Most perfectly rated current international player.

by wolfball Thu 01 Dec 2016, 3:39 pm

So, most players are under rated or over rated and that debate usually depends what country the fan and player is from. I am more fascinated by players that everyone regards as well rated by anyone. Now that rating might be low (every fan knows he is terrible) or might be high (every fan knows he's the best in the world (Mccaw at peak)) but which players would you say are currently perfectly rated?

I think heaslip is an example of a current perfectly rated player, with few if any over rating him, and after his great 2016 few underrating him...

by No 7&1/2 Thu 01 Dec 2016, 3:55 pm

Hard to say for England. Probably Joseph and Watson.

by SecretFly Thu 01 Dec 2016, 4:00 pm

by SecretFly Thu 01 Dec 2016, 4:00 pm

Hartley

by RuggerRadge2611 Thu 01 Dec 2016, 4:03 pm

Hogg.

Widely recognized as one of the most lethal and potent attacking threats in the world from full back but can be a bit wobbly in defence.

by SecretFly Thu 01 Dec 2016, 4:03 pm

Faletau,

Hooper,

Quade Cooper - everybody knows he's a genius in that everything he has is all natural gut instinct - and everyone knows he's as mad as a sack of hungry cats.

by lostinwales Thu 01 Dec 2016, 4:06 pm

I still think Joseph is underrated. I don't think 13 is a strength in NH rugby. JD2 hasn't really kicked on from his early promise. Payne is good but arguably a better 15. Jones and Bennett promising for Scotland but not yet the full package. And then there is Joseph - who is - and yet he's not often sneaking into popular choices for Lions center.

by SecretFly Thu 01 Dec 2016, 4:09 pm

Ringrose, if he gets genuine time there, will certainly reshuffle the idea of 13 in Ireland again. Payne is a different version of a 13 but Ringrose has a sniff of BOD.

by Mad for Chelsea Thu 01 Dec 2016, 4:17 pm

Love Ringrose, bags of potential. For me Payne's always looked more comfortable at 15, but I understand he brings a lot to the side at 13 too, also in terms of defensive organisation.

In terms of the thread, does Duncan Weir count? Everyone knows he's gash...

by SecretFly Thu 01 Dec 2016, 4:27 pm

Weir used to have a tremendous boot, kicking points from far far out. Haven't really had a look at him closely enough in recent times. Can he still do that? I thought he'd become quite good so disappointed in a way that he seems to have found his limit quickly Whistle

by Geordie Thu 01 Dec 2016, 4:31 pm

Johnny May - Flanker, certainty for the lions!

by **rodders** Thu 01 Dec 2016, 5:21 pm

Josh Van der Flier.

Not rated too high, not rated too low, just bang on the money.

by GunsGermsV2 Thu 01 Dec 2016, 5:37 pm

Alex Goode - (crap and everyone knows it)

by wolfball Thu 01 Dec 2016, 5:45 pm

lostinwales wrote:I still think Joseph is underrated. I don't think 13 is a strength in NH rugby. JD2 hasn't really kicked on from his early promise. Payne is good but arguably a better 15. Jones and Bennett promising for Scotland but not yet the full package. And then there is Joseph - who is - and yet he's not often sneaking into popular choices for Lions center.

Agree, i think he is underrated. A fantastic player and I would have him start for the lions.

by GunsGermsV2 Thu 01 Dec 2016, 5:48 pm

I would too

by Maine man Thu 01 Dec 2016, 6:13 pm

Robshaw. Underrated by Eddie Jones before he took over now Eddie rates him.

by SecretFly Thu 01 Dec 2016, 6:25 pm

Maine man wrote:Robshaw. Underrated by Eddie Jones before he took over now Eddie rates him.

Eddie was always wrong. Eddie was an ass when he first came in and decided one of his most honest players was up for a morale take down.

by SecretFly Thu 01 Dec 2016, 6:27 pm

Incidently, good fresh approach take on an often repeated thread, wolf

by king_carlos Thu 01 Dec 2016, 7:10 pm

Launchbury is a guy who always seems similarly rated by fans from various countries when you talk to them. Widely regarded as an excellent player who could keep getting better.

Similar for Jonny Gray and Iain Henderson in the same position.

by thebandwagonsociety Thu 01 Dec 2016, 8:57 pm

king_carlos wrote:Launchbury is a guy who always seems similarly rated by fans from various countries when you talk to them. Widely regarded as an excellent player who could keep getting better.

Similar for Jonny Gray and Iain Henderson in the same position.

Good shouts all of them. Locks aren't the glamour players usually and these are a similar mold. They are the kinds of players that you only notice when they aren't playing and are left thinking 'something was missing from our pack today'.

Lawes and Itoje get the glamour and rave reviews, but their really just oversized flankers ;-) And flankers get the journo love.

by Guest Thu 01 Dec 2016, 9:14 pm

This is actually much harder than I thought! Good thread. Each Welsh player I think of has both fans and detractors.

So....... Ummmm.......

No, I'm stumped Sad

by wolfball Thu 01 Dec 2016, 9:15 pm

SecretFly wrote:Incidently, good fresh approach take on an often repeated thread, wolf

Ha cheers, though can't claim it as original, someone had a post on the most perfectly rated bands in music a few years ago that came into my head, and i wondered what the equivalent in rugby might be thumbsup

by wolfball Thu 01 Dec 2016, 9:19 pm

Launchbury is the best one for me listed so far as properly rated.

I think Barret is also a good shout as def not under rated and arguably impossible to over-rate after his last 12 months.

I also think past players like John Hayes were so often spoken as being under-rated there was a brief point where he was perfectly rated, before he then became over rated.

I can't think of any welsh player that fits the bill, they all seem over or under rated to me.

by SecretFly Thu 01 Dec 2016, 9:25 pm

Griff wrote:This is actually much harder than I thought! Good thread. Each Welsh player I think of has both fans and detractors.

So....... Ummmm.......

No, I'm stumped

I named one, damn it! Faletau! And I think AWJ has a balanced reputation too - nobody says he's the second coming but everyone respects his grit, heart and ability

by Guest Thu 01 Dec 2016, 9:54 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Griff wrote:This is actually much harder than I thought! Good thread. Each Welsh player I think of has both fans and detractors.

So....... Ummmm.......

No, I'm stumped

I named one, damn it! Faletau! And I think AWJ has a balanced reputation too - nobody says he's the second coming but everyone respects his grit, heart and ability

AWJ?! He's completely marmite! He's either on the plane to NZ with the Lions, some even say captain, or he's washing boots back in Swansea!

Faletau, yes I think most people would say he's pretty solid and good without being awesome (to be honest I've actually called him overrated on the past! And that was while he was still at the Dragons).

by SecretFly Thu 01 Dec 2016, 10:46 pm

Griff wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Griff wrote:This is actually much harder than I thought! Good thread. Each Welsh player I think of has both fans and detractors.

So....... Ummmm.......

No, I'm stumped

I named one, damn it! Faletau! And I think AWJ has a balanced reputation too - nobody says he's the second coming but everyone respects his grit, heart and ability

AWJ?! He's completely marmite!

He's marmite to idiots who don't have a clue. Oh sorry for offending any 606ers! Yous are of course all experts innit. We're the brainiest rugby guys on the block. But if yis think AWJ is an eejit then..... well, even experts can be fools. Run

by bsando Thu 01 Dec 2016, 10:54 pm

Conor Murray - My starting 9 for Lions and an excellent all round player

by SecretFly Thu 01 Dec 2016, 11:05 pm

Just goes to show you that we don't all necessarily champion all of our own. I've been hot, luke-warm and cold on Murray all his professional career to date. It continued even to this AI season. One game sublime, another game much too casual.

by king_carlos Thu 01 Dec 2016, 11:39 pm

I know the post is 'current international player' but thinking of days gone by I can't come up with a more universally rated player than Marty Holah.

Pretty much anyone you heard speak about him would say the exact same things. Fantastic player, proper openside but so unlucky to be an All Black in the same era as McCaw.

by Gwlad Fri 02 Dec 2016, 12:44 am

Faletau, Murray and Hogg are standouts

by Gooseberry Fri 02 Dec 2016, 10:00 am

Phil Vickery

by beshocked Fri 02 Dec 2016, 10:12 am

I would say Hogg is a bit overrated. Good player sure but lacks control at times and doesn't get criticised for his flaws. Compare that to Mr Angry - Mike Brown.

Disagree about Heaslip. Shouldn't have been nominated for world player of the year - overrated 2016 form.

The Irish IMO have got a bit overexcited because of the win over NZ. Great win sure but need to maintain consistency. The disappointing RWC performance, 6 nations and a tour of a mediocre SA team have been extinguished from the memory.

Everything is right in the world because of that 1 win.

Murray and Launchbury are probably right though.

by SecretFly Fri 02 Dec 2016, 12:59 pm

beshocked wrote:I would say Hogg is a bit overrated. Good player sure but lacks control at times and doesn't get criticised for his flaws. Compare that to Mr Angry - Mike Brown.

Disagree about Heaslip. Shouldn't have been nominated for world player of the year - overrated 2016 form.

The Irish IMO have got a bit overexcited because of the win over NZ. Great win sure but need to maintain consistency. The disappointing RWC performance, 6 nations and a tour of a mediocre SA team have been extinguished from the memory.

Everything is right in the world because of that 1 win.

Murray and Launchbury are probably right though.

Ouch! It's pointed how much Ireland all of a sudden has come under the cross-hairs of English commentators. That's nice. Just like the ABs themselves, it's nice to be noticed for a change rather than ignored - given we've been in 2nd place earlier in recent years than England have managed it with their unlimited supply of science, infrastructure and player base.
It's nice to think we're beginning to become important enough again to be getting some lovely negative propaganda driven our way. I'm sure Jones will really get that party going come January or so. You'll of course be with him in the trenches, slinging the juicy mudshots Smile

by **rodders** Fri 02 Dec 2016, 1:38 pm

beshocked wrote:
The Irish IMO have got a bit overexcited because of the win over NZ. Great win sure but need to maintain consistency. The disappointing RWC performance, 6 nations and a tour of a mediocre SA team have been extinguished from the memory.

Everything is right in the world because of that 1 win.

2 wins, we put Canada to the sword too.

by lostinwales Fri 02 Dec 2016, 2:07 pm

Re: wins over AB's. England did it. We thought we were world beaters for a few minutes. Didn't work out.

Just saying.....

by SecretFly Fri 02 Dec 2016, 2:14 pm

lostinwales wrote:Re: wins over AB's. England did it. We thought we were world beaters for a few minutes. Didn't work out.

Just saying.....

Em...., the thing is we already know we're not world beaters..... as we got a quick resetting of the old order a few weeks ago, when the ABs beat us (up Cool

) again. Who exactly is telling us something we don't already know?

We're 4th. We'd like to be 3rd, 2nd or even 1st. Wink

We'll keep trying. But apologies again to those people who seem to think it offensive to have the same dreams as Jones and his boys. We most humbly beg beshocked's pardon.

by funnyExiledScot Fri 02 Dec 2016, 2:18 pm

Gooseberry wrote:Phil Vickery

Good call. We'll miss him when he retires.

by Guest Fri 02 Dec 2016, 2:25 pm

Yeah SecretFly, Ireland don't want to be number 1 like England do. It's like just different.

by Bind up Fri 02 Dec 2016, 2:27 pm

Thierry Dusautoir

by R!skysports Fri 02 Dec 2016, 2:34 pm

SecretFly wrote:
beshocked wrote:I would say Hogg is a bit overrated. Good player sure but lacks control at times and doesn't get criticised for his flaws. Compare that to Mr Angry - Mike Brown.

Disagree about Heaslip. Shouldn't have been nominated for world player of the year - overrated 2016 form.

The Irish IMO have got a bit overexcited because of the win over NZ. Great win sure but need to maintain consistency. The disappointing RWC performance, 6 nations and a tour of a mediocre SA team have been extinguished from the memory.

Everything is right in the world because of that 1 win.

Murray and Launchbury are probably right though.

Ouch! It's pointed how much Ireland all of a sudden has come under the cross-hairs of English commentators. That's nice. Just like the ABs themselves, it's nice to be noticed for a change rather than ignored - given we've been in 2nd place earlier in recent years than England have managed it with their unlimited supply of science, infrastructure and player base.
It's nice to think we're beginning to become important enough again to be getting some lovely negative propaganda driven our way. I'm sure Jones will really get that party going come January or so. You'll of course be with him in the trenches, slinging the juicy mudshots

I think you will find he get massive criticism - repeatedly

by GunsGermsV2 Fri 02 Dec 2016, 2:37 pm

beshocked wrote:I would say Hogg is a bit overrated. Good player sure but lacks control at times and doesn't get criticised for his flaws. Compare that to Mr Angry - Mike Brown.

Disagree about Heaslip. Shouldn't have been nominated for world player of the year - overrated 2016 form.

The Irish IMO have got a bit overexcited because of the win over NZ. Great win sure but need to maintain consistency. The disappointing RWC performance, 6 nations and a tour of a mediocre SA team have been extinguished from the memory.

Everything is right in the world because of that 1 win.

Murray and Launchbury are probably right though.

Id say the English are building themselves up for a fall again as usual. I reckon it will be fairly spectacular when it happens particularly because Eddie Jones is such a motor mouth. He is certainly priming himself to be the stand out fall guy.

by No 7&1/2 Fri 02 Dec 2016, 2:47 pm

What would you see as a fall?

by GunsGermsV2 Fri 02 Dec 2016, 2:49 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:What would you see as a fall?

Losing to Italy or Scotland.

It has to happen at some stage.
Or finishing 3rd or below in the 6 nations.

by No 7&1/2 Fri 02 Dec 2016, 2:51 pm

Not for a while at the moment. But yes that will happen one day.

by Cyril Fri 02 Dec 2016, 2:54 pm

Guns has basically said that England will have a period when they're not doing as well as now, at some point in the future.

Gamble responsibly, young man Smile

by GunsGermsV2 Fri 02 Dec 2016, 2:54 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Not for a while at the moment. But yes that will happen one day.

You never know. I wouldn't be surprised if England finished 3rd. All that has to happen is you lose one game and there is a good chance they will lose to Ireland in Dublin.

Also France have vastly improved if their last game serves as an indicator and Wales are always better in the six nations than in the November series.

by No 7&1/2 Fri 02 Dec 2016, 2:57 pm

I'd be very surprised. We're inching ahead at the moment along with Ireland. Ireland have a very good chance of losing to England in Dublin as well after all.

by GunsGermsV2 Fri 02 Dec 2016, 2:58 pm

Cyril wrote:Guns has basically said that England will have a period when they're not doing as well as now, at some point in the future.

Gamble responsibly, young man

England are quite prone to thinking they are better than they actually are. It is amusing when the reality check inevitably comes.

by No 7&1/2 Fri 02 Dec 2016, 2:59 pm

Where would you rate us? Take it you don't believe we're 2nd best in the world?

by beshocked Fri 02 Dec 2016, 2:59 pm

lostinwales indeed. We thought it was the start of something great. Didn't work out like that.

Gunsgermsv2 No England still have a long way to go. 2nd in world is good but still work to be done.

I think it's great Ireland beat NZ and makes the 6 nations and Lions selection next year more interesting but doesn't mean Heaslip should have been nominated for world player of the year.

It's not just Ireland, generally a big win, whoever it's for can make people ignore their problems.

Look at Wales when they beat England in the RWC. Look at England vs NZ as LIW says. A big win can bring elation but a team must back it up.

Ireland are a good side but more work to be done.

It's funny how quickly things have changed in international rugby.

In the RWC, the SH sides dominated, England humiliated, Ireland humbled, France crushed, no NH side in the semis.

Fast forward a year later - SA humiliated,NZ humbled, Australia beaten in their backyard and losing to Ireland, Argentina being embarrassed.

Scotland and Italy are more likely to beat England in 2018 at their own grounds. Though I guess sometimes you never quite know.

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