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Sanchez: We never asked Ward for catchweight

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Sanchez: We never asked Ward for catchweight Empty Sanchez: We never asked Ward for catchweight

Post by Herman Jaeger Sat 25 Jun 2016, 9:40 am

http://www.boxingscene.com/golovkins-coach-we-never-asked-andre-ward-164-weight--106038

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sat 25 Jun 2016, 10:52 am

Six years as champ and he still hasn't fought anybody....He wants to though..... Bless him !!..




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Post by Mr Bounce Sat 25 Jun 2016, 12:03 pm

Truss do you genuinely think that if there was a Super 6 in middleweight that Golovkin would turn it down? Get real. He wants to fight anyone at HIS OWN WEIGHT. So does Ward. Ward cleans out SMW, beats the man at 175 (at 168 at the heavier man's whim) & is now at 175, presumably because he is struggling to make 168 now and there's no challenge there anymore. 

Golovkin is trying hard to clear out 160. Should he go higher? No - because a) he wants to unify (no shame in that) & b) he isn't the biggest middleweight. It doesn't matter if the fight was mooted or not. It didn't happen. And I would bet my house that one of the reasons was that at the time (several years ago now) Golovkin wasn't a big enough name. Let's also not forget Ward's well-documented promotional issues so it was unlikely that the fight would have gone ahead anyway. 

Let's let these two carve their own niche in their own divisions. They're both big achievers. Do they have to fight? Not now. It's like Calzaghe vs Jones back in 97. Was never gonna happen at the time.

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Post by milkyboy Sat 25 Jun 2016, 4:01 pm

Golovkin doesn't have to go to a higher weight... Unless he wants really big fights for legacy.

GGG himself has said he'd fight anyone from 154-168. I believe him.

The problem is when you have a big mouthed trainer who obviously doesn't remember stating they'd only fight ward at catchweight. It impacts on his fighter's credibility.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sat 25 Jun 2016, 4:35 pm

If I don't get reports in on time...No matter if I say Steve and Gerry were late supplying their findings or the data collected was insufficient..It's still my responsibility...

He's fought average fighters for six years and that is all she wrote..

His record he's responsible for it..

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Post by Herman Jaeger Mon 27 Jun 2016, 7:56 am

Why did Ward need some tune ups? Golovkin was ready, I don't see why Ward wasn't ready.

I've said it before, not sure if Ward really fancied the fight.

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Post by BoxingFan88 Mon 27 Jun 2016, 8:13 am

Herman Jaeger wrote:Why did Ward need some tune ups? Golovkin was ready, I don't see why Ward wasn't ready.

I've said it before, not sure if Ward really fancied the fight.

Personally I don't think Ward could have made 168

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Post by Herman Jaeger Mon 27 Jun 2016, 8:35 am

That's true, could have just been a weight thing, I suppose.

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Post by milkyboy Mon 27 Jun 2016, 9:08 am

Gents.
1. GGG's team on turning down ward... Last year. Note ward apparently asking for 1 tune up and a fight in 2016. Golovkin's team saying maybe 2017.
http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-andre-ward-boxing-gennady-golovkin-hbo-tom-loeffler-20150915-story.html

2. Sanchez, stating he'd only be interested in a fight 'half way'.
youtu.be/sgh-lkgDpYg

Draw your own conclusions but I'd advise against basing your judgement on who did or didn't want this fight on the words of Abel Sanchez.

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Post by Herman Jaeger Tue 28 Jun 2016, 9:46 am

I guess Truss blames Golovkin for Canelo relinquishing  picard

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Post by Guest Tue 28 Jun 2016, 10:24 am

He does appear to have gone quiet on that particular subject.

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Post by BoxingFan88 Tue 28 Jun 2016, 10:39 am

milkyboy wrote:Gents.
1. GGG's team on turning down ward... Last year. Note ward apparently asking for 1 tune up and a fight in 2016. Golovkin's team saying maybe 2017.
http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-andre-ward-boxing-gennady-golovkin-hbo-tom-loeffler-20150915-story.html

2. Sanchez, stating he'd only be interested in a fight 'half way'.
youtu.be/sgh-lkgDpYg

Draw your own conclusions but I'd advise against basing your judgement on who did or didn't want this fight on the words of Abel Sanchez.

"Loeffler said the Roc Nation email was received hours after he’d already announced Golovkin’s fight with Lemieux at Madison Square Garden, with Roc Nation aware the World Boxing Council designated Golovkin (33-0, 30 knockouts) the mandatory challenger to a then-pending Miguel Cotto-Saul “Canelo” Alvarez title bout that will be fought Nov. 21. Roc Nation promotes Cotto."

Doing a BJS

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Post by AdamT Tue 28 Jun 2016, 4:51 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:If I don't get reports in on time...No matter if I say Steve and Gerry were late supplying their findings or the data collected was insufficient..It's still my responsibility...

He's fought average fighters for six years and that is all she wrote..

His record he's responsible for it..

Lay off the kid!!

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Post by milkyboy Tue 28 Jun 2016, 5:24 pm

BoxingFan88 wrote:
milkyboy wrote:Gents.
1. GGG's team on turning down ward... Last year. Note ward apparently asking for 1 tune up and a fight in 2016. Golovkin's team saying maybe 2017.
http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-andre-ward-boxing-gennady-golovkin-hbo-tom-loeffler-20150915-story.html

2. Sanchez, stating he'd only be interested in a fight 'half way'.
youtu.be/sgh-lkgDpYg

Draw your own conclusions but I'd advise against basing your judgement on who did or didn't want this fight on the words of Abel Sanchez.

"Loeffler said the Roc Nation email was received hours after he’d already announced Golovkin’s fight with Lemieux at Madison Square Garden, with Roc Nation aware the World Boxing Council designated Golovkin (33-0, 30 knockouts) the mandatory challenger to a then-pending Miguel Cotto-Saul “Canelo” Alvarez title bout that will be fought Nov. 21. Roc Nation promotes Cotto."

Doing a BJS

Fine work... Selecting the one piece that suits your narrative! In amongst all the he said she said stuff the only thing not disputed is that ward offered a fight and Golovkin's team turned it down.

The only other thing that can be picked out as fact from what I posted is that Sanchez is 'forgetful'

So we're clear, Golovkin would be right to chase the potential cotto/Alvarez fight before ward, so no beef with him declining ward at that time.


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Post by Hammersmith harrier Tue 28 Jun 2016, 6:31 pm

Ward subsequently signing to fight the bigger and more dangerous fight for him in Kovalev sort of poo poos on any suggestion he was ducking/avoiding GGG.

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Post by Herman Jaeger Tue 28 Jun 2016, 8:12 pm

Dempsey had more problems with Tommy Gibbons whom he outweighed by 13 odd pounds, than he did with behemoth Willard.

Ward might, just might view Kovalev as the lesser of two evils, though they are both freaky hitters which he'll no doubt soon enough find out.

Reports that Golovkin put Sergey down in sparring too.

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Post by Herman Jaeger Tue 28 Jun 2016, 8:32 pm

Don't poo poo it just yet, we don't know the truth just yet but that's what we're trying to find out.

Until you can definitively prove it one way or the other, I won't poo poo it.

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Post by milkyboy Tue 28 Jun 2016, 9:29 pm

Kovalev himself admits he went down to a bodyshot, hermy.

Although hammy described it as tougher, I don't think the point is really whether kovalev is a tougher assignment. Both would be tough assignments. The real point is it's golovkin who is still to meet a top rated fighter, but some in here are happy to trash ward as a ducker... When he's the one who went on to take a high-risk tough fight.

Believe me, I really like golovkin and I think ward is a smug arrogant jerk, but you started this thread off with a piece from Abel Sanchez butchering ward and you treated it as gospel. I've posted pieces showing sanchez to be talking out of his behind, on this very subject... And Golovkin's promoter saying ward can come back in 2017... but it seems the GGG monster story still outweighs any evidence to the contrary.

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Post by BoxingFan88 Wed 29 Jun 2016, 9:13 pm

Ward hasn't impressed me for a long long time, anyone who says otherwise is living in the past

He fought the best because he was allowed to because of the super six tournament, in which he got all his fights in his own back yard

AFTER the super six, he has done ABSOLUTELY nothing

IF he fights Kovalev we can start talking about him as relevant and a p4p great, but as soon as the super six finished so did Ward fighting top level fighters

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 29 Jun 2016, 9:28 pm

Ward doesn't need to do anything...

He's been there and got the T-shirt..

Geez these GGG fans are something...Criticise anybody who's been there and done it and arselick a guy that hasn't. .

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Post by milkyboy Wed 29 Jun 2016, 9:57 pm

BoxingFan88 wrote:Ward hasn't impressed me for a long long time, anyone who says otherwise is living in the past

He fought the best because he was allowed to because of the super six tournament, in which he got all his fights in his own back yard

AFTER the super six, he has done ABSOLUTELY nothing

IF he fights Kovalev we can start talking about him as relevant and a p4p great, but as soon as the super six finished so did Ward fighting top level fighters

He looked very sharp against dawson, a result that looked better at the time than it does in retrospect. It's hard to impress when you're that inactive.

I agree he's looked a step slower since his lay-off. I'm undecided about the kovalev fight but you can't knock the guy for taking it... Quite the opposite. Meanwhile, golovkin lines up eubank.

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Post by hazharrison Thu 30 Jun 2016, 4:14 pm

Few thoughts on this:

1. The idea that Ward offered Golovkin a fight - which he then ducked - is disingenuous. An formal offer appears to have been made after Golovkin was tied into a fight (Lemiuex) with his next bout (theoretically) lined up against Canelo/Cotto. A Cotto/Canelo fight - which Golovkin had doggedly worked his way into position for - was by far Golovkin's best option: a lineal championship, the WBC belt (to complete his set) and a PPV fight. Ward offered none of that.
2. Ward genuinely feels he'd offered Golovkin out and Golovkin has ducked him.
3. Ward has consistently fought the best available opposition, yet his career was in complete stasis during all of the recent posturing.
4. There has been no urgency on Loeffler's part to make a Ward fight. It's a high-risk fight, and one where Golovkin would be giving away physical advantages and his bargaining power at 160 (should he move up and lose).
5. As Milky has highlighted - Sanchez is a bit mixed about what offers (and the nature of them) had been bandied back and forth.
6. Bottom line is that both fighters were at different weights, there wasn't ever a realistic offer made from either side.

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Post by milkyboy Thu 30 Jun 2016, 9:36 pm

Obviously, points 1,2 & 6 are dependent on who's story you believe.

If Ward did deliberately wait until the Lemieux fight was made, then it doesn't look like he was too serious. If you take his word that offers were made before it, then it takes a different slant.

Truth is we don't know.

Ultimately, the Lemieux followed by cotto/Alvarez option was the obvious route to take for golovkin, and the fact that ward has signed for kovalev doesn't suggest he's shirking challenges, so I'm inclined to lean to ward being serious but the timing simply not being ideal.

Maybe if, and it's a big if, ward comes through kovalev, and ggg is still scratching for middleweights, there might be appetite for this next year. If the weight gap isn't now insurmountable.

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Post by hazharrison Fri 01 Jul 2016, 9:57 am

milkyboy wrote:Obviously, points 1,2 & 6 are dependent on who's story you believe.

If Ward did deliberately wait until the Lemieux fight was made, then it doesn't look like he was too serious. If you take his word that offers were made before it, then it takes a different slant.

Truth is we don't know.

Ultimately, the Lemieux followed by cotto/Alvarez option was the obvious route to take for golovkin, and the fact that ward has signed for kovalev doesn't suggest he's shirking challenges, so I'm inclined to lean to ward being serious but the timing simply not being ideal.

Maybe if, and it's a big if, ward comes through kovalev, and ggg is still scratching for middleweights, there might be appetite for this next year. If the weight gap isn't now insurmountable.

I don't think point 2 is in doubt. Ward genuinely believes that.

I firmly believe Ward's team did make offers to Golovkin; however, they never even made it to the negotiating table. Any fighter could fax something to Loeffler asking for "50-50". A rejection of an offer of that type (that isn't deemed sensible) isn't one side ducking another.

It's a shame Ward was in the garage, stuck in a promotional wrangle and then ended up wrapped up in a series of warm-ups (what's he up to now, three or four?). It's a shame Golovkin is stuck in no-man's land trying to fight star names who don't want to fight him.

Hopefully they can still meet in the next year or so but it almost seems impossible to make big fights these days, in the absence of genuinely mandated number one contenders (rather than Jo Jo Dan types offered up by splinter groups).

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Post by milkyboy Fri 01 Jul 2016, 11:01 am

My point was, if ward really believes he made genuine offers before the Lemieux fight was signed then it questions loeffler's version of events. All he said, she said.

It does look unlikely they'll fight. Would ward come back to 168? Would ggg take it at that weight in the future?

Shame... would be a fascinating fight.

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Post by Dipper Brown Fri 01 Jul 2016, 3:58 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Ward subsequently signing to fight the bigger and more dangerous fight for him in Kovalev sort of poo poos on any suggestion he was ducking/avoiding GGG.

So by that logic, you can't criticise Khan for fighting Canelo ahead of Brook? That would be a double standard, wouldn't it?

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 01 Jul 2016, 4:02 pm

Using logic you can't criticise Ward for cleaning up 168 either...

A detail most GGG arselickers forget..


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Post by hazharrison Fri 01 Jul 2016, 10:27 pm

Yet you can criticise Golovkin for cleaning up 160?

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Sat 02 Jul 2016, 11:09 am

Dipper Brown wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:Ward subsequently signing to fight the bigger and more dangerous fight for him in Kovalev sort of poo poos on any suggestion he was ducking/avoiding GGG.

So by that logic, you can't criticise Khan for fighting Canelo ahead of Brook? That would be a double standard, wouldn't it?

They're two entirely different situations, GGG and Kovalev were the only two options Ward had in divisions either side of him, he's moved up to fight arguably the more dangerous of the two in a fight he can win. Khan however moved up to fight Alvarez for nothing more than money in a fight he couldn't win knowing it wouldn't damage his reputation.

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Post by AdamT Mon 04 Jul 2016, 10:28 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
Dipper Brown wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:Ward subsequently signing to fight the bigger and more dangerous fight for him in Kovalev sort of poo poos on any suggestion he was ducking/avoiding GGG.

So by that logic, you can't criticise Khan for fighting Canelo ahead of Brook? That would be a double standard, wouldn't it?

They're two entirely different situations, GGG and Kovalev were the only two options Ward had in divisions either side of him, he's moved up to fight arguably the more dangerous of the two in a fight he can win. Khan however moved up to fight Alvarez for nothing more than money in a fight he couldn't win knowing it wouldn't damage his reputation.

Yep. Amir's only risk, was taking a huge beating. His reputation was never on the line. If he had of pulled off the miracle and survived, it would have paid off massively. He took the big money fight and every man and his dog knew he would get knocked out. His stock is still the same. He can still fight Brook or whoever for the same money.

On the other hand Ward was the best 168 fighter and possibly the best fighter in the sport. He moves up a division, to face one of the hardest hitting, dangerous fighters in boxing. His reputation is certainly on the line. If Ward wins, he has a massive claim to being the best p4p. If he were to get stopped, his invincibility would be gone, along with immediate pay days/ppv fights. It is definitely a bigger risk, but a risk that could make him into a huge draw if he wins.

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Post by milkyboy Mon 04 Jul 2016, 11:11 am

Fighters moving up in weight, always have that, 'he was too big' excuse, just like fighters moving down have that 'weak at the weight' excuse.

Hatton had the same excuse lined up, when he fought mayweather... but i've no doubt he went in thinking he could win, but it was a no risk fight. I've no doubt Khan did the same.

Popping up in weight, when its a bounce rather than maturing to a new weight, does generally carry less risk to reputation.  If kovalev knocks out ward, it will be interesting to see if Ward continues as a light heavy. There's a feeling he's now matured into the weight, but we'll see.

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Post by AdamT Mon 04 Jul 2016, 11:17 am

I think Ward might struggle to make 168 now. It's a very dangerous fight for Ward, Kovalev is really good. I still think Ward will win on points, but it will be a tough fight and will most likely warrant a rematch!

Yeah Hatton loves the weight excuse with Floyd. He was probably the same weight as Floyd on the night. Hatton was a bit of a beast against smaller 140 fighters, but would always struggle with the bigger men.

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Post by hazharrison Mon 04 Jul 2016, 12:41 pm

milkyboy wrote:Fighters moving up in weight, always have that, 'he was too big' excuse, just like fighters moving down have that 'weak at the weight' excuse.

Hatton had the same excuse lined up, when he fought mayweather... but i've no doubt he went in thinking he could win, but it was a no risk fight. I've no doubt Khan did the same.

Popping up in weight, when its a bounce rather than maturing to a new weight, does generally carry less risk to reputation.  If kovalev knocks out ward, it will be interesting to see if Ward continues as a light heavy. There's a feeling he's now matured into the weight, but we'll see.

That's why I'm not a fan of catch-weights.

Far better to have two good fighters fight at the same weight - like Thurman vs Porter.

As much as we nail Canelo (well, some of us) as a beneficiary of day before weigh ins, Hatton benefitted just as much from being able to drain down to 140 (with the help of Kerry Kayes).

Ward seems capable at 175. It's just a shame his opposition has been largely poor-average, so we're not definite either way.

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Post by Mr Bounce Mon 04 Jul 2016, 12:50 pm

I for one am really looking forward to the Kovalev vs Ward fight. My only concern is if Ward picks up a nasty cut or an injury in his tune-up (s).


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Post by BoxingFan88 Mon 04 Jul 2016, 5:56 pm

Mr Bounce wrote:I for one am really looking forward to the Kovalev vs Ward fight. My only concern is if Ward picks up a nasty cut or an injury in his tune-up (s).


OR point blank just pulls out

This fight is the most exciting fight of the entire year, closely followed by Postol vs Crawford

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