China Open / Shanghai Masters

First topic message reminder :

Is anyone watching any Tennis?

Anyway this is turning into a half decent tournament although the usual suspects are generally providing the entertainment

We're at the QF stage, where both Edmund and Zverev have just been beaten - but showed enough to remind us that they could be genuine slam contenders in a few years

Be interesting to see how Rafa competes as he'll have to beat Dimi, probably Raonic and probably Murray to win the event - so if he does, then as some of us suspect there may be a good 2017 for him

Today (Friday) the Rafa / Dimi clash looks to be worth watching, it won't start before 1430hrs our time

Update!!!

We've now moved on to the penultimate Masters of the year, with both Novak and Andy actually at the same event!!

Great point!

Andy finding things to upset him. Looks very nervous. Wastes three set points and it's 5-5.

Impressive - after the clowning around at *5-4 saw him go 5-6 down, Murray came out eerily calm and won 11 of 12 points to take the set.

That was Murray's 19th consecutive set win. Later set he dropped was in Cincinatti Masters Final.

I like the way you've put the Nishikori and DP defeats out of your mind Craig ;-)! It's actually 22 I think - Pella in DC as well.

He is having a general shocker in this match though. It feels a bit like the Nishikori match where he may manage to let nerves and small issues distract him from an easy win.

Defeats come and defeats go just as wins come and wins go. Enjoy the moment is my philosophy just now.

CaledonianCraig wrote:Defeats come and defeats go just as wins come and wins go. Enjoy the moment is my philosophy just now.

Well yes - my point was though that both those matches were after Cincy. The last set he dropped was to Porto in the DC.

For all his nerves in this match, it's good that he has kept going for the second serve. Hopefully can grab another break here.

Ah right sorry got my schedule mixed up.

Easy in the end. Only really started to look like the real Murray in the last couple of games but too good for RBA generally.

According to the BBC Murray is only 915 points behind Djokovic. Seems incredible how quickly things have turned around.

Nore Staat wrote:According to the BBC Murray is only 915 points behind Djokovic.  Seems incredible how quickly things have turned around.

That's on the race I think. In actual terms he's a bit further behind, but at this stage in the year the race is what counts. Basically if Murray earns 920 points more than Djokovic between now and the end of the season he'll be number one then.

Nore Staat wrote:According to the BBC Murray is only 915 points behind Djokovic. Seems incredible how quickly things have turned around.

That's in the race. He is still 2,500 points behind overall due to Novak's Paris and WTF points.

I think someone said the WTF points from last year come off the rankings soon so Novak will lose 1500 points so perhaps that is why sources say 915 point lead.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:

Nore Staat wrote:According to the BBC Murray is only 915 points behind Djokovic.  Seems incredible how quickly things have turned around.

That's on the race I think. In actual terms he's a bit further behind, but at this stage in the year the race is what counts. Basically if Murray earns 920 points more than Djokovic between now and the end of the season he'll be number one then.

It's a little more complicated this year. Andy has 275 points in his "race" total from the Davis Cup final. No idea why they are in this year's race points as they drop at end November. A very brief summary is:

- To be number 1 after Paris - Andy needs to outscore Novak by 915 points - i.e win Vienna and Paris without Novak making the final (or lesser results if Novak bombs out early).

- To be number 1 after WTF - same criteria as above but obviously including WTF results!

- To be number 1 at start Dec - outscore Novak by more than 1,290 points.

I think, though I'm not absolutely sure about this, that year end ranking is assessed after the WTF. We could therefore have the odd situation that Andy is YE1 officially but not actually number 1 as at 31 Dec!

Worth noting, with former ranking points for Olympics and DC, the race gap would be 100 points.

Born Slippy wrote:

Mad for Chelsea wrote:

Nore Staat wrote:According to the BBC Murray is only 915 points behind Djokovic.  Seems incredible how quickly things have turned around.

That's on the race I think. In actual terms he's a bit further behind, but at this stage in the year the race is what counts. Basically if Murray earns 920 points more than Djokovic between now and the end of the season he'll be number one then.

It's a little more complicated this year. Andy has 275 points in his "race" total from the Davis Cup final. No idea why they are in this year's race points as they drop at end November. A very brief summary is:

- To be number 1 after Paris - Andy needs to outscore Novak by 915 points - i.e win Vienna and Paris without Novak making the final (or lesser results if Novak bombs out early).

- To be number 1 after WTF - same criteria as above but obviously including WTF results!

- To be number 1 at start Dec - outscore Novak by more than 1,290 points.

I think, though I'm not absolutely sure about this, that year end ranking is assessed after the WTF. We could therefore have the odd situation that Andy is YE1 officially but not actually number 1 as at 31 Dec!

I didn't realise DC points count towards the following year's race, does seem a bit odd! Though I think your arithmetic is a little faulty, as 915+275=1190 (and not 1290). This makes it harder for Murray. I genuinely felt he could score 900 points more than Djokovic until the end of the season (especially given he's down for Vienna and Djokovic isn't), but 1200 seems difficult. Obviously there's a real opportunity in the first few months of next year even if he can't get it by the end of this one, and also he could have n°1 by Paris or the WTF only to drop it a few weeks later when the DC points fall off.

Also, a good point that with DC and Olympic points same as previous years the two would be virtually level!

I have not seen any tennis since the USO but even so I have found this race for #1 pretty exciting. Who would have thought, going into Wimbledon, that a few months later Novak would be in a dogfight for #1 spot.

Ah yes, thanks MfC - I'm making it 100 points harder. 1190 points is correct! A simple assessment is that if Andy wins every match from now to the end of the season (or loses one RR match at WTF) then he is number 1 regardless of Novak's results (as that's a minimum 1,200 point gain). However, that's easier said than done on courts that don't suit him and with likely fatigue.

I think it's unlikely. The real Q is whether he can keep within 1,000 points or so by year end. If so, number 1 will be very much live in Oz and potentially outside Novak's control by IW/Miami.

I am still surprised how far Delpo can get without having a backhand.

Delpo wins. Dimi seems to be settling to a long term role as a top 20-30 type of player. Shame.