Pro12 introduces neutral TMOs

First topic message reminder :

A good move by PRO12, one which is to be applauded.


Martin Anayi:

“Ultimately, if you are listening to a match on television and you hear an Irish TMO speaking at a match in Ireland, as happened with Connacht versus the Ospreys, you are going to to think they are biased, even though we know they are not.”

WalesOnline.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Like making up your own meaning of words!

FFS.

Here you go. Taken from the web:-

cred·i·bil·i·ty
ˌkredəˈbilədē/
noun
the quality of being trusted and believed in.
"the government's loss of credibility"
synonyms: trustworthiness, reliability, dependability, integrity; reputation, status
"does he possess the moral credibility the party is looking for?"

The bits in BOLD.

The very fact, that we are talking about the refereeing situation means that the credibility of the Pro12 has been affected. Whether I believe it, you believe it, or anyone else. The fact that it is a constant debate, suggests that others are losing faith.

Now please, go and annoy somebody else.

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Marty, no wonder you argue with everybody on here. Your arrogance is astounding. I give up talking with you on this.

You made a statement, you cannot back it up. Yet it is me who is in the wrong ? Only on V2.

Which statement are you talking about?

That the UK judicial system is corrupt, and that the RFU employ the elite players in England. You said all this, yet I have to prove you wrong.

Look its clear. If someone pays you money for a job you do, they are not your employer (an english fan confirms!). Unless you are an irish ref and then whoever pays you is your employer. And pointing out contradictions in arguments is arrogant. So ye feckers, stop being all arrogant with ye're fancy pants logic.

So what do people think of Anayi's proposal to have more neutral refs then?

I think it's a good move and adds to the credibility and quality of the league and will help reduce the perceptions and accusations of bias from fans.

wolfball wrote:If someone pays you money for a job you do, they are not your employer

I get payed by loads of customers for doing jobs, yet they are not my employer. They are paying for a service.

Pot Hale wrote:So what do people think of Anayi's proposal to have more neutral refs then?

I think it's a good move and adds to the credibility and quality of the league and will help reduce the perceptions and accusations of bias from fans.  

I think it's great news and should be applauded, also, if he carries through wit hall his other promises, he could very well be the best thing that has happened to the Pro12.

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Marty, no wonder you argue with everybody on here. Your arrogance is astounding. I give up talking with you on this.

You made a statement, you cannot back it up. Yet it is me who is in the wrong ? Only on V2.

Which statement are you talking about?

That the UK judicial system is corrupt, and that the RFU employ the elite players in England. You said all this, yet I have to prove you wrong.  

I never said corrupt so please don't put words in my mouth

Yes I said they employ them, in what world is playing rugby a service role?

And if they are being paid by the RFU why does it matter if they are employed or not, the same principle exists that both receive money from the same source?

LordDowlais wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Like making up your own meaning of words!

FFS.

Here you go. Taken from the web:-

cred·i·bil·i·ty
ˌkredəˈbilədē/
noun
the quality of being trusted and believed in.
"the government's loss of credibility"
synonyms: trustworthiness, reliability, dependability, integrity; reputation, status
"does he possess the moral credibility the party is looking for?"

The bits in BOLD.

The very fact, that we are talking about the refereeing situation means that the credibility of the Pro12 has been affected. Whether I believe it, you believe it, or anyone else. The fact that it is a constant debate, suggests that others are losing faith.

Now please, go and annoy somebody else.

Ah so you did find out the definition was to be trusted or believed in. So again why do you believe there is no bias yet not trust the process and/or people?

marty2086 wrote:I never said corrupt so please don't put words in my mouth

They might not have been your words, but that is what you meant. Please, stop trying to be clever.

marty2086 wrote:Yes I said they employ them, in what world is playing rugby a service role?

But that is the point. The RFU do not employ them. They pay them whilst they represent them. They are still under employment to their clubs. The clubs get a payment for the use of the players as well, don't they ?

marty2086 wrote:And if they are being paid by the RFU why does it matter if they are employed or not, the same principle exists that both receive money from the same source?

Ah, so it's the same principle now is it ?

No 7&1/2 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Like making up your own meaning of words!

FFS.

Here you go. Taken from the web:-

cred·i·bil·i·ty
ˌkredəˈbilədē/
noun
the quality of being trusted and believed in.
"the government's loss of credibility"
synonyms: trustworthiness, reliability, dependability, integrity; reputation, status
"does he possess the moral credibility the party is looking for?"

The bits in BOLD.

The very fact, that we are talking about the refereeing situation means that the credibility of the Pro12 has been affected. Whether I believe it, you believe it, or anyone else. The fact that it is a constant debate, suggests that others are losing faith.

Now please, go and annoy somebody else.

Ah so you did find out the definition was to be trusted or believed in. So again why do you believe there is no bias yet not trust the process and/or people?

You are really having trouble with this aren't you ?

I put the words in bold.

Now stop trying to be clever. You are not, and you are making a fool of yourself. Please, I will ask you nicely leave it alone.

I'll leave it then after just going back to the point. No I don't think the reputation of the league is affected as the vast majority agree there is no bias.

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:I never said corrupt so please don't put words in my mouth

They might not have been your words, but that is what you meant. Please, stop trying to be clever.

Its not what I said or meant so please stop telling me it is, if you think it is then that's on you

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Yes I said they employ them, in what world is playing rugby a service role?

But that is the point. The RFU do not employ them. They pay them whilst they represent them. They are still under employment to their clubs. The clubs get a payment for the use of the players as well, don't they ?

They can be employed by more than one company

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:And if they are being paid by the RFU why does it matter if they are employed or not, the same principle exists that both receive money from the same source?

Ah, so it's the same principle now is it ?

No you are wrong but you are arguing with me about the minutiae yet if the same person is paying both how is it still not an issue with you? It seems you apply the same principles differently depending on how you want to argue

Just to add, the TMO for the game I quoted was somebody named Jude Quinn (never heard of him), there has been a TMO involved in a number of Welsh teams matches by the name of Aurwel Morgan he is from Glyneath and NEVER REFEREED a game in his life, he was a member of the committee of the WRU until very recently, there have been numerous complaints about Marshall Kilgore, the most recent of which was Scarlets against Ulster, Derek Bevan a former WC Referee has had numerous complaints about him by Welsh supporters, and you don't have to say anything about Scottish officiating, I have also read numerous times on here about the competency of referees like Fitzgibbon and Clancy by IRISH SUPPORTERS, there are more than likely MANY more that could be identified by ALL countries supporters on here.

 So what Ayani is doing is a step in the right direction, will it stop all doubts about the credibility of our League, NO, but for some it never will.

wayne wrote:Just to add, the TMO for the game I quoted was somebody named Jude Quinn (never heard of him), there has been a TMO involved in a number of Welsh teams matches by the name of Aurwel Morgan he is from Glyneath and NEVER REFEREED a game in his life, he was a member of the committee of the WRU until very recently, there have been numerous complaints about Marshall Kilgore, the most recent of which was Scarlets against Ulster, Derek Bevan a former WC Referee has had numerous complaints about him by Welsh supporters, and you don't have to say anything about Scottish officiating, I have also read numerous times on here about the competency of referees like Fitzgibbon and Clancy by IRISH SUPPORTERS, there are more than likely MANY more that could be identified by ALL countries supporters on here.

 So what Ayani is doing is a step in the right direction, will it stop all doubts about the credibility of our League, NO, but for some it never will.

Agreed. Good examples.
Probably the most sensible comment in this discussion to date.

No 7&1/2 wrote: the vast majority agree there is no bias.

Says who?

Anyone who thinks there is a 'vast' group of people out there who give a toss about the PrO'12 either way
is in no position to go talking about credibility.

Stone Motif wrote:

Anyone who thinks there is a 'vast' group of people out there who give a toss about the PrO'12 either way
is in no position to go talking about credibility.

Probably the most sensible comment in this discussion to date.

Stone Motif wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote: the vast majority agree there is no bias.

Says who?  

Anyone who thinks there is a 'vast' group of people out there who give a toss about the PrO'12 either way
is in no position to go talking about credibility.

A bit like your 'vast' intellect ...

Munchkin wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote: the vast majority agree there is no bias.

Says who?  

Anyone who thinks there is a 'vast' group of people out there who give a toss about the PrO'12 either way
is in no position to go talking about credibility.

A bit like your 'vast' intellect ...

That the best you can do Munch?

Well, it is late.

Munchkin wrote:Well, it is late.

Quiet midnight chuckle by me.

Pot Hale wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Well, it is late.

Quiet midnight chuckle by me.

Faint morning hope of improvement from me. There's always the stylings of Martin Anayi to take the comedy output from Ireland up a notch I spose. Have you heard the one about the PrO'12 US franchise?

Stone Motif wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote: the vast majority agree there is no bias.

Says who?  

Anyone who thinks there is a 'vast' group of people out there who give a toss about the PrO'12 either way
is in no position to go talking about credibility.

of very great extent or quantity; immense.
"a vast plain full of orchards"

synonyms: huge, extensive, expansive, broad, wide, boundless, immeasurable, limitless, infinite, enormous, gigantic, very big, very large, great, giant, massive, colossal, mammoth, immense, tremendous, mighty, stupendous, monumental, epic, prodigious, mountainous, monstrous, titanic, towering, elephantine, king-sized, king-size, gargantuan, Herculean, Brobdingnagian; More

Does 1.2m fans through the turnstiles count as vast then? Not to mention those who watched on tv? The many employees of the club, league, unions, sponsors, production teams etc who rely on the league for jobs? What about the hundreds of players who play in the league? The thousands of young players who are hoping to play in it? Those numbers count as vast?

Seems some just want to be miserable and run things down regardless of reality because they are cantankerous

Neutral refs/TMOs should have been the norm since the start of the Magners/Rabbo/Guinness league.

Its possibly too late but its an important step to take as I believe it gives the league more credibility and puts it further on the path to being somewhat professional.

What I really want to see though is better training and more officials from the Scottish and Italian unions. I think supplying a minimum number of officials should be part of joining the league.

marty2086 wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote: the vast majority agree there is no bias.

Says who?  

Anyone who thinks there is a 'vast' group of people out there who give a toss about the PrO'12 either way
is in no position to go talking about credibility.

of very great extent or quantity; immense.
"a vast plain full of orchards"

synonyms: huge, extensive, expansive, broad, wide, boundless, immeasurable, limitless, infinite, enormous, gigantic, very big, very large, great, giant, massive, colossal, mammoth, immense, tremendous, mighty, stupendous, monumental, epic, prodigious, mountainous, monstrous, titanic, towering, elephantine, king-sized, king-size, gargantuan, Herculean, Brobdingnagian; More

Does 1.2m fans through the turnstiles count as vast then? Not to mention those who watched on tv? The many employees of the club, league, unions, sponsors, production teams etc who rely on the league for jobs? What about the hundreds of players who play in the league? The thousands of young players who are hoping to play in it? Those numbers count as vast?

Seems some just want to be miserable and run things down regardless of reality because they are cantankerous

A bit like when you see the pile of BS MikeyDragon spouts and it looks massive. But then you are confronted by the gargantuan, mammoth, huge, behemoth cesspit of effluent you come out with, and suddenly Ol' Mikey's 'contributions' look like a spec of bird poop on a windshield.

Stone Motif wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote: the vast majority agree there is no bias.

Says who?  

Anyone who thinks there is a 'vast' group of people out there who give a toss about the PrO'12 either way
is in no position to go talking about credibility.

of very great extent or quantity; immense.
"a vast plain full of orchards"

synonyms: huge, extensive, expansive, broad, wide, boundless, immeasurable, limitless, infinite, enormous, gigantic, very big, very large, great, giant, massive, colossal, mammoth, immense, tremendous, mighty, stupendous, monumental, epic, prodigious, mountainous, monstrous, titanic, towering, elephantine, king-sized, king-size, gargantuan, Herculean, Brobdingnagian; More

Does 1.2m fans through the turnstiles count as vast then? Not to mention those who watched on tv? The many employees of the club, league, unions, sponsors, production teams etc who rely on the league for jobs? What about the hundreds of players who play in the league? The thousands of young players who are hoping to play in it? Those numbers count as vast?

Seems some just want to be miserable and run things down regardless of reality because they are cantankerous

A bit like when you see the pile of BS MikeyDragon spouts and it looks massive.  But then you are confronted by the gargantuan, mammoth, huge, behemoth cesspit of effluent you come out with, and suddenly Ol' Mikey's 'contributions' look like a spec of bird poop on a windshield.

That the best you can come up with?

Do any of the Scots on here feel like the Welsh (or at least many of the representative group we have on here) regarding the structure, governance, match-day arrangements, TV coverage, money distribution, etc. of the PRO12 ?

Irish Londoner wrote:Do any of the Scots on here feel like the Welsh (or at least many of the representative group we have on here) regarding the structure, governance, match-day arrangements, TV coverage, money distribution, etc. of the PRO12 ?

Och aye

Irish Londoner wrote:Do any of the Scots on here feel like the Welsh (or at least many of the representative group we have on here) regarding the structure, governance, match-day arrangements, TV coverage, money distribution, etc. of the PRO12 ?

The only problem I have with the Pro12 is the situation we find ourselves in with the referees. But according to our Irish members on here I am not allowed to have an opinion on it, otherwise we get into internet fights where they start spouting nonsense and it is up to others to prove them wrong. Such is the state of this site nowadays.

marty2086 wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote: the vast majority agree there is no bias.

Says who?  

Anyone who thinks there is a 'vast' group of people out there who give a toss about the PrO'12 either way
is in no position to go talking about credibility.

of very great extent or quantity; immense.
"a vast plain full of orchards"

synonyms: huge, extensive, expansive, broad, wide, boundless, immeasurable, limitless, infinite, enormous, gigantic, very big, very large, great, giant, massive, colossal, mammoth, immense, tremendous, mighty, stupendous, monumental, epic, prodigious, mountainous, monstrous, titanic, towering, elephantine, king-sized, king-size, gargantuan, Herculean, Brobdingnagian; More

Does 1.2m fans through the turnstiles count as vast then? Not to mention those who watched on tv? The many employees of the club, league, unions, sponsors, production teams etc who rely on the league for jobs? What about the hundreds of players who play in the league? The thousands of young players who are hoping to play in it? Those numbers count as vast?

Seems some just want to be miserable and run things down regardless of reality because they are cantankerous

A bit like when you see the pile of BS MikeyDragon spouts and it looks massive.  But then you are confronted by the gargantuan, mammoth, huge, behemoth cesspit of effluent you come out with, and suddenly Ol' Mikey's 'contributions' look like a spec of bird poop on a windshield.

That the best you can come up with?

Yeah it is. He's just coming across as a stalkerish weirdo here, I think it's high time you set foot outside of Cross Keys stone.

LordDowlais wrote:

Irish Londoner wrote:Do any of the Scots on here feel like the Welsh (or at least many of the representative group we have on here) regarding the structure, governance, match-day arrangements, TV coverage, money distribution, etc. of the PRO12 ?

The only problem I have with the Pro12 is the situation we find ourselves in with the referees. But according to our Irish members on here I am not allowed to have an opinion on it, otherwise we get into internet fights where they start spouting nonsense and it is up to others to prove them wrong. Such is the state of this site nowadays.

You looking for bites, LD

Munchkin wrote:You looking for bites, LD

Nope. I am not, I promise.

I am just fed up of having an opinion, then having to get in a fight to win the internet with certain members all the time.

LordDowlais wrote:

Munchkin wrote:You looking for bites, LD

Nope. I am not, I promise.

I am just fed up of having an opinion, then having to get in a fight to win the internet with certain members all the time.

I wonder who that would be?

Its not like people claiming their opinions and conspiracy theories as fact then calling people stupid and arrogant when they.... you know.. present actual facts

Or say someone said one thing when they said another

Who was trying to win the internet there

marty2086 wrote:Or say someone said one thing when they said another

Marty, you said that in the UK judicial system, there are instances where the judge, solicitor, the person in the dock and the jury are all on the same payroll. Didn't you ? Now when you admit you said this, can you please tell me what you meant by it ?

And for the record, 7&1/2 is the worst for trying to be overly clever just to win the internet, as annoying as you can be at times, you are not at his level, in fact you are nowhere near his level.

wayne wrote:Just to add, the TMO for the game I quoted was somebody named Jude Quinn (never heard of him), there has been a TMO involved in a number of Welsh teams matches by the name of Aurwel Morgan he is from Glyneath and NEVER REFEREED a game in his life, he was a member of the committee of the WRU until very recently, there have been numerous complaints about Marshall Kilgore, the most recent of which was Scarlets against Ulster, Derek Bevan a former WC Referee has had numerous complaints about him by Welsh supporters, and you don't have to say anything about Scottish officiating, I have also read numerous times on here about the competency of referees like Fitzgibbon and Clancy by IRISH SUPPORTERS, there are more than likely MANY more that could be identified by ALL countries supporters on here.

 So what Ayani is doing is a step in the right direction, will it stop all doubts about the credibility of our League, NO, but for some it never will.

+1 - It's a step in the right direction, but most seem to agree that the standard of reffing in the Pro12 is poor (not sure it's much better in Eng or Fra) and very few Irish fans are happy with Fitzgibbon or Clancy. Problem is that between the four Pro12 countries only three - Owens, Lacey and Clancy (!) - ref at international level although I think that Mitrea - thought not without his faults - is as good as many on the panel of 12 that reffed last year's 6N. Being a ref is a tough and for a lot of the time a thankless task but it has to be a real concern that a country with a rugby tradition like Wales can only produce one elite ref in the shape of Owens while Scotland can't produce any at all.

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Or say someone said one thing when they said another

Marty, you said that in the UK judicial system, there are instances where the judge, solicitor, the person in the dock and the jury are all on the same payroll. Didn't you ? Now when you admit you said this, can you please tell me what you meant by it ?

And for the record, 7&1/2 is the worst for trying to be overly clever just to win the internet, as annoying as you can be at times, you are not at his level, in fact you are nowhere near his level.

That's not what I said

But what I meant is what I said, that the same department pays most if not all sides in some legal cases

It wasn't written in code

brennomac wrote:

wayne wrote:Just to add, the TMO for the game I quoted was somebody named Jude Quinn (never heard of him), there has been a TMO involved in a number of Welsh teams matches by the name of Aurwel Morgan he is from Glyneath and NEVER REFEREED a game in his life, he was a member of the committee of the WRU until very recently, there have been numerous complaints about Marshall Kilgore, the most recent of which was Scarlets against Ulster, Derek Bevan a former WC Referee has had numerous complaints about him by Welsh supporters, and you don't have to say anything about Scottish officiating, I have also read numerous times on here about the competency of referees like Fitzgibbon and Clancy by IRISH SUPPORTERS, there are more than likely MANY more that could be identified by ALL countries supporters on here.

 So what Ayani is doing is a step in the right direction, will it stop all doubts about the credibility of our League, NO, but for some it never will.

+1 - It's a step in the right direction, but most seem to agree that the standard of reffing in the Pro12 is poor (not sure it's much better in Eng or Fra) and very few Irish fans are happy with Fitzgibbon or Clancy.  Problem is that between the four Pro12 countries only three - Owens, Lacey and Clancy (!) - ref at international level although I think that Mitrea - thought not without his faults - is as good as many on the panel of 12 that reffed last year's 6N.   Being a ref is a tough and for a lot of the time a thankless task but it has to be a real concern that a country with a rugby tradition like Wales can only produce one elite ref in the shape of Owens while Scotland can't produce any at all.

Ben whatshisface is good - in my view.

Pot Hale wrote:Ben whatshisface is good - in my view

Ben Whitehouse. Yes, he is a very good up and coming ref.

Look, for me, nationality should not come into it. A ref is a ref, and you will always get calls of bias, no matter where the ref lives, or was born. If a ref is from Cardiff, then you might get Ospreys fans thinking he is biased against them, but he is still Welsh reffing two Welsh teams.

For me, it's all for about the reputation of the Pro12, when we have referees and teams all employed under the same banner, then it gives people leverage, rightly or wrongly, to question the credibility of the league. If Martin Anayi eventually achieves all his goals, then we will see a centrally contracted team of refs, employed by the Pro12, this in my opinion will be massive.

LordDowlais wrote: If Martin Anayi eventually achieves all his goals, then we will see a centrally contracted team of refs, employed by the Pro12, this in my opinion will be massive.

They'll all still have to belong and be employed by a Union. Which still renders it completely uneven as long as there are Union owned and run teams in the league. Unless of course the referees are not from Wal, Ire, Sco or Italy.

Dai Llewod wrote:

LordDowlais wrote: If Martin Anayi eventually achieves all his goals, then we will see a centrally contracted team of refs, employed by the Pro12, this in my opinion will be massive.

They'll all still have to belong and be employed by a Union. Which still renders it completely uneven as long as there are Union owned and run teams in the league. Unless of course the referees are not from Wal, Ire, Sco or Italy.

Hardly uneven when union paid players are part of the other teams

marty2086 wrote:That's not what I said

OK Marty, I did not want to do this, but here are our quotes from yesterday:-

LordDowlais wrote:It's not about bias though, come on, please. It is about the credibility. Would you be happy going to court against a person and a judge all on the same payroll ? I know that is impossible, but that is what the privately owned clubs in our league are up against.

marty2086 wrote:You mean like the barrister representing the crown, the judge and the legal aid barrister all being paid for by the same government department? Whistle

LordDowlais wrote:No. I mean, me paying you, and the judge, and the jury, to go up against somebody who is not part of my organisation. OK

marty2086 wrote:That's does happen Erm

Too complex for some though

LordDowlais wrote:I know it happens, in more shadier countries. But using that analogy, can you now see where I am coming from ? And how union and private run organisations go against each other ?

marty2086 wrote:No it happens in the UK

Judges and prosecution team paid by same department, now you see why we are telling you its in peoples heads

Now, please going on your replies, can you clarify what you mean ? If you can answer properly, and I see you have a point and are indeed correct, then I will concede.

LordDowlais wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:Ben whatshisface is good - in my view

Ben Whitehouse. Yes, he is a very good up and coming ref.

I agree that he's an up-and-coming ref...

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:That's not what I said

OK Marty, I did not want to do this, but here are our quotes from yesterday:-

LordDowlais wrote:It's not about bias though, come on, please. It is about the credibility. Would you be happy going to court against a person and a judge all on the same payroll ? I know that is impossible, but that is what the privately owned clubs in our league are up against.

marty2086 wrote:You mean like the barrister representing the crown, the judge and the legal aid barrister all being paid for by the same government department? Whistle

LordDowlais wrote:No. I mean, me paying you, and the judge, and the jury, to go up against somebody who is not part of my organisation. OK

marty2086 wrote:That's does happen Erm

Too complex for some though

LordDowlais wrote:I know it happens, in more shadier countries. But using that analogy, can you now see where I am coming from ? And how union and private run organisations go against each other ?

marty2086 wrote:No it happens in the UK

Judges and prosecution team paid by same department, now you see why we are telling you its in peoples heads

Now, please going on your replies, can you clarify what you mean ? If you can answer properly, and I see you have a point and are indeed correct, then I will concede.

I have but you keep asking

If you can't grasp it then that's on you but Im not going through it anymore

marty2086 wrote:I have but you keep asking

No you have not, you just told me it happens, and that's it. If you do not want to answer then fine. It shows more about you than anything else.

marty2086 wrote:If you can't grasp it then that's on you but Im not going through it anymore

Grasp what ? Going by your reply's you are suggesting that the UK judicial system is corrupt. If that is not what your implying, then you need to explain.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I agree that he's an up-and-coming ref...

Now, Now, LP. Most members on here do not know you. I know what you are getting at, stop being naughty.

Dai Llewod wrote:

LordDowlais wrote: If Martin Anayi eventually achieves all his goals, then we will see a centrally contracted team of refs, employed by the Pro12, this in my opinion will be massive.

They'll all still have to belong and be employed by a Union. Which still renders it completely uneven as long as there are Union owned and run teams in the league. Unless of course the referees are not from Wal, Ire, Sco or Italy.

Your problem, and the problem with some of those of NuGwlad, is that you're against Unions, and no matter how much change is brought about you will always oppose Union owned teams.

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:I have but you keep asking

No you have not, you just told me it happens, and that's it. If you do not want to answer then fine. It shows more about you than anything else.

marty2086 wrote:If you can't grasp it then that's on you but Im not going through it anymore

Grasp what ? Going by your reply's you are suggesting that the UK judicial system is corrupt. If that is not what your implying, then you need to explain.

I never suggested that, in fact I flatly denied it

Read back and take a deep breath then allow your brain to function

OK Marty, for your sake, we should leave this.

marty2086 wrote: the problem with some of those of NuGwlad

What's a "NuGwlad" ?

LordDowlais wrote:OK Marty, for your sake, we should leave this.

Some light reading for those unable to use google

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10135885/Legal-aid-cuts-will-collapse-the-edifice-of-the-justice-system.html


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/12102464/High-Court-judges-get-inflation-busting-3-pay-rise.html

Maybe you should have left it for your sake

Now, apology?

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote: the problem with some of those of NuGwlad

What's a "NuGwlad" ?

It's the new site set up because Gwlad is closing down soon. They have all moved over there now, and it's free.