England vs Australia

First topic message reminder :

Billy out for 3-4 months.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Speaking of which it'll be Slade covering full back by the looks of it, or possibly May?

Must be Slade. You could have a situation where Slade or Te'o come into the center - Joseph goes to the wing and May to FB but I can't really see it happening.

Hasn't May played full back quite a few times for Gloucester

Just seems to make sense to use Slade, minimise the disruption on the backline in the event of a Brown injury

The telegraph has a gallery of a combined '03 and '16 team. Brown (for aggression. See - some people like it), Joseph, Mako, Hartley (just) and Itoje make the cut; honourable mentions for Ford, Farrell, Youngs, Cole, Robshaw and Billy.

My view would be that's about right (though Itoje and Johnson would not work as a lineout pairing) and I'd pick Funbus over both Woodman and Mako.

Be interesting to see what this would look like in a year's time. Maintain the progress they've made so far and I can see many more close decisions. Greenwood, Hill, Back, Dawson and Johnson are probably most secure in their positions.

May can cover FB, played there numerous times. He's got a poop kicking game but he could do a job for 10/15mins.

Poorfour wrote:The telegraph has a gallery of a combined '03 and '16 team. Brown (for aggression. See - some people like it), Joseph, Mako, Hartley (just) and Itoje make the cut; honourable mentions for Ford, Farrell, Youngs, Cole, Robshaw and Billy.

My view would be that's about right (though Itoje and Johnson would not work as a lineout pairing) and I'd pick Funbus over both Woodman and Mako.

Be interesting to see what this would look like in a year's time. Maintain the progress they've made so far and I can see many more close decisions. Greenwood, Hill, Back, Dawson and Johnson are probably most secure in their positions.

Brown over Lewsey

JJ would probably just edge Tindall but Tinds was a fine player back then. Hartley would be close, but other than that I wouldn't have any of this side over 2003!

BamBam wrote:

Poorfour wrote:The telegraph has a gallery of a combined '03 and '16 team. Brown (for aggression. See - some people like it), Joseph, Mako, Hartley (just) and Itoje make the cut; honourable mentions for Ford, Farrell, Youngs, Cole, Robshaw and Billy.

My view would be that's about right (though Itoje and Johnson would not work as a lineout pairing) and I'd pick Funbus over both Woodman and Mako.

Be interesting to see what this would look like in a year's time. Maintain the progress they've made so far and I can see many more close decisions. Greenwood, Hill, Back, Dawson and Johnson are probably most secure in their positions.

Brown over Lewsey

JJ would probably just edge Tindall but Tinds was a fine player back then. Hartley would be close, but other than that I wouldn't have any of this side over 2003!

Not yet...

It is a different era. The whole 2003 team was a bit special but then sometimes the ratings of the players follows the achievements rather than preceeding them. Tindall was limited but very good within those limitations. JJ is a much more rounded player but without the bulk

I think JJ is becoming a top class player.

BamBam wrote:

Poorfour wrote:The telegraph has a gallery of a combined '03 and '16 team. Brown (for aggression. See - some people like it), Joseph, Mako, Hartley (just) and Itoje make the cut; honourable mentions for Ford, Farrell, Youngs, Cole, Robshaw and Billy.

My view would be that's about right (though Itoje and Johnson would not work as a lineout pairing) and I'd pick Funbus over both Woodman and Mako.

Be interesting to see what this would look like in a year's time. Maintain the progress they've made so far and I can see many more close decisions. Greenwood, Hill, Back, Dawson and Johnson are probably most secure in their positions.

Brown over Lewsey

JJ would probably just edge Tindall but Tinds was a fine player back then. Hartley would be close, but other than that I wouldn't have any of this side over 2003!

Agree with that, Joseph is the only one I would possibly have in the 03 team, Brown over Lewsey is just a no, it helped that he and Robinson could cover each other something Brown can't do. The pack would exactly as it is, not even sure that Mako would be a bench option back then.

Two Aussie Coaches sledging each other PRICELESS
GO England

RE Telegraph surprised Phil Vickery gets the nod, thought he had retired.

And regards Eddie, he is fast turning into the gobby chump that Gatland used to insist on playing.

The bookies are giving England a 9 point advantage - seems quite generous as I think this could be quite a close game. Missing Billy and Launchbury leaves England a bit underpowered for me - I just can't see England running away with it. Mako is a liability at scrum time and it just takes the referee to take against him for Australia to get a big advantage . So put my money where my mouth is a bet on Australia to keep within 9 points, but hope England win by 4 or 5.

I be thinking not many of the current Aussie squad would get into their 2003 squad. Even fewer of the team England are playing on Saturday.

doctor_grey wrote:I be thinking not many of the current Aussie squad would get into their 2003 squad.  Even fewer of the team England are playing on Saturday.  

Interesting idea:

15-Israel Folau, 14-Dane Haylett-Petty, 13-Tevita Kuridrani, 12-Reece Hodge, 11-Sefa Naivalu, 10-Bernard Foley, 9-Nick Phipps; 1-Scott Sio, 2-Stephen Moore (capt), 3-Sekope Kepu, 4-Kane Douglas, 5-Rob Simmons, 6-David Pocock, 7-Michael Hooper, 8-Lopeti Timani
Replacements: 16-Tolu Latu, 17-James Slipper, 18-Tom Robertson, 19-Dean Mumm, 20-Sean McMahon, 21-Nick Frisby, 22-Quade Cooper, 23-Henry Speight

VS

FB	15	Mat Rogers
RW	14	Wendell Sailor		71'
OC	13	Stirling Mortlock
IC	12	Elton Flatley
LW	11	Lote Tuqiri
FH	10	Stephen Larkham		temp'
SH	9	George Gregan (c)
N8	8	David Lyons		57'
OF	7	Phil Waugh
BF	6	George Smith
RL	5	Nathan Sharpe		48'
LL	4	Justin Harrison
TP	3	Al Baxter
HK	2	Brendan Cannon		57 '
LP	1	Bill Young		92'
Replacements:
HK	16	Jeremy Paul		57'
PR	17	Matt Dunning		92'
LK	18	David Giffin		48'
N8	19	Matt Cockbain		57'
SH	20	Chris Whitaker
FH	21	Matt Giteau		temp'
WG	22	Joe Roff

I'd personally pick:

15- Folau
14- DHP
13- Mortlock
12- Flatley (I'd probably actually consider Mortlock and Kurudrani as the centres overall)
11- Tuqiri
10-Larkham
9- Gregan
8- Lyons
7- Pocock
6- Smith
5- Sharpe
4- Harrison
3- Kepu
2- Moore
1- Young

Subs- the props are all not exactly great choices, Slipper by almost default! Paul, Giffin, McMahon, Whitakker, Giteau, Roff

Actually, right now Baxter over Kepu probably

nlpnlp wrote:The bookies are giving England a 9 point advantage - seems quite generous as I think this could be quite a close game.  Missing Billy and Launchbury leaves England a bit underpowered for me - I just can't see England running away with it.  Mako is a liability at scrum time and it just takes the referee to take against him for Australia to get a big advantage .  So put my money where my mouth is a bet on Australia to keep within 9 points, but hope England win by 4 or 5.

I am not so sure it is generous to be honest. This is an England side in great form with that winning momentum. To me, they are currently the best side in the world. I would say they would beat the All Blacks right now. They will see off the Aussies easily today.

England need to win this game for two reasons. 1 to keep their unbeaten record for 2016. 2 to prove the white was in the summer was because they are the better team.

Australia need to win this game to restore some pride for the loss in the summer, and to get revenge for the humiiliation the felt.


It will be a tough game that's for sure. Score line????????? England by 10 i hope.

COME ON ENGLAND.

eirebilly wrote:

nlpnlp wrote:The bookies are giving England a 9 point advantage - seems quite generous as I think this could be quite a close game.  Missing Billy and Launchbury leaves England a bit underpowered for me - I just can't see England running away with it.  Mako is a liability at scrum time and it just takes the referee to take against him for Australia to get a big advantage .  So put my money where my mouth is a bet on Australia to keep within 9 points, but hope England win by 4 or 5.

I am not so sure it is generous to be honest. This is an England side in great form with that winning momentum. To me, they are currently the best side in the world. I would say they would beat the All Blacks right now. They will see off the Aussies easily today.

I wish I shared your confidence, but if England do win they certainly have a claim to be worthy rivals to the All Blacks. An unbeaten year would be a huge achievement, especially given where they started from.

If we weren't missing Billy, Joe and Maro I'd be more confident ...

ChequeredJersey wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:I be thinking not many of the current Aussie squad would get into their 2003 squad.  Even fewer of the team England are playing on Saturday.  

Interesting idea:

15-Israel Folau, 14-Dane Haylett-Petty, 13-Tevita Kuridrani, 12-Reece Hodge, 11-Sefa Naivalu, 10-Bernard Foley, 9-Nick Phipps; 1-Scott Sio, 2-Stephen Moore (capt), 3-Sekope Kepu, 4-Kane Douglas, 5-Rob Simmons, 6-David Pocock, 7-Michael Hooper, 8-Lopeti Timani
Replacements: 16-Tolu Latu, 17-James Slipper, 18-Tom Robertson, 19-Dean Mumm, 20-Sean McMahon, 21-Nick Frisby, 22-Quade Cooper, 23-Henry Speight
VS

FB	15	Mat Rogers
RW	14	Wendell Sailor		71'
OC	13	Stirling Mortlock
IC	12	Elton Flatley
LW	11	Lote Tuqiri
FH	10	Stephen Larkham		temp'
SH	9	George Gregan (c)
N8	8	David Lyons		57'
OF	7	Phil Waugh
BF	6	George Smith
RL	5	Nathan Sharpe		48'
LL	4	Justin Harrison
TP	3	Al Baxter
HK	2	Brendan Cannon		57 '
LP	1	Bill Young		92'
Replacements:
HK	16	Jeremy Paul		57'
PR	17	Matt Dunning		92'
LK	18	David Giffin		48'
N8	19	Matt Cockbain		57'
SH	20	Chris Whitaker
FH	21	Matt Giteau		temp'
WG	22	Joe Roff

I'd personally pick:

15- Folau
14- DHP
13- Mortlock
12- Flatley (I'd probably actually consider Mortlock and Kurudrani as the centres overall)
11- Tuqiri
10-Larkham
9- Gregan
8- Lyons
7- Pocock
6- Smith
5- Sharpe
4- Harrison
3- Kepu
2- Moore
1- Young

Subs- the props are all not exactly great choices, Slipper by almost default! Paul, Giffin, McMahon, Whitakker, Giteau, Roff

Glad you pulled this up.  It was getting late when the thought hit me.  I do remember that Wallabies team because the core of that team were Brumbies who won the Super 12 the very next season (I was in Canberra when they beat Cursaders with that huge scoreline).  

I agree with your choices 100%.  Interesting we came to the same conclusions, not many current Wallabies could crack that old team.  Most of their props were mush, but they still - somehow(!) - got scrum penalties against England in that final.  The Wallabies had Flately as the kicker so he had to stay at 12.

Weird tidbit about that 2003 Wallabies team:  The back three were all League converts.  All three went back to League some time afterwards.  All three ended up with some legal trouble.  I Think Tuqiri played a short bit with Leicester at one point (or was it Leinster?).

eirebilly wrote:

nlpnlp wrote:The bookies are giving England a 9 point advantage - seems quite generous as I think this could be quite a close game.  Missing Billy and Launchbury leaves England a bit underpowered for me - I just can't see England running away with it.  Mako is a liability at scrum time and it just takes the referee to take against him for Australia to get a big advantage .  So put my money where my mouth is a bet on Australia to keep within 9 points, but hope England win by 4 or 5.

I am not so sure it is generous to be honest. This is an England side in great form with that winning momentum. To me, they are currently the best side in the world. I would say they would beat the All Blacks right now. They will see off the Aussies easily today.

They might beat the AB's if the AB's performed at the level they did, say, in France. But AB's playing as well as they can do - that is another question entirely.

It is true that England haven't truly been tested this Autumn. The SA game was done by half time. Fiji was just - Fiji.... Argentina was good because of the stress of playing a man down, but other than that short period around half time (when we were down to 13) we were never actually really under any threat. Maybe it is a reflection on how far (and how fast) we have moved on from the RWC.

lostinwales wrote:
They might beat the AB's if the AB's performed at the level they did, say, in France. But AB's playing as well as they can do - that is another question entirely.

I honestly think they would beat the AB's even with the AB's playing their best. England just look incredibly balanced and strong under Jones.

They have beaten the Aussies 3-0 in their own patch and I think that in England, they will cruise to victory

But isn't part of the skill of rugby to stop your opponents playing at their best level?

:

Poorfour wrote:But isn't part of the skill of rugby to stop your opponents playing at their best level?

Funny how many of these teams we have played over the last year havn't been at their best....

eirebilly wrote:

lostinwales wrote:
They might beat the AB's if the AB's performed at the level they did, say, in France. But AB's playing as well as they can do - that is another question entirely.

I honestly think they would beat the AB's even with the AB's playing their best. England just look incredibly balanced and strong under Jones.

They have beaten the Aussies 3-0 in their own patch and I think that in England, they will cruise to victory

Billy, I am hoping so. Would end the International season on a good note.

Even if England lose, it has been a great year on the heels of 'the year that wasn't - 2015'. But t is always better to end a season with a win. Wallabies can virtually erase a poor year with the win, and will come out aggressive. England can put the season down as redemption and a mind-erase for 2015 with the win. And feel completely confident going into next year.

doc, I have never been more certain of a victory for England over the Aussies as I am today. That series whitewash gave this team the belief that they can beat anyone.

Its a shame that they did not play the AB's these AI's, would have been a great competition against the best two teams in the world.

My only concern is that without Billy and Hask we may struggle getting good quick front foot ball and not be able to slow theirs down as effectively.

We shall see though

Australia by 7 then

hmmmm, thought that was a knock on by Phipps

Yeah I thought knock on. Foley can't kick.

With this idiot reffing don't expect him to get much right

My god. That is a let off.

ANd tht was easy by Australia

Jeez the Aussies are up for this!!!

What a shambles.....Hartley missed hook, Mako collapsing

Big turnover there by Chris Robshaw.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:What a shambles.....Hartley missed hook, Mako collapsing

Tom youngs eh ;P

Yarde is having a mare out there. Should not have given up and forced the Aussie to touch down in the corner and then sucked in easily for the Aussie break.

Oz 6 detached early mind and kicked the ball back - not sure that was entirely legal

England still in the changing room. Shocking..

Yarde is not having a mare? Hes made his tackles hasn't he?

Inside pass to Hooper was miles forwards too ..

GeordieFalcon wrote:Yarde is not having a mare? Hes made his tackles hasn't he?

Explained above in my first post why I believe he is having a mare.

nathan wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:What a shambles.....Hartley missed hook, Mako collapsing

Tom youngs eh ;P

Like Youngs with his great basics would help lol

Mako is getting absolutley smashed

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

nathan wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:What a shambles.....Hartley missed hook, Mako collapsing

Tom youngs eh ;P

Like Youngs with his great basics would help lol

Mako is getting absolutley smashed

His basics have been pretty good this season

Well this is an England thread, cant see what Youngs has to do it.

Yarde another missed tackle, jeez that Aus 11 is quick

England looking like Wales in defense, just standing back, awful so far

Much better from England now. They look to have settled into the game.

Australia are winning all the collisions...just like we won them in the summer.

It makjes a big difference.

Farrell has had a poor series....