Wales squad to go on Pacific Islands tour

First topic message reminder :

1. Wyn Jones (Scarlets)
2. Ken Owens (Scarlets) (captain)
3. Rhodri Jones (Ospreys)
4. Jake Ball (Scarlets)
5. Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys)
6. Sion Bennett (Cardiff Blues)
7. Nic Cudd (Newport Gwent Dragons)
8. Taulupe Faletau (Bath)
9. Aled Davies (Scarlets)
10. Rhys Patchell (Scarlets)
11. Steffan Evans (Scarlets)
12. Scott Williams (Scarlets)
13. Jonathan Davies (Scarlets)
14. George North (Northampton)
15. Rhys Preistland (Bath)

16. Emyr Phillips (Scarlets)
17. Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues)
18. Samson Lee (Scarlets)
19. Luke Charteris (Bath)
20. James Davies (Scarlets)
21. Gareth Davies (Scarlets)
22. Dan Jones (Scarlets)
23. Jamie Roberts (Scarlets)

The thought that Howley could get it after this 6 Nations is enough to make me gag, that he could get it after this 6 Nations AND clearly regarding Wales as of secondary importance to the Lions by not leading the tour to PI is a sad indictment of him and of the WRU. Yet another example of the WRU not placing expectations on the coaches to prioritize their jobs over personal ambition and the main reason Wales have stalled since 2013.

But the lions will win, eh Gwlad?

Cyril wrote:But the lions will win, eh Gwlad?

depends on the tight 5 and defense

NZ play high risk high reward at high tempo. But they are much more skillful at the basics, especially offload, and game management. If we can match them for fitness and have a highly mobile and skilled carrying tight 5 while at least gaining parity in the set piece, IMO they are beatable but everything will have to align and crucially we'll have to protect players from the attritive nature of the club games. Lose Sexton and we're toast.

Gwlad wrote:

Cyril wrote:But the lions will win, eh Gwlad?

depends on the tight 5 and defense

NZ play high risk high reward at high tempo. But they are much more skillful at the basics, especially offload, and game management. If we can match them for fitness and have a highly mobile and skilled carrying tight 5 while at least gaining parity in the set piece, IMO they are beatable but everything will have to align and crucially we'll have to protect players from the attritive nature of the club games. Lose Sexton and we're toast.

Gatlandball and Howley 'back play'. God Bless Wales

Cyril wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

Cyril wrote:But the lions will win, eh Gwlad?

depends on the tight 5 and defense

NZ play high risk high reward at high tempo. But they are much more skillful at the basics, especially offload, and game management. If we can match them for fitness and have a highly mobile and skilled carrying tight 5 while at least gaining parity in the set piece, IMO they are beatable but everything will have to align and crucially we'll have to protect players from the attritive nature of the club games. Lose Sexton and we're toast.

Gatlandball and Howley 'back play'. God Bless Wales

Worked 4 years ago, nearly 8 years ago were it not for English scrummaging and an Irish eejit

Just a pity there are no other quality Home Nations coaches up for the job isn't it…I mean Lancaster for example

Gwlad wrote:

Cyril wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

Cyril wrote:But the lions will win, eh Gwlad?

depends on the tight 5 and defense

NZ play high risk high reward at high tempo. But they are much more skillful at the basics, especially offload, and game management. If we can match them for fitness and have a highly mobile and skilled carrying tight 5 while at least gaining parity in the set piece, IMO they are beatable but everything will have to align and crucially we'll have to protect players from the attritive nature of the club games. Lose Sexton and we're toast.

Gatlandball and Howley 'back play'. God Bless Wales

Worked 4 years ago, nearly 8 years ago were it not for English scrummaging and an Irish eejit

Just a pity there are no other quality Home Nations coaches up for the job isn't it…I mean Lancaster for example

I think it's clear that no quality head coaches would touch the Lions with a barge pole. I think Gats has got the job for life now (or maybe Geech will have another crack at some point).

Cyril wrote:But the lions will win, eh Gwlad?

If they dont take Maj and Gwald Im sure they will all get on swimmingly

Gooseberry wrote:

Cyril wrote:But the lions will win, eh Gwlad?

If they dont take Maj and Gwald Im sure they will all get on swimmingly

I'm sure they could room together fine. Beshocked is in with 7.5 so they can continue their discussions into the night.

Cyril wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

Cyril wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

Cyril wrote:But the lions will win, eh Gwlad?

depends on the tight 5 and defense

NZ play high risk high reward at high tempo. But they are much more skillful at the basics, especially offload, and game management. If we can match them for fitness and have a highly mobile and skilled carrying tight 5 while at least gaining parity in the set piece, IMO they are beatable but everything will have to align and crucially we'll have to protect players from the attritive nature of the club games. Lose Sexton and we're toast.

Gatlandball and Howley 'back play'. God Bless Wales

Worked 4 years ago, nearly 8 years ago were it not for English scrummaging and an Irish eejit

Just a pity there are no other quality Home Nations coaches up for the job isn't it…I mean Lancaster for example

I think it's clear that no quality head coaches would touch the Lions with a barge pole. I think Gats has got the job for life now (or maybe Geech will have another crack at some point).

You're talking through your rectal area again. Why would no quality coach touch the Lions with a barge pole; the single most successful NH coach started out with them in 2009 and continued on to win in 2013. Having established that Lions provenance he is back for the next installment.

I dont think there has been comparably successful NH coach to Gatland; they've come and gone, England have had 4 coaches in the sam period and only now just found one who is comparable. Scotland have just ditched the best coach they've had in years and Ireland's coach threatens to be outstanding and then loses at crucial moments. That's the reality; no poor quality coach has touched the Lions because they simply haven't been up to the job, thinking no doubt they'd take their losing ways into Lions country. Gats bucked the trend, thats why he's so disliked because, having learned his trade in Wales, he brought success and the majority of the Home Nations haven't had a share in it. Had McGeechan been Welsh you'd all hate him too.

Gwlad wrote:

Cyril wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

Cyril wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

Cyril wrote:But the lions will win, eh Gwlad?

depends on the tight 5 and defense

NZ play high risk high reward at high tempo. But they are much more skillful at the basics, especially offload, and game management. If we can match them for fitness and have a highly mobile and skilled carrying tight 5 while at least gaining parity in the set piece, IMO they are beatable but everything will have to align and crucially we'll have to protect players from the attritive nature of the club games. Lose Sexton and we're toast.

Gatlandball and Howley 'back play'. God Bless Wales

Worked 4 years ago, nearly 8 years ago were it not for English scrummaging and an Irish eejit

Just a pity there are no other quality Home Nations coaches up for the job isn't it…I mean Lancaster for example

I think it's clear that no quality head coaches would touch the Lions with a barge pole. I think Gats has got the job for life now (or maybe Geech will have another crack at some point).

You're talking through your rectal area again. Why would no quality coach touch the Lions with a barge pole; the single most successful NH coach started out with them in 2009 and continued on to win in 2013. Having established that Lions provenance he is back for the next installment.

I dont think there has been comparably successful NH coach to Gatland; they've come and gone, England have had 4 coaches in the sam period and only now just found one who is comparable. Scotland have just ditched the best coach they've had in years and Ireland's coach threatens to be outstanding and then loses at crucial moments. That's the reality; no poor quality coach has touched the Lions because they simply haven't been up to the job, thinking no doubt they'd take their losing ways into Lions country. Gats bucked the trend, thats why he's so disliked because, having learned his trade in Wales, he brought success and the majority of the Home Nations haven't had a share in it. Had McGeechan been Welsh you'd all hate him too.

He hasnt bought that success to the SH either. What is it? 32 losses from 35 matches?

Wow!

Can certainly understand the envy

I bet you can sell ice to the Eskimos with that pitch.

Perhaps if he could draw on the unlimited resources of the 3 great sources of natural rugby talent like 'NZ' to bolster the ranks he could have had more success. But I'd rather we try and stay away from that disgusting practise which has destroyed the original concept of international rugby

Gwlad wrote:Perhaps if he could draw on the unlimited resources of the 3 great sources of natural rugby talent like 'NZ' to bolster the ranks he could have had more success. But I'd rather we try and stay away from that disgusting practise which has destroyed the original concept of international rugby

Good to see you're already lining up your excuses...good planning.

Gwlad wrote:Perhaps if he could draw on the unlimited resources of the 3 great sources of natural rugby talent like 'NZ' to bolster the ranks he could have had more success. But I'd rather we try and stay away from that disgusting practise which has destroyed the original concept of international rugby

 What disgusting practise?

Yeah what are these disgusting practices, I'm intrigued by that. Explain please Gwlad.

aucklandlaurie wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Perhaps if he could draw on the unlimited resources of the 3 great sources of natural rugby talent like 'NZ' to bolster the ranks he could have had more success. But I'd rather we try and stay away from that disgusting practise which has destroyed the original concept of international rugby

 What disgusting practise?

I think he means that awful grannygate thing that allows under 20s kiwi reps like Anscombe and guys like Maitland, Waldron, Te'o etc play because they happened to find an old birth certificate in the attic with a European sounding name on it and they go yippe...we've struck the jackpot!

Granny gate was so called as wales cheated; there was no family link. All the players you have listed have parents or grand parents from the countries they represented.

Taylorman wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Perhaps if he could draw on the unlimited resources of the 3 great sources of natural rugby talent like 'NZ' to bolster the ranks he could have had more success. But I'd rather we try and stay away from that disgusting practise which has destroyed the original concept of international rugby

 What disgusting practise?

I think he means that awful grannygate thing that allows under 20s kiwi reps like Anscombe and guys like Maitland, Waldron, Te'o etc play because they happened to find an old birth certificate in the attic with a European sounding name on it and they go yippe...we've struck the jackpot!

 Maybe he's talking about Howie and Sinkinson, how in Gods name is a Kiwi Rugby player meant to know that Essex and Lancashire arent in Wales?

They are close though..........

aucklandlaurie wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Perhaps if he could draw on the unlimited resources of the 3 great sources of natural rugby talent like 'NZ' to bolster the ranks he could have had more success. But I'd rather we try and stay away from that disgusting practise which has destroyed the original concept of international rugby

 What disgusting practise?

I think he means that awful grannygate thing that allows under 20s kiwi reps like Anscombe and guys like Maitland, Waldron, Te'o etc play because they happened to find an old birth certificate in the attic with a European sounding name on it and they go yippe...we've struck the jackpot!

 Maybe he's talking about Howie and Sinkinson, how in Gods name is a Kiwi Rugby player meant to know that Essex and Lancashire arent in Wales?

By looking up a thing called Google Earth

No 7&1/2 wrote:Granny gate was so called as wales cheated; there was no family link. All the players you have listed have parents or grand parents from the countries they represented.

In fairness lots of countries were being very dodgy in those days. Wales were the first ones that got caught out, but a few other countries did too. Scotland had a prop who played for years but he wasn't qualified. From my memory New Zealand picked a load of Samoan players right after the 1991 World Cup and made them All Blacks. Pat Lam, Frank Bunce, Stephen Bachop all played in the 1991 World Cup for Samoa, but were playing for the All Blacks in 1992, basically ignoring the rules. Bachop actually started off with Samoa, went to New Zealand, then went back to Samoa. It was common to see players switching countries when convenient.

Shifty wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Granny gate was so called as wales cheated; there was no family link. All the players you have listed have parents or grand parents from the countries they represented.

In fairness lots of countries were being very dodgy in those days.  Wales were the first ones that got caught out, but a few other countries did too.  Scotland had a prop who played for years but he wasn't qualified.  From my memory New Zealand picked a load of Samoan players right after the 1991 World Cup and made them All Blacks.  Pat Lam, Frank Bunce, Stephen Bachop all played in the 1991 World Cup for Samoa, but were playing for the All Blacks in 1992, basically ignoring the rules.  Bachop actually started off with Samoa, went to New Zealand, then went back to Samoa.  It was common to see players switching countries when convenient.  

Pre-professionalism there wasn't actually a rule on eligibility - you had the likes of Jamie Salmand (sp) play for NZ and England in the 80s etc, while Michael Jones played 1 test for Samoa in 1986 before NZ selection. Eligibility rules came in after professionalism in 1995.

In '91 Samoa picked a bunch of young guys out of NZ club rugby who went to the RWC for the craic, knowing it didn't impact their NZ selection chances - Frank Bunce has no Samoan ancestry (his parents are Nuiean*) and had never been to Samoa.

As for the Bachops (who are NZ born of Samoan, Cook Island & Tahitian descent), Stephen played for Samoa, then NZ, then Samoa, while Graeme played for NZ and then Japan, their nephews Aaron & Nathan Mauger played for NZ, and Stephen's son Jackson Garden-Bachop (who's Mum played women's rugby for NZ) played for NZ in JRWC 14, & is currently at the Melbourne Rebels


*Nuie is an island of 1300 people, though another 5000 or so Nuieans live in NZ

Well what do we think now that the Lions squad has been announced. For a start when does McDuff select his squad? and how many should be going? Is it (1)a totally development Tour? (2) A smattering of experience and development? Or (3) totally first choice in McDuffs eyes. I hope it is option (2).
My squad would be
1 Rob Evans and Nicky Smith. Not Gethin we know what he can do
2 Kristian Dacey and Sam Parry if taking 3 Elliot Dee
3 Tomas Francis and Sansom Lee
4 Luke Charteris and Jake Ball
5 Rory Thornton and Tom Price (is he Welsh?)
6 Olly Cracknell and Josh Navidi
7 Thomas Young and Ollie Griffiths (God this is very hard, Cubby Ellis Jenkins wouldn't mind either of those)
8 James King Will Boyde? struggling here.
9 I would have Jonathon Evans and the way he played on JD Lloyd Williams, but I presume McDuff will have Gareth Davies.
10 Sam Davies and Gareth Anscombe
11 IF fit Hallam Amos and Steff Evans Rhun Williams for experience
12 Scott Williams and Owen Williams
13 Tyler Morgan and Ashley Beck
14 Keelan Giles and if fit Ashton Hewitt
15 Possibly Rhun Williams and Rhys Patchell
From my own squad if at all possible and fit would like to see Adam Beard go, probably missed some and if reminded probably would change some.

2 huge games and we can't afford to let one go.

I epxect Gethin will be given the option to go, we'll need the leadership up front. Also, Lydiate if fit? And it would be the perfect opportunity to bring Hibbard back into the fold. Is Brad Davies crocked?

I'd like to see


Gethin
Hibbard
Francis
Ball
Thornton
Lydiate
Young
King
Lloyd
Amos
Davies
Scott
Beck
Giles
Patchell

LH Evans and Smith
HK Parry and Dacey
TH Lee and Francis
SR Ball, Charteris, Thornton, Hill
FL Cracknell, Young, Jenkins, Griffiths
N8 Baker, King

SH G. Davies, L. Williams, J. Evans
FH Davies, Patchell, Anscombe
CT S.Williams, O.Williams, Beck
WG Stef Evans, Amos, Giles
FB Rhun Williams