote:

Mickado wrote:Group of death – Leinster, Saints, Gloucester, Racing Metro.

hmmm
I'd back us (Leinster) to win 3 at home
win at gloucester
bonus point defeat at Northamptom (think they might have a point to prove!)
and against racing metro a tight match but a narrow win in the end for Leinster

I wouldn't be so confident coming to Kingsholm

prop_lyd wrote:

dubh_linn wrote:

Mickado wrote:Group of death – Leinster, Saints, Gloucester, Racing Metro.

hmmm
I'd back us (Leinster) to win 3 at home
win at gloucester
bonus point defeat at Northamptom (think they might have a point to prove!)
and against racing metro a tight match but a narrow win in the end for Leinster

I wouldn't be so confident coming to Kingsholm

My long suffering mate wouldn't rate Gloucesters chances too highly (he's eternally pessimistic about Gloucester rugby)

Like in any 'group of death' there are no gimmes and all it takes is one substandard performance to put qualification in doubt...and then you are most likely chasing one of the runners up spots with an away quarter final...the wait for the draw seems to be taking forever

dubh_linn wrote:

prop_lyd wrote:

dubh_linn wrote:

Mickado wrote:Group of death – Leinster, Saints, Gloucester, Racing Metro.

hmmm
I'd back us (Leinster) to win 3 at home
win at gloucester
bonus point defeat at Northamptom (think they might have a point to prove!)
and against racing metro a tight match but a narrow win in the end for Leinster

I wouldn't be so confident coming to Kingsholm

My long suffering mate wouldn't rate Gloucesters chances too highly (he's eternally pessimistic about Gloucester rugby)

Like in any 'group of death' there are no gimmes and all it takes is one substandard performance to put qualification in doubt...and then you are most likely chasing one of the runners up spots with an away quarter final...the wait for the draw seems to be taking forever

In that group I reckon where we'd come unstuck is away matches. We were unbeaten last season at home so building a nice little fortress. Not sure what Redpath will be targettting this season, I'd reckon: prem final, lv winners and heiniken quarters...that would keep me happy and exstatic if we did better than that!

What time is the draw?