British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

First topic message reminder :

Fairly simple, champions cup aside, we have nearly all the information Garland will have to pick the Lions squad, so go ahead name your squad, your captain etc.

Cyril wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:If Sexton gets injured we are screwed.

Either Farrell moves to 10 and the whole structure changes or Biggar plays and he is too limited.
Russell should have gone.

Sexton is the most important players in the squad, alongside Furlong (Cole is deficient around the park), and he is made of glass

Cross your fingers

Ah, so Lions success rests entirely on the backs of two Irish players.

Good to know.

Well he does have a point the standard does drop a bit in those two positions behind the first choice players. They are also two key positions.

Im sure that Sexton will get injured and miss some of if not all the tests. Its guarenteed. I expect Russell to get called up.

RDW_Scotland wrote:I'm not sure where Moriarty fits in with this squad as we already have 2 genuine test contenders at 6 and 2 test contenders at 8. When you consider that Warbuton may be played at 6 and O'Brien can play 6 to a high standard then he very much looks like squad cover - and probably only at number 8.

You could certainly make an argument for not including Moriarty and Halfpenny, and simply taking a more standard squad size of 39.

RDW_Scotland wrote:I'm not sure where Moriarty fits in with this squad as we already have 2 genuine test contenders at 6 and 2 test contenders at 8. When you consider that Warbuton may be played at 6 and O'Brien can play 6 to a high standard then he very much looks like squad cover - and probably only at number 8.

Henderson and Itoje, and Lawes at a push, can also cover 6. Moriarty is a strange selection in my eyes.

Its the most gruelling Lions tour ever and there's till the Euro and league finals to go.

Players will be injured and more will be injured in training and mid week games.

People really need to stop getting their panties in a bunch and get behind the team- there will be at least 10 new call ups.

I've seen people on twitter actually saying the hope player X gets injured. Anyone doing this isn't a real Lions fans let alone a proper rugby fan.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Cyril wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:If Sexton gets injured we are screwed.

Either Farrell moves to 10 and the whole structure changes or Biggar plays and he is too limited.
Russell should have gone.

Sexton is the most important players in the squad, alongside Furlong (Cole is deficient around the park), and he is made of glass

Cross your fingers

Ah, so Lions success rests entirely on the backs of two Irish players.

Good to know.

Well he does have a point the standard does drop a bit in those two positions behind the first choice players. They are also two key positions.

Im sure that Sexton will get injured and miss some of if not all the tests. Its guarenteed. I expect Russell to get called up.

Priestland will get called up if Sexton is injured.

RDW_Scotland wrote:I'm not sure where Moriarty fits in with this squad as we already have 2 genuine test contenders at 6 (PoM and Stander) and 2 test contenders at 8 (Billy V and Faletau). When you consider that Warbuton may be played at 6 and O'Brien can play 6 to a high standard then he very much looks like squad cover - and probably only at number 8.

Some bright spark on the Twitter (definitely not me) said that his job is, essentially, to go out during the midweek games and injure potential All Black opposition players. The very worst that'll happen is he gets sent off and riles up the NZ press.

EST wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:I'm not sure where Moriarty fits in with this squad as we already have 2 genuine test contenders at 6 and 2 test contenders at 8. When you consider that Warbuton may be played at 6 and O'Brien can play 6 to a high standard then he very much looks like squad cover - and probably only at number 8.

Henderson and Itoje, and Lawes at a push, can also cover 6.  Moriarty is a strange selection in my eyes.

Itojie isn't a 6. His breakdown technique will be pinged off the park in NZ.

IanBru wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:I'm not sure where Moriarty fits in with this squad as we already have 2 genuine test contenders at 6 (PoM and Stander) and 2 test contenders at 8 (Billy V and Faletau). When you consider that Warbuton may be played at 6 and O'Brien can play 6 to a high standard then he very much looks like squad cover - and probably only at number 8.

Some bright spark on the Twitter (definitely not me) said that his job is, essentially, to go out during the midweek games and injure potential All Black opposition players. The very worst that'll happen is he gets sent off and riles up the NZ press.

Can he shout 'this one's for BOD!' when he does it? It'll make great theatre.

IanBru wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:I'm not sure where Moriarty fits in with this squad as we already have 2 genuine test contenders at 6 (PoM and Stander) and 2 test contenders at 8 (Billy V and Faletau). When you consider that Warbuton may be played at 6 and O'Brien can play 6 to a high standard then he very much looks like squad cover - and probably only at number 8.

Some bright spark on the Twitter (definitely not me) said that his job is, essentially, to go out during the midweek games and injure potential All Black opposition players. The very worst that'll happen is he gets sent off and riles up the NZ press.

In which case surely Ryan Wilson would have been a better fit?? Actually, why wasn't Ryan Wilson picked.....

RDW_Scotland wrote:I'm not sure where Moriarty fits in with this squad as we already have 2 genuine test contenders at 6 and 2 test contenders at 8. When you consider that Warbuton may be played at 6 and O'Brien can play 6 to a high standard then he very much looks like squad cover - and probably only at number 8.

Getting away from the clearly honking biased selection, I do actually have a question about the make up of the squad. I think we were all quite surprised that he has taken 41 players. The test schedule demands it.

However in taking 41 guys I'm kind of surprised he has went for more "versatile" options and less specialists. Let me explain...

I think we were all in the same mindset that he probably wouldn't have taken both Lawes and Launchberry. It was always going to be one or the other. So for me he has taken Lawes because he can play at 6. There is a significant chance he selected Henderson over J Gray for the same reason. Henderson and Lawes were selected because they can play Lock and Blindside Flanker. However with 41 players in the squad, can the case be made that either are better Locks than Gray and Launchberry?

This anomoly is repeated in the backs, we seem to have 5 people who can play full back. Halfpenny, Hogg, Williams, Payne and Daly. I would have thought bringing another pure 13 (Ringrose) would be more sensible.

Again we have SOB, Moriarty, going over Robshaw and Watson who IMO would be better as a pure 6 and pure 7 but be unable to cover number 8.

I dunno it just seems weird that he has picked versatile players instead of picking specialists and it's even stranger when you consider the size of the squad.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

IanBru wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:I'm not sure where Moriarty fits in with this squad as we already have 2 genuine test contenders at 6 (PoM and Stander) and 2 test contenders at 8 (Billy V and Faletau). When you consider that Warbuton may be played at 6 and O'Brien can play 6 to a high standard then he very much looks like squad cover - and probably only at number 8.

Some bright spark on the Twitter (definitely not me) said that his job is, essentially, to go out during the midweek games and injure potential All Black opposition players. The very worst that'll happen is he gets sent off and riles up the NZ press.

In which case surely Ryan Wilson would have been a better fit?? Actually, why wasn't Ryan Wilson picked.....

The bulb had blown on Gatland's Bat-Signal.

On my way out to Maplins now.

munkian wrote:Its the most gruelling Lions tour ever and there's till the Euro and league finals to go.

Players will be injured and more will be injured in training and mid week games.

People really need to stop getting their panties in a bunch and get behind the team- there will be at least 10 new call ups.

I've seen people on twitter actually saying the hope player X gets injured. Anyone doing this isn't a real Lions fans let alone a proper rugby fan.

Haha easy for you to say when half the squad and management is Welsh.

I think even the most ardent Wales fans must accept they are quite fortunate to have the second most representatives on this tour on the back of a unsuccessful tour to NZ, a very poor November and a poor albeit reasonably competitive six nations. It really does smack of the Woodward selection policy in '05.

All that aside you are right and I will be supporting the Lions 100%.

geoff999rugby wrote:
Its not rocket science

Thank goodness for that or I'd be on here chatting to myself

IanBru wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

IanBru wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:I'm not sure where Moriarty fits in with this squad as we already have 2 genuine test contenders at 6 (PoM and Stander) and 2 test contenders at 8 (Billy V and Faletau). When you consider that Warbuton may be played at 6 and O'Brien can play 6 to a high standard then he very much looks like squad cover - and probably only at number 8.

Some bright spark on the Twitter (definitely not me) said that his job is, essentially, to go out during the midweek games and injure potential All Black opposition players. The very worst that'll happen is he gets sent off and riles up the NZ press.

In which case surely Ryan Wilson would have been a better fit?? Actually, why wasn't Ryan Wilson picked.....

The bulb had blown on Gatland's Bat-Signal.

On my way out to Maplins now.

(I'm sure the non-Scots on here will be confused by this)

Cyril wrote:

IanBru wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:I'm not sure where Moriarty fits in with this squad as we already have 2 genuine test contenders at 6 (PoM and Stander) and 2 test contenders at 8 (Billy V and Faletau). When you consider that Warbuton may be played at 6 and O'Brien can play 6 to a high standard then he very much looks like squad cover - and probably only at number 8.

Some bright spark on the Twitter (definitely not me) said that his job is, essentially, to go out during the midweek games and injure potential All Black opposition players. The very worst that'll happen is he gets sent off and riles up the NZ press.

Can he shout 'this one's for BOD!' when he does it? It'll make great theatre.

Ha that would be great. All they have to do then is work out a way to piss the ABs off while before they do the Haka like put a leaf on the ground, or sacrifice a little kiwi bird on the pitch before they do it.

robbo277 wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Reading todays regular internet stop offs for rugby chat even the journalists and pundits are defending Gatland's nepotism...  

"With Biggar, he's probably gone with the most competitive person on that tour and he knows what he will get out of him."

"Gatland, who has coached Wales to two Grand Slams, chose players he was familiar with."

"Jon Davies has gone on his experience, hes a winning Lion and has played well in test matches" (hasn't beaten NZ like oh I don't know, Ringrose?)

"If you're purely going on what's just happened in the Six Nations, I think quite a few of the Welsh players have maybe been picked on what they've done for Warren Gatland in the past and on previous Lions tours"

"The fact there wasn't a Scottish voice in that management team to back the corner of any of the Scottish players - I'm sure that led to it as well."

"there is no doubt about it, the fact that there is such a Welsh influence within that management team has got a few of those over the line."

With the nepotism angle, I think we have to be clear what we mean.

E.g. when discussing Tipuric over Watson, I doubt they listed their pro's and con's on a sheet and then put "Welsh" in Tipuric's column, underlined it and moved on to the next discussion.

But when they're discussing the less tangible things than on-pitch impact, like who will contribute to driving standards up during training and who can be a disruptive influence, whereas Gatland and Howley can vouch for Tipuric and his character and attitude on the previous Lions tour and previous Wales tours, there's no-one saying that Watson is a good guy, gets his head down, encourages others etc.

He might do and be all those things, but when you're looking at forging a group of players together in such a short time, character becomes important and there was no-one in a position to vouch for the Scottish players.

Do you go with a good player who you know isn't going to contribute to every facet of the tour, or do you go with a marginally better player who is a complete unknown quantity?

If this is really an issue, you should be lobbying for an autonomous neutral coach with the head coach from each home nation sitting in on pre-tour selection meetings.

Isn't the tour manager Scottish? He announced the team.

I wonder which English player will be the first to disgrace himself on this tour? My guess is Joe Marler. Not sure why, just a hunch.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:I wonder which English player will be the first to disgrace himself on this tour? My guess is Joe Marler. Not sure why, just a hunch.

I just hope nobody is caught smoking in their room like POC.

Sexton looks like a secret smoker. It's the pinched face and the squinty eyes.

I find it amusing that Gatland says that Conor Murray won't travel if he doesn't play 'once or twice' before the tour, yet Warburton travels injured with no such warning.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:All that aside you are right and I will be supporting the Lions 100%.

Hmmm.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:I wonder which English player will be the first to disgrace himself on this tour? My guess is Joe Marler. Not sure why, just a hunch.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

munkian wrote:Its the most gruelling Lions tour ever and there's till the Euro and league finals to go.

Players will be injured and more will be injured in training and mid week games.

People really need to stop getting their panties in a bunch and get behind the team- there will be at least 10 new call ups.

I've seen people on twitter actually saying the hope player X gets injured. Anyone doing this isn't a real Lions fans let alone a proper rugby fan.

Haha easy for you to say when half the squad and management is Welsh.

I think even the most ardent Wales fans must accept they are quite fortunate to have the second most representatives on this tour on the back of a unsuccessful tour to NZ, a very poor November and a poor albeit reasonably competitive six nations. It really does smack of the Woodward selection policy in '05.

All that aside you are right and I will be supporting the Lions 100%.

You actually think we have any love for the Welsh management ?

The main difference between the Lions nation's Six Nations teams is the coaches, not the players.

Sin é wrote:I find it amusing that Gatland says that Conor Murray won't travel if he doesn't play 'once or twice' before the tour, yet Warburton travels injured with no such warning.

And AWJ

Cyril wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:I wonder which English player will be the first to disgrace himself on this tour? My guess is Joe Marler. Not sure why, just a hunch.

I just hope nobody is caught smoking in their room like POC.

Sexton looks like a secret smoker. It's the pinched face and the squinty eyes.

Must reread the part in POC's book about the last tour. Rather amusing how Gatland protected his Welsh players and threw the rest to the Lions ( )

Plus AWJ has been bang average in a strong position for the Lions.

Cyril wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:I wonder which English player will be the first to disgrace himself on this tour? My guess is Joe Marler. Not sure why, just a hunch.

I just hope nobody is caught smoking in their room like POC.

Sexton looks like a secret smoker. It's the pinched face and the squinty eyes.

Haha was POC caught smoking? What a deviant.

EST wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:I'm not sure where Moriarty fits in with this squad as we already have 2 genuine test contenders at 6 and 2 test contenders at 8. When you consider that Warbuton may be played at 6 and O'Brien can play 6 to a high standard then he very much looks like squad cover - and probably only at number 8.

Henderson and Itoje, and Lawes at a push, can also cover 6.  Moriarty is a strange selection in my eyes.

Interesting breakdown with backrow options.

2nd in the world - 1
4th in the world - 3
5th in the world - 0
8th in the world - 4

5th in the world only has 2 players in a squad of 41....

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Cyril wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:I wonder which English player will be the first to disgrace himself on this tour? My guess is Joe Marler. Not sure why, just a hunch.

I just hope nobody is caught smoking in their room like POC.

Sexton looks like a secret smoker. It's the pinched face and the squinty eyes.

Haha was POC caught smoking? What a deviant.

He wasn't caught smoking - he took up smoking he was so bored.

beshocked wrote:5th in the world only has 2 players in a squad of 41....

Sssh! Don't get the Gat out of the bag!

Sin é wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Cyril wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:I wonder which English player will be the first to disgrace himself on this tour? My guess is Joe Marler. Not sure why, just a hunch.

I just hope nobody is caught smoking in their room like POC.

Sexton looks like a secret smoker. It's the pinched face and the squinty eyes.

Haha was POC caught smoking? What a deviant.

He wasn't caught smoking - he took up smoking he was so bored.

Not the greatest tourist. If he was bored he should have just logged on a rugby forum and talked shoite.

beshocked wrote:

EST wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:I'm not sure where Moriarty fits in with this squad as we already have 2 genuine test contenders at 6 and 2 test contenders at 8. When you consider that Warbuton may be played at 6 and O'Brien can play 6 to a high standard then he very much looks like squad cover - and probably only at number 8.

Henderson and Itoje, and Lawes at a push, can also cover 6.  Moriarty is a strange selection in my eyes.

Interesting breakdown with backrow options.

2nd in the world - 1
4th in the world - 3
5th in the world - 0
8th in the world - 4

5th in the world only has 2 players in a squad of 41....

To be fair, a very compelling case could be made for Watson. A less compelling case for Barclay who is a hell of a player but I wouldn't pick him over the likes of Robshaw, Stander or POM who are his direct competition.

A case could have been made for an uninjured Strauss or Hardie, but the only uninjured Scottish backrow worthy of a place is Watson and it is my firm belief he has been robbed.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

beshocked wrote:

EST wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:I'm not sure where Moriarty fits in with this squad as we already have 2 genuine test contenders at 6 and 2 test contenders at 8. When you consider that Warbuton may be played at 6 and O'Brien can play 6 to a high standard then he very much looks like squad cover - and probably only at number 8.

Henderson and Itoje, and Lawes at a push, can also cover 6.  Moriarty is a strange selection in my eyes.

Interesting breakdown with backrow options.

2nd in the world - 1
4th in the world - 3
5th in the world - 0
8th in the world - 4

5th in the world only has 2 players in a squad of 41....

To be fair, a very compelling case could be made for Watson. A less compelling case for Barclay who is a hell of a player but I wouldn't pick him over the likes of Robshaw, Stander or POM who are his direct competition.

A case could have been made for an uninjured Strauss or Hardie, but the only uninjured Scottish backrow worthy of a place is Watson and it is my firm belief he has been robbed.

I think it's more that Wales have such a high representation in the backrow in particular.

Moriarty shouldn't have been picked. You can make a case for the other players though picked in the backrow.

So really it should be either

2
3
0
3


Or

1
3
1
3

LondonTiger wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:All that aside you are right and I will be supporting the Lions 100%.

Hmmm.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:I wonder which English player will be the first to disgrace himself on this tour? My guess is Joe Marler. Not sure why, just a hunch.

Ah stop it was a joke. I think we can all agree that the English players tend to be the most feral when on holidays and thats definitely saying something in a group that includes 12 Welsh guys.

beshocked wrote:[

2nd in the world - 1
4th in the world - 3
5th in the world - 0
8th in the world - 4

5th in the world only has 2 players in a squad of 41....

Yep - must be something wrong with the rankings

offload wrote:

beshocked wrote:[

2nd in the world - 1
4th in the world - 3
5th in the world - 0
8th in the world - 4

5th in the world only has 2 players in a squad of 41....

Yep - must be something wrong with the rankings

Well not really when 5th in the world managed to beat 4th and 8th in their last matches...

Sin é wrote:

robbo277 wrote:Some stuff

Isn't the tour manager Scottish? He announced the team.

I thought tour manager was just logistics and that? I didn't think he does more than read the selection.

robbo277 wrote:

Sin é wrote:

robbo277 wrote:Some stuff

Isn't the tour manager Scottish? He announced the team.

I thought tour manager was just logistics and that? I didn't think he does more than read the selection.

Sponsors first, and he managed to get Standard Life on the team.

beshocked wrote:

offload wrote:

beshocked wrote:[

2nd in the world - 1
4th in the world - 3
5th in the world - 0
8th in the world - 4

5th in the world only has 2 players in a squad of 41....

Yep - must be something wrong with the rankings

Well not really when 5th in the world managed to beat 4th and 8th in their last matches...

Well if it's not the ranking that wrong......it must be the selection of the Lions squad that's wrong? Surely not. Are you saying that someone doesn't agree with someone else opinion?

SecretFly wrote:

Griff wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:Couple of points from Warren Gatland interview on radio New Zealand this morning:

This team has four or five of the best goal kickers in the World.

Farrell is selected as a first five eighth, not a second five.

Teo is picked as a second five eight not a centre.

keen to coach Jared Payne again.

Second five eight is centre isn't it?!

No.  That's the third three fifth.

Half the time.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

beshocked wrote:

EST wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:I'm not sure where Moriarty fits in with this squad as we already have 2 genuine test contenders at 6 and 2 test contenders at 8. When you consider that Warbuton may be played at 6 and O'Brien can play 6 to a high standard then he very much looks like squad cover - and probably only at number 8.

Henderson and Itoje, and Lawes at a push, can also cover 6.  Moriarty is a strange selection in my eyes.

Interesting breakdown with backrow options.

2nd in the world - 1
4th in the world - 3
5th in the world - 0
8th in the world - 4

5th in the world only has 2 players in a squad of 41....

To be fair, a very compelling case could be made for Watson. A less compelling case for Barclay who is a hell of a player but I wouldn't pick him over the likes of Robshaw, Stander or POM who are his direct competition.

A case could have been made for an uninjured Strauss or Hardie, but the only uninjured Scottish backrow worthy of a place is Watson and it is my firm belief he has been robbed.

Listening to Rowntree on the Beeb last night, he was describing the type of character he wanted - mentally tough, belligerent etc. He was essentially describing Watson, who I think would have been a first rate tourist. He plays in a totally shoite Edinburgh team, yet is pretty much the only player who fights for every blade of grass - you can see it in the way he plays. He charges into contact, against players who are much bigger, and consistently makes ground. His was the best jackal against Wales, in a team with Warburton and Tips. He has become the starting Scotland 7, deservedly ahead of Hardie.

I wonder, if on Gatts sabatical, did he visit any Edinburgh training sessions to find out what sort of guy he is? Did he call up Duncan Hodge I wonder? Did he call up Cotter to enquire about Watson? I know he visited the Scotland camp, but I would be really interested to know if he actually tried to get a thorough understanding of the Scotland players. Or you know, do his job.

EST wrote:Listening to Rowntree on the Beeb last night, he was describing the type of character he wanted - mentally tough, belligerent etc.  He was essentially describing Watson,

Hartley?

One of the key moments was the face on Gatland when Scotland beat Wales - you knew he was not impartial at all and was just waiting for a reason to de-select for his own favs

Not as bad as 2005, but about 50% of the way there

EST wrote:I wonder, if on Gatts sabatical, did he visit any Edinburgh training sessions to find out what sort of guy he is?  Did he call up Duncan Hodge I wonder?  Did he call up Cotter to enquire about Watson?  I know he visited the Scotland camp, but I would be really interested to know if he actually tried to get a thorough understanding of the Scotland players.  Or you know, do his job.

Apparently he did. Hodge recommended Chris Dean.

I would say they is a good chance Hartley will be called up. In the last two tours a hooker was called up and in '05 4 hookers were taken on tour. In '01 there was also a hooker called up.

R!skysports wrote:One of the key moments was the face on Gatland when Scotland beat Wales - you knew he was not impartial at all and was just waiting for a reason to de-select for his own favs

Not as bad as 2005, but about 50% of the way there

Do you actually watch rugby or just look for injustices against Scotland ?

funnyExiledScot wrote:

EST wrote:I wonder, if on Gatts sabatical, did he visit any Edinburgh training sessions to find out what sort of guy he is?  Did he call up Duncan Hodge I wonder?  Did he call up Cotter to enquire about Watson?  I know he visited the Scotland camp, but I would be really interested to know if he actually tried to get a thorough understanding of the Scotland players.  Or you know, do his job.

Apparently he did. Hodge recommended Chris Dean.

I heard RDW suggested him as Lions captain material.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:I would say they is a good chance Hartley will be called up. In the last two tours a hooker was called up and in '05 4 hookers were taken on tour. In '01 there was also a hooker called up.

Eddie Jones might not, he's only named Hartley and Cowan-Dickie in his squad for the Argentina series.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:I would say they is a good chance Hartley will be called up. In the last two tours a hooker was called up and in '05 4 hookers were taken on tour. In '01 there was also a hooker called up.

Agreed, although I wonder if he'll agree to it. He's been named captain of the England tour to Argentina. Having been snubbed he may well choose his England commitments. I suppose it'll depend on when the call-up comes.

If not Hartley, who else would Gatland call up? I suppose it's a contest between Baldwin, Cronin, Brown and Ford.

I think Brown would be a great choice but given what has happened I'm sure the England game will be a huge black mark against him by Gatland.  This would be a real shame as he was excellent in the AIs and the other 6N games (especially v Ireland) and has had a great season for Glasgow with standout performances in 2 Racing wins and win away to Leicester. He's certainly had a better season than Baldwin, Cronin and Ford IMO.

RDW_Scotland wrote:I think Brown would be a great choice but given what has happened I'm sure the England game will be a huge black mark against him by Gatland.  This would be a real shame as he was excellent in the AIs and the other 6N games and has had a great season for Glasgow without standout performances in 2 Racing wins and win away to Leicester.

I'd go with Brown as well. His breakdown work is excellent. I do like Cronin though as an impact sub.

I think Cronin is the obvious choice. He does everything well and has serious pace and skill for a hooker. I also think he is better than George who is desperately over hyped.