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Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

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Post by LordDowlais Wed 17 Feb 2016, 12:41 pm

Christ on a bike, there's some money to be earned in France, and Japan by the looks of things. How are Wasps going to stay under the salary cap if they are going to pay Pocock £1.4 million+ a season ? 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/11300999/Rugbys-rich-list-the-highest-paid-players-in-the-world.html?frame=3576484


the IRFU are paying Sexton and Puitua 500k each a year, that's massive money. I reckon the salary caps in Europe will disappear in time, where is all this money coming from. Shocked

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 17 Feb 2016, 12:44 pm

He would be a marquee signing so wouldn't affect the cap.

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Post by exile jack Wed 17 Feb 2016, 1:02 pm

Lord,accounting creativity,rich sponsors,15-20k gates and blind faith.Huge gaps appearing in financial prudence between the top and bottom halves of the Top14 and Aviva.Reminds me of the Big Crash.Not if but when.Perhaps they'll start issuing Credit Default Swaps to supporters clubs!

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Post by LordDowlais Wed 17 Feb 2016, 1:05 pm

Some of these clubs MUST be living beyond their means, how can Wasps afford to pay 1.4 million+ for a single player ? 

How are the French paying so much ?

How are the provinces paying players half a million per season ?

Things will go jubblies up sooner or later.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Wed 17 Feb 2016, 1:07 pm

Pocock's entire contract would be worth 1.4m so that would be over two or three seasons. Whichever gets him back home in time for the next RWC.

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Post by LordDowlais Wed 17 Feb 2016, 1:10 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:Pocock's entire contract would be worth 1.4m so that would be over two or three seasons. Whichever gets him back home in time for the next RWC.


No it ain't according to this it's per year:-

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/revealed-worlds-best-paid-rugby-10903872

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Post by marty2086 Wed 17 Feb 2016, 1:22 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:Pocock's entire contract would be worth 1.4m so that would be over two or three seasons. Whichever gets him back home in time for the next RWC.


No it ain't according to this it's per year:-

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/revealed-worlds-best-paid-rugby-10903872

That's cut and paste reporting for you, Telegraph says 'The Premiership club have already put feelers out to his representatives and have indicated that they would offer him a package in excess of the £1.4 million that Racing 92 are paying Dan Carter.'

The package normally means the overall deal and given the indication that its slightly more/on par with Caters that figure fits

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Post by LordDowlais Wed 17 Feb 2016, 1:23 pm

So he will not be the highest paid player in the world then ?

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Post by marty2086 Wed 17 Feb 2016, 1:27 pm

LordDowlais wrote:So he will not be the highest paid player in the world then ?

Gross may be close, net he may win out because of tax

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Post by exile jack Wed 17 Feb 2016, 1:34 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Christ on a bike, there's some money to be earned in France, and Japan by the looks of things. How are Wasps going to stay under the salary cap if they are going to pay Pocock £1.4 million+ a season ? 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/11300999/Rugbys-rich-list-the-highest-paid-players-in-the-world.html?frame=3576484


the IRFU are paying Sexton and Puitua 500k each a year, that's massive money. I reckon the salary caps in Europe will disappear in time, where is all this money coming from. Shocked

Lord,sorry I meant to include rich owners.Some of the French papers have done detailed work on French club finances,Midi Olympique springs to mind.It's not sustainable.

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Post by marty2086 Wed 17 Feb 2016, 1:42 pm

Reading through the Telegraphs a bit further it does seem Pococks deal would be annual Shocked

I didn't think Carters deal took him over a million a year but apparently it does and Goromaru is only at the Reds for 2016

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Post by Scottrf Wed 17 Feb 2016, 1:45 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Some of these clubs MUST be living beyond their means, how can Wasps afford to pay 1.4 million+ for a single player ? 
They own the Ricoh which has a hotel, casino, bars and shops. And had a £35m raising bond issue earlier in the year. Making a lot of money outside of rugby.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 17 Feb 2016, 2:07 pm

New tv money as well.

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Post by PhilBB Wed 17 Feb 2016, 2:10 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Some of these clubs MUST be living beyond their means, how can Wasps afford to pay 1.4 million+ for a single player ? 

How are the French paying so much ?

How are the provinces paying players half a million per season ?

Things will go jubblies up sooner or later.

If you really want to know, instead of guessing, read this: http://www.lnr.fr/sites/default/files/zrapportdnacg_2015-web.pdf
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Post by PhilBB Wed 17 Feb 2016, 2:11 pm

exile jack wrote:It's not sustainable.

http://www.lnr.fr/sites/default/files/zrapportdnacg_2015-web.pdf

Says it is.
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Post by LordDowlais Wed 17 Feb 2016, 2:12 pm

PhilBB wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Some of these clubs MUST be living beyond their means, how can Wasps afford to pay 1.4 million+ for a single player ? 

How are the French paying so much ?

How are the provinces paying players half a million per season ?

Things will go jubblies up sooner or later.

If you really want to know, instead of guessing, read this: http://www.lnr.fr/sites/default/files/zrapportdnacg_2015-web.pdf


Cannot read French sorry.

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Post by PhilBB Wed 17 Feb 2016, 2:18 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Cannot read French sorry.

Have Google translate open in another window. You can then work out where the income comes from into the French game to judge for yourself.
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Post by little_badger Wed 17 Feb 2016, 2:28 pm

What is interesting is who are the world most VALUABLE players.

Experienced 10s and backrowers!

Dammit I knew being a 12 wouldn't pay off.

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Post by Notch Wed 17 Feb 2016, 2:52 pm

LordDowlais wrote:How are the provinces paying players half a million per season ?

Ulster have one of the most valuable kit sponsorship deals in Europe. We benefit from Kukri concentrating so much of their resources on one team as opposed to the big kit suppliers who tend to spread themselves over a huge number of different teams and sports. 1 million over two years would be a small fraction of that. We also have a multi-million pounds stadium which we don't have any debt on. The money from that came about because a huge pot of money was set aside by the Northern Ireland executive to build a new national stadium, but it fell by the wayside for political reasons- so that money had been raised and had to be spent. It was invested in the infrastructure of a number of different sports.

Also, we've been restricted in terms of what we've been allowed to spend by the IRFU in the last few years- and still very much are restricted- so we're very much deep in the black thank you. It does seem like sense has prevailed and they aren't going to restrict us from spending what we earn so long as we remain within budget, which will allow us to remain at the level of some of the English clubs. Competing with the French clubs is fantasy. Toulon have a handful of Piutaus. Giteau alone is worth twice as much.

Also, unlike English and French clubs, it's not a whole rake of players on these deals. You're talking one or two marquee players at Ulster and the rest earn a lot less. Many of our other big-name, big-salary players are paid for by central contracts which frees up money. For instance, you talk about Sexton- he's not paid for by Leinster. He's on a central contract.

As far as I know Leinster and Munster don't have any players on that kind of wage. Connacht certainly don't.
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Post by PhilBB Wed 17 Feb 2016, 3:08 pm

Notch wrote:

Ulster have one of the most valuable kit sponsorship deals in Europe. We benefit from Kukri concentrating so much of their resources on one team as opposed to the big kit suppliers who tend to spread themselves over a huge number of different teams and sports. 1 million over two years would be a small fraction of that. Also, we've been restricted in terms of what we've been allowed to spend by the IRFU in the last few years- and still very much are restricted- so we're very much deep in the black thank you. It does seem like sense has prevailed and they aren't going to restrict us from spending what we earn so long as we remain within budget, which will allow us to remain at the level of some of the English clubs. Competing with the French clubs is fantasy. Toulon have a handful of Piutaus. Giteau alone is worth twice as much.

Also, unlike English and French clubs, it's not a whole rake of players on these deals. You're talking one or two marquee players at Ulster and the rest earn a lot less. Many of our other big-name, big-salary players are paid for by central contracts which frees up money. For instance, you talk about Sexton- he's not paid for by Leinster. He's on a central contract.

As far as I know Leinster and Munster don't have any players on that kind of wage. Connacht certainly don't.

If £1m is a small fraction of the Kukri deal, please could you expand on that? For example, how much are Kukri paying and over what term?

Also, do you have any kind of link to the financial status of Ulster Rugby? Obviously it doesn't exist outside of the IRFU but, as a Branch, what kind of figures are you thinking of? It's interesting to know that Ulster rugby is cash rich after the UK Government gifted a Dublin company £14.7m to upgrade the stadium.

The English salary spend will be about £7m, or about €9m. The French cap being €10m.

As for the number of national contract players, only Trimble and Best have those yet you wrote that 'many ' have these.

Thanks in advance.

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Post by sad_gimp Wed 17 Feb 2016, 3:24 pm

I think Wasps' restructuring and combination of a hospitality business and rugby club in a relationship where each side feeds off the other is going to see them come to dominate English rugby in a few years.

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Post by marty2086 Wed 17 Feb 2016, 3:36 pm

PhilBB wrote: It's interesting to know that Ulster rugby is cash rich after the UK Government gifted a Dublin company £14.7m to upgrade the stadium.

Ulster Rugby Ltd is based in Belfast and it wasn't the UK govt but you think you'd have got some new material by now



PhilBB wrote:As for the number of national contract players, only Trimble and Best have those yet you wrote that 'many ' have these.

Payne and Bowe too and maybe Henderson

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Post by PhilBB Wed 17 Feb 2016, 3:40 pm

marty2086 wrote:
PhilBB wrote: It's interesting to know that Ulster rugby is cash rich after the UK Government gifted a Dublin company £14.7m to upgrade the stadium.

Ulster Rugby Ltd is based in Belfast and it wasn't the UK govt but you think you'd have got some new material by now



PhilBB wrote:As for the number of national contract players, only Trimble and Best have those yet you wrote that 'many ' have these.

Payne and Bowe too and maybe Henderson

Ravenhill is owned by the IRFU.

You're right, I missed Bowe: http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/international-rugby/who-are-the-irfus-14-centrally-contracted-players-34420079.html
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Post by marty2086 Wed 17 Feb 2016, 3:58 pm

PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
PhilBB wrote: It's interesting to know that Ulster rugby is cash rich after the UK Government gifted a Dublin company £14.7m to upgrade the stadium.

Ulster Rugby Ltd is based in Belfast and it wasn't the UK govt but you think you'd have got some new material by now



PhilBB wrote:As for the number of national contract players, only Trimble and Best have those yet you wrote that 'many ' have these.

Payne and Bowe too and maybe Henderson

Ravenhill is owned by the IRFU.

You're right, I missed Bowe: http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/international-rugby/who-are-the-irfus-14-centrally-contracted-players-34420079.html

Owned by the IRFU, operated by Ulster rugby a bit like the Dragons and WRU

Paynes Ulster contract is up this summer so expect him to be on the list soon

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Post by PhilBB Wed 17 Feb 2016, 4:04 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Owned by the IRFU, operated by Ulster rugby a bit like the Dragons and WRU

Paynes Ulster contract is up this summer so expect him to be on the list soon

The analogy is not accurate as the NGD and WRU are 50/50 owners of the team. Ulster is 100% owned by the IRFU, as is Ravenhill. The UK tax payer paid £14.7m for an asset owned in another country. All of those are undeniably factually correct statements.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/rugby/casement-and-ravenhill-to-get-an-impressive-facelift-28627878.html
http://www.belfastdaily.co.uk/2012/11/14/building-work-to-start-at-ravenhill-rugby-ground-next-month/
http://www.northernireland.gov.uk/news-dcal-141112-minister-gives-green

Why did you mention Ulster Rugby Ltd?
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Post by carpet baboon Wed 17 Feb 2016, 4:06 pm

And what's your issue with that?

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Post by PhilBB Wed 17 Feb 2016, 4:08 pm

carpet baboon wrote:And what's your issue with that?

So we can be clear, is your question:

What's the issue with UK money being spent on an asset owned by an independent company in a different country?
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Post by carpet baboon Wed 17 Feb 2016, 4:09 pm

Yes that is my question

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Post by PhilBB Wed 17 Feb 2016, 4:10 pm

carpet baboon wrote:Yes that is my question

Rightio.
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Post by carpet baboon Wed 17 Feb 2016, 4:12 pm

So?

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Post by PhilBB Wed 17 Feb 2016, 4:13 pm

carpet baboon wrote:So?

Sorry, I'm struggling to see it as a genuine question.
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Post by carpet baboon Wed 17 Feb 2016, 4:15 pm

What is your issue with UK funds being spent on a stadium that is used by and for the people of Belfast? Is it just that it's owned by the IRFU?

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Post by marty2086 Wed 17 Feb 2016, 4:16 pm

I mention Ulster Rugby because the money wasn't given to the IRFU but Ulster rugby as the articles state.

The IRFU probably would have had greater benefit from a national stadium as was the original plan as Ravenhill is limited in its uses due to being in a residential area and would have made plenty from selling it off.

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Post by PhilBB Wed 17 Feb 2016, 4:21 pm

carpet baboon wrote:What is your issue with UK funds being spent on a stadium that is used by and for  the people of Belfast? Is it just that it's owned by the IRFU?

Yes


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Post by PhilBB Wed 17 Feb 2016, 4:22 pm

marty2086 wrote:I mention Ulster Rugby because the money wasn't given to the IRFU but Ulster rugby as the articles state.

The IRFU probably would have had greater benefit from a national stadium as was the original plan as Ravenhill is limited in its uses due to being in a residential area and would have made plenty from selling it off.

No, you mentioned Ulster Rugby Ltd, not Ulster rugby. The money was spend on an asset owned by the IRFU.

UK tax payers money shouldn't be used to increase the value of an asset owned by a non-UK company, in my opinion. It's hardly a radical opinion to hold.
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Post by PhilBB Wed 17 Feb 2016, 4:25 pm

marty2086 wrote:
PhilBB wrote: It's interesting to know that Ulster rugby is cash rich after the UK Government gifted a Dublin company £14.7m to upgrade the stadium.

Ulster Rugby Ltd is based in Belfast and it wasn't the UK govt but you think you'd have got some new material by now

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Post by carpet baboon Wed 17 Feb 2016, 4:26 pm

PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:I mention Ulster Rugby because the money wasn't given to the IRFU but Ulster rugby as the articles state.

The IRFU probably would have had greater benefit from a national stadium as was the original plan as Ravenhill is limited in its uses due to being in a residential area and would have made plenty from selling it off.

No, you mentioned Ulster Rugby Ltd, not Ulster rugby. The money was spend on an asset owned by the IRFU.

UK tax payers money shouldn't be used to increase the value of an asset owned by a non-UK company, in my opinion. It's hardly a radical opinion to hold.

In that case Phil I would suggest you don't look into what the UK government invest in then. It may come as a shock.

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Post by BamBam Wed 17 Feb 2016, 4:27 pm


Are you sure you're not just jealous the money didn't go to some Welsh backwater?

I'm all for the UK government giving money towards sporting ventures, better that than funding arms dealers and despots around the world

edit - beaten to it !

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Post by Guest Wed 17 Feb 2016, 4:27 pm

PhilBB wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:And what's your issue with that?

So we can be clear, is your question:

What's the issue with UK money being spent on an asset owned by an independent company in a different country?

What different country? Kingspan is owned by Ulster Rugby, and Ulster Rugby is based in the UK.

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Post by PhilBB Wed 17 Feb 2016, 4:29 pm

carpet baboon wrote:
In that case Phil I would suggest you don't look into what the UK government invest in then. It may come as a shock.

Wonderful, thanks.
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Post by PhilBB Wed 17 Feb 2016, 4:29 pm

Munchkin wrote:

What different country? Kingspan is owned by Ulster Rugby, and Ulster Rugby is based in the UK.

Ravenhill is owned by the IRFU, Munchkin
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Post by PhilBB Wed 17 Feb 2016, 4:31 pm

BamBam wrote:
Are you sure you're not just jealous the money didn't go to some Welsh backwater?

I'm all for the UK government giving money towards sporting ventures, better that than funding arms dealers and despots around the world


Yes, a 'Welsh backwater'. Rightio.

I didn't realise there were only two options - spunking it on the IRFU or a des....

Hang on: "Despotism is a form of government in which a single entity rules with absolute power."

Ah, now I can see the correlation.
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Post by Guest Wed 17 Feb 2016, 4:31 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:

What different country? Kingspan is owned by Ulster Rugby, and Ulster Rugby is based in the UK.

Ravenhill is owned by the IRFU, Munchkin

The grounds? The buildings? Have you a link? Who owns the Munster stadium that Munster are in debt for?


Last edited by Munchkin on Wed 17 Feb 2016, 4:33 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by marty2086 Wed 17 Feb 2016, 4:32 pm

PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:I mention Ulster Rugby because the money wasn't given to the IRFU but Ulster rugby as the articles state.

The IRFU probably would have had greater benefit from a national stadium as was the original plan as Ravenhill is limited in its uses due to being in a residential area and would have made plenty from selling it off.

No, you mentioned Ulster Rugby Ltd, not Ulster rugby. The money was spend on an asset owned by the IRFU.

UK tax payers money shouldn't be used to increase the value of an asset owned by a non-UK company, in my opinion. It's hardly a radical opinion to hold.

The two are one and the same, but the IRFU are owners through their subsidiary who are Ulster and are based and operate out of the UK as Ulster Rugby Ltd

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Post by carpet baboon Wed 17 Feb 2016, 4:35 pm

PhilBB wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:
In that case Phil I would suggest you don't look into what the UK government invest in then. It may come as a shock.

Wonderful, thanks.

Always happy to help Phil.

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Post by Guest Wed 17 Feb 2016, 4:46 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:

What different country? Kingspan is owned by Ulster Rugby, and Ulster Rugby is based in the UK.

Ravenhill is owned by the IRFU, Munchkin

Just checked it myself, even if it was Wiki, and you're right. It appears that the stadium is owned by IRFU, but then the IRFU is a cross-border organisation.

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Post by exile jack Wed 17 Feb 2016, 6:26 pm

PhilBB wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Cannot read French sorry.

Have Google translate open in another window. You can then work out where the income comes from into the French game to judge for yourself.

The French Federation have a body(the DNACG) that produces an annual report on LNR finances.As I can just about order food,drink and travel in France I got friends of mine to get a copy of the 2015 Report(105+ pages) and take me through it.What I took from this was the commercial integration of rugby into the broader financial structure of several French clubs.In the past a number of French clubs have been relegated from the Top14 and several clubs penalised for financial irregularities.As the wage bill rises the level of creativity required within their commercial structures will increase.That's why I don't think the thing is sustainable.

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Post by PhilBB Wed 17 Feb 2016, 6:38 pm

marty2086 wrote:

The two are one and the same, but the IRFU are owners through their subsidiary who are Ulster and are based and operate out of the UK as Ulster Rugby Ltd

Wrong.

Ulster Rugby ltd doesn't 'operate' in that fashion. It's turnover is so small that it posts abbreviated accounts.
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Post by PhilBB Wed 17 Feb 2016, 6:39 pm

Munchkin wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:

What different country? Kingspan is owned by Ulster Rugby, and Ulster Rugby is based in the UK.

Ravenhill is owned by the IRFU, Munchkin

The grounds? The buildings? Have you a link? Who owns the Munster stadium that Munster are in debt for?

The IRFU annual report tells you all you need to know about Thomond Park and the company set up to build the new stadium. The ground is owned by the IRFU, just like Ravenhill.
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Post by PhilBB Wed 17 Feb 2016, 6:40 pm

Munchkin wrote:
Just checked it myself, even if it was Wiki, and you're right. It appears that the stadium is owned by IRFU, but then the IRFU is a cross-border organisation.

No, it isn't a cross border organisation. The assets are held by a solely Dublin based organisation.
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